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The monoclonals may help but good lord are they inefficient. For the cost of a single Regeneron treatment you could buy over 100 doses of the vaccines.
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Dec 12, 2021 00:11
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vaccines, we don't know what's in them, they were approved too fast, we don't know the long term effects even newer monoclonal antibodies, hell yes, inject me with those emergency authorized proteins, there's no evidence to suggest long term effects
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Dec 12, 2021 00:24
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Not sure I agree. Denying people organ transplants isn't about managing a scarce resource generally, it's more about whether the impact of surgery, immunosuppressants, etc. are going to result in a net benefit. For people who don't do things that damage the new organ (like drinking for livers) and are compliant with medication a transplant almost always is the ideal option, but if someone is going to burn out a new liver or kidney rapidly the downsides start to outweigh the benefits. Transplant seems like it just magically cures you, but in reality you're trading a chronic disease that will almost certainly kill you eventually to a chronic disease that you'll have for 20 years (at best) before you go back to your original chronic disease. People will be denied living donor transplants for similar reasons, where there's no scarcity argument (the living donor in nearly all cases is going to donate to that recipient and that recipient alone). I'm pretty sure that most hospitals will put the same non-drinking requirements on living donor recipients, and you're dealing with the same panel who's going to approve or deny you (for either getting on the list or the transplant itself) I think in any situation short of emergency triage doctor's don't ration resources due to scarcity - whoever would benefit the most always gets treatment. enki42 fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 00:27
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Oddly enough the liver debate isnt really a thing in the UK. Very famous footballer George Best drank his liver into oblivion, then somehow had a liver transplant at a private hospital but on the NHS' dime. He continued to drink to the point where he got banned for drunk driving before dying at 59 because the immunosuppressants reacted with all the alcohol and it killed him. He just became this poster child for the argument that a nationalised health service giving alcoholics priority over non-alcoholics is bad, which has also led to a number of other internal policies within the NHS over the treatment of smokers for non-cancerous conditions - for example if you have emphysema and refuse to try to give up smoking then you ain't getting hospital specialist treatment for years if ever. It's also started leaking out to conditions your doctor deems to have been caused by over eating or bad diet. You gots to go on educational courses if you want to go beyond GP treatment because the current feeling is that if they can educate the hospital waiting list down then that's a better approach.
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Dec 12, 2021 01:25
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My aunt's hospital in Wellington, FL is no longer separating COVID patients into a separate ward. They are just among other patients and following protocols you would follow for people with staph infections. Apparently nurses are quitting in droves and social workers (her department) are refusing to see patients in person. I wonder how long it will last.
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Dec 12, 2021 02:28
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Garfu posted:My aunt's hospital in Wellington, FL is no longer separating COVID patients into a separate ward. They are just among other patients and following protocols you would follow for people with staph infections. Apparently nurses are quitting in droves and social workers (her department) are refusing to see patients in person. 
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Dec 12, 2021 03:12
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Garfu posted:My aunt's hospital in Wellington, FL is no longer separating COVID patients into a separate ward. They are just among other patients and following protocols you would follow for people with staph infections. Apparently nurses are quitting in droves and social workers (her department) are refusing to see patients in person. I wonder how long it will last. Depending on the air circulation system keeping them in separate rooms may have been mostly theater anyway. I would hope hospitals would be using HEPA filters, but I wouldn't count on it. Cold doesn't hurt covid, so the HVAC could have been blowing it into every room regardless.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:17
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Facebook Aunt posted:Cold doesn't hurt covid, so the HVAC could have been blowing it into every room regardless. lol?
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Dec 12, 2021 03:29
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It's a good thing we've had 1.75 years to fix problems like that
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Dec 12, 2021 03:42
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:It's a good thing we've had 1.75 years to fix problems like that Well it is Florida...
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Dec 12, 2021 03:47
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Florida isn’t even that bad as far as vax rates although I suspect that is because of the generally older population. #21 out of 50.
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Dec 12, 2021 04:34
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And you have Miami Dade which is a big percentage of the population and has like 90% single+ vac’d, if the numbers are right. E: 95 now, apparently. Double about to hit 80.
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Dec 12, 2021 04:39
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Unfortunately it's looking like triple is really what you want vs. Omicron. I mean, that was already true for Delta, but it seems to be especially true now.
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Dec 12, 2021 05:52
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Just posting an article I ran into. I only read the summary since I'm lazy. COVID Booster Cuts Death Rate by 90%, Israeli Study Finds quote:An Israeli study tracked more than 843,000 people who received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine — and then explored whether the results improved for the 758,000 who then also got a booster shot. Omicron new friend, Delta still here but sad. I found the bolded part interesting. edit: I read some more. quote:"If anyone were at all skeptical of the need for boosting in any age group, I think these two studies together would go a long way to eliminating that skepticism and reinforcing the program that we have here in the United States to get everyone age 18 and older who's eligible for a booster to get them that booster vaccine," Schaffner said. Seems like Delta is still the one to be more worried about. At this point in time that is. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 06:12
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First Omicron hospitalisation in NSW.
