|
oh, i was confused. i apologize. this is the mixed-race PoC to whom you were referring  im sure they have suffered all kinds of indignity and deserve to be listened to as a voice in the fight against colonial oppression in the form of hokey costumes similar to the one dark helmet wears when hes combing the desert
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 12:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
i shouldnt have woken up early today
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 12:31
|
|
|
I dont know what point you think you're making, but randomly making assumptions about how much racism someone has been subject to is both a bad way to make that point, and makes you look like a lovely person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 12:38
|
|
|
Here's the actual twitter thread discussing this in case anyone actually wants to read what she has to say (it's not long) https://twitter.com/EvilCleverDog/status/1470886547004215300
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 12:42
|
|
|
Pocky In My Pocket posted:I dont know what point you think you're making, but randomly making assumptions about how much racism someone has been subject to is both a bad way to make that point, and makes you look like a lovely person. i think youll find that the assumptions im making arent random at all, and i dont care if i look like a lovely person because i am one. and if you dont know what point im making then i guess im failing to make it. goodbye
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 12:49
|
|
|
lemonadesweetheart posted:Here's the actual twitter thread discussing this in case anyone actually wants to read what she has to say (it's not long) I'm not trying to start a fight and I don't really have a strong opinion on the costumes either way but one of the things this person mentions in that twitter thread is that CR having a setting like Marquet at all means that POC creators attempting to have similar settings will be accused of copying Marquet just due to CR's comparative size. But what's the solution here exactly? Because it seems like there's just not an answer that will make everyone happy. If CR sticks to a white-as-Wonder-Bread setting and it's nothing but British accents, pasty skin tones, and European castles as far as the eye can see, wouldn't POC fans just feel ignored? What's the right balance between 'stay in your lane' and 'be inclusive'? I'm white so I certainly can't speak on racial issues but I am queer and I've always disliked the idea put forth by some queer people that straight people shouldn't write queer stories. Yeah, sometimes straight people write really lovely queer stories but sometimes they write really good ones. As far as I'm aware, Sam is straight, but Tary's story worked really well for me. I felt seen by it and I was sympathetic to somebody trying to force themselves to fit the role they were expected to fill until they realized they just can't and it's not going to work, and then having to deal with the ramifications of that. Other queer people didn't like it, they didn't enjoy watching a gay man try to force himself to be straight or have homophobic parents. That wasn't what they wanted to see in a show they watch to get away from reality for awhile. They're not wrong but neither am I. I guess my point is that it feels like the answer is "somebody's always going to be unhappy" and the only thing you can do is try your best to walk that tightrope between sensitive and inclusive. And they do have a sensitivity consultant. I don't know their qualifications or how well they're working out - that's kind of always going to be invisible because we're not privy to whatever ideas the consultant is shooting down or reworking. The pith helmets and explorers outfits just feel like the weirdest thing to take issue with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Dorian was able to cast Chromatic Orb because he took a feat. So would that most likely be Magic Initiate (Sorcerer)? If one of his cantrips is a ranged attack, that's probably a great pick, because he doesn't have the HP to run up and whack things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
CuwiKhons posted:I'm not trying to start a fight and I don't really have a strong opinion on the costumes either way but one of the things this person mentions in that twitter thread is that CR having a setting like Marquet at all means that POC creators attempting to have similar settings will be accused of copying Marquet just due to CR's comparative size. But what's the solution here exactly? Because it seems like there's just not an answer that will make everyone happy. If CR sticks to a white-as-Wonder-Bread setting and it's nothing but British accents, pasty skin tones, and European castles as far as the eye can see, wouldn't POC fans just feel ignored? What's the right balance between 'stay in your lane' and 'be inclusive'? I don't want to seem like i'm speaking for her or anything but I don't think her point is that they shouldn't have a setting like Marquet just that it comes with a certain weight and responsibility that will directly impact people of colour and if they're careless about it, it could end up being very negative. Given the setting is Marquet, having them dressed the way they are is tone deaf because of the context. lemonadesweetheart fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Dec 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 14:16
|
|
|
