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Irony.or.Death posted:The important part of the incidents on the nuclear side isn't the actual damage done to human lives, it's the widespread public fear that went with them. "100 miners died in this accident" and "everyone has lung problems now" are nothing to the suburban set, "Don't let your kids outside to play this month or they might melt or something? We don't know," is a big deal. Also pairs very well with the massive lobbying campaign, yes. Shooting Blanks posted:It's worth noting that a lot of that public fear also stems from the fact that the vast majority of people don't interact with nuclear technology in any meaningful way, whereas most people even globally DO have at least semi-regular interaction with fossil fuels. Nuclear is a black box to a ton of people, and it's far easier to be frightened of that which you don't know. For example, just as we've seen with the pandemic fatalities, harmful events can quickly become normalized (ie. not register as urgently abnormal in the public consciousness) if any one of several conditions are met. These include:
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Nov 25, 2021 00:47
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Kaal posted:For what it's worth, the social media arm of the US DOE Office of Nuclear Energy talks up the climate change aspects of nuclear energy all the time. Yeah they are doing a decent enough job.
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Nov 25, 2021 00:56
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Shooting Blanks posted:It's worth noting that a lot of that public fear also stems from the fact that the vast majority of people don't interact with nuclear technology in any meaningful way, whereas most people even globally DO have at least semi-regular interaction with fossil fuels. Nuclear is a black box to a ton of people, and it's far easier to be frightened of that which you don't know. so medical tech like MRIs (yes yes I know dropping the N from NMRI kinda proves that the lcd public is indeed irrationally loving mind bogglingly stupid) CT scans, and other medical tech doesnt count? Also there's superfund sites from hydrocarbon plants and other chemicalz that are problems for decades.
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Nov 25, 2021 01:17
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CommieGIR posted:Unfortunately this plays a big part, and a lot of the Nuclear groups like the American Nuclear Society are heavily Conservative, to the point of them promoting Climate Change Denialism and inviting Oil/Gas industry execs to come speak, its been a major pain point with a lot of us. There is a large cross over. The oil and gas people are probably even like classmates in some cases.
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Nov 25, 2021 02:08
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PhazonLink posted:so medical tech like MRIs (yes yes I know dropping the N from NMRI kinda proves that the lcd public is indeed irrationally loving mind bogglingly stupid) CT scans, and other medical tech doesnt count? If you ask the average person how often they encounter nuclear technology in an average year, they will more than likely answer be "zero." Even if they were at some point aware that MRI machines are a nuclear technology, that is a very different connection to make than "I drive a car/take public transit that is fossil fuel based" and connecting that to power gen. It's not that it doesn't count, it's that most people simply don't think about the MRI machine at their local hospital as a nuclear device - they think nuclear nuclear = bombs & reactors. Superfund sites are a valid point but again, not a great comparison because most people are certainly aware of those, but that's Someone Else's Problem. Again, this is simply lack of exposure/awareness for huge swathes of people. It's also worth noting that superfund sites aren't restricted to O&G, huge numbers of them are also mines, chemical plants, etc., but some of the worst ones are in fact nuclear. Rocky Flats Plant in Colorado Hanford Site in Washington The cleanup documents from the DoE, EPA, and other agencies involved with those two is eye opening.
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Nov 25, 2021 02:43
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Shooting Blanks posted:most people simply don't think about the MRI machine at their local hospital as a nuclear device - they think nuclear nuclear = bombs & reactors. because an mri works using radically different principles to nuclear power/bombs. they're so far apart that this comparison is nonsensical
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Nov 25, 2021 06:36
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redleader posted:because an mri works using radically different principles to nuclear power/bombs. they're so far apart that this comparison is nonsensical I kinda figured this was the case, but I also don't know enough to explain why confidently so I wasn't going to say it. But thanks.
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Nov 25, 2021 06:52
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The true answer is that while fossil fuel is terrible, the industries employ a shitload of people so all the deaths get ignored in favor of job number go up. The nuclear industry has a tiny footprint by comparison
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Nov 26, 2021 22:53
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A big flaming stink posted:The true answer is that while fossil fuel is terrible, the industries employ a shitload of people so all the deaths get ignored in favor of job number go up. The nuclear industry has a tiny footprint by comparison What you are saying is: We need more nuclear accidents.
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Nov 26, 2021 23:50
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That'd be rad.
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Nov 27, 2021 03:26
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Minenfeld! posted:That'd be rad. 
