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Even the Fremen themselves aren't exactly original as they borrow heavily from real world desert nomad cultures like the Bedouin. The key difference is that Pat doesn't know how to make any of those things interesting or to mesh them together into even a semi-believable world. Like, one thing the show for Wheel of Time has gotten really wrong is the ability of the Whitecloaks (KKK + inquisition, aka the Alt Light) to push their agenda beyond the borders of Amadicia, which is far to the south of Tar Valon. In the show, they literally capture a suspected Aes Sedai (female magic user aka witch) in the shadow of Tar Valon (the city and seat of their power), which is just completely absurd and not something Robert Jordan would ever have done in the books. Pat just like has the magic wizard school next to the inquisition's base and for some reason this isn't a problem.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:54
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There's nothing wrong with shamelessly or even brazenly stealing pieces from other works so long as you in turn put in the work and effort to make them fit and do something interesting with them. Rothfuss' doesn't. Fine example is the aforementioned wizard school next door to the inquisition and nothing comes of it. Nobody is affected by this seemingly impossible-to-reconcile issue. The school is overt, the inquisition is known, and yet the two sides don't even make nice with one another they both act as if the other didn't exist.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:23
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Speaking of the inquisition, I will entertain a Kvothe/Glotka crossover.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:28
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PJOmega posted:The school is overt, the inquisition is known, and yet the two sides don't even make nice with one another they both act as if the other didn't exist. This is specifically something that actually could have been interesting and has real world parallels because of weird historical circumstances, but even if things are nominally ignored, they're points of contention and tension that people talk about in hushed whispers and at any moment could explode into open conflict. The board of the school and the inquisition could have had official policies of not acknowledging the existence of the other and having something of a Cold War, but this would be talked about by people in taverns and there would be checkpoints on the road in areas under each's control. Instead, we have absolutely nothing.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:40
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Atlas Hugged posted:Even the Fremen themselves aren't exactly original as they borrow heavily from real world desert nomad cultures like the Bedouin. The key difference is that Pat doesn't know how to make any of those things interesting or to mesh them together into even a semi-believable world. What do you mean borrowed from? The Fremen are canonically just the descendants of Arab peoples in the far future.
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Dec 7, 2021 03:37
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pseudanonymous posted:What do you mean borrowed from? The Fremen are canonically just the descendants of Arab peoples in the far future. Seems kind of pedantic to point this out. The point is that Herbert created a culture and most elements came from a real world source as opposed to him inventing it whole cloth. Jordan took those ideas and spun them into something different, but the DNA is pretty clear. Rothfuss borrowed from one or the other but didn't do anything distinct with it or have it make sense in his world because his world doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to diss on Herbert here.
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Dec 7, 2021 03:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:Seems kind of pedantic to point this out. The point is that Herbert created a culture and most elements came from a real world source as opposed to him inventing it whole cloth. Jordan took those ideas and spun them into something different, but the DNA is pretty clear. Rothfuss borrowed from one or the other but didn't do anything distinct with it or have it make sense in his world because his world doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to diss on Herbert here. To me it's fundamentally different to say "oh yeah these are the uh... 'Ironborn' and they are a unique thing" versus just saying well this book is set 20,000 years in the future or whatever and these people are just the descendants of Arabs/Muslims. There are stories from the Quran told by the Fremen and they refer to the Hajj etc.. TBH Jordan's Aiel make more sense IMO than the Fremen. The Aiel fight each other all the drat time, and run around in the desert, that's why they are great at fighting and walking/running really long distances. The Fremen are just "super hard" because they live in harsh circumstances, but you'd actually expect them to be "not hard at all" because they spend all their time surviving, and I don't recall a lot of mention of the Fremen fighting each other; though I could've missed it. The Sadakaur are similarly "super hard" because they live in terrible circumstances. This is really an example of that "tough times make hard men, hard men make easy times, easy times make soft men, soft men make tough times" canard, when in fact historically basically every time you get civilizations fighting vs "barbarians" that are uncivilized you see the civilization triumphing (though the Fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Mongols sort of belying this they are way more complex).
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Dec 7, 2021 04:13
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pseudanonymous posted:To me it's fundamentally different to say "oh yeah these are the uh... 'Ironborn' and they are a unique thing" versus just saying well this book is set 20,000 years in the future or whatever and these people are just the descendants of Arabs/Muslims. There are stories from the Quran told by the Fremen and they refer to the Hajj etc.. I don't think the distinction is meaningful because being canonically descendant from a culture in a work of fiction is not the same as actually being descended from the culture. He is still fundamentally taking things from one source and repurposing them for his story and inventing and adding in new elements. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this. You are correct in that the Fremen don't necessarily make a ton of sense though. However, ascension to leadership positions is always a fight to the death, which implies at the very least that dueling is common enough that they learn how to do it before getting to a challenge. That would only make them good at one on one fighting though, not at organized battles. He's obviously put a lot of thought into their culture even if it doesn't survive a ton of scrutiny.
