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I have come across my first Windows 11 glitch that did not happen in 10. My Canon scanner/printer cannot connect to the scanner in software unless I plug and unplug the scanner's USB port. Even powering the drat thing down doesn't work, it has to be a USB unplug and replug. Then finally Windows 11 can "talk" to it again. HalloKitty posted:The sweet irony here is, I swear there was a bug in Windows once that caused very slow log on times if the wallpaper was set to a solid colour What's funny is the sole reason I probably never experienced that was because I was so loving lazy that instead of figuring out how to make the background a solid color I would just find a 10x10 pixel black square on Google images and I would make that the background (tiled, not stretched of course because that would use ram!!).
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Dec 16, 2021 04:00
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Why can't I right click the taskbar to get to the task manager any longer? Why do I need to involve a keyboard into this? Who is it helping by removing this?
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Dec 17, 2021 01:57
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Right click the start button, it's been put in there with a bunch of other options.
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Dec 17, 2021 02:00
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Honestly......I did the upgrade on my laptop and it legitimately seems quicker than it had been prior.
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Dec 17, 2021 03:24
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Right click the start button, it's been put in there with a bunch of other options. WHY MOVE IT, IT WAS FINE WHERE IT WAS
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Dec 17, 2021 04:46
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Blooster posted:WHY MOVE IT, IT WAS FINE WHERE IT WAS You see, if there was one thing Windows users were begging for it was for their desktops to be more like touch-screen iPads. Furthermore,
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Dec 17, 2021 04:55
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Blooster posted:WHY MOVE IT, IT WAS FINE WHERE IT WAS Every new UI developer wants to improve windows by just randomly moving poo poo around and driving people crazy.
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Dec 17, 2021 05:26
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DerekSmartymans posted:You see, if there was one thing Windows users were begging for it was for their desktops to be more like touch-screen iPads. Furthermore, I thought that was what Windows 8 was
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Dec 17, 2021 06:07
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Blooster posted:WHY MOVE IT, IT WAS FINE WHERE IT WAS fuckin tell me about it
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Dec 17, 2021 06:10
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Blooster posted:I thought that was what Windows 8 was Win11 “innovation” at work.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:13
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It makes as much sense to put it under start as it does the taskbar, and since they've had other power user options there since Windows 8, that's where it lives now.  And as has been pointed out many times in this thread since the centred taskbar was announced, a corner icon is an easy target to hit with a mouse, so it's still just as easy to get to on desktop while also being friendlier for touch.
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Dec 17, 2021 10:43
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It makes as much sense to put it under start as it does the taskbar, and since they've had other power user options there since Windows 8, that's where it lives now. It's not about it being just as easy to get to by right clicking the start menu, it's more "why get rid of it from the Taskbar" when it wasn't bothering anyone by being there. It fucks with my muscle memory for absolutely no gain to anyone else (they could have easily just had it there for both) and it's starting to piss me off that Microsoft doesn't realize that the only reason anyone uses Windows is because we're used to it.
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Dec 17, 2021 14:36
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Yeah we're all mad about you having to click a bit to the left now. Windows is garbage.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:17
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Vic posted:Yeah we're all mad about you having to click a bit to the left now. Windows is garbage. Nobody is saying they are trashing their Win11 machines because it’s a different click-space, it sounded like a fellow user confused about a design change from (at least) twenty years of preceding versions for no apparent reason and to no “gain.” Even when the Live Tiles were instituted, there was an option to flick a button to make it more like it was from ‘95 till then. Like I said months ago, you shouldn’t have to dig into the fuckin’ registry or pay for third-party software to “restore” use of an OS upgrade…I have zero trouble with them trying new things, but moving task-manager from taskbar to Start button is not an “innovation.” It smacks of change-for-change’s-sake that has nothing to do with UI settings and more of padding a checklist counter. It doesn’t improve anything, and there is no way offered in the OS itself to “repair” it for any (and multiple) users. Hell, make Win10 settings “DLC” and charge me $10 for a radio button. Hell, I paid Stardock to make wallpaper slideshows a thing 18 years ago and if I want to only forever tile a flying toaster.bmp for background the option is still there in settings! Why not mix-n-match options to tweak the new GUI for the users who actually do care, just like every new version since ‘98 allowed you to do available in the Settings?