lemonadesweetheart posted:If they're careless about it, it could end up being very negative. If nobody in the room thought about that (or felt comfortable raising it if they did), then that's really something I hope they address moving forward... and I have the sense it's this one. This isn't improvisational or the outgrowth of a series of dynamic onscreen & plot choices, it's a bunch of intentional decisions (backed by $$ and apparently a ton of labor) that are being made against a backdrop of "Early appearances of Marquet felt like Southwest Asian Middle Earth as envisioned by a guy who loves Arabian Nights". DeathSandwich posted:The problem is that it's so hard to take anything on Twitter in good faith, it's hard to tell if any one person is someone truly concerned about cultural appropriation or is it's someone feigning outage because they want to be back in another euro centric setting or if they just want to pick a fight just for fighting sake.  to show others... how irrelevant it is?  I think Brian's initial response was wildly counterproductive and absurdly unfair towards the OP, but at least I get where he was coming from: He felt it was an unfair and unwarranted attack on his wife and the friends who've provided them with lifechanging money and the opportunity to earn much more. Given Ashley and Laura's social media experience after Last of Us 2, I don't blame him for that sort of thing being a raw nerve, even if he handled those feelings shittily. The other folks leaping in on social media to uphold the honor of rich internet strangers? As  and unfathomable to me as Musk fanboys and, to my eyes, a more toxic slice of the fandom than cringy dorks who take 3 minutes to
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 15:13
|
|
|
The intro (like C2's first intro) doesn't have anything to do with the campaign setting so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't really think about the juxtaposition. It's more of an intro for the players and the concept of a tabletop RPG, rather than anything in the story. I imagine they'll probably move to a more C3-oriented intro in a year or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Volte posted:The intro (like C2's first intro) doesn't have anything to do with the campaign setting so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't really think about the juxtaposition. It's more of an intro for the players and the concept of a tabletop RPG, rather than anything in the story. I imagine they'll probably move to a more C3-oriented intro in a year or something. They make strange choices with these generic intros. C2’s original intro was definitely a deliberate style, too, and also came across as remarkably “white.” I don’t know their procedure for filming these things. I don’t think the new intro is very good: the stuff at the table and the “Travis running away” bits are fun, but they overused a few effects and the overall structure is baffling (will C3 have a lot of archeology?). D&D itself started out as overwhelmingly white (and male), and watching that change over time has been wonderful, so I was always a little uneasy at the C2 “good old days” intro. They are running a business that brings in millions of dollars. I don’t know how much it cost to make that intro, but it wasn’t $0. Criticism of the intro seems fully justified, even if all the critiques being posted might not be. That said, Twitter is often awful, especially for actors and creators like the Crit Role crew, because the work forces these people to be on Twitter, and the work is often closely associated with the person. Taking personal comments and attacks personally is really drat easy to do even when you aren’t reliant on Twitter for your work; it also doesn’t help that there’s little differentiation between the professional and personal use of a Twitter account. The platform seems to thrive on abuse and harassment more than it works to protect against it. “More engagement” is the main metric of success, and the app makers want you to spend all day on their app. There’s room for reasonable people to have good-faith arguments. I don’t know that tone policing is very valuable, but I don’t know how to screen out the toxic element that can be present in these discussions. I do know that toxic voices are easily amplified by the Twitter format; it’s too bad Crit Role fans don’t have a better place to engage with the creators in a way which shuts those voices down while amplifying the good-faith debate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 16:09
|
|
|
It's a group of friends playing D&D. People complaining about it being "too white" is dumb, it's their circle of friends. It's not a casting call for a movie. They have other friends and guests appear from time to time, but the core are a bunch of friends, who have been playing together for years and years before "Critical Role" was even formed, and broadcast. D&D itself is entirely made up. You can decide to play in what our current reality is if you want. But they're not. The entire gaming world of Exandria is from Matt's head. It's fiction. If he wants to include buildings that look like Japanese Pagoda's but were built by a fictitious race of lizard people, that's his right. It's his world. His fiction. It has nothing to do with our world, with Japan, or anything else. Much of what is shown on CR is made up on the fly entirely. Matt has very detailed designs for his world, but they only go so far. Maybe they'll just take it all back offline, because at the end of the day, it's him and his friends gaming together in a made up world that they allowed us to watch only because someone suggested it to them offhand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Philthy posted:Maybe they'll just take it all back offline, because at the end of the day, it's him and his friends gaming together in a made up world that they allowed us to watch only because someone suggested it to them offhand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 16:47
|
|
|
I feel like that was a possibility earlier, but, as time goes on and CR gets bigger and bigger, it'll be harder to just go back into offline stuff. Sure Matt could stop being a dm for the online games and maybe the players would be different but they've built a huge brand and business now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
in theory any hugely successful business could decide they're tired of making millions of dollars and quit at any time doesn't happen often though
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 18:09
|
|
|
In a year, CR will have McDonald's happy meal toys.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