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Dec 7, 2021 04:40
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https://twitter.com/PatrickRothfuss/status/1466626997673730048 https://twitter.com/PatrickRothfuss/status/1466628791271407622 I can't even anymore. His charity is the one that pays him a ton of money for managing it, wasn't it? Perhaps he needs money. At least he seems to have some very little of Doors of Stone written, which is slight progress I suppose.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:54
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We all know the prologue he's sharing is just going to be yet another "silence in three parts" with the slightest tweaks so that was already 90% written.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:00
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Do, what's his story anyways? Did his ghost writer die or something and now he's hosed? I can't believe I've been engaged, had a long term 3 year relationship fail, and now been married for three years and he still hasn't written the second book.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:10
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I take it his charity didn't reach those goals. Perhaps his harem has finally offski'd.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:44
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Guess he needs to make a mortgage payment on the warehouse he owns that he based the charity out of. $333k is a wild amount to try and raise in the spur of the moment too. So he's either not serious at all, or genuinely thinks the promise of some Doors of Stone crumbs is worth well above a quarter of a million dollars.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:50
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pentyne posted:Guess he needs to make a mortgage payment on the warehouse he owns that he based the charity out of. He's banking they won't reach the goal so he can use the offer to shut down people saying he hasn't written anything without having to actually write.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:11
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Hizawk posted:Do, what's his story anyways? Did his ghost writer die or something and now he's hosed? I think the most believable theory is that he's been destroyed by his own success. Whatever talent he had never developed because his first book did so well, and then he appears to have basically taken a bunch of short stories about Kvothe and cobbled them together into a narrative, which is why book 2 is so disjointed and Kvothe doesn't really act like Kvothe throughout. After that it's up to the reader to decide why there's not been another book when the whole thing was supposedly written out a decade ago. Personally I think Rothfuss realized that he's got the book version of Duke Nukem 3D on his hands, in some senses it's more valuable as vaporware than actually publishing it, especially since he hasn't done any real writing in the last 10 years, and he can't possibly meet the impossibly inflated expectations he's set.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:50
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pseudanonymous posted:I think the most believable theory is that he's been destroyed by his own success. Whatever talent he had never developed because his first book did so well, and then he appears to have basically taken a bunch of short stories about Kvothe and cobbled them together into a narrative, which is why book 2 is so disjointed and Kvothe doesn't really act like Kvothe throughout. It's not like book 1 wasn't like that too. The entire Tarbean section ends with him literally taking a bath that makes him into a strong and healthy nobleman-alike and then reactivating his 'sleeping mind' so he immediately gets all of his magic powers back that were conspicuously missing during that part.
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Dec 8, 2021 02:56
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pseudanonymous posted:I think the most believable theory is that he's been destroyed by his own success. Whatever talent he had never developed because his first book did so well, and then he appears to have basically taken a bunch of short stories about Kvothe and cobbled them together into a narrative, which is why book 2 is so disjointed and Kvothe doesn't really act like Kvothe throughout. Rothfuss is a mediocre-at-best author who got lucky and at some point he realized he's a fraud, tried to deny it (see: the insane "it's not for you" defense of Slow Regard) and at this point has probably accepted it fully and just wants to milk whatever he can from the insane cult that has formed around his garbage books.
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Dec 8, 2021 05:58
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pseudanonymous posted:The Fremen are just "super hard" because they live in harsh circumstances, but you'd actually expect them to be "not hard at all" because they spend all their time surviving, and I don't recall a lot of mention of the Fremen fighting each other; though I could've missed it. The Sadakaur are similarly "super hard" because they live in terrible circumstances. Kind of? Dune itself calls out that Leto was able to raise troops that could match the Saudaukar in quality and his defining trait is that he takes care of his men. Irulan falls all over herself making up bullshit about how the Saudaukar were decadent or whatever, but this is mostly to retroactively justify their defeat at the hands of the Fremen, which became an Empire wide defeat because Arrakis conveniently had all the spice in the universe and navigational AI is illegal. I forget how much of the attack on the city we see honestly. The Harkonnen troops are also mostly able to oppress the Fremen with impunity until Paul comes along, so I think a lot of it comes down to being motivated that they finally have a chance of kicking the Harkonnens out, weapons no one is used to like rocket launchers, and the Emperor's assumption that the Saudaukar are invincible. It's kind of a perfect storm of politics as well as the military assault.
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Dec 8, 2021 07:01
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Hizawk posted:Do, what's his story anyways? Did his ghost writer die or something and now he's hosed? It seems pretty clear that he enjoys being a famous author with the actual writing being incidental. Since he achieved that goal after two books there's no need for a third. Especially since there's another high profile fantasy author who also isn't finishing his series so he has some cover there.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:32
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The Harkonnen troops are also mostly able to oppress the Fremen with impunity until Paul comes along This isn't really true. The Harkonnens are able to oppress villagers but don't even really know about the Sietches or just how many Fremen there really are out in the deep deserts. When they do try to oppress the Fremen under Rabban's pogrom, they suffer vastly more casualties than they inflict. But to your larger point, it's also important to remember that the Fremen live pretty nice lives in the Sietches. They're much more technologically advanced than any outsiders realize, and they have pleasant domiciles and secret gardens. Also, their prowess stems at least as much from being religious fanatics as it does from living in a harsh environment.
