Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

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Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

spectralent posted:

What referee'd games would you recommend, Cessna? I've basically never touched any. All my historicals gameplay's always been of the "bring what you've got to club" sorts, even where they were prearranged.

With the right people you can make any game a refereed / limited intel game.

One of the best wargames I've ever played was at a convention in San Francisco in the late 90s. Each player was given a platoon of troops - 20mm miniatures - and assigned to a section of a terrain map covered with little trees, huts, etc. There were about six players and three refs.

As soon as the players came into the room and had a quick look at the table the referees handed each player a kid's walkie-talkie and a flashlight. Then they turned out the lights, so the only light was through the door or from the flashlights. They also turned on a portable radio playing loud music from the era, like Jimi Hendrix.

They explained that each player had to move his models on the terrain table and give any orders - requests for air support or artillery - through the walkie-talkies. They could only talk to other players without the walkie-talkies if their squads were next to each other on the table.

Each turn the players were given a limited amount of time to move their soldiers and designate their targets ("I'm moving this squad here and shooting over there"). Then their moves were then told by the referees to the "main referee" who interpreted their actions and the results by way of playing a conventional hex-and-counter wargame in the other room. The results were figured out, then passed along, back to the players.

It worked beautifully. Orders were screwed up, helicopters landed troops in the wrong places, mortars hit empty jungle. The referees did a great job.

Best of all, this being a convention, other people were always wandering in and out of the room, asking things like "What are you playing" and "what're your guys doing?" It wasn't until after the game ended that it was revealed that some of the spectators were, in fact, the Viet Cong players.

I know every game can't be like this, but I think with a but of creativity and a referee you can make any tabletop game into something different and increase immersion. There are examples of this sort of thing throughout old-school wargaming. For one example the old Fred T Jane Naval Wargame - published in 1898 - advocated raising the table the game was played on to eye level or making the players play seated at a raised table so they couldn't get a "top down" look at enemy ship formations and cotton-ball smoke would really screen movements.

Again, this isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't advocate that every game be played like this. But when it works it's a really engaging experience.

Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Dec 17, 2021

# ? Dec 16, 2021 17:10

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# ? May 10, 2024 05:18

Fashionable Jorts: Jan 18, 2010; Maybe if I'm busy it could keep me from you

Cessna posted:

Again, this isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't advocate that every game be played like this. But when it works it's a really engaging experience.

That sounds like it was a blast. Reminds me of reading about war games of old (like, the Prussians developing military strategy old), where the commander would just look at a map and write a letter of his orders, and hand it to people in another room to execute the actual game part.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 17:19

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I've been told of a Command and Colours team game played by having the supreme commanders stand at opposite ends of a long room on a chair with a small telescope to observe the board in the middle, and hand cards to a runner who had to remember which field commander to give them to and what was expected of them. I wish I didn't miss that convention.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 17:27

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Arquinsiel posted:

I've been told of a Command and Colours team game played by having the supreme commanders stand at opposite ends of a long room on a chair with a small telescope to observe the board in the middle, and hand cards to a runner who had to remember which field commander to give them to and what was expected of them. I wish I didn't miss that convention.

I can totally see a team setup where an overall commander gets to write down orders each turn and hand them on a paper to a second team member. That member can read the order once, put down the paper, and then relay the orders (in their own... interpretation) to a third team member. That team member then moves the units, again in the way they decide to interpret the orders.

Watch hilarity and temper tantrums ensue.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 20:03

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

Historical adjacent post:

For Xmas I built and painted a Dracula's America gang for my friend who wargames with us, but doesn't like the modeling aspect of it.

Pretty happy with how it came out. His gang is the Dark Confederacy, a group of die hard Confederados trying to make the South literally rise again using necromancy.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 22:49

lenoon: Jan 7, 2010

These game setups sound absolutely loving amazing. I wonder if people at the club would be up for something similar for �English civil war megabattle 2: this time Charles you�re going to really get it in the neck� later on this year.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 23:43

Major Isoor: Mar 23, 2011

Cessna posted:

Best of all, this being a convention, other people were always wandering in and out of the room, asking things like "What are you playing" and "what're your guys doing?" It wasn't until after the game ended that it was revealed that some of the spectators were, in fact, the Viet Cong players.

hehehe I immediately knew what was coming the moment you started this paragraph, and it's beautiful!