Yeah, the notion that Critical Role is just a game between friends at this point is silly. They are a corporation with a TV show, multiple runs of comics, literally the most successful live stream on twitch Criticizing them is 100% fair game. I disagree with some crit they receive but most of it is from relatively small accounts talking to their people or whatever If it didn't get elevated by someone with a poo poo ton of zealous followers ready to dunk on the person with the "bad criticism" it would have never elevated to this point. Dexo fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 18:17
|
|
|
ChaosReaper posted:I feel like that was a possibility earlier, but, as time goes on and CR gets bigger and bigger, it'll be harder to just go back into offline stuff. Sure Matt could stop being a dm for the online games and maybe the players would be different but they've built a huge brand and business now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 18:23
|
|
|
Moose King posted:The fanbase seems to have reached a point where Matt is basically going to get yelled at by the twitter maelstrom no matter what he does. If he uses the SWANA cultural influences he's said he was inspired by for Marquet, a howling mob will accuse him of using racist caricatures and harmful stereotypes, but if he goes in the opposite direction and tries to avoid those things the same mob will accuse him of whitewashing the SWANA influences the region "should" have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
Moose King posted:The fanbase seems to have reached a point where Matt is basically going to get yelled at by the twitter maelstrom no matter what he does. If he uses the SWANA cultural influences he's said he was inspired by for Marquet, a howling mob will accuse him of using racist caricatures and harmful stereotypes, but if he goes in the opposite direction and tries to avoid those things the same mob will accuse him of whitewashing the SWANA influences the region "should" have. And if he says "gently caress it" and goes back to the C1 /C2 settings, the howling anger vortex will just yell that he's unwilling or unable to engage with the cultures of non - white people. They're effectively in a no - win situation and the only one who stands to benefit is the people doing sick dunks on Twitter for clout. Is the costuming in the intro aggressively colonials and actively, knowingly racist? I don't think so. In bad taste? Probably. Could they do better? Yeah most certainly. Can that be accomplished inside of a howling rage tornado of Twitter? gently caress no. Edit vvvvvv Basically this. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Dec 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
Stop reading twitter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
fandoms are the loving worst
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
I just started watching CR this campaign and am enjoying it
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:I just started watching CR this campaign and am enjoying it It’s a pretty good show!
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:I just started watching CR this campaign and am enjoying it Welcome home, critter Ignore the family, they act like this every time we get together
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
scary ghost dog posted:
You're calling out the person who posted a defense of the costuming, just FYI.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 19:39
|
|
|
I've just actually subscribed for the first time. I supported the kickstarter but this is the first time shoving money at them. (I did it for the cool little perks but he post office hosed up and now I won't get it  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:I just started watching CR this campaign and am enjoying it Yeah, it’s good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
Philthy posted:It's a group of friends playing D&D. People complaining about it being "too white" is dumb, it's their circle of friends. It's not a casting call for a movie. They have other friends and guests appear from time to time, but the core are a bunch of friends, who have been playing together for years and years before "Critical Role" was even formed, and broadcast. D&D itself is entirely made up. You can decide to play in what our current reality is if you want. But they're not. The entire gaming world of Exandria is from Matt's head. It's fiction. If he wants to include buildings that look like Japanese Pagoda's but were built by a fictitious race of lizard people, that's his right. It's his world. His fiction. It has nothing to do with our world, with Japan, or anything else. Much of what is shown on CR is made up on the fly entirely. Matt has very detailed designs for his world, but they only go so far. A multi-million dollar streaming show with employees is not just a group of friends playing D&D. I disagree with your premise that a core friend group means the show is immune to criticism. If a group of Neo-Nazis running a Greyhawk campaign where the PCs are trying to bring back the Suel Empire started a by-subscription streaming show and it took off, would they be immune to criticism because they're just a group of friends playing D&D? Even if the campaign was about trying to exterminate the Baklunish and Flan peoples? The Crit Role team are clearly not Neo-Nazis. They are on record, repeatedly, for wanting to be good allies. Which means that they should WANT to be criticized when they screw up. Not all criticisms are aimed at people personally. "Why did you make these choices when you designed and filmed the new intro" is radically different from "You are racists and anyone supporting you might as well join the Klan." I have compassion for the Crit Role team's exposure to toxicity online. But that can co-exist with compassion for some of the people who are calling them out on a specific point like this. If I'm sick of thinking about racism or cultural appropriation or sexist or harassment or microaggressions, I can live out the day without being confronted by any of them, because I either fit the "default" for where I live or can pass as that. Someone who is black where I