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Quackles posted:My one-year jobiversary is coming up. Any advice on asking for a raise? I asked something similar here in response to some other goons asking as well. Our situations are a different but if you look at the responses to my post and to the ones I quote, etc for some thoughts the thread gave before. I can't speak for results: I talked about it and I have made my request but it won't be fielded until Jan in the normal structure. We'll see what I get if anything.
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Dec 13, 2021 10:32
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Quackles posted:My one-year jobiversary is coming up. Any advice on asking for a raise? You can't. Sorry. This is why negotiating for every cent you can get at offer time is so crucial.
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Dec 13, 2021 13:44
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Ugh I did the Workday application which was the usual poo poo of uploading my CV and then individually also entering my experience. I did the bare minimum I feel won't look actively bad on my application, I've already interviewed for the loving thing. I really feel for people filling out hundreds of these things to find jobs, must be so demoralising. In my reply to H.R. Goon I've ignored his "kindly ask" for my compensation documents and just asked when I will receive the compensation details - he didn't specifically say he needed them before the offer... And now I am just applying in Workday at my current company for a promotion they have already told me I'm getting. gently caress HR
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Dec 13, 2021 14:50
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Ooh swift response:quote:Dear Knox, Draft response: quote:Dear *It's 0600 where Newboss is so I am sure he hasn't spoken to her today and is possibly bluffing. e: Is it worth pointing out that I have a competing offer from my current company? Or maybe I should just call Newboss and say I just want them to make me an offer for what they think I'm worth, and quit screwing around. e2: Ultimately went with quote:Dear Goon knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 15:12
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knox_harrington posted:Ooh swift response: If you point out a competing offer, don't point out directly that it's a counter from your current org.
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Dec 13, 2021 15:39
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leper khan posted:If you point out a competing offer, don't point out directly that it's a counter from your current org. It isn't, my current company doesn't know I am interviewing elsewhere.
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Dec 13, 2021 15:41
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Sorry to spam the thread!quote:Dear Knox, Well, I guess that is slight progress and when we discuss the base offer I will reinforce that I am not moving without the extra $
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Dec 13, 2021 16:29
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Eric the Mauve posted:You can't. Sorry. I'm going to ask anyway, Mr. Downer.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:11
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Hey, I hope you find success. I'm rooting for you. Just go in knowing that the entire purpose of the review/CoL cycle is to prevent the specific thing you want to happen from happening. There is no One Weird Trick to increase your chances, I'm afraid. If you really want to ask your employer for a significant raise it's better to ask off cycle. But, again, you should be aware that the result of asking for more money is more often your termination a few months later than getting your raise and still being kept on long term. Hopefully you're fine with that.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:23
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Eric the Mauve posted:Hey, I hope you find success. I'm rooting for you. Just go in knowing that the entire purpose of the review/CoL cycle is to prevent the specific thing you want to happen from happening. There is no One Weird Trick to increase your chances, I'm afraid. I don't know if I have a review* or CoL cycle. It's not a technology company; it's a company in [such-and-such industry] that makes [such-and-such] and has a small side division that makes [technological product]. That's where I am. There's also evidence (confirmed by one of my references) that they prefer people who will still be around in 5+ years. So I'm assuming the norms may be somewhat different than working 'in tech'. *Performance analyses happen every September, but they only grant a bonus. And my hire date was in February. Quackles fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 18:32
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Quackles posted:I'm going to ask anyway, Mr. Downer. Annual review/ CoL adjustment time is the worst time to ask for an off cycle/non standard raise. HR is busy, budgets for the year have already been set, and you should be getting the token 2.5 to 3% bump already. I find it very unlikely you'll be successful in getting a raise. I hope you do!, just the timing isn't great. It is a good time to lay the groundwork for asking for one, getting feedback on your first year with the company, things like that. Talk about how you're exceeding expectations, enjoy the work, etc etc. knox_harrington posted:The HR goon is now being really pushy about getting my Workday application RIGHT NOW. HR is basically workplace cancer. Workday is the center of the HR universe and often hooks into a ton of different IT systems. I manage IT systems that integrate with workday, and it's just a necessary evil. Nothing happens in the company without it going through workday, it tends to be the source of truth for almost all employee data. They can't onboard you without a workday profile. We're also pushing up on a lot of enterprise IT change freeze windows. We're halting all changes Dec 20th until Jan 4th at my org. Routine stuff still gets processed, but they probably want you in the system before that.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:41
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Quackles posted:I don't know if I have a review* or CoL cycle. It's not a technology company; it's a company in [such-and-such industry] that makes [such-and-such] and has a small side division that makes [technological product]. That's where I am. I'm pretty sure what was described is the universal HR review system that is almost everywhere.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:52
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Quackles posted:I don't know if I have a review* or CoL cycle. It's not a technology company; it's a company in [such-and-such industry] that makes [such-and-such] and has a small side division that makes [technological product]. That's where I am. none of what people are telling you is specific to tech, i have no idea where you got that in your review you should be asking what the next step is in comp, title, responsibility, etc and what you need to do to get to the next step if you are fortunate you'll get an honest answer, but you might not. then you need to agree with your reviewer as to those next steps and how you will prove you have met them. just coming in and saying "hey i want more money" is both just not going to work and also runs the risk of you looking like a clown you should also ask your colleagues how raises and stuff work
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Dec 13, 2021 19:45
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What you're looking for is an adjustment, usually yearly raises come from a finite pool of money and there's only so many ways to game that pool. But adjustments aren't super rare either (and having that conversation most likely won't result in you getting fired). I'd talk to your management and they'll likely want to know what your targets and timeframes are. Usually no manager has the ability to wave a wand and get something done immediately, but if your targets are over the next 2-6 months then a 10%+ raise is very doable, of course it will depend on your personal performance and the company's perception of that value. And most importantly, how expensive it would be to replace you. If you don't trust your management in this conversation you probably don't have many other avenues outside of switching jobs. Promotion is the other path to more money, of course. That's usually related to but not the same thing as an adjustment.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:51
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Promotion is also a conversation you should start 6+ months prior to review time.
