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Node posted:Every army I have generally has some black guards, executioners, shades, and monsters. Most armies have a fire wizard in them. If a leader has a bonus to a unit like Malekith does with cheaper black guards, I usually give him more of those. But I'm missing something pretty big, I'm getting creamed by the high elves (Tyrion just confederated with Eltharion, so now he's number one) and usually can stop the lizardmen with enough halberds. Never, ever build executioners. Yes they are thematically cool but they are just not necessary at higher difficulties. On hard difficulty and higher the goal of your infantry line is to hold while your ranged troops murder everything. Dreadspears are fine for this throughout the game and once you get ridiculously rich you can replace them with black guard, but there's no reason ever to use executioners on high difficulties. Saving money on elite infantry allows for additional stacks of shades and darkshards, which is where your real punching power is at. Also, avoid most Dark Elf cavalry. It's a waste of money other than the regiment of renown that's all pegasus guys with crossbows, which is ridiculously amazing.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:44
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Yeah the biggest issue (among many) with the way CA handles difficulty settings is that the higher difficulties are just "melee is dogshit". All your opponents get crazy huge melee defense buffs, so your melee exists solely for the purpose of acting as disposable meatshields for your ranged who can get around the crazy melee buffs the AI gets. This is why I pretty much never play on anything above Hard. There's not really any challenge, just enforced cheese. I personally prefer being able to create thematic/varied armies rather than "MOAR RANGED OR DIE".
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Dec 14, 2021 18:47
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Right. To be clear, more ranged is pretty much always the "right" answer unless you are playing Vampire Counts, but on higher difficulties it becomes even more prioritized and you have less room to play suboptimally by doing more fun armies.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:52
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Odd that they showed Skragg in the Mountains of Mourn after saying he’ll start in the Grey Mountains that border the western Empire. They probably just wanted to show off every non-chaos character though. My biggest hope is that we’ll have room for the Monkey King eventually and find out more about his whole deal. He’s said to be based in the Mountains of Heaven between Cathay and Ind and Khuresh, which I think is southeast of the Mountains of Mourn and might not be on the map they showed. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 18:56
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I prefer playing on normal because I can do things like assault walls with black ark corsairs with handbows into spearmen or archers and then gun down the cavalry on the ground. On hard and up you just end up cheesing arcs of fire with your ranged troops to clear the walls and then load even more ranged troops on them afterwards. There are just more entertaining strategies possible on normal whereas the cheese strats get more and more required the harder you make the game.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:56
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Unarmored melee may as well not exist in VH/H. Even spears/halberds can be charged from the front and killed by heavy cavalry, it’s honestly quite annoying. I think they should probably just pull away from MA/MD buffs on higher difficulties and give leadership, weapon strength, and health buffs instead. Maybe a phys resistance buff, or some vigor bonuses?
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Dec 14, 2021 18:57
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jokes posted:Unarmored melee may as well not exist in VH/H. Even spears/halberds can be charged from the front and killed by heavy cavalry, it’s honestly quite annoying. I think they should probably just pull away from MA/MD buffs on higher difficulties and give leadership, weapon strength, and health buffs instead. Maybe a phys resistance buff, or some vigor bonuses? What they should do is a minor ward save, health increase and bump every enemy unit up a tier of 'shielded'. No shield becomes bronze, bronze becomes silver and silver becomes the newly invented gold with like 65% deflection for all projectiles.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:00
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I think that’s the way to go. That way you can easily kill dudes if you outmaneuver them, but they also have more lasting power.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:03
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I dislike how cathay looks like it could be fantasy China from literally any setting and doesn't look very warhammery BUT I think that'll make it fun to rip and tear through as ogres or daemons
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Dec 14, 2021 19:22
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jokes posted:Unarmored melee may as well not exist in VH/H. Even spears/halberds can be charged from the front and killed by heavy cavalry, it’s honestly quite annoying. I think they should probably just pull away from MA/MD buffs on higher difficulties and give leadership, weapon strength, and health buffs instead. Maybe a phys resistance buff, or some vigor bonuses? Leadership would be a terrible idea because leadership is a pretty carefully modulated stat where a few points of swing can move you from "breakable" to "we fight to the last man, lads". The +10 Ld on very hard already causes a situation where state troops and goblins fight like player dwarfs. Health might work pretty decently. I'm a big fan of vigor buffs because they create a theoretically similar situation to the current one(the AI outstats you) except it doesn't occur until the battle has been going for a bit, so it incentivizes you to make plays and take the advantage ASAP because you're going to be at a big disadvantage in a long melee grinder. I also think they should apply blanket missile resist to everyone.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:49
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Communist Thoughts posted:I dislike how cathay looks like it could be fantasy China from literally any setting and doesn't look very warhammery I was thinking about that. The Empire and Bretonnia have looks that are clearly inspired by, but also clearly distinct from, Renaissance Germany/Medieval France and England, respectively. I look at Cathay and just think, "that's China". Maybe it's the fact that I'm less familiar with Chinese architecture and military history.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:52
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The graphic style of the map seems to be more abstracted as well. Not necessarily bad but I like the style in 2 a lot 
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Dec 14, 2021 19:57
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William Bear posted:I was thinking about that. The Empire and Bretonnia have looks that are clearly inspired by, but also clearly distinct from, Renaissance Germany/Medieval France and England, respectively. I look at Cathay and just think, "that's China". It's more China pastiche, China itself actually has really varied geography. But yeah that map really screams generic fantasy China. And the yin yang magic and wuxing compass and Great wall of China are a little on the nose, I'd like a bit more of a twist on the formula than just directly lifting it. Not nearly enough skulls either, if I was imagining a warhammer great wall of China that bad boy would be COVERED in skulls and spikes.