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Nov 27, 2021 10:50
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A big flaming stink posted:The true answer is that while fossil fuel is terrible, the industries employ a shitload of people so all the deaths get ignored in favor of job number go up. The nuclear industry has a tiny footprint by comparison Counterpoint: 38,340. That's the number of people employed by the coal mining industry, and they've successfully hijacked the USA's political process. There are 44,803 people working in nuclear.
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Nov 27, 2021 18:11
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Trucking employees the most people in the country and all rich people can't wait to fire every single one of them and replace with AI. Number of people employeed don't matter to the rich, it's just a scapegoat. Same with soldiers in the military. Actually same with all jobs. It's a matter of dirty energy having better lobbying than cleaner energy.
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Nov 28, 2021 02:15
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Shooting Blanks posted:I kinda figured this was the case, but I also don't know enough to explain why confidently so I wasn't going to say it. But thanks. Nuclear magnetic resonance doesn't actually involve any nuclear reactions. Turns out nuclei can do cool things besides fuse and split! So yeah, there was no reason for MRI to bear that stigma. Nuclear medicine, on the other hand....
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Nov 28, 2021 03:29
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So I am at the tail end of my MPA program and working on a research project. I am having a hell of a time because I am an idiot, but am finding all sorts of fun stuff from the last 40 years about climate change and what we knew about it. Here's an article from the New York Times in 1985 warning that we could see a 9F rise in temperature by 2100. It got a whole 20% of the page above a Tiffany & Co. ad. My dumb little project is looking at aggregate polling over the last 40 years and comparing it to legislative action on climate change or global warming (introduced legislation, not passed). I am looking at any indicators that politicians respond to polling on issues (they don't). It warmed my heart to see that our national concern about climate change was highest in the April 2000 and then nosedived following... the 9/11 attacks. And then again following the 2008 financial crisis. The oldest poll I've found is from 1983, where 63% combined respondents said global warming was at least somewhat serious a problem. If there is any good news, the 116th congress saw more climate-related bills than any other by a pretty wide margin. So political consensus looks to finally be catching up to public opinion.
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Nov 28, 2021 19:43
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I've been reliably informed that the economy can still grow if we stay below 1.5c so ya'll can calm down now.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:00
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There's no drat way we're doing that
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Nov 30, 2021 13:59
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skylined! posted:If there is any good news, the 116th congress saw more climate-related bills than any other by a pretty wide margin. So political consensus looks to finally be catching up to public opinion. Not only this, but congress-critters who only two years ago swore they'd never cosign Green New Deal legislation are coming out of the woodwork to endorse GND legislation introduced this year. I think we've hit a social tipping point that puts a lot of pressure on politicos, corporations, and tptb. The trick now is to not let the bankers take control of the transition.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:23
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-Blackadder- posted:To expand on the last point, it's interesting that Nuclear fears have an element of Body Horror that doesn't exist in Fossil Fuels; the psychological impact of which, I think plays a not insignificant part. This body horror type revulsion goes by the name of "dread risk" or "the dread factor". It's triggered by things like the presence of a threat to future generations, potential for absolutely catastrophic outcomes, involvement being involuntary and high numbers of fatalities per event. Nuclear power ticks all those boxes in the public's perception.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:14
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Endjinneer posted:This body horror type revulsion goes by the name of "dread risk" or "the dread factor". It's triggered by things like the presence of a threat to future generations, potential for absolutely catastrophic outcomes, involvement being involuntary and high numbers of fatalities per event. Nuclear power ticks all those boxes in the public's perception. In the public's mind, yes, but outside of Chernobyl, rarely in real life.
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Dec 1, 2021 05:45
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This video is incredibly relevant to a discussion that seems to come up regularly in this thread. Hopefully this post doesn't get taken as advocating for violent action, but I think its important to recognize the various forms violence takes, and why society accepts some and not others. Climate change in and of itself is violence of the greatest order, violence that our society has deemed socially acceptable. Violence that is legally protected and likely to kill untold numbers of people. How do you combat such violence when any act of resistance against it is considered an unacceptable form of violence? How do you fight for change when non-violent protest is not only ineffective, but functionally not possible as any form of protest is ultimately deemed violent? Lots of questions, no answers, but the way our society views violence is exactly how we got here. When indigenous DAPL protestors are labeled as violent, but the cops beating them aren't, that's a problem. When the pipeline that's destroying sacred land and warming the planet isn't seen as violence, that's a problem. Protest needs to be viewed as self defense against very real and horrible violent threat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4G1Gjv7bA eSporks fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 06:14
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https://twitter.com/ReutersScience/status/1468283748575760390 you'll be happy to know we've moved on to creating epitaphs for the climate extinction, rather than making efforts to stop it lmao
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Dec 8, 2021 00:34
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Luckily that type of project has been in the works for years now.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:14
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E: poo poo goddamn this is not my thread. FFS.
