(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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sexpig by night posted:Also I just genuinely hate what they did with Gren in general and hate that they genuinely seemed to think they were somehow doing good. It's completely emblematic of how hollywood and all treats 'diversity' in its products and you 100% can't convince me that and the Faye's costume thing weren't just them manufacturing outrage from the dregs of the internet for easy attention because I refuse to believe after watching it anyone in the writer's room gave a single poo poo about nonbinary people or women being well treated in their product. I'd push back against Faye's outfit, if only because I don't think there's any way her OG look would have worked in real life; if anything, I wished they had modified Spike's suit as well, because I don't think what they went with looked great on John Cho
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Dec 17, 2021 04:44
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| # ? May 29, 2024 01:19 |
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Shinji2015 posted:I'd push back against Faye's outfit, if only because I don't think there's any way her OG look would have worked in real life; if anything, I wished they had modified Spike's suit as well, because I don't think what they went with looked great on John Cho oh I agree her outfit needed to be changed for live action but just their general handling of the actress saying a pretty obvious thing like 'yea I couldn't, you know, kick and move in that outfit because I'm a human woman and not a cartoon' and tried to make it into some big 'WE'RE FIXING FAYE' thing just reeked of trying to bait idiots like The Quartering into having 20 minute meltdowns for ~engagement~ rather than anything genuine.
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Dec 17, 2021 04:49
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sexpig by night posted:oh I agree her outfit needed to be changed for live action but just their general handling of the actress saying a pretty obvious thing like 'yea I couldn't, you know, kick and move in that outfit because I'm a human woman and not a cartoon' and tried to make it into some big 'WE'RE FIXING FAYE' thing just reeked of trying to bait idiots like The Quartering into having 20 minute meltdowns for ~engagement~ rather than anything genuine. Oh, I wasn't aware that she said that, or that they did that. I just saw the new look, said, "yeah, that makes sense," and went on with my life. I agree with you on that part, then
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Dec 17, 2021 06:14
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What I think Sage is going to get at in his part two is that media doesn't really have to be profitable to actually make a profit anymore, so there's no real incentive to make a good product outside of personal passion. A brand is more important than an idea these days when your only goal is to convince investors to keep pumping money into your venture so that even a colossal financial failure gets recouped by the rest of the multimedia machine feeding off people's income.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:18
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Dias posted:The RE videos are good but I take issue with her saying RE4 has no inventory management when inventory tetris is a vital component of the game. There were a few things I noticed like that in the prior video, like I don't know how you can resist not remarking on the massive ancient Aztec ruins with mummy zombies apparently right below the surface of a quiet, quaint New England town. I'm also surprised they didn't touch on how Haunting Ground was another iteration of Resident Evil 4 that was spun off into its own game in the section about test versions of RE4.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:29
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sexpig by night posted:oh I agree her outfit needed to be changed for live action but just their general handling of the actress saying a pretty obvious thing like 'yea I couldn't, you know, kick and move in that outfit because I'm a human woman and not a cartoon' and tried to make it into some big 'WE'RE FIXING FAYE' thing just reeked of trying to bait idiots like The Quartering into having 20 minute meltdowns for ~engagement~ rather than anything genuine. What I took away from her responses was she was probably justifiably mad at the people who were bitching she wasn’t the Anime given flesh, so some snark is both understandable and fitting.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:40
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I didn't really get why they needed to retool Gren as extensively to the point of being an original character, and still call him Gren. The whole tragedy of the character was Vicious betraying him, which got him send to jail and pumped full of drugs that destroyed his hormonal balance and left his life a ruin until he eventually rebuild himself. It never really felt like he was meant to be a representation for anything other than "hey this Vicious guy might be a bit of an rear end in a top hat". But to be honest, there are a lot of choices in the Netflix series that I didn't get. Why the Vicious side-plot? Why have the banter make Spike seem like an absolute rear end in a top hat? Same with Faye for that matter. Archer666 fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 08:52
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Archer666 posted:I didn't really get why they needed to retool Gren as extensively to the point of being an original character, and still call him Gren. The whole tragedy of the character was Vicious betraying him, which got him send to jail and pumped full of drugs that destroyed his hormonal balance and left his life a ruin until he eventually rebuild himself. It never really felt like he was meant to be a representation for anything other than "hey this Vicious guy might be a bit of an rear end in a top hat". The Vicious thing read like production notes of "We need an overarching plot and a villain", and poor writing lead to Vicious getting bastardized from a cold calculating psychopath (who actually would work well as a counterbalance to a more over-the-top cast and writing as-presented, just for some proper "comedy stops, serious violence and consequences happen" moments) into this petulant little man-child who thinks he's cooler than he actually is and just sucks what fun there is in the show right out of it. The banter thing with Spike I kinda get, because you want your characters to come together gradually over the season so there's gotta be a little conflict built into that.