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Dec 14, 2021 20:30
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Tirranek posted:The graphic style of the map seems to be more abstracted as well. Not necessarily bad but I like the style in 2 a lot I'm pretty exited for it. It looks like a miniatures board. Like a little model world.
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Dec 14, 2021 20:37
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I wonder if they will lean into it, since the announcement trailer also had miniatures on a map…
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Dec 14, 2021 20:48
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Dr Christmas posted:Odd that they showed Skragg in the Mountains of Mourn after saying he’ll start in the Grey Mountains that border the western Empire. They probably just wanted to show off every non-chaos character though. Maybe they meant that he starts there in the IE version? Kostaltyn starting in "castle Alexandronov" looks a lot like he starts very near Norsca, northwest of Erengrad near the (I think?) Citadel of Bone currently is. You can see Hellpit on their flyover and it does look like it and the mountain pass to its immediate west is the same. Not going to lie I figured he'd start in Praag. e: Looking at Cathay's cities all being on chokepoints gave me the thought that the "besieged" effect on a city should start the turn after they get besieged, not immediately. That is, if I lay siege to city A, it should retain its zone of control until the start of the next turn, not lose it immediately. Its way to easy to walk past enemy cities by simply besieging them, moving past, and canceling the siege. Think of it as taking the time to build your siege camp and fully encircle the enemy city. But I also have a ton of other possible changes to sieges that may or may not be fun and I want to see what CA has changed too. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 20:51
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Ravenfood posted:Maybe they meant that he starts there in the IE version?
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Dec 14, 2021 20:56
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I think the more impressionist style looks amazing on the campaign map. 2's map didn't always look great zoomed out, especially the forests and rivers, whereas 3K's map was in a similar style to this new one and looked consistently pretty.
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Dec 14, 2021 21:02
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Yeah, I like the style on the map. It definitely looks more readable than WH2's, although WH2's has a grittier look to it. Trade off, I guess. This could all just be the result of the nature of the flyover, as well. We won't really know how poo poo looks until next month, once the Youtube peeps get their hands on everything.
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Dec 14, 2021 22:35
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Man, between the visual style and emphasis on narrow passages, that looks a lot like a MOBA map, which isn't exactly terrible. It looks like it will be a LOT easier to block a pass with an army, hopefully making it harder for the AI to just walk around your armies? Either that or it'll just be total misery for anyone without Underway.
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Dec 14, 2021 22:36
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Picked up WH2 a while ago and been working through some of the lords. I had fun with normal/normal Grom, Skarsnik, Belegar, Settra on the ME campaign. I have been working on a hard/hard Ikkit Claw Vortex campaign which I'm enjoying but close to wrapping up. I'm curious if there's a resource that will tell me what LLs are of a comparable challenge level. What's the difference between upping the difficulty and choosing a more challenging lord? Trying to find a balance between the two.