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Dec 8, 2021 18:23
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muscles like this! posted:It seems pretty clear that he enjoys being a famous author with the actual writing being incidental. Since he achieved that goal after two books there's no need for a third. Especially since there's another high profile fantasy author who also isn't finishing his series so he has some cover there. GRRM has his problems, but he's lightyears ahead of Rothfuss in terms of a) having characters I give two shits about, and b)having stuff actually happen.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:56
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pseudanonymous posted:The Fremen are just "super hard" because they live in harsh circumstances, but you'd actually expect them to be "not hard at all" because they spend all their time surviving, and I don't recall a lot of mention of the Fremen fighting each other; though I could've missed it. The Sadakaur are similarly "super hard" because they live in terrible circumstances. AKA the Fremen Mirage.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:23
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https://twitch.tv/patrickrothfuss Reading the prologue of book 3 and doing a Q&A, allegedly e: not watching but he appears to have moved the cheerios boxes mp5 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 20:15
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Wake me up when someone transcribes it for Reddit.
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Dec 14, 2021 20:57
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Wake me up when someone transcribes it for Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/rgg794/doors_of_stone_prologue_a_silence_of_three_parts
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Dec 14, 2021 22:48
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Tree Dude posted:We all know the prologue he's sharing is just going to be yet another "silence in three parts" with the slightest tweaks so that was already 90% written. Called it
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Dec 14, 2021 23:17
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Oh, gently caress off.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:18
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"If the horizon had shown the slightest kiss of blue, the town would be stirring." oh come the gently caress on
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Dec 14, 2021 23:19
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So did Patty frantically write that prologue after his charity hit the milestone? Or did he have a ghostwriter do it? Third option, he wrote it a decade ago when he was still writing?
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Dec 14, 2021 23:21
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Nearby, the bricks of a tiny forge made small, sweet, pinging noises as they cooled. These tiny forgotten noises added a furtive silence to the larger, echoing one. They bound it together, like tiny stitches of bright brass thread, the low drumming counterpoint a tabor beats behind a song.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:29
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That's... bad. Really bad. Why is the second "silence" presented so differently from the first and third? Why is one sentence in the fourth paragraph written in second-person? Why does he describe the silence as being like a song? Why couldn't he incorporate the physical description of Kvothe into the previous paragraph? Why is it "appropriate" that the greatest silence belongs to him? What is the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die?
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Dec 14, 2021 23:33
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Love when the horizon gives me my blue kiss for the day
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Dec 14, 2021 23:34
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I'M GONNA YARTZ
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Dec 14, 2021 23:34
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Capisano posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/rgg794/doors_of_stone_prologue_a_silence_of_three_parts So that was the prologue, which was all that was read today. Recently he'd made some sort of wager saying "if worldbuilders hits $333,333 before i kill the Ender Dragon in Minecraft, I'll release the prologue, a chapter, and another 'special surprise'" https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveFairTomato4Head-Y_-x_D5GBqMML4HD Charity goal was crushed, naturally, and today he...read just the prologue and put the other chapter behind another charity stretch goal. As far as I know nobody has any idea what the "special surprise" ever was, which checks out. The grift here is awe-inspiring even having checked in on this thread for years. It's just Kickstarter But For Other Existing Charities!!!!! mp5 fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 15, 2021 00:26
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Can't help thinking of Lowtax's bird prizes and spaceship jpegs.
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Dec 15, 2021 01:26
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https://twitter.com/tordotcom/status/1470826301711867915?t=CNhCeGReE05SPBrJSznWJg&s=19 I guess when you've given up making money off your own writing you can always make money off someone else's
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Dec 15, 2021 03:28
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The second person in the fourth paragraph is fine in narrative. It's consistent with openings of the first two books. What bothers me about it stylistically is that the omniscient narrator exists only in the opening sequences of each book, unless I'm forgetting some bits, and I might be. It is strange to switch between omniscient third, first person, and third limited
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Dec 15, 2021 06:20
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Nearby, the bricks of a tiny forge made small, sweet, pinging noises as they cooled. These tiny forgotten noises added a furtive silence to the larger, echoing one. They bound it together, like tiny stitches of bright brass thread, the low drumming counterpoint a tabor beats behind a song. I love how completely maladroit this guy is at describing anything. All this praise for "beautiful prose," and every passage reads like a confused Martian who's taking in human sensory input for the first time.
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Dec 15, 2021 06:40
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Antivehicular posted:I love how completely maladroit this guy is at describing anything. All this praise for "beautiful prose," and every passage reads like a confused Martian who's taking in human sensory input for the first time. Like everything else Rothfuss related, there's actually in theory an interesting idea there. I'd love to read a book written from the perspective of an alien who was visiting earth for the first time after having just eaten a dictionary and that's the kind of prose it produced. Of course that's not at all what Rothfuss is going for.
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Dec 15, 2021 08:23
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Hahaha he dropped like 5 paragraphs, Rothfuss you total loving hack e: quote:It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die. I think Rothfuss is literally impersonating himself mewse fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 15, 2021 18:15
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