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Dec 17, 2021 09:22
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Honestly the results of the experiments done on Gren in the anime feel like intentional misdirection for the audience. You see Gren's true appearance and dialogue with Faye and think "oh, this guy wants revenge on Vicious for getting him experimented on." But no, that's the case at all: Gren has moved on from all that and built a comfortable life for himself. The thing that Gren absolutely cannot accept thought - and what ultimately gets him killed trying to deny - is the reality that the person he cared about more than anyone else did not actually care about him at all. Worse, they recognized and actively manipulated Gren's feelings to get a leg up without a second though. It is the betrayal itself that tears at Gren's soul; the actual results of that betrayal are little more than an afterthought to him.
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Dec 17, 2021 09:31
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Dawgstar posted:A person I follow on Twitter commented that one of N!Bebop's gravest sins was basically taking out all the class and political commentary in the original. The one that really sticks out is Jet leaves the police because of one dirty cop, not that the whole department was crooked like in the cartoon. The show makes it clear these freelance bounty hunters have a better moral code than the cops (that is to say 'any'). The showrunner explicitly says he didn't think the anime was dystopian which... sure, whatever, rich person. Where was this? Not that I disbelieve you. I guess I just want to despair some more.
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Dec 17, 2021 09:38
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Samovar posted:Where was this? Not that I disbelieve you. I guess I just want to despair some more.
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Dec 17, 2021 09:39
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sexpig by night posted:oh I agree her outfit needed to be changed for live action but just their general handling of the actress saying a pretty obvious thing like 'yea I couldn't, you know, kick and move in that outfit because I'm a human woman and not a cartoon' and tried to make it into some big 'WE'RE FIXING FAYE' thing just reeked of trying to bait idiots like The Quartering into having 20 minute meltdowns for ~engagement~ rather than anything genuine. Yea it definitely came off as really artificial. Obviously there were people out there that would shout and get mad about it but also it's the internet, you can find people that will shout and get mad about anything imaginable such as changing some really minor details on Sonic's gloves. It doesn't mean anything on its own.
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Dec 17, 2021 12:09
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The actress herself did get a lot of crap from people, even cosplay types who were like 'um, I move in my exceedingly accurate version just fine' (under carefully controlled conditions) and were trying to shame her for not having Faye's measurements.
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Dec 17, 2021 14:21
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Her response video had so much Faye energy I honestly thought she was making a bit out of it and doing a little character preview. The fact they took that and then ended up writing...whatever the gently caress Faye was supposed to be in the show should be a crime.
