(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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LimburgLimbo posted:Pretty telling that you'll immediately jump to accusations of racism, again, to literally defend a megawealthy politician *at all cost* Hold up. You think people scoffing at the #wherespengshuai hysteria are doing it out of a desire to protect Zhang Gaoli? Kill his rear end lmao who gives a poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:56
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it's almost as if liberals like limburg aren't arguing in good faith :o
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Dec 20, 2021 01:58
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DiscountDildos posted:Hold up. You think people scoffing at the #wherespengshuai hysteria are doing it out of a desire to protect Zhang Gaoli? Some people seem willing to not even consider the possibility that he might be a lovely dude who did lovely things, and that someone who literally said he led her to a room and demanded sex while someone stood watch outside, just might be telling the truth the first time, and then JUST MAYBE being forced to say something else later under duress. Also I don't know or give a gently caress about some hashtag movement lol. I'm not interested in taking on the baggage of what a bunch of people I don't know are saying, and the fact that you apparently interpret all events through the lens of twitter movements is, uh, telling.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:07
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LimburgLimbo posted:Link me or give me an approx page # or something, interested to see the details, because the original text doesn't leave much room for interpretation imo just run a forum search if you dont believe me how often do you think anyone in any subforums talks about peng shuai
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Dec 20, 2021 02:07
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looks like this thread hooked a whopper
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Dec 20, 2021 02:09
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sexpig by night posted:in this house we believe women
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Dec 20, 2021 02:32
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Lol there is nothing Peng could say of her own volition that won't be immediately discounted as her being forced to say because she lives in an evil regime that brutally represses expression. Would it please the libs if Peng defected and then said exactly the same things she has been? Could we then be absolutely certain she isn't being coerced by the evil CCP?
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Dec 20, 2021 02:33
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LimburgLimbo posted:Some people seem willing to not even consider the possibility that he might be a lovely dude who did lovely things, and that someone who literally said he led her to a room and demanded sex while someone stood watch outside, just might be telling the truth the first time, and then JUST MAYBE being forced to say something else later under duress. You understand that the twitter hashtag is shorthand for the bizarre western media campaign about Peng Shuai. Don't be silly. I honestly don't think anyone in here thinks Zhang Gaoli is cool and good. We all agree that, as you said, this was an affair with a hosed up power dynamic. Some creepy old rear end in a top hat used his standing to enchant his way into a years long extramarital affair with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. Gross! That's not what the whole propaganda campaign was about though. It was about a young woman being raped by Xi Jinping's best friend then getting locked in a torture dungeon for mentioning it in public. That's the starting point of this whole discourse. I don't know what brought you here but I'm glad that your interpretation of the event isn't so hysterical. As far as the whole "she's talking like a robot, she's reading cue cards, there's a CPC official with a gun pointed at her just off camera" stuff. I dunno... maybe. It didn't occur to me that she was acting notably strange. Maybe she does have someone hounding her to make sure the narrative stays on track. Maybe she's a little nervous/awkward because about a month ago she did a long post pouring her heart out about an affair she had with a man over twice her age who ended up just playing with her feelings and discarding her at his discretion. If that's not awkward enough, every major news outlet on earth spent a couple weeks talking about it. Kind of an uncomfortable thing to talk about on camera.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:35
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Some Guy TT posted:just run a forum search if you dont believe me how often do you think anyone in any subforums talks about peng shuai I did, and I don't see any cases of mandarin speakers talking about how her post was willfully misinterpreted. It did however pop up this delightful post: Some Guy TT posted:part of the brouhaha seems to be because apparently the post was deleted a few minutes after it popped up the obvious explanation naturally being that chinese censors have been monitoring peng shuais accounts just in case she slipped up and attacked her sugar daddy as opposed to something ridiculous like her going oh my god why did i write that let alone post it i am way too online So yeah according to you she was just angry at her sugar daddy, nothing to see here, there couldn't possibly be some truth in this highly detailed and long post specifying a bunch of times and places that could be verified if needed. The Peng Shuai stuff can be being used by western media to push a lovely agenda AND Peng Shuai can actually have been forced in to a terrible sexual relationship by a powerful rear end in a top hat; these things are in no way mutually exclusive. And it's hosed up that your first reaction is to say she's just selling herself to her sugar daddy and had an emotional response. By the way re: sugar daddy bullshit her post, in addition to clearly outlining how she was coerced into a sexual relationship with some pretty unambiguous language, also mentioned specifically that she never took money from him, because she know assholes like you would of course make the accusations you did.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:38