I'd love to try something like that

# ? Dec 17, 2021 00:08

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Grey Hunter ran a couple of WW1 games, meeting engagements with a corps commander and 3 divisional commanders each with 3-4 brigadiers under them. Orders were interpreted downwards and intel was interpreted upwards. Both games turned into the kind of messy, clumsy, occasionally glorious but more often murderous engagement from the actual 1914. I'd swear you could sneak an AAR of either game into a history book, or use the setup as a teaching exercise at a real war college.

I can't find the threads for either game.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 00:54

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

lenoon posted:

These game setups sound absolutely loving amazing. I wonder if people at the club would be up for something similar for �English civil war megabattle 2: this time Charles you�re going to really get it in the neck� later on this year.

I would soooooooooo play this. I have a bunch of Covenanters who are looking for a fight.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 01:35

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

mllaneza posted:

Grey Hunter ran a couple of WW1 games, meeting engagements with a corps commander and 3 divisional commanders each with 3-4 brigadiers under them. Orders were interpreted downwards and intel was interpreted upwards. Both games turned into the kind of messy, clumsy, occasionally glorious but more often murderous engagement from the actual 1914. I'd swear you could sneak an AAR of either game into a history book, or use the setup as a teaching exercise at a real war college.

I can't find the threads for either game.

I can only find the Entente thread for Grey Hunter's game, but here is the general thread for Trin Tragula's resurrection of it. They were extremely fun games, and I found myself accidentally in command of a Brigade half-way through the last game when someone vanished unexpectedly.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 15:17

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Cessna posted:

With the right people you can make any game a refereed / limited intel game.

One of the best wargames I've ever played was at a convention in San Francisco in the late 90s. Each player was given a platoon of troops - 20mm miniatures - and assigned to a section of a terrain map covered with little trees, huts, etc. There were about six players and three refs.

As soon as the players came into the room and had a quick look at the table the referees handed each player a kid's walkie-talkie and a flashlight. Then they turned out the lights, so the only light was through the door or from the flashlights. They also turned on a portable radio playing loud music from the era, like Jimi Hendrix.

They explained that each player had to move his models on the terrain table and give any orders - requests for air support or artillery - through the walkie-talkies. They could only talk to other players without the walkie-talkies if their squads were next to each other on the table.

Each turn the players were given a limited amount of time to move their soldiers and designate their targets ("I'm moving this squad here and shooting over there"). Then their moves were then told by the referees to the "main referee" who interpreted their actions and the results by way of playing a conventional hex-and-counter wargame in the other room. The results were figured out, then passed along, back to the players.

It worked beautifully. Orders were screwed up, helicopters landed troops in the wrong places, mortars hit empty jungle. The referees did a great job.

Best of all, this being a convention, other people were always wandering in and out of the room, asking things like "What are you playing" and "what're your guys doing?" It wasn't until after the game ended that it was revealed that some of the spectators were, in fact, the Viet Cong players.

I know every game can't be like this, but I think with a but of creativity and a referee you can make any tabletop game into something different and increase immersion. There are examples of this sort of thing throughout old-school wargaming. For one example the old Fred T Jane Naval Wargame - published in 1898 - advocated raising the table the game was played on to eye level or making the players play seated at a raised table so they couldn't get a "top down" look at enemy ship formations and cotton-ball smoke would really screen movements.

Again, this isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't advocate that every game be played like this. But when it works it's a really engaging experience.