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Dec 12, 2021 06:30
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Here's a decent summary of what we know so far: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1469429343000547329 Omicron does seem to be handily outcompeting Delta, which isn't awesome. Being triple-vaxxed is a very very very good idea if you aren't already. Talk about mild cases keeps coming up; it will take more time to really have a good picture here because hospitalizations and deaths are lagging indicators, plus prior immunity from other infections might explain this. No idea about long covid (which, Dr. Topol laments, is a major concern that is consistently ignored).
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Dec 12, 2021 06:51
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My triple vaxxed best friend tested positive for covid today, after visiting family that knew about a positive test but hid their symptoms and test result and begged my friend to bring their children over. The kid they brought with them thankfully tested negative. The family member that hid symptoms was hospitalized 2 days after the visit, which they also hid from my friend until my friend got positive test results and asked if their parents could watch their kids. Stay safe y'all
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 07:52
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deep dish peat moss posted:My triple vaxxed best friend tested positive for covid today, after visiting family that knew about a positive test but hid their symptoms and test result and begged my friend to bring their children over. The kid they brought with them thankfully tested negative. The family member that hid symptoms was hospitalized 2 days after the visit, which they also hid from my friend until my friend got positive test results and asked if their parents could watch their kids. Stay safe y'all I've heard so many similar stories, especially boomer parents who lie about being vaxxed and isolating at home so they can visit family. It's loving insane.
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Dec 12, 2021 07:57
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The most upsetting thing about the pandemic has been realizing that I can't trust over 50% of the population with my life and it's hard to even know which ones those are. At least the anti-vaxx people are vocal enough to avoid. But like - dating? How am I supposed to trust that a random stranger isn't putting my life on the line to get their jimmies off, ya know?
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Dec 12, 2021 08:06
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deep dish peat moss posted:The most upsetting thing about the pandemic has been realizing that I can't trust over 50% of the population with my life and it's hard to even know which ones those are. At least the anti-vaxx people are vocal enough to avoid. But like - dating? How am I supposed to trust that a random stranger isn't putting my life on the line to get their jimmies off, ya know? Use a glory hole to avoid face to face contact that might give you covid per those recommendations.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:00
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Wait, are you confused, or am I? Zeroes are tricky buggers, of course the one number I didn't bother to double-check on a calculator/spreadsheet would be completely wrong.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:02
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dwarf74 posted:Monoclonal antibodies are part of the Joe Rogan plan. They're actual medicine - the only actual medically useful part of that plan, afaict - which is why antivaxers swear by it. Dana White getting covid brought it to light that people are now calling it the JRE Protocol: monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, saunas, vitamins, and a few other non-helpful practices. For JRE listeners and those deeply in the bro science gym chud crowd it seems to be the latest default answer to replace any idea of wearing masks or getting vaccinated. Why would you need to think about precautions when you can just go follow the JRE Protocol if you get sick from the gym or Crossfit box? To them, we're all a bunch of idiots for worrying about it when the answer is right there, proven by Joe Rogan. Not that they ever needed any more evidence to prove to them that covid is officially over and/or not a big deal, but Joe Rogan's mild illness and treatment definitely helped a lot of people cross a mental and social Rubicon that they back by Rogan's success in not getting severe illness or having to stop his life for more than a few days. If that millionaire can pull through, anyone can. Though Trump also pulled it off in 2020, in the Goldfish-memory hole of information, Rogan is the latest example of a right-wing grifter celebrity beating covid through monoclonal antibodies, except he hold tremendous sway over his followers when it comes to medical and health advice than many of us realize while being a lot more personally relatable than Trump, IMO. On a similar rant that has bugged me for a while now, I think the pandemic closing gyms really brought out what can be called "gym chuds," and highlighted how strongly selfish right-wing "don't tread on me" think permeates the fitness and fighting industries. I mean, it was never hidden in the past but it also became a hill to die on against local, global, and social covid actions. Some people lost their minds when their gyms closed and I believe it led to them using it in their anti-covid response the same way single-issue voters do when they chose political parties. It pairs with that "I trust my immune system" crowd, because they believe that because gyms are where people get exercise and muscle, leading to a better immune system, limiting the gym or closing it is an attack on their body's autonomy and ability to fight off the virus, etc. Wearing a mask in the gym, however useless it is in such an environment, is also an attack on their bodies and gains. It also doesn't help that every social media fitness grifter is trying to sell supplements and promote some form of pseudoscience, backed by a predatory billion-dollar sales industry with its own enclosed media loops of fitness gurus giving medical and lifestyle advice. For being as "science based" as they claim when it comes to health and physical practices and routines, many promotors very quickly jumped on the anti-vax and "wait and see" arguments, besides the anti-everything-else-covid related they