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my mandarin is also very weak, which is why I don't play amateur translator and just kinda assume when a mandarin speaker says 'I didn't say that' she's not lying as part of some elaborate scheme.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:43
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DiscountDildos posted:You understand that the twitter hashtag is shorthand for the bizarre western media campaign about Peng Shuai. Don't be silly. I mean I know that the hashtag is being used by people talking about it and it's twitter so some of them are gonna have some dumb loving takes, but I don't want to litigate a twitter battle, and don't want what I'm saying framed as taking the side of every single asswipe who uses some hashtag. I'm interested in some of the specific claims made, such as that there's an intentional misinterpretation of the original text, which knowing enough mandarin to read the parts that are pretty drat unambiguous, as well as having discussed it with bilingual natives, rings false to me. Some people also seem very fast to jump to Zhang Gaoli's defense up to and including calling Peng Shuai a "sugar baby" who is "too online", which we've literally seen in this thread. This is pretty hosed up tribal behavior where you're doing some messed up stuff to own the libs, and it's something that I'd hoped leftists who are usually better at analyzing this poo poo than liberal sources could avoid. Re: torture dungeon I don't think anyone worth listening to literally thought she'd disappear and we'd never see her (I'm sure plenty of people made exactly that case on Twitter; they're loving morons); that's way too obvious. What any decent interpretation I've seen from the start said she'd probably drop off radar for a bit them come back making carefully worded statements negating or minimizing her previous statement. Which is basically exactly what we've seen. And for all we know there could be some truth to her current statements; she could have been pissed and exaggerating or whatnot in the original post. That's not impossible. The issue is the frankly reasonable suspicion that she's been coerced in order to protect Zhang Gaoli in order to protect the image/面子 whatnot of him and the Chinese ruling class. Yeah it's not possible to make conclusive statements about whether her nervousness is because she's being coerced, but it's dumb that because some libs/right wing assholes say "SHE'S LITERALLY GOT A GUN TO HER HEAD OFF CAMERA" some of the people in this thread feel the need to come in and say the far opposite. It's entirely possible and frankly probably that she's gotten a talking to from state security and to not even acknowledge that is silly. sexpig by night posted:my mandarin is also very weak, which is why I don't play amateur translator and just kinda assume when a mandarin speaker says 'I didn't say that' she's not lying as part of some elaborate scheme. Then go ask some people who are fully bilingual Chinese what they think about the specific statements and the translation dude. I've yet to see a breakdown anywhere about exactly how the translation is deceptive, and I'm also reading the original text. It makes way more sense to claim she was lying in her post, because that's at least more nebulous and hard to prove.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:56
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good lord you are a loving moron i called him a sugar daddy in the context of the conspiracy theory being dreamed up by dipshits like you are you really so illiterate you couldnt tell i was making fun of that point of view
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Dec 20, 2021 03:01
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LimburgLimbo posted:Re: torture dungeon I don't think anyone worth listening to literally thought she'd disappear and we'd never see her (I'm sure plenty of people made exactly that case on Twitter; they're loving morons); that's way too obvious. What any decent interpretation I've seen from the start said she'd probably drop off radar for a bit them come back making carefully worded statements negating or minimizing her previous statement. Which is basically exactly what we've seen. when it first broke out i clicked on the gbs china thread and someone in there suggested she might have been murdered and party members were engaging in cannibalism and eating her corpse
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Dec 20, 2021 03:07
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fart simpson posted:when it first broke out i clicked on the gbs china thread and someone in there suggested she might have been murdered and party members were engaging in cannibalism and eating her corpse lol
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Dec 20, 2021 03:11
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a denial of the allegations? this is the perfect evidence i need to prove they're true!