God, that sounds amazing. What was the underlying ruleset?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 02:33

Grey Hunter: Oct 17, 2007; Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

mllaneza posted:

Grey Hunter ran a couple of WW1 games, meeting engagements with a corps commander and 3 divisional commanders each with 3-4 brigadiers under them. Orders were interpreted downwards and intel was interpreted upwards. Both games turned into the kind of messy, clumsy, occasionally glorious but more often murderous engagement from the actual 1914. I'd swear you could sneak an AAR of either game into a history book, or use the setup as a teaching exercise at a real war college.

I can't find the threads for either game.

General thread
Entente Thread
German Thread

I want to use black powder to do a large scale battle including the day before scouting and aiming to get the best position - I tried it once before, but I made the start take to long and people dropped out before we really got started - I've got a few ideas to speed things up next time I try!

I just need some free time.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 05:39

lenoon: Jan 7, 2010

Arquinsiel posted:

I can only find the Entente thread for Grey Hunter's game, but here is the general thread for Trin Tragula's resurrection of it. They were extremely fun games, and I found myself accidentally in command of a Brigade half-way through the last game when someone vanished unexpectedly.

I had great fun in Trin�s thread until I got a really good artillery shot off and then received loads of upsetting and harassing PMs about cheating that pushed me off the forums for like a year. The whole thing really spoiled play by posts for me.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 09:26

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

That's both lovely behaviour and stupid of whoever accused you of it. The way that game ran there was no guarantee that the person giving the orders was even the one who wanted to do the thing they were doing and anyone reading it who didn't realise that was failing to understand the game.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 15:28

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Major Isoor posted:

Speaking of all the uniform chat recently, can anyone say what colour(s) were worn by Italian tank crews in WW2, preferably in the Italian theatre? (Or at least not Africa. Since it's to go alongside my Alpini)
All I can find are pics of a tanker wearing a blue suit (no idea what period/theatre this is for, or even if it's for an Italian tanker) and references to tan uniforms in Africa, which aren't super helpful to me. I'm not overly concerned about 100% accuracy, but I figure I should probably try to be roughly in the ballpark, if I can help it!

Osprey is surprisingly lacking in thorough definitions and examples of crew uniforms, with no actual space given to that branch in the 5 or so books I checked. The only thing to note was that Anti-Tank units had the option to use tanker or infantry uniforms, but it didn't state if that option existed for certain other branches, and I didn't see anything to really explain the light blue seen above.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 18:31

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

I've been busy painting up some 28mm Duchy of Warsaw from Murawski Miniatures. Partly because I was almost about to order a few battalions of Bavarians, and I realized that no, that'd be stupid of me when I have like six unpainted battalions of very nicely sculped Poles in my cupboard (yes there's at least one more Vistula Legion battalion in there as well). So the idea is to make a Lasalle 2 brigade (2-6 battalions) of DoW line infantry. I'm painting them mostly in the more colourful 1809 uniform, simply because it's a more interesting uniform and doesn't look almost the same as the French.

These first two battalions, from the 2nd and 8th line regiments, still lack their sixth base because painting the drummers, officers and NCOs has required a good deal of research mixed with guesswork, I plan to finish them after Christmas and start churning out more Poles after that.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 23:17

Major Isoor: Mar 23, 2011

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Osprey is surprisingly lacking in thorough definitions and examples of crew uniforms, with no actual space given to that branch in the 5 or so books I checked. The only thing to note was that Anti-Tank units had the option to use tanker or infantry uniforms, but it didn't state if that option existed for certain other branches, and I didn't see anything to really explain the light blue seen above.

Huh, interesting! So a fair few options then, seems like. Hmm, I'll have to think about which one I prefer. Thanks for that!

# ? Dec 20, 2021 04:46

SERPUS: Mar 20, 2004

I played an 8-player game of Sails of Glory over the weekend. Each person controlled one ship. The scenario was for a flotilla of four French ships (two ships of the line and two frigates) to break through a British blockade of four ships of the line and some hellacious island/reef terrain. Great fun. It took us about 3 hours to resolve the scenario, with one French ship of the line able to break through and sail for the open Caribbean. We spent the remainder of our time furballing in the middle of the terrain. Would play again.