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Dec 14, 2021 22:55
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Muscle Tracer posted:Man, between the visual style and emphasis on narrow passages, that looks a lot like a MOBA map, which isn't exactly terrible. It looks like it will be a LOT easier to block a pass with an army, hopefully making it harder for the AI to just walk around your armies? Either that or it'll just be total misery for anyone without Underway. Moba maps are for real time games. The TW campaign is turn based. But hopefully the AI will attack standing armies in the way instead of trying to find another way through.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:19
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The increased amount of choke points should heavily inhibit the AI's ability to simply avoid all field combat forever.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:21
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new map looks great. I thought "Cathay looks a lot like the Three Kingdoms map" and then I remembered, duh, of course it does.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:36
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Kanos posted:The increased amount of choke points should heavily inhibit the AI's ability to simply avoid all field combat forever. WH AI suddenly gonna be able to teleport across the map in order to avoid any and all field battles unless they've got 5 armies to your quarter stack of Bretonnian peasants.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:57
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Map is cool but the Mountains of Mourn look nothing like how I'd imagine them. They're still great looking but I always imagined them being like the original Ogre Kingdoms codex cover art.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:04
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Levin posted:Picked up WH2 a while ago and been working through some of the lords. I had fun with normal/normal Grom, Skarsnik, Belegar, Settra on the ME campaign. I have been working on a hard/hard Ikkit Claw Vortex campaign which I'm enjoying but close to wrapping up. I'm curious if there's a resource that will tell me what LLs are of a comparable challenge level. What's the difference between upping the difficulty and choosing a more challenging lord? Trying to find a balance between the two. The labeling of how challenging the lords are in the campaign screen isn't always accurate. Difficulty levels give big buffs to the AI across the board and especially to their units. In my personal experience it's more fun to play a lord in a harder starting position on normal rather than upping the difficulty level. Skarsnik and Belegar actually have some of the hardest starting positions, so you seem well-equipped to take on whatever lord you want at this point. Ikit Claw is uniquely suited to doing well in harder difficulties because of his race and bonuses, you might find a more melee-centric army a slog.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:04
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The hardest start, IMO, is Grom Mortal Empires with Mixu's lords mod installed. You start with just the mountain in Bretonnia surrounded by the modded legendary lords. Your immediate enemy, Parravon, has multiple royal pegasus knights in their starting army and all you have is poo poo tier goblins and orcs.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:13
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The hardest start, IMO, is Grom Mortal Empires with Mixu's lords mod installed. You start with just the mountain in Bretonnia surrounded by the modded legendary lords. Your immediate enemy, Parravon, has multiple royal pegasus knights in their starting army and all you have is poo poo tier goblins and orcs. that sounds really unfun
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Dec 15, 2021 00:22
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:that sounds really unfun
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Dec 15, 2021 00:31
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:that sounds really unfun it sucks very much because overall I like Mixu's lords mods, they add a lot of nice flavor, but that Grom start is basically impossible with it turned on.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:41
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Eh, it's fine having different levels of starting difficulty IMO, difficult starts can be plenty fun.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:41
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That's funny because Grom is considered one of the more broken lords because of his hilariously power creep abilities as a DLC lord, but sure, let's keep circlejerking about how modders don't understand balance everytime this is brought up
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Dec 15, 2021 00:41
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If you have ever used SFO for multiple campaign playthroughs you don't get to complain about balance.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:44
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I've played 3k hours of this game before and after modding, you can suck my loving dick
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Dec 15, 2021 00:46
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One of the least chill threads in Games, I swear to god I ended up abandoning my last campaign as Drycha, I just couldn't make headway against Grimgor. He was at war with all his neighbours, and my armies were fighting him and mostly winning, but his province-count and strength bar just kept going up, and meanwhile I was ignoring my real objectives. The AI isn't good at using most of the factional mechanics, but it can use the hell out of Waaagh armies. I'm gonna take another stab at it (next year) and just leave him the gently caress alone. Unless he's weak when I get to that part of the map, then I might try to kill him off, just for revenge.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:57
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Three thousand hours is like 375 8 hour work days. Roughly, for every 3 days you spent 8 hours at work, you spent another one playing TWW2 since its release 4 years ago.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:59
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Surprising no one, modders (except for Gejnor) dont understand the concept of balance. Elspeth starts with a loving helblaster for fucks sake. I love those mods in general but they significantly increase the modded factions' strength. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 15, 2021 01:01
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Ravenfood posted:Mixu in particular just forgot that what a LL should start with as a player and as an AI maybe shouldn't be the same AND overpowered the starting units in general. lmao hahaha what the hell? Most lords in vanilla top out at like a couple of t3 elites, or maybe a t4 monster if the rest of their roster sucks enough(TK).
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Dec 15, 2021 01:05
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toasterwarrior posted:I've played 3k hours of this game before and after modding, you can suck my loving dick after a long, hard shift at the dick sucking factory? no way, my dude.
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Dec 15, 2021 01:06
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