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Dec 17, 2021 18:29
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It makes as much sense to put it under start as it does the taskbar
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Dec 17, 2021 18:30
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DerekSmartymans posted:Nobody is saying they are trashing their Win11 machines because it’s a different click-space, it sounded like a fellow user confused about a design change from (at least) twenty years of preceding versions for no apparent reason and to no “gain.” Even when the Live Tiles were instituted, there was an option to flick a button to make it more like it was from ‘95 till then. Like I said months ago, you shouldn’t have to dig into the fuckin’ registry or pay for third-party software to “restore” use of an OS upgrade…I have zero trouble with them trying new things, but moving task-manager from taskbar to Start button is not an “innovation.” It smacks of change-for-change’s-sake that has nothing to do with UI settings and more of padding a checklist counter. It doesn’t improve anything, and there is no way offered in the OS itself to “repair” it for any (and multiple) users. Hell, make Win10 settings “DLC” and charge me $10 for a radio button. Hell, I paid Stardock to make wallpaper slideshows a thing 18 years ago and if I want to only forever tile a flying toaster.bmp for background the option is still there in settings! Why not mix-n-match options to tweak the new GUI for the users who actually do care, just like every new version since ‘98 allowed you to do available in the Settings? You can make this argument about literally every single UI element of any software where "I don't know why they changed it" becomes a damning evidence of incompetence and/or malice. Here's a possible reason: Having two different context menus in the same UI element is weird. They consolidate it into one. Why was there even a difference in the first place? Somebody post the copypasta about the bugfix for cpu overheating causing someone's broken workflow.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:57
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New Windows version comes out, everyone bitches and moans about the changes. Next version comes out, they buy it early, and bitch and moan about the changes. The cosmic ballet...goes on.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:57
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Just swing your mouse vaguely in the direction of the bottom left and you'll hit it, stop reaching for things to be miserable about.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:01
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If they actually did HCI testing and published white papers documenting how the changes were measurably better I'd begrudgingly accept it, but they don't.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:02
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:New Windows version comes out, everyone bitches and moans about the changes. Next version comes out, they buy it early, and bitch and moan about the changes. The cosmic ballet...goes on. This is actually the baffling thing to me tbh. I'm gonna bitch and moan about Windows 11 to anyone who will listen, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be running Windows 10 until the 2025. Windows 11 UX is bad.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:14
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:This is actually the baffling thing to me tbh. I'm gonna bitch and moan about Windows 11 to anyone who will listen, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be running Windows 10 until the 2025.  Not like it ruins my day, but I did dl Win11 on my 2015 computer and I keep it updated. I catch myself actively avoiding it for daily tasks. I would rather use my 2011 laptop or 2021 gaming rig because I still lose myself in nested right-clicks that don’t make any sense as to grouping or sorting, simply because my TD makes right-clicking followed by keeping the option menu on the single line to open the correct new options’ menu and so on more difficult. Not a general problem for the majority, I know, but I’m much more likely to click the option I want from a long, single-click menu than a nested menu. It’s frustrating and can turn a right-click into a 15 second ordeal, but at least StartAllBack still works.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:38
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If I don't notice that Windows 11 is running on a particular computer, it's working as intended. I do get some shakes from Explorer for some reason and yeah Edge is not welcome but typical.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:44
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Perplx posted:If they actually did HCI testing and published white papers documenting how the changes were measurably better I'd begrudgingly accept it, but they don't. Is there any company anywhere ever that publicly publishes all data that goes into minor UI changes?
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Dec 17, 2021 20:47
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I press windows key, I type the name of something. It opens. Windows 11 works okay. I don't find it different enough to matter honestly. Some small stuff is nicer than 10. Bit more snappy.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:05
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A lot comes down to PC = Windows that makes it weird
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Dec 18, 2021 00:15
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It's very interesting to see conversations about Operating System UX. I love to nerd out about software UX and something I love to see when trying to figure out what works with feature-rich software is not just if something works, but how it works. If you talk to an audience working with creative software, they are very likely to consider that there way may not be the only way, and will frequently make attempts to understand how other people use this software to accomplish and similar or identical task. The end result is that there is this feedback loop that strongly supports multiple entry points and paths, and that removing them is generally considered a bad thing, for better or worse. Even software that has a VERY strong vision for workflow (Reason comes to mind) will be slow to remove or change the crit path of workflows because the feedback will trend to negative. When it comes specifically to Operating Systems, that all evaporates. Part of this is because the audience is now, 'everyone' and not just professionals. Not only is there no consideration for a different workflow, but an almost aggressive stance taken of, 'Well, you can do it this one way, so I don't see what the problem is here'. Trying to convince people that disparate ways of interfacing with the same functionality is probably a good idea as your software grows in features and complexity is kind of a hot take in these circles. The end result is the feedback loop gets inverted and this complex software ends up adding more features with fewer options and entry points. It makes little sense to me and I place a lot of blame on that as to why Windows requires an ever-growing block of third party software to make it do what it could 20 years ago. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 00:19
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:New Windows version comes out, everyone bitches and moans about the changes. Next version comes out, they buy it early, and bitch and moan about the changes. The cosmic ballet...goes on. I don't recall anyone complaining about the UI changes Microsoft made with Windows 95 (the most drastic change there ever was and ever will be), Windows 98, XP, or 7. Because every one of those versions they added something instead of taking stuff away or moving things to stupid new locations for absolutely no discernable reason.