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Dec 14, 2021 03:21
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. I rephrased this better later
Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 04:01
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Boba Pearl posted:My wife is like a big deal in bio tech, and is getting her first manager gig, they asked her what number she'd be insulted by, and then offered a base 10k below that and a target bonus that makes it 20k over that number. She doesn't want to give a counter offer because they offered a pay band, and it feels weird to her to ask for more when they gave her three options. I have worked customer service my entire life, she's not a goon, am I torching a good thing encouraging her to send a counter-offer and just take a deal if they say no. No, if the company torches the offer when she counters then they would have been an awful company to work for. I don't understand the three option part, but she should definitely ask for more.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:05
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wait so they asked her what she'd be insulted by, aka a lowball offer, and then lowballed her even more? counter counter counter if she's a "big deal" then she holds the cards in this scenario
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Dec 14, 2021 04:09
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I don't know if I'd even bother, just move on to the next company. "What would insult you? Oh, so here, let us insult you". gently caress that.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:19
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e: I cleaned this up lower.
Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 04:25
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If what you're saying, that she's a "big deal" in her industry, is true, she can easily get offers from other companies, right? Outside of very specific industries/instances where the bonus is based solely on a transparent, measurable metric that's solely within her control, the bonus should be valued at $0. The offer is somewhere between a slap in the face and a clumsy attempt at a gotcha, and she should tell them "This offer is extremely disappointing; I will require (OFFER + 40%) in base salary for this to work," full stop, no explanations. And she should actively be interviewing elsewhere in the meantime. IF what you wrote is true and accurate then they almost went out of their way to insult her and to be honest, if it were me, I'd take the managerial role if an acceptable salary can be negotiated but continue to actively seek a different employer ASAP. An alternative possibility is that maybe she's not quite as hot a commodity as you're representing and the offer is actually somewhere in the neighborhood of her actual value? Also, she really needs some knowledge of what the usual market rate for this particular position is in her particular industry and area. What she's making now isn't necessarily relevant if it's an IC->management move. e: Re-reading the OP, either I'm really misunderstanding something or it almost seems like the company is trying to provoke her to leave Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 04:50
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Yeah something sounds off. Company would not ask your target and then low ball you as an existing employee, they probably phrased it differently and is getting lost in this game of telephone
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Dec 14, 2021 04:56
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Alright, let me start over from the top, because a few things are getting lost in the telephone game, which is probably not great. So I'll re-write it from the beginning. My partner is in a field related to the current pandemic, and is currently looking at different jobs at different company, she likes this company (New Company) and the New Job would be a promotion from her current position. She likes the culture and wants to work at New Company but she doesn't want to negotiate because this will be her first time leaping ship from one company to another. The New Company asked her what she wanted, and what number would insult her. She didn't say what number would insult her, but that she knows the market value for the position she is going for is a range (120 - 160k,) and that they would need to make an offer. They made an offer and said that this is the pay band she's offered: 126 [105 base with .05% fully diluted stock options and 20% target bonus] 132 [110 base with .04%] 138 [115 base with .03%] She wants to just take the 115, because it was the highest offer, I am encouraging her to send them back with a counter offer that at least has the base at someone near her low ball number. I'm honestly thinking she should walk, because this all sounds sketch as hell. I'm talking to her more, and she didn't say she would be insulted by any number, she refused to answer that question, but that she knew that the position was evaluated, bare minimum, for 120 thousand. Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 05:12
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Ahhhh, stock options. So it's a startup. If I'm mistaken about that then she should counter at $145K base and then the offered bonus structure on top of that, and be prepared to walk away if they don't get close to that. That offer looks terrible if true market value for her prospective level is really $120-160. Not quite "walk away, no point negotiating" terrible, but they would need to come a long way up to convince me, anyway. However, a big caveat here--not to get E/N in my BFC here, but the dynamic between her and you is important. If she does something--like, for example, play hardball and walk away if they don't vastly improve their offer--at your advice/encouragement/insistence if her heart's not really in it that could be bad for your relationship. If you're looking at this more collaboratively cool but otherwise, you can give her advice but it has to genuinely be her decision!