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Dec 20, 2021 03:11
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fart simpson posted:when it first broke out i clicked on the gbs china thread and someone in there suggested she might have been murdered and party members were engaging in cannibalism and eating her corpse Grim. Horrifying and grim as hell.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:12
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lol liberallimbo just tripling down on his idiocy. keep ignoring literally everything peng shuai has actually said/done and apply what you feel is happening
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Dec 20, 2021 03:12
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crepeface posted:Grim. Horrifying and grim as hell. Lol How are u is insane
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Dec 20, 2021 03:12
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im going to charitably assume that youre just as incompetent at using forum search as you are at reading posts and just quote the most elaborate interpretation of the text that was posted when the story was still relatively newThroatwarbler posted:Peng Shuai posted a fairly lengthy, rambling weibo post. and this one too in response to a full english translation tweet that i posted myself which was translated by someone who clearly believed that peng shuai was victimized Throatwarbler posted:I didn't read this translation when it was posted, but scrolling over it now, I did notice a pretty...interesting point. In the second to last paragraph, the tweeter translates "名份" or "名分" (she uses the latter, but both are used somewhat interchangeably and mean the same thing) as "reputation" in the sentence "But reputation is really important". 名分 is more accurately "status" or "title". Any Chinese speaker would understand it in this context to mean "status as the legitimate wife". The term is very rarely used in any other context, I did a little searching and I guess sometimes it's also used when talking about military ranks or similar types of things, but here, Peng is clearly talking about Zhang making an honest woman out of her, which is what I originally said in my summary. See also her multiple previous references to him divorcing his wife. no one disputes that peng shuai got the lovely end of the stick in a gross relationship with an older man whats under question is whether the chinese government is engaged in a conspiracy to silence peng shuai because she was seconds away from blowing the lid off of ccp pizzagate
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Dec 20, 2021 03:13
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Some Guy TT posted:good lord you are a loving moron i called him a sugar daddy in the context of the conspiracy theory being dreamed up by dipshits like you are you really so illiterate you couldnt tell i was making fun of that point of view The people you were claiming to mock aren't claiming that she had a "sugar daddy" relationship, they're claiming she was raped and forced into a relationship with her abuser. Your using that term in that context, along with saying the reality is probably closer to her thinking "oh my god why did i write that let alone post it i am way too online" is hard to see as anything other than you intentionally framing her as some emotional scorned woman stereotype lashing out at her former lover. Even if you truly didn't mean that specific "sugar daddy" term in that way, the way you're framing an accusation of rape and a coerced sexually abusive relationship is pretty hosed. But hey as long as you can own the libs, who cares if you also own some likely sexual assault victims along the way right?
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Dec 20, 2021 03:13
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Ok maybe this guy has a point https://twitter.com/china_takes/status/1472729792231313410?s=20
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Dec 20, 2021 03:17
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LimburgLimbo posted:The people you were claiming to mock aren't claiming that she had a "sugar daddy" relationship, they're claiming she was raped and forced into a relationship with her abuser. in my humorous hypothetical situation featuring off color language the people who think peng shuai is in a sugar daddy relationship with her abuser are the ccp censors who monitor her posts and presumably the posts of all the other ccp concubines literally every second of the day because that is the only way the post could have possibly been deleted that fast are you going to accuse me of misogyny for using the word concubine too despite peng shuai herself literally comparing herself to a concubine in the post
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Dec 20, 2021 03:19
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LimburgLimbo posted:But hey as long as you can own the libs, who cares if you also own some likely sexual assault victims along the way right? You really need to go back and reread some posts.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:21
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LimburgLimbo posted:The people you were claiming to mock aren't claiming that she had a "sugar daddy" relationship, they're claiming she was raped and forced into a relationship with her abuser. your brain is an open dish of sugar. i scoop a teaspoon out and add it to a mix of minced ginger, soy and spring onions. it will be the sauce for the scallops steaming in the wok. a delicate first course.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:24
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This kind of speaks to the larger problem that you can't discuss any issue in China without Voice of America claiming this is proof that it's an authoritarian 1984 nightmare. Sexual impropriety by a powerful man is a scandal that happens everywhere. Maybe Peng Shuai withdrew her statement because she was threatened with having her career ruined, or maybe because she didn't want tennis events in China to be cancelled because of this scandal. But it's a mainstream belief in the US that every statement she makes is literally being read at gunpoint.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:31
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LimburgLimbo posted:The people you were claiming to mock aren't claiming that she had a "sugar daddy" relationship, they're claiming she was raped and forced into a relationship with her abuser. aren't you the guy who had some serious questions about russia today's 'angle' on calling biden a rapist