# ? Dec 20, 2021 13:59

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

I painted my first 3D printed tank! This is a 1:56 scale T-37A from the Night Sky Miniatures Unknown Tanker series. I definitely hosed up a whole bunch printing it (the hull was the only part that came out on the first try), but for a first model it looks pretty alright. The detail in the render is great, it could easily be scaled up to 1:48 or even higher.

# ? Dec 21, 2021 23:09

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

Looks great. I backed that kickstarter too, but haven't printed anything yet.

# ? Dec 21, 2021 23:38

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Chain of Command question

Playing Blitzkrieg 1940

My buddy takes Assault Pioneers, which have 3 pioneer teams per squad. As support option, he takes 3 Kubelwagens.

Is it possible to:
Use a Command Dice roll of 1 to chuck one of the teams into the otherwise-devoid-of-Nazis kubelwagen and for it to deploy like a car (at the edge rather a JO point)
Use a Command Dice roll of 2 to chuck one of the teams and the sarge into a kubelwage and deploy it like a car, but without any command innitiatives since you're not using a 3?

I'm not sure if you can split off teams from squads in non-Ambush deployment, at which case the question arises: how do you crew all those empty cars you can take?

# ? Dec 24, 2021 13:51

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

This is the season for my Christmas present:

Anyone had any experience using it?

# ? Dec 25, 2021 07:19

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004; Can't post for 18 days!

Got a historical wargaming Christmas present as well:

Time to break out the plastic cement and round up a posse of some of the meanest hombres from the Old West :clint:

# ? Dec 25, 2021 17:10

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

My girlfriend got me this motherfucker for christmas. I've never done a non-wargame model tank before but I'm excited. Early french tanks are the most beautiful to ever exist.

Look at this fuckin land boat.

# ? Dec 28, 2021 16:01

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

In 1/35th scale that's going to be one hell of a model.

# ? Dec 28, 2021 17:39

Fashionable Jorts: Jan 18, 2010; Maybe if I'm busy it could keep me from you

Just under a foot long if I did my math right. Wow.

# ? Dec 28, 2021 17:49

Robert Facepalmer: Jan 10, 2019

Cement-free workable tracks are easy to assemble!

At least the hull and turret are one piece to make up for the tracks and the million road wheels.

Godspeed fellow goon!

# ? Dec 28, 2021 17:52

Zuul the Cat: Dec 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

My girlfriend got me this motherfucker for christmas. I've never done a non-wargame model tank before but I'm excited. Early french tanks are the most beautiful to ever exist.

Look at this fuckin land boat.

It's a rad tank! I got one for my early war French Bolt Action army.

it's a shame they were totally useless in the war because I love the idea of giant landships.

# ? Dec 28, 2021 18:13

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Hell yeah Char 2C club:

This kit is ridiculous and I love it.

# ? Dec 28, 2021 18:21

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

This showed up on my FB feed and I want it all right now.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 15:14

Springfield Fatts: May 24, 2010; Pillbug

Crossposting from the 3d print thread:

Springfield Fatts posted:

Henry Turner launched his follow up to the Napoleonic kickstarter Europe Asunder. This time it's cavalry.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ageofadmirals/europe-asunder-2-cavalry-of-the-napoleonic-wars

# ? Jan 2, 2022 19:02

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Played another learning game of Sharpe Practice!. This time I used a real scenario instead of the straight up battle. I got to do a lot more maneuvering and use different systems.

The Federals were sent to locate a spy who had gone dark, but they weren't sure where they were or who they were, as nobody had ever met this native of Southwestern Tennessee.

Lt. Howlett attempted to interview a young boy hiding in a barn, who only shouted "Nuts!" in reply and ran off...

Two local women were interviewed by the charming Lt. McGuire. Though happy to receive some rations to replace the food the Rebs had stolen days before from them, neither were the spy.

Capt. McAndrew and the main Federal column made their way up the field quickly as the Rebels were not drawing the cards they needed to begin deployment...