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Dec 14, 2021 05:20
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Oh if she didn't say the "insult" number then yeah, it's more of a blank slate than having seen the company raise a red flag. That said, if she's that in-demand, she should absolutely push, and push base salary over bonus. That said, can't tell you how to talk to your wife, or what she'd accept hearing from you. Can just be this guy on the internet talking about the situation in the abstract.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:21
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This is a good time for her to get used to negotiating, but yeah, don't tank your relationship over it, ultimately it's her career.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:26
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Yeah start up, and lol, she is the tough one and will not make a decision just because I made a suggestion, and would never blame me for that.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:44
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She should just walk away. e: someone turn on the Motronic bat signal so he can explain why it's a gargantuanesqually Bad Idea to accept a lowball offer goosed with valueless lottery tickets and unobtainable bonuses to work 90 hour weeks for a company that will very likely go out of business. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 05:59
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Boba Pearl posted:range (120 - 160k,) The range only applies to base salary so even the highest offer is way off the bottom of the range. To me this range of options looks pretty shady, like, OK what's the offer?
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Dec 14, 2021 07:45
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Boba Pearl posted:Alright, let me start over from the top, because a few things are getting lost in the telephone game, which is probably not great. Also, buy your partner an account so they can post here themselves. Lots can get lost in translation.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:35
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Dik Hz posted:Also, buy your partner an account so they can post here themselves. Lots can get lost in translation. Then they’d have to add the enormous cost of an account, av, etc to their comp demand. We don’t want to sink the deal!
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Dec 14, 2021 17:03
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Then they’d have to add the enormous cost of an account, av, etc to their comp demand. We don’t want to sink the deal!
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Dec 14, 2021 17:05
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terrible batna, take literally any other deal
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Dec 14, 2021 17:18
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So the offer is in, and it's not enough. Like, not bad enough for me to start yelling at him on the call, but not even a remotely attractive amount. Based on my current salary of one (1) hundred dollars per annum it shakes out as below compared to my current pay. Swiss pay is weird. I will be negotiating on base pay only as the other items are either a fixed amount or a fixed %age based on grade, as expected. I think the minimum I would consider taking this job for is a 33% increase in my immediate cash pay, so I should ask for 15% more than that in total? I find it hard to gauge what a reasonable amount to expect is. I need speak to my new/future boss at my current job, and make him get me a $ offer for the promotion simultaneously. pre:$ current $ offer Offer% $ want Want% $counter Counter% Base pay $ 100.00 $ 122.78 123% $ 142.18 142% $ 159.19 159% Car allowance $ 11.11 $ 8.67 78% $ 8.67 78% $ 8.67 78% Representation $ 2.31 $ - 0% $ - 0% $ - 0% Total cash $ 113.42 $ 130.65 115% $ 150.85 133% $ 167.86 148% Bonus $ 18.00 $ 24.56 136% $ 30.00 167% $ 30.00 167% LTI $ 12.00 $ 25.00 208% $ 25.00 208% $ 25.00 208%
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Dec 15, 2021 14:54
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Would this be a lateral move or a promotion?
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Dec 15, 2021 15:10
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Promotion for both, to a management role at my current company vs to a higher level IC at the new company. Overall I favour the management job at my current place.
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Dec 15, 2021 15:36
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Is the chart wrong? You state it's lower than your current pay but it appears to be 15% more by the first set and something like 25 - 30% more when you add in bonus and LTI. How much do you want to be a manager and how much insight do you have into the new company for transitioning from IC to manager? Asking because at some companies this opportunity is next to non-existent.
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Dec 16, 2021 19:52
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I think I already know the answer to this question but I need some external validation before I do anything. I had two interviews with a company and they want to hire me. I gave the recruiter a range of 120-140k. I currently make 95k and the new job is basically the same title wise and responsibilities as my current job. New job has much better benefits, is doing much more interesting work, and has a a larger team to learn/grow from. They want a narrowed down range before they make an offer (at which point I asked for a benefits package to review), should I anchor high and go 130-140k? I would be thrilled with 120k and don't want to torpedo this but I know general wisdom is go high, worst they do is say "sorry best we can do is <whatever amount lower>" and it would probably still be a huge improvement for where I'm at. or should I not say anything and ask them to make an offer based on the range they already have?
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Dec 16, 2021 21:06
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Anchor high, especially since you already gave a range. That is essentially the same as telling them to give an offer. They won't pull an offer. They're probably going to counter 120 (or 115) anyway. Anchoring high gives you at least a chance at a little wiggle, but probably not. Never give a range like that.
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Dec 16, 2021 21:16
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I'm firmly in the "don't give a range" camp because all the other side hears is your lowest number and you're broadcasting confirmation that you don't need your higher number I'd just throw out $140k and see where they come in at. If you're confident you're their top pick then they'll probably lead with their best offer.
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Dec 16, 2021 21:17
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