took from being told "no" when it came to gyms during the start of the pandemic. They really wanted to convince their audience that their supplements, exercise, and woowoo practices will be enough to stave off a novel virus, much like Rogan and Alex Jones do on their platforms. I saw early on in the pandemic that some people I knew quickly moved into the anti-mask and/or anti-covid crowd over the gym and fitness issues because they couldn't handle not being able to workout for a while. Even when gyms opened up again, it's easy to see on social media that masks are not worn or are improperly worn, regardless of how useless they may be when you have dozens of people huffing and puffing in an enclosed space (not that they are even wearing the type of mask that would help them before it gets saturated in sweat anyway). If the date wasn't listed on this video, you'd never guess this was in October 2021 during a continuous pandemic. There's so much irony in trying to promote health and wellness while actively ignoring a very real threat that can shred their lungs and possibly keep them from ever working out again. It's one thing when they are trying to sell you something, but many of their consumers feel and act the same way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWtqcSG0TdI I live near a Crossfit box with big windows and everyone is chin diapering next to each other with no visible outside ventilation or open doors/windows. Going to a gym during a pandemic is dumb as hell, yet there are even dumber ways such as a super anti-vax chud in-law I have that runs an MMA gym and has his face literally inches away from other anti-vax idiots on a daily basis. When the gyms closed he turned his garage into a wresting ring and started inviting his students there instead. He's a fanatical Rogan fan and I am sure he's now counting on the JRE Protocol to save him if and when he gets covid.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:04
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The weird thing is I don't see nearly as much of that bullshit from swimmers. I mean swimmers are often obsessed, can't usually buy an old rusty pool on craigslist and throw it in their basement, and legitimately physically can't wear masks while working out. I'm not super deep into that crew, so I'm sure there's some insanity I'm missing, but it doesn't seem to exist on the level of crossfit/lifting/MMA/etc.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:10
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i like nice words
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PITY BONER posted:He's a fanatical Rogan fan and I am sure he's now counting on the JRE Protocol to save him if and when he gets covid. Well the 'good' news is that the only part of JRE that does anything (the mabs) doesn't do anything against omicron, so that grift is going to hopefully collapse sooner rather than later.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:14
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HazCat posted:Well the 'good' news is that the only part of JRE that does anything (the mabs) doesn't do anything against omicron, so that grift is going to hopefully collapse sooner rather than later. A quick skim and I'm seeing concerns about reduced effectiveness, as well as some new ones being floated, so "doesn't do anything against omicron" seems like hyperbole.
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Dec 12, 2021 09:26
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CaptainSarcastic posted:A quick skim and I'm seeing concerns about reduced effectiveness, as well as some new ones being floated, so "doesn't do anything against omicron" seems like hyperbole. https://twitter.com/alhkim/status/1469449766002176005 'Reduced' is putting it pretty mildly.
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Dec 12, 2021 10:09
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Zugzwang posted:Here's a decent summary of what we know so far: The "mildness" of the disease is being used to suppress panic but it's too early to know how frequently people will experience long covid from this new variant. It's a reminder to not let "mild" fool you into complacency
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Dec 12, 2021 10:18
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Getting my booster tomorrow Wish me luck thread
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Dec 12, 2021 10:24
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I hope your genitals don't become engorged and enflamed by the nanobots
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Dec 12, 2021 10:25
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QuarkJets posted:I hope your genitals don't become engorged and enflamed by the nanobots That makes one of us
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Dec 12, 2021 10:27
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HazCat posted:https://twitter.com/alhkim/status/1469449766002176005 My content solitude continues, it's not even an ironic comment.  edit: AZ 1 & 2, 3rd jab was Pfizer.
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Dec 12, 2021 10:30
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QuarkJets posted:The "mildness" of the disease is being used to suppress panic but it's too early to know how frequently people will experience long covid from this new variant. It's a reminder to not let "mild" fool you into complacency Please, I wish this thread would stop with this "long covid" stuff, it's a term as bad and vague as "Autism". We now know that most cases of "long covid" are the long term effects of having bad cases of covid which has caused irreversible damage to lungs and heart, very very very few people get covid and have it for months unless they are chronically ill. A milder version of covid is going to result in a massive drop in "long covid" cases. The actual threat is that it's incredibly transmissible, which will cause death rates amongst the elderly to spike no matter how mild it is. UK winter season. Flu = 20k deaths a year Predicted deaths, majority old, from omicron = 41k
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Dec 12, 2021 10:33
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QuarkJets posted:The "mildness" of the disease is being used to suppress panic but it's too early to know how frequently people will experience long covid from this new variant. It's a reminder to not let "mild" fool you into complacency Apparently Omicron does not typically kill your senses of smell or taste. I wonder if that has any correlation to long COVID.