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Dec 20, 2021 03:32
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Chamale posted:Maybe Peng Shuai withdrew her statement because she was threatened with having her career ruined, or maybe because she didn't want tennis events in China to be cancelled because of this scandal. this theory is somewhat undermined by the wta being the only group to try and cancel any tennis events in china or do any damage to peng shuais career
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Dec 20, 2021 03:41
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fart simpson posted:when it first broke out i clicked on the gbs china thread and someone in there suggested she might have been murdered and party members were engaging in cannibalism and eating her corpse You're literally quoting the part where I'm saying those people are dumbasses. The existence of posts and tweets I haven't made or read from people I don't know doesn't have bearing on me. Some Guy TT posted:im going to charitably assume that youre just as incompetent at using forum search as you are at reading posts and just quote the most elaborate interpretation of the text that was posted when the story was still relatively new Forums search sucks, this literally doesn't show up for me, which is why I asked for a link in the first place. This doesn't really go against anything I've said though; she was coerced into an abusive relationship, possibly forcibly raped at least once, and Zhang is a lovely dude. Seems the only disagreement is whether there's any Chinese state security involved somewhere here and how much. But anyway as long as the consensus here is that she was indeed most likely forced into an abusive relationship and possibly forcible raped at least once then cool and all, because it sure seemed otherwise from some posts. Some Guy TT posted:in my humorous hypothetical situation featuring off color language the people who think peng shuai is in a sugar daddy relationship with her abuser are the ccp censors who monitor her posts and presumably the posts of all the other ccp concubines literally every second of the day because that is the only way the post could have possibly been deleted that fast She almost definitely deleted it herself out of regret/fear, but your scenarios don't seem to address how much of that could be due to a reasonable fear that an accusation against some of the ruling class will attract the attention of state security. Chamale posted:This kind of speaks to the larger problem that you can't discuss any issue in China without Voice of America claiming this is proof that it's an authoritarian 1984 nightmare. Sexual impropriety by a powerful man is a scandal that happens everywhere. Maybe Peng Shuai withdrew her statement because she was threatened with having her career ruined, or maybe because she didn't want tennis events in China to be cancelled because of this scandal. But it's a mainstream belief in the US that every statement she makes is literally being read at gunpoint. This is pretty fair statement since any dialog about China has been pretty poisoned by extremist takes, I'd argue some of that from a strident pro-China left, but definitely far more in the west from far-right (or what would in America probably be deemed fairly centrist). She's not being literally held at gunpoint, but I don't think it's that far off base to question whether or not and how much she's being coerced and how much freedom she has to actually talk. Realistically they don't need a gun to her head to stop her from talking more about the relationship, and it's not unreasonable to ask what would happen to her if she started yelling something about it on live television or the like. I think you guys dance a bit too much around the issue of Chinese censorship and how it's enforced, which isn't necessarily nice and fluffy and probably involves some not nice people doing not nice stuff. You can talk about that even if you know the US/Western intelligence whatnot does the same poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:44
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sexpig by night posted:aren't you the guy who had some serious questions about russia today's 'angle' on calling biden a rapist Dunno, I can't remember anything about that. If it exists and you really want to dig it up we can relitigate that and I'll see if I said some dumb poo poo, which is a pasttime of mine lol
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Dec 20, 2021 03:46
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LimburgLimbo posted:You're literally quoting the part where I'm saying those people are dumbasses. The existence of posts and tweets I haven't made or read from people I don't know doesn't have bearing on me. i know but i thought it was funny and this was as good as any time to bring it up, also to remind everyone it’s not just “twitter” where people like that dwell. it’s pretty mainstream now imo
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Dec 20, 2021 03:50
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fart simpson posted:i know but i thought it was funny and this was as good as any time to bring it up, also to remind everyone it’s not just “twitter” where people like that dwell. it’s pretty mainstream now imo Yeah agree it does feel like it's getting more ridiculous and the takes getting more and more nuts and getting more and more traction. Hypernormalization or whatnot. It's basically impossible to have a conversation about China since in a given forum you're going to have someone with some insane take and the moment its out there everyone starts to engage with that and you can't actually discuss the complexities or the grey poo poo. That having been said you're using a GBS post as the representation of the "mainstream" here which is maybe not the best example haha
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Dec 20, 2021 03:57
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LimburgLimbo posted:She almost definitely deleted it herself out of regret/fear, but your scenarios don't seem to address how much of that could be due to a reasonable fear that an accusation against some of the ruling class will attract the attention of state security. lets say for the sake of argument that peng shuai deleted the post because she thought it was a bad post and doesnt want to talk about it anymore is there literally any action peng shuai could take at this point that could convince you this was her reasoning