Rime fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 01:42
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You linked the wrong video, I'm interested. Slide 3 was essentially what my introduction to natural resources class was, but I'm sure he has more to say. It's precisely why carbon capture, recycling, electric cars, and other engineering solutions won't solve the problem. The problem is a societal mindset completely removed from the consequences of their actions, and a reliance on systems built on overconsumption.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:51
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/ReutersScience/status/1468283748575760390 The State of South Australia may just be the best example of moving to renewables in the world. Which is kinda surprising/amazing.
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Dec 8, 2021 05:06
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Just wanted to check. "Scientists have found that permafrost buried beneath the Arctic Ocean holds 60 billion tons of methane and 560 billion tons of organic carbon." So methane is 100x more powerful so it is 6000Gt+560Gt. Humans release like 35Gt yearly. So if all that stuff beneath ocean melts, it corresponds to ~190x of yearly emissions. Around 8Gt raises co2 ppm. So in total that amount raises the co2 ppm of atmosphere by 800? 🙈 Maybe half of it or so gets captured by oceans? And of course that is just the stuff under ocean, it excludes all the trapped methane&carbon in permafrosts above sea level.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:50
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Getting captured by the ocean contributes to killing the ocean, so that's not all plus side either
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Dec 8, 2021 19:01
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Revealed: Biden administration was not legally bound to auction gulf drilling rights quote:Justice department admits a previous ruling did not force the detonation of what environmentalists call ‘huge carbon bomb’ Drill baby drill. Biden is such a worthless loving rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:07
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He has only a few years left on Earth. Not much to lose anymore.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:12
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Slow News Day posted:
And after you put such effort in your posts defending his position! Glad you've seen the light, brother.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:22
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Conspiratiorist posted:And after you put such effort in your posts defending his position! Shocking that people can change their mind based on new info. Also: Don't do this clapback poo poo. \/\/\/\/\/ Okay my bad. Thanks for clarifying. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 19:24
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No, no, I'm genuinely glad. Apologies if it came off as snarky. This is exactly the sort of indignation we need to feel regarding our disappointing ruling caste - never give politicians the benefit of the doubt. I've had my own experiences with that in too many years doing activism.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:29
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Anyone watch that "nature abhors a dome" video linked in the banner ads? Despite my quibbles with the dichotomy he presents of "hosed" and "not hosed" as well as general frustration of the complete lack of materialist analysis in his reasoning, dude is bang on about the scale and severity of the incoming apocalypse. His comments on the 5 stages of climate grief especially as applied to the world at large after a mass awakening are chilling to say the least
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Dec 14, 2021 08:09
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A big flaming stink posted:Anyone watch that "nature abhors a dome" video linked in the banner ads?  CSPAM Enviro/Biosphere thread is where to be if you were able to absorb those 180 minutes
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Dec 14, 2021 09:09
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Speaking of, https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/12/13/thwaites-glacier-melt-antarctica/quote:But when the shelf fails, the eastern third of Thwaites Glacier will triple in speed, spitting formerly landlocked ice into the sea. Total collapse of Thwaites could result in several feet of sea level rise, scientists say, endangering millions of people in coastal areas.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:58
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tiberion02 posted:
Gonna ask nicely: Do not come into D&D and promote CSPAM threads, thanks.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:52
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CommieGIR posted:Gonna ask nicely: Do not come into D&D and promote CSPAM threads, thanks. Do you want to talk about nature abhors a dome, then?
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Dec 14, 2021 18:36
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A big flaming stink posted:Do you want to talk about nature abhors a dome, then? I don't know what that is. Would you like to just tell us about it?
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Dec 14, 2021 18:38
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CommieGIR posted:Gonna ask nicely: Do not come into D&D and promote CSPAM threads, thanks. It's a related thread and covers the video the guy was asking about better. It's like redirecting someone to a/i for cars imo
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Dec 14, 2021 18:50
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