live doesn't have the luxury of going to the store or driving on the highway while forgetting racism exists. It is loving exhausting. There's a difference between someone being a vindictive rear end in a top hat and someone whose raw nerves aren't their fault responding overzealously when they can't even escape from this poo poo for a few hours by watching Critical Role. I can also be pro-Crit Role team and criticize them for an ongoing blind spot in how they operate their business venture. After all, as you point out, none of this started as a business venture, and the things they need to do to keep things operating in the manner they want are going to keep changing as they get bigger and bigger. I'm not calling for them to kick Sam or Travis or Liam out and put in somebody who isn't white, I'm suggesting that the C2 and C3 generic openings might not have involved anyone in the planning who wasn't white, and that they should have. Maybe I'm wrong, their cultural advisor OKed the C3 opening, and this was a deliberate choice on their part. But it sure looks like something unintentional. They can and should be encouraged to do better, because they want to do better, and they can't without feedback. As for the claim that it's just fiction, I don't know where to start. If you think fiction and invented stories can't do harm to people in the real world, there is ample evidence to refute you. That doesn't make the Crit Role team villains, but it does mean that they should take care to put out the messages that they want out there, with deliberation. EDIT: I agree that C3 is fantastic so far and I'm really liking these characters as well as the setting and adventure design. Operating with a hub and some "locals" to start with works exceptionally well, and the importation of some of the Exandria Unlimited crew went far more smoothly than I anticipated. I do feel like they haven't fully realized the potential of the new set yet, but I'm looking forward to that (and to Travis freaking out in particular). Narsham fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfcDt-eRWSQ
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
The criticism over the costumes is reasonable, but it's being slippery-sloped all the way to "SWANA artists are no longer going to be able to reference their own culture without being accused of copying Critical Role" which is just downright making poo poo up. Criticism is one thing, but one-sided Twitter mic-drop threads barely qualify. Brian definitely hosed up hard, but he's not part of CR anymore, and for good reason it would increasingly seem.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
These are so good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
Didn't they do a poo poo ton of due diligence by hiring sensitivity reviewers and the like for this campaign?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/DarringtonPress/status/1471163376999059457 Explains why we haven't gotten a write up of Ashton and FCG's subclasses yet. There's a new book coming out! Although none of the listed ones look quite like what those two are doing either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 00:50
|
|
|
Chiwie posted:Didn't they do a poo poo ton of due diligence by hiring sensitivity reviewers and the like for this campaign? Yes. While I’m sure there are valid criticisms, this really feels like yet more of the same old cycle of left-leaning communities cannibalizing themselves over relatively minor differences, because it’s much more satisfying to yell at someone that’s slightly wrong who agrees you might have a point than someone that’s much more in the wrong who’s just going to tell you to go gently caress yourself. Like, could CR have been slightly more considerate of these issues? Yeah probably. Is this worth even a tiny fraction of the sturm und drang over it when there are vastly more pressing issues? Not really.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
Arcsech posted:Yes. While I’m sure there are valid criticisms, this really feels like yet more of the same old cycle of left-leaning communities cannibalizing themselves over relatively minor differences, because it’s much more satisfying to yell at someone that’s slightly wrong who agrees you might have a point than someone that’s much more in the wrong who’s just going to tell you to go gently caress yourself. That's why BWF cannot fall into the trap of name searching CR poo poo and elevating it beyond some person being like hey this relative to the setting makes me a bit uncomfortable. Not "rabble rabble CR are racists" just that it makes this person uncomfortable and they explain why. All of these dust ups have mostly been that dude rage tweeting about some dumb poo poo on reddit or tweet he's found online from some relatively small impact person, with his huge rear end followership.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
CuwiKhons posted:https://twitter.com/DarringtonPress/status/1471163376999059457 Yeah I don’t think they’re playing any of the subclass options listed there. I think Matt’s just comfortable enough homebrewing at this point that he doesn’t mind whipping something up if a player has a concept in mind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
CuwiKhons posted:https://twitter.com/DarringtonPress/status/1471163376999059457 I think this is mostly a reprint of the older version of the same book with some bonus stuff added. Finally getting it out from the other publisher and that Geek and Sundry deal. Ashton and FCG will be in the Marquet campaign guide, probably sometime in late 2023.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
I hope they release individual gifs of the characters dancing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ygQ4x_3Ok For people who don't follow Marisha on youtube, every week after the episode is uploaded she'll release a highlight real of stuff she found funny or important. I've found they make a nice refresher prior to each new episode, and they're great for picking up things I missed when it aired live.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 02:56
|
|