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Dec 17, 2021 14:57
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Welcome to the ouch, motherfuckers. This is a thing that the Netflix Faye says.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:01
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i overlooked jupiter jazz when i was into the show as a kid and that two-parter's portrayal of faye throws the netflix version into even starker relief she ditches the crew and robs them to go to a town with no women and flaunt herself in a public space, which at first makes her look suicidally dumb, except them it turns out she was planning to lure out all her would-be paramours and beat the tar out of them, which is less dumb but still dangerously overconfident, and when gren rescues her (in a totally unasked-for moment of chivalry) she waxes on about she doesn't need anyone to help her and it becomes clear that all her actions thus far have been her spiraling after getting a taste of actual camaraderie from the bebop's crew. gren's apartment is the first time in the show where she doesn't have anyone to perform for, and she's exhausted underneath it all with all the cast members, the netflix writing does so much less with so much more
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Dec 17, 2021 15:47
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Don't forget the big reveal of her past makes zero sense in the context of the Netflix show, because the era's pushed forward to the late 2100's instead of 2070-ish and they just cut-and-pasted it straight in from the original. It made sense given the relative timeline of the original show that MAYBE videotapes were still around at the time Faye got put on ice, but not relative to when she gets defrosted in the Netflix show. Nevermind them just HAVING a VHS player on the ship. A better modern take might be maybe Having to hunt down an "old" modern-day computer, because it's the only thing that'll connect to a USB drive or something.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:55
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Another big, overarching thing about the original series that the Netflix adaptation just didn't seem to get was that it trusted the viewers to interpret and put things together for themselves. One of the narrative choices from the original I appreciated the most was how it presented Spike's backstory with Vicious and Julia to us - while a lot is implied or referred to, the audience is only ever shown dialogue-free snippets of Spike's time with the syndicate, mostly during the montage that plays during the Green Bird sequence, and the audience is left to piece together the details for themselves. It's a type of storytelling I really like because it shows faith in the audience to put things together for themselves without the work having to hold their hand through it, and it's something I don't think the Netflix series would have the confidence to do.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:44
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Cowboy Bebob isn’t a dystopia because the average day-to-day shittiness isn’t that much greater than modern day shittiness?  Unless you’re one of the poor suckers stuck in Earth:
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Dec 17, 2021 16:54
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Despite all these valid criticisms, I still kinda enjoyed it. If they went out there way to do something different instead of being slavish to the look of the source material, I think they could have had a pretty alright show. Forge its own identity instead of trying to be a, well, cheap knockoff of the original. The worst thing I can say about it that hasn't been already said is that I got the impression that the showrunners thought they could do better than the original. They should have just took that world and characters and did their own thing. It still wouldn't have been Bebop, but at least it could stand on its own rather than purely copying the style sans the substance of the anime. A shame they couldn't just finish what they started. Since Netflix promoted the show hard enough, I figured they were good for at least two seasons.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQvk5QpHD2Q Yay a Homeworld video from Mandalore.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:05
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Dr Christmas posted:Cowboy Bebob isn’t a dystopia because the average day-to-day shittiness isn’t that much greater than modern day shittiness? bad news about average day to day shittiness
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Dec 17, 2021 17:43
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FreezingInferno posted:Welcome to the ouch, motherfuckers. It's been talked about a lot but the one that still rings out for is the lady responding to Jet asking if this is blackmail with "You're drat right it is because, Jet, you are Black and are male." Somebody in front of God and everyone decided that was a line okay to be said to human ears.
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Dec 17, 2021 20:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ONhwAD87A Princess Weekes on why Persephone and Hades has become a popular thing lately Kind of got caught up in it from playing Hades and then reading Lore Olympus this year
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Dec 17, 2021 21:07
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sexpig by night posted:Gren stuff On top of everything else about Gren, apparently adding them to the first season was a last-minute revision, which now has the double punch of it being even more of a transparently cynical publicity stunt and Gren just sits around being the Pet Gay the whole time because they didn't write the scripts with them in mind. And now the show is cancelled so we won't get to see them actually do anything that matters, either. Arc Hammer posted:What I think Sage is going to get at in his part two is that media doesn't really have to be profitable to actually make a profit anymore, so there's no real incentive to make a good product outside of personal passion. A brand is more important than an idea these days when your only goal is to convince investors to keep pumping money into your venture so that even a colossal financial failure gets recouped by the rest of the multimedia machine feeding off people's income. I think there's a drive to make things as generically palatable as possible. Maybe not good, but you need to make it safe enough to avoid any big outcry. Bebop was saddled with the twin problems of writers and showrunners who both didn't GET the show on a fundamental level, and who are also apparently just mind-numbingly bland sorta lefties who couldn't engage with how to "adapt" or "update" something on anything but the shallowest surface level. Effectively kicking the legs out from under the show and sending it tumbling backwards in to the pee-soaked Dashcon ball pit.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:11
