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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Okay, I used 192 of 200, I should probably be okay if they added more slots.

Stabbey, my friend! I totally forgot to tell you the thing I discovered that you will no doubt consider blasphemous, but now that you've both beaten CS3 and you're the meticulous sort that keeps a lot of extra save files lying around, I do want you to try out a VSM-style build with your beloved Alisa.

Master Quartz -> Gungnir
Secondary Master Quartz -> Minotauros
Accessory 1 -> Kaleidosphere
Accessory 2 -> Either Panzer Goggles or Meister's Gloves

Throw on whatever quartz you want that boost Crit (such as Crit 3 or Hit 3... or both), Strength, and Speed (You won't need speed, but, you know, just in case you mistakenly feel like you might have to act twice. (The mirror enemies that block one of physical or magical and appear in groups might require her to shoot twice to get 'em all) Although, it should be noted that, with the quartz and accessory setup listed, if you're under Crazy Hunt, she will actually exceed 100% crit rate, so if she's paired with Ash, it's not useful to waste quartz slots on it when you could be boosting her strength even farther. Alternatively, you could stick a Hit 3 and Crit 3 on her and use one of her accessories to prevent status or give her a speed boost or give her a bit more strength or CP generation.

Anyhow, this build works like magic because:
1)Alisa has high crit---all of her weapons have +10% crit
2)Alisa is fast--the drawbacks from Minotauros are limited two ways with this. The first way is that she tends to act very early in the initiative. The second way is that the 150% delay doesn't bother her nearly as much as a slower character like Millium or Laura. Although, she won't need a second turn because
3)Molten Storm hits an enormous area.

You've long called me crazy for consistently building Alisa as a fighter, and Cold Steel 3 has several reasons why magic is much better than it was in Cold Steel 1 and 2. So I should finally be coming around to "naw, you're right, she's a caster." But Secondary Master Quartz is such a game changer. Being able to run Gungnir and Minotauros at the same time is beyond nuts. This setup turns her into a goddess of death capable of melting the last boss fight you can use her in by herself on Nightmare.

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Arbite
Nov 4, 2009





CS4

Crow going "I'm definitely dying again now if this happens" and then just not is just speedrunning the worst traits of this subseries.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!

Veryslightlymad posted:

Stabbey, my friend! I totally forgot to tell you the thing I discovered that you will no doubt consider blasphemous, but now that you've both beaten CS3 and you're the meticulous sort that keeps a lot of extra save files lying around, I do want you to try out a VSM-style build with your beloved Alisa.

Master Quartz -> Gungnir
Secondary Master Quartz -> Minotauros
Accessory 1 -> Kaleidosphere
Accessory 2 -> Either Panzer Goggles or Meister's Gloves

Throw on whatever quