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god & miro vs the black sacrament. the black sacrament is the name of the stable i don't remember so i put in different words, but it's going to be malakai, brody somethingmore, and others
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Dec 16, 2021 17:28
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I Before E posted:I want The Redeemer to have a face run. "Vengeance is mine", saith the Lord, and Miro is the guy he sent to dispense it. 
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Dec 16, 2021 18:35
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Adam Cole kinkshames Shawn Spears for being a chair pervert and MJF comes to his defense.
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Dec 16, 2021 18:35
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Has there been a Dynamite without CM Punk since he returned?
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Dec 17, 2021 05:58
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Does a draw count as a successful title defence? He's still got the title, and he didn't lose the match. I need to know for statistical purposes.
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Dec 17, 2021 11:52
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Saul Goode posted:Does a draw count as a successful title defence? He's still got the title, and he didn't lose the match. I need to know for statistical purposes. Yes. Okada's defence record includes the draw with Kenny.
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Dec 17, 2021 11:56
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Thank you!
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Dec 17, 2021 12:11
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Random thought while watching Dynamite (can't even remember which match now): if someone's in a submission hold and grabs the ropes, if they tap within the five seconds the ref is counting before the hold has to be released, does it count? If so, what's the (kayfabe and storytelling) reasoning for bothering with the count and not requiring immediate release? I suppose grabbing the rope isn't an achievement enough to warrant the person applying the hold having to break it, and the person in the hold has to do a little more to 'earn' it?
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Dec 17, 2021 12:15
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Answers Me posted:Random thought while watching Dynamite (can't even remember which match now): if someone's in a submission hold and grabs the ropes, if they tap within the five seconds the ref is counting before the hold has to be released, does it count? If so, what's the (kayfabe and storytelling) reasoning for bothering with the count and not requiring immediate release? I suppose grabbing the rope isn't an achievement enough to warrant the person applying the hold having to break it, and the person in the hold has to do a little more to 'earn' it? The five counts does 2 things in kayfabe: 1. Notifies the person putting on the hold that the rope has been touched 2. Acts as the usual you have 5 seconds to comply and reset before a DQ (in and out of kayfabe I'm not sure how you can expect anything other than instant DQ if you don't have a 3 or 5 count because there's a reaction time).
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Dec 17, 2021 12:23
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Saul Goode posted:Does a draw count as a successful title defence? He's still got the title, and he didn't lose the match. I need to know for statistical purposes. It's like Ric Flair said: "to be the Champion you gotta beat the champ WOOOOOOO"
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Dec 17, 2021 12:29
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Did Bryan Danielson have a 5 star match on WWE? I know Meltzer never went there, but I’m more interested in if there were any matches that arguably were. What is Booker T’s best match? For a guy who had a fairly good rep as a worker during his day I can’t recall any 4 star+ matches.
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Dec 18, 2021 03:11
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Did Bryan Danielson have a 5 star match on WWE? I know Meltzer never went there, but I’m more interested in if there were any matches that arguably were. Some people said it about Bryan vs Cena from 2013 & Bryan vs Punk from 2012. And there was an AJ match on Smackdown last June which people regarded highly, but whether anyone has it at ***** I can't say
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Dec 18, 2021 03:17
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Chris Benoit and Booker T had some great matches in WCW. For WWE there was the 2006 GAB against Rey Mysterio.
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Dec 18, 2021 03:21
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Did Bryan Danielson have a 5 star match on WWE? I know Meltzer never went there, but I’m more interested in if there were any matches that arguably were. No, and in fact, Dragons first fiver was with Kenneth Aloysius Omega. I'm one of the folks who think his Fight Without Honor with Morishina shoulda gotten 5, as should the unification match with Nigel. Booker's best rated match in WWE that I can find is Survivor Series 2001, a 10 man tag between the Alliance and WWE, it got ****1/2. His best WCW match as a singles was a Benoit match ***1/2 from a Nitro. The thing about Book is he spent his athletic peak carrying Stevie Ray as a tag team. A lot of his matches as a singles were good, but not great. Benoit and him had good chemistry but didn't always get time. And WCW weren't interested in pushing Booker until they had to.
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Dec 18, 2021 03:26
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Brian Danielson suffered from Dave giving nothing in the US 5* in the aughts then suffering through WWE in the 10s so despite being the best wrestler on the planet he never got the snowflakes. In 4 months in AEW he has 2.
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Dec 18, 2021 04:54
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ChrisBTY posted:Brian Danielson suffered from Dave giving nothing in the US 5* in the aughts More than half of the five star matches Dave gave in the 00s happened in the US, Danielson just wasn't positioned on the level of someone like Samoa Joe at the time
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Dec 18, 2021 05:02
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ChrisBTY posted:Brian Danielson suffered from Dave giving nothing in the US 5* in the aughts then suffering through WWE in the 10s so despite being the best wrestler on the planet he never got the snowflakes. Samoa Joe got two five star matches within a month of each other in the aughts. It's not Dave's fault Bryan had to come to AEW to learn to work.
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Dec 18, 2021 05:02
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ChrisBTY posted:Brian Danielson suffered from Dave giving nothing in the US 5* in the aughts then suffering through WWE in the 10s so despite being the best wrestler on the planet he never got the snowflakes.
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Dec 18, 2021 05:05
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Weird. I could have sworn most of the snowflakes moved to Japan in the 00s. Alas. I was wrong.
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Dec 18, 2021 05:06
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nobody was getting buried in snowflakes in the 00s, it was the dead age of wrestling
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Dec 18, 2021 05:07
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ChrisBTY posted:Weird. I could have sworn most of the snowflakes moved to Japan in the 00s. Alas. I was wrong. in the 2010s, WWE fans used to get mad because after Punk/Cena, and Richards/Elgin the only five star matches were in Japan or Meltzer's home promotion PWG. This was clearly due to the bias of things from Japan, or it being his home promotion featuring wrestlers with moves named after him. In hindsight, it was probably that the PWG matches featured great talent, 90% of which would end up in WWE anyway, and NJPW was going through a golden era.
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Dec 18, 2021 06:59
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Of course WWE didn't get any 5* matches. Even at their best nobody in WWE was at their best because the 'house' style is a limiter on the truly excellent. And their stories were such garbage it was impossible to develop a sincere excitement or rooting interest (with a few exceptions).
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Dec 18, 2021 07:27
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Between December 2000 and March 2006, only six matches were rated five stars or higher by Meltzer. After that he didn't hand out another one until July 2011, to Cena and Punk at Money in the Bank. The WWE itself wouldn't get another five-star until NXT Takeover Philly in 2018. Yeesh.
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Dec 18, 2021 09:21
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ChrisBTY posted:Of course WWE didn't get any 5* matches. Even at their best nobody in WWE was at their best because the 'house' style is a limiter on the truly excellent. And their stories were such garbage it was impossible to develop a sincere excitement or rooting interest (with a few exceptions). They got a few, obviously Punk/Cena is the standout, but yeah. Danielson in WWE just never got that perfect mix of a great match AND a great story payoff/resolution, like his match winning the belt from Cena came close but was likely harmed by them instantly giving it to Orton for HEAT.
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Dec 18, 2021 09:35
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Danielson should have got 5* for Unified 06 but it was after Kobashi was diagnosed with cancer and Meltz stopped giving fivers out of respect
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Dec 18, 2021 09:39
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How many five star matches has WWE had? I feel like AEW is going to blow them out of the water. If they haven't already.
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Dec 18, 2021 11:01
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Open Marriage Night posted:How many five star matches has WWE had? I feel like AEW is going to blow them out of the water. If they haven't already. Including NXT WWE has gotten 14 *****+ matches from Meltzer. 7 of those are from NXT & 2 from NXTUK. AEW has 12. (Then again, David didn't give Bret Owen ***** so he's a fool)
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Dec 18, 2021 11:25
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Even aside from the limitations of the WWE style, the production values surely makes it impossible to give a match five stars. The camera cuts make it impossible to tell what’s going on.
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Dec 18, 2021 13:17
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Answers Me posted:Even aside from the limitations of the WWE style, the production values surely makes it impossible to give a match five stars. The camera cuts make it impossible to tell what’s going on. Walter vs Ilja was in August (I didn't give it ***** but Dave did. Well, *****1/4)
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Dec 18, 2021 13:30
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forkboy84 posted:(Then again, David didn't give Bret Owen ***** so he's a fool) Other WWE quarter snowflake lackers: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty @ Raw 1993 HBK vs Razor ladder match @ Summerslam 1994 HBK vs Mankind @ Mind Games 1996 Benoit vs. Jericho ladder match @ Royal Rumble 2001 Austin vs. HHH 3 Stages of Hell @ No Way Out 2001 TLC 2 @ Wrestlemania X-7 Benoit/Jericho vs. Austin/HHH vs. HHH's Quad @ Raw 2001 TLC 3 @ Smackdown 2001 Angle/Benoit vs. Edge/Mysterio @ No Mercy 2002 Angle vs. Benoit @ Royal Rumble 2003 Benoit vs. HHH vs HBK @ Wrestlemania XX Angle vs HBK @ Wrestlemania 21 Undertaker vs. HBK @ Wrestlemania 25 Undertaker vs. HBK @ Wrestlemania 26 Undertaker vs. HHH @ Wrestlemania 28 Lesnar vs. Rollins vs. Cena @ Royal Rumble 2015 AJ Styles vs. John Cena @ Royal Rumble 2017 Lesnar vs. Strowman vs. Samoa Joe vs. Reigns @ Summerslam 2017 Becky vs. Charlotte @ Evolution AJ Styles vs. Bryan @ TLC 2018 AJ Styles vs. Bryan @ Smackdown 2020 And from NXT: Neville vs. Sami Zayn @ NXT Takeover R Evolution Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne @ NXT Takeover Chicago 2017 Gargano vs. Black @ NXT Takeover Wargames 2018 Ciampa vs. Velveteen Dream @ NXT Takeover Wargames 2018 Gargano vs. Ricochet @ NXT Takeover Phoenix 2019 Dunne vs. WALTER @ NXT Takeover Brooklyn 2019 Fish/O'Reilly vs. Dunne/RIddle @ NXT Takeover Portland 2019 Cole vs. Ciampa @ NXT Takeover Portland 2019 Undisputed Era vs. Pat McAfee and Company @ NXT Wargames 2020 Gargano vs. Kushida @ NXT Vengeance Day 2021
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Dec 18, 2021 14:18
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:Chris Benoit and Booker T had some great matches in WCW. For WWE there was the 2006 GAB against Rey Mysterio. the Booker/Lashley/Batista/Finley four-way at No Mercy '06 is pretty great for a nothing-happening PPV.
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Dec 18, 2021 15:44
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CopywrightMMXI posted:What is Booker T’s best match? For a guy who had a fairly good rep as a worker during his day I can’t recall any 4 star+ matches. I don't know how it holds up, but he had a Smackdown match around 2010 with Cody Rhodes that I really dug, partially due to the story they were telling with it. The idea was that their different ages put them on the same level in opposite ways. Cody was young and had stamina, but he lacked the experience to know how to handle a match that went on longer. Booker, on the other hand, had the experience to survive a longer match, but was physically limited from being older.
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Dec 18, 2021 16:11
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D.N. Nation posted:the Booker/Lashley/Batista/Finley four-way at No Mercy '06 is pretty great for a nothing-happening PPV. Was that show were half the card was rearranged the day before the show because half the card had elevated liver enzymes? I know it was around that time period.
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Dec 18, 2021 22:53
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TL posted:Was that show were half the card was rearranged the day before the show because half the card had elevated liver enzymes? I know it was around that time period. no that was Great American Bash 06
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Dec 18, 2021 22:54
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TL posted:Was that show were half the card was rearranged the day before the show because half the card had elevated liver enzymes? I know it was around that time period. What's elevated liver enzymes indicative of? Some sort of blood transmitted disease?
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Dec 18, 2021 23:00
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Booker T's best matches were all with Benoit, although he also had another great one with Bret in that brief time in late 99 when Bret was really feeling it in WCW.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:06
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Did Bryan Danielson have a 5 star match on WWE? I know Meltzer never went there, but I’m more interested in if there were any matches that arguably were. Nope. The 30-minute draw against Omega earlier this year was his first 5-star match. Him missing out on the accolade up until this point is a case where Meltzer is just plain wrong. Even in the WWE, he had a few matches that absolutely should qualify (the 6-man Team Hell No/Ryback vs Shield match at TLC 2012 and his match against BIG MATCH JOHN at SummerSlam 2013 should absolutely be re-evaluated, for example). It's also absolutely criminal that his match against Nigel McGuinness in 2006, back when he was RoH champion, didn't get the full 5. Alaois posted:no that was Great American Bash 06 At least we got a really good Regal vs Finlay match out of it. Defenestrategy posted:What's elevated liver enzymes indicative of? Some sort of blood transmitted disease? Steroids or HGH or something along those lines, IIRC. edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 23:11
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edogawa rando posted:Nope. The 30-minute draw against Omega earlier this year was his first 5-star match. Him missing out on the accolade up until this point is a case where Meltzer is just plain wrong. Even in the WWE, he had a few matches that absolutely should qualify (the 6-man Team Hell No/Ryback vs Shield match at TLC 2012 and his match against BIG MATCH JOHN at SummerSlam 2013 should absolutely be re-evaluated, for example). Dave didn't watch every RoH show, and he had this weird thing that if he waited too long he wouldn't go back and watch something that didn't line up with some arbitrary time frame that only Dave understood in his own brain. I know he didn't see or rate one of the Nigel matches, and another one he wouldn't give the full five because of the dumb poo poo Nigel did with slamming his forehead into things full force unprotected. Time kind of vindicated Dave on that what with Nigel turning his brain to mush well before anyone else in RoH and also what went down with Shibata.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:44
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D.N. Nation posted:Heel Jungle Boy would be.....well, it'd be a thing. https://youtu.be/OeUvAVl-NFE
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Dec 19, 2021 00:11
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Big Bidness posted:Dave didn't watch every RoH show, and he had this weird thing that if he waited too long he wouldn't go back and watch something that didn't line up with some arbitrary time frame that only Dave understood in his own brain. I know he didn't see or rate one of the Nigel matches, and another one he wouldn't give the full five because of the dumb poo poo Nigel did with slamming his forehead into things full force unprotected. Time kind of vindicated Dave on that what with Nigel turning his brain to mush well before anyone else in RoH and also what went down with Shibata. He rated the three Nigel/Danielson matches that have the best arguments for five stars and basically every Danielson match in ROH I would argue is five stars other than the final match with Morishima. He underrated some, overrated some, it's fine.
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Dec 19, 2021 01:10
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