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Dec 12, 2021 10:34
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Fuschia tude posted:Apparently Omicron does not typically kill your senses of smell or taste. I wonder if that has any correlation to long COVID. That South African doctor was quoted as saying her patients mostly had very rapid heart rates and shortness of breath so the doomer outlook would be that there's simply going to be new and exciting forms of long covid to look forward too. HazCat posted:Well the 'good' news is that the only part of JRE that does anything (the mabs) doesn't do anything against omicron, so that grift is going to hopefully collapse sooner rather than later. Is that a big deal? I'm sure they can just make some omicron specific ones and mix them in with the delta mabs.
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Dec 12, 2021 11:07
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Platystemon posted:That’s less defensible than giving liver transplant priority to alcoholics. So uh, thing with this for.liver transplants. You have to be off liquor for at least a year to even attempt to get on the list for a liver transplant. And many times it can be even longer of they see a ton of short sober periods and long periods of drinking. Priority always goes to patients with liver failure from non self induced sources, mainly because of how likely it is the patient will just immediately start drinking again and waste the liver. Alot of transplants they absolutely require the patient to show compliance towards doctor's orders and medication regimes in order to be able to get on the list and stay on, partly because of the sheer number of people but because after transplant the patient will be on a multitude of medications that need to be followed in order to prevent graft vs host. Shits absolutely nuts and there's so much that goes into it, you start scratching the surface and it's a canyon that is more and more interesting. Sidenote this is exactly why to be on the list they require all vaccinations to be obtained and up to date. And is why antivaxxers are being removed or rejected. Part of this is because the immunosuppressant drugs make it harder to build antibodies properly, so a patient with a transplant that gets a covid shot may not be fully protected or protected at all (seriously it's horrid when they get all the shots but die because the vaccine wasn't effective due to the meds) and if they get infected they always will be higher risk patients due to the immunosuppressant. But if you can't stay current or refuse to get vaccinated, the docs look at it as noncompliance and likely to continue with the new medications or requirements of a transplant, and the risk of the organ being rejected and wasted is to high, they give no poo poo and will refuse a patient an organ out right for it. This all ties into covid vaccines I swear but we had a family that was adamant their dad would get a liver transplant and walk out. He was mustard yellow from liver failure and had a 3 month window to live, kept drinking until he was basically dead and the finally still was saying he'd get a transplant.
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Dec 12, 2021 13:37
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learnincurve posted:We now know that most cases of "long covid" are the long term effects of having bad cases of covid which has caused irreversible damage to lungs and heart, very very very few people get covid and have it for months unless they are chronically ill. A milder version of covid is going to result in a massive drop in "long covid" cases. There is plenty of evidence that long COVID is still a significant concern for mild cases. I think this might be taking the fair point that we should be prioritizing deaths over long COVID and taking that a bit too far, minimizing long COVID more than warranted. And since there's evidence that long COVID symptoms can be severe out of proportion with the original symptoms, it's fair to call it long COVID and not just residual symptoms from heart/lung damage. Maybe that evidence has been misreported (repeatedly by many outlets) or overblown but we're certainly not at a point where we can dismiss it out of hand.
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Dec 12, 2021 13:50
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like I said  the main problem I have with it is this umbrella term of "long covid", I brought up the parallel with Autism because I've worked with young people with special needs for 2 decades now. On the internet if you say "autism" then people kind of understand the vague term, if you say it to me I'm going to want to see an individual healthcare plan because in the real world it's meaningless.
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Dec 12, 2021 13:56
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Fuschia tude posted:Apparently Omicron does not typically kill your senses of smell or taste. I wonder if that has any correlation to long COVID. Did they every actually come up with a plausible reason *why* covid kills your sense of smell and taste? I've heard everything from microclots blocking blood flow to the nasal membranes to it actually damaging the nerves when reproducing to it being straight-up brain damage but I'd be interested to know if anyone's actually properly explained it.
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Dec 12, 2021 14:00
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learnincurve posted:like I said Yeah, I think we know a lot about different kinds of neurodivergence so I understand frustration with an umbrella term there. But we don't have good alternative terms for long COVID yet so the umbrella term is necessary.
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Dec 12, 2021 14:02
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QuarkJets posted:The "mildness" of the disease is being used to suppress panic but it's too early to know how frequently people will experience long covid from this new variant. It's a reminder to not let "mild" fool you into complacency
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Dec 12, 2021 16:02
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