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Dec 20, 2021 04:03
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LimburgLimbo posted:She's not being literally held at gunpoint, but I don't think it's that far off base to question whether or not and how much she's being coerced and how much freedom she has to actually talk. Realistically they don't need a gun to her head to stop her from talking more about the relationship, and it's not unreasonable to ask what would happen to her if she started yelling something about it on live television or the like. this just makes the conversation impossible, because it just means anything she does say is going to be refuted by the spectre of "well what if she's being [indirectly] coerced" hanging over it for all time
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Dec 20, 2021 04:17
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Some Guy TT posted:lets say for the sake of argument that peng shuai deleted the post because she thought it was a bad post and doesnt want to talk about it anymore is there literally any action peng shuai could take at this point that could convince you this was her reasoning What does "bad post" mean in this context, because that can mean a lot of different stuff. Putting aside other stuff, do you believe her allegations that she was coerced into sex or an abusive relationship at least once? In general I'm more inclined to believe she was more truthful in her first weibo post when there was realistically no way someone could be coercing her. Nothing can prove 100% in any direction, but when you have someone taking two different stances at two different times: 1) done out of the blue and which passes a sniff test (i.e. I'm entirely willing to believe that a wealthy powerful politician did bad poo poo to a woman) 2) contradicting the first, with minimal elaboration, made via letter or nervously on video after a period of being out of the public eye, in a country with fairly unabashed policies about censorship and a powerful and competent state security arm. Probably the most convincing thing to me would be if she was allowed to publicly re-post her original weibo post, go through the allegations in detail, say things along the lines of I had an extramarital relationship with a powerful politician in China, BUT the part where I insinuated it wasn't consensual was not true, or something along those lines. But I don't think that's likely to happen because it would put a bad face on the ruling class, and her not seeing major consequences for publicly airing those affairs might encourage others. gradenko_2000 posted:this just makes the conversation impossible, because it just means anything she does say is going to be refuted by the spectre of "well what if she's being [indirectly] coerced" hanging over it for all time But that's the point really; to have her deny what she said before in carefully worded statements, without the sort of elaboration that could give details to examine and try to find inconsistencies. As you say that makes a conversation impossible, which is generally one of the points of censorship. Saying she might be being coerced doesn't refute (edit: as in conclusively refute with evidence etc) what she's saying now per se, because there's no real way to verify, but to not even acknowledge coercion is a possibility is imo ludicrous. If anything it makes far more sense for her to be being coerced in some way. It's not impossible that Peng now truly just doesn't want to talk about it now, but I have difficulty imagining a scenario where there was no visits from state security et al, with all the implications that has, to hedge their bet that she'll stop making a fuss about it. Does anyone explicitly disagree with me here that at some point there were almost definitely visits/contact from the Chinese security apparatus in some capacity? I'm not saying that she was thrown in a torture dungeon and cannibalized here lol
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Dec 20, 2021 04:32
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LimburgLimbo posted:
thats quite a qualifier you got there why its almost as if you realize asking anyone in any country to do the ridiculous amount of poo poo youre asking for in regards to publicly exposing a sexual relationship is literally obscene so you have to lean hard on the authoritarian china angle
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Dec 20, 2021 04:39
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thats a lot of words just to deny one chinese womans agency
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Dec 20, 2021 04:39
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it's almost as if liberallimbo is arguing in bad faith 🤔
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Dec 20, 2021 04:42
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SorePotato posted:Who cares loser, your spinning bowtie cannot lead me astray from Xi Jinping Thought. I live eternal in the people's heavenly army, while you, a CIA brain floating in a jar, are set to be replaced in two weeks
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Dec 20, 2021 04:43
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Pharohman777 posted:You are a vile person mirello. Posting this as an example of the smoothbrainedness we're dealing with. Literally just making poo poo up to substitute reality with their dumbass politics.
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Dec 20, 2021 04:48
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Some Guy TT posted:thats quite a qualifier you got there why its almost as if you realize asking anyone in any country to do the ridiculous amount of poo poo youre asking for in regards to publicly exposing a sexual relationship is literally obscene so you have to lean hard on the authoritarian china angle Reposting a blog post (or media being able to repost it) and discussing it, is "literally obscene"? I'm assuming that nobody can or has in a public way. If someone has a clip of a Chinese news channel reading and discussing the text of the blog post by all means post it, it would be interesting to see how they approach it. China *is* authoritarian, with good and bad parts of that. It's not some crazy take or "leaning hard" on an "angle" to say China is authoritarian and has censorship.
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Dec 20, 2021 04:54
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