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I honestly enjoyed watching it despite how terrible it was, though I agree there's a lot of poo poo they could've done better and just didn't for whatever reason. Gren and Ana are apparently almost entirely divorced from their OG counterparts but were maybe my favorite "new" characters as a result, Ana especially. Bennett does mention her in his (woefully brief, lmao) section on the positives of the show and I do think that's warranted, I really could watch her actress do just about anything and be entertained Gren just felt like a cool non binary person, I didn't get anything problematic from them at all just taking the show at face value. Granted I have not seen the original in nearly two decades and according to what I'm seeing in thread there's a lot of missing context that they just don't bother to go into. Although it's hard to say how much of that was a conscious decision to just build the character from the ground up or whether it was done out of ignorance. I assume the former, since that's apparently what they went for with Vicious and Julia to, uh, mixed results, to put it diplomatically In retrospect the thing that bugged me the most wasn't really any of the plot changes or b-movie dialogue but the wigs. You'd think Netflix could afford some decent lace fronts
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Dec 17, 2021 21:22
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RareAcumen posted:Do doujins have to be like a specific amount of content or does it include basically anything? I know people make like, their own Touhou games and stuff and I think but I'm not sure that people make their own endings to some manga too sometimes. I'm mostly just asking if single piece of fan art counts as doujin too. a single illustration wouldn't be but an artbook of multiple illustrations would.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:28
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Dawgstar posted:It's been talked about a lot but the one that still rings out for is the lady responding to Jet asking if this is blackmail with "You're drat right it is because, Jet, you are Black and are male." Somebody in front of God and everyone decided that was a line okay to be said to human ears.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:33
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Words cannot describe how much I loving loathe Joss Whedon and what he did to TV dialogue writing.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:39
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i didnt watch it and i didnt have any emotional involvement in the series but in the previews all of their clothes look like they're fresh off a rack and that bothered me. thats my critique
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Dec 17, 2021 22:06
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fun hater posted:i didnt watch it and i didnt have any emotional involvement in the series but in the previews all of their clothes look like they're fresh off a rack and that bothered me. thats my critique 
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Dec 17, 2021 22:23
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The United States posted:I'll get you next time harry potter! "You should see yourself, do you have any idea what you look like right at this moment?"
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Dec 17, 2021 22:26
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Why is his head so big. It honestly felt like there was some uncanny cgi going on to make it look like he had no neck and a giant head. A live action Mr. Mackie.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:26
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The United States posted:I'll get you next time harry potter! with how main characters remained intact but with a bit of whedony/marvel smartass bullshit in dialogue this reinterpretation is just bizzare why??
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Dec 17, 2021 22:33
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Again, the wigs were so terrible and I just don't understand. It was maybe passable on him when they tied it back during the flashback episode but even still! They really just went to a Spirit Halloween for him and Julia and called it good
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Dec 17, 2021 22:45
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The United States posted:I'll get you next time harry potter! They were re-imagining parts of the OG series to make it work in live action already, so why did they stick so closely to the original design when it just looks bad in live action? There's thousands of threatening mobsters to draw inspiration from, it can't be that hard to make it work.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:14
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Arc Hammer posted:Why is his head so big. It honestly felt like there was some uncanny cgi going on to make it look like he had no neck and a giant head. A live action Mr. Mackie. funko pop man
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Dec 17, 2021 23:26
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Oxxidation posted:funko pop man Why is his head so big... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ssNMVSGrM I figured it out. This is who he reminds me of: 
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Dec 17, 2021 23:48
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Blood Nightmaster posted:Again, the wigs were so terrible and I just don't understand. It was maybe passable on him when they tied it back during the flashback episode but even still! They really just went to a Spirit Halloween for him and Julia and called it good I've noticed that it seems like in most shows the wigs are always the costuming weak link. Are they that hard/expensive to get right? I genuinely don't know, but even movies with millions of dollars in the budget can't seem to do it right like Fan4stic. (It's also quite likely they don't care, but my optimism bubbles up like a fountain.)
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Dec 18, 2021 00:25
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They could have just hired a guy with blond hair instead of using a bad white wig. Or did they also think Spike's hair should be green and Jet has grey alien skin.
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Dec 18, 2021 00:54
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