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Dec 18, 2021 00:44
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I plan on waiting at least until they bring back vertical taskbars.
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Dec 18, 2021 00:51
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Honestly, one of the biggest "gently caress you" changes I'm aware of in Windows 11 is getting rid of small icons on the taskbar. Of the things I do on a fresh Windows install, setting the taskbar to small icons is one of the first. Why would I waste any more screen space than I need to? The rest of the changes to the taskbar also appear to be regressions, like not allowing icons to be ungrouped. I still see no benefit to Windows 11, and significant drawbacks, so I'm waiting for them to either fix it or add something compelling to make me switch, like DirectX 12 was on Windows 10.
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Dec 18, 2021 00:52
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Blooster posted:I don't recall anyone complaining about the UI changes Microsoft made with Windows 95 (the most drastic change there ever was and ever will be), Windows 98, XP, or 7. Because every one of those versions they added something instead of taking stuff away or moving things to stupid new locations for absolutely no discernable reason. Windows 95 was a fresh and obvious upgrade that everyone was excited for, but there was plenty of complaining about the numerous bugs. Windows 98 was celebrated as a much-needed improvement to performance and stability, though nobody commented on the UI because MS didn't change anything there. Windows XP, though? There was a ton of whining about the UI changes MS made to that. Windows 7 too. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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Dec 18, 2021 00:57
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:It's very interesting to see conversations about Operating System UX. I love to nerd out about software UX and something I love to see when trying to figure out what works with feature-rich software is not just if something works, but how it works. If you talk to an audience working with creative software, they are very likely to consider that there way may not be the only way, and will frequently make attempts to understand how other people use this software to accomplish and similar or identical task. The end result is that there is this feedback loop that strongly supports multiple entry points and paths, and that removing them is generally considered a bad thing, for better or worse. Even software that has a VERY strong vision for workflow (Reason comes to mind) will be slow to remove or change the crit path of workflows because the feedback will trend to negative. Good post. The last two senteces I don't agree with. Can't compare specialized software with an OS and I'd elaborate but I feel you'd figure out why.
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Dec 18, 2021 01:03
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Rinkles posted:I plan on waiting at least until they bring back vertical taskbars. Same same
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Dec 18, 2021 01:05
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You'll get used to any changes and after 20 years you'll forget you ever hated it.
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Dec 18, 2021 01:16
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owls or something posted:You'll get used to any changes and after 20 years you'll forget you ever hated it. Windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsfnuyyjaB0
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Dec 18, 2021 01:21
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Windows 95 was a fresh and obvious upgrade that everyone was excited for, but there was plenty of complaining about the numerous bugs. Windows 98 was celebrated as a much-needed improvement to performance and stability, though nobody commented on the UI because MS didn't change anything there. Windows XP, though? There was a ton of whining about the UI changes MS made to that. Windows 7 too. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Tons of people complained about Active Desktop when 98 came out, that was a UI change and it was mostly unwelcome. That was basically the main complaint, people felt like IE4 was being forced down their throats and into the UI when it should just be a web browser. 98 itself wasn't all that celebrated, 98se was.
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Dec 18, 2021 01:33
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If you remove all of the apps from the start menu when you first press it, it doesn't shrink it or just show you all applications so it's just a giant rear end empty space. Or am I missing some setting?
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Dec 18, 2021 01:40
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Honestly, one of the biggest "gently caress you" changes I'm aware of in Windows 11 is getting rid of small icons on the taskbar. Of the things I do on a fresh Windows install, setting the taskbar to small icons is one of the first. Why would I waste any more screen space than I need to? The rest of the changes to the taskbar also appear to be regressions, like not allowing icons to be ungrouped. Because how else are you going to rip off this garbage 
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Dec 18, 2021 01:46
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Blooster posted:Because how else are you going to rip off this garbage Makes it easier for the millions of desktop touchscreen users. That don’t use a physical kb/m. The Win11 iPad crowd.
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Dec 18, 2021 02:04
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Blooster posted:I don't recall anyone complaining about the UI changes Microsoft made with Windows 95 (the most drastic change there ever was and ever will be), Windows 98, XP, or 7 ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha are you loving serious. Oh to be young enough to not remember the days of "YOU HAVE TO PRESS 'START' TO STOP WHAT A lovely DESIGN" rage or the collective loving egg everyone laid when they saw XP for the first time
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Dec 18, 2021 04:24
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha are you loving serious. Oh to be young enough to not remember the days of "YOU HAVE TO PRESS 'START' TO STOP WHAT A lovely DESIGN" rage or the collective loving egg everyone laid when they saw XP for the first time Yeah like Win11 seems like, not great, but boy this is not some weird outlier with Windows UI changes.
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Dec 18, 2021 05:46
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