The battle ended with Capt. McAndrew and the main column taking devastating fire from the main Rebel line, which showed up too late, as Lt. McGuire found "Jeb" hiding behind a pile of manure in a large barn, holding the passcodes for the Rebel camp not far off.

I think I am finally getting a grasp on the rules. The book has specific rules kind of mixed in all over, and some rules that refer to other sections are put in breakouts.

# ? Jan 2, 2022 20:49

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

moths posted:

This showed up on my FB feed and I want it all right now.

Oh, hell, yes. If I can use my Team Yankee toys - and it looks like I can - I'm in.

# ? Jan 3, 2022 16:34

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

JcDent posted:

Chain of Command question

Playing Blitzkrieg 1940

My buddy takes Assault Pioneers, which have 3 pioneer teams per squad. As support option, he takes 3 Kubelwagens.

Is it possible to:
Use a Command Dice roll of 1 to chuck one of the teams into the otherwise-devoid-of-Nazis kubelwagen and for it to deploy like a car (at the edge rather a JO point)
Use a Command Dice roll of 2 to chuck one of the teams and the sarge into a kubelwage and deploy it like a car, but without any command innitiatives since you're not using a 3?

I'm not sure if you can split off teams from squads in non-Ambush deployment, at which case the question arises: how do you crew all those empty cars you can take?

Generally speaking, you can't deploy single teams of a squad to the table outside of springing an Ambush. That said, empty vehicles used as transport aren't deployed separately, they're deployed along with the troops riding inside them. As such, if you rolled a "2" you could plop all 3 teams of the Assault Pionier squad (in their Kubelwagens) on the table at once. It would be no different from deploying a regular infantry squad in an Opel, for instance. And remember, in CoC wheeled vehicles can move the turn they deploy. :mil101:

That said, soft-skinned vehicles are pretty flimsy, and don't really offer much protection to the troops inside them.

# ? Jan 3, 2022 18:00

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

I'm very excited at the possibilities. I've been picking up Team Yankee stuff on the cheap and it'd be fantastic to have a Lardies game to go with it.

The game has a facebook group but apparently all the playtest files have been pulled since they're closer to release.

# ? Jan 3, 2022 18:06

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Are there any popular ancient war games? Greeks and Romans and Germanic barbarians and scythians n poo poo. I�m trying to add some horse nomad style to a 40 K army, and I�m finding it pretty difficult to find affordable ancient history bits. Shields and helms and such.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 22:27

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

a fatguy baldspot posted:

Are there any popular ancient war games? Greeks and Romans and Germanic barbarians and scythians n poo poo. I�m trying to add some horse nomad style to a 40 K army, and I�m finding it pretty difficult to find affordable ancient history bits. Shields and helms and such.

Yes, there are popular wargames for Ancients - quite a few, in fact. They range from big rank-and-flank wargames to small scale skirmish games like SAGA.

That said, the Ancients market is relatively small compared to that of 40K, so models tend to be produced in smaller numbers - which means they're metal. This has been changing recently, but there aren't as many plastic kits out there.

(I'm assuming you're looking for plastic parts for conversions here.)

The only steppe/horse nomad kit I can think of off the top of my head is from Fireforge Games, they make a set of Mongols that might work for you: Link.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 22:36

lenoon: Jan 7, 2010

Gripping beast do some good bits, but probably best idea would be to pick up a few sprues of the relevant era off eBay - victrix, warlord, gripping beast, wargames Atlantic, perry if you want Sudanese or Zulu style bits. Lots of eBay sellers with sprue sales so you�d be able to pick up bits heavy sprues of the right era.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 22:41

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

There also some options for 3d printed models,

https://www.wargaming3d.com/product-category/stls/156-28mm/ancients/

# ? Jan 5, 2022 22:42

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# ? May 10, 2024 05:18

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Thanks folks. The sprue eBay thing is exactly what I needed to search. Awesome. If anyone�s interested I can return with finished shots (assuming this works out lol)

# ? Jan 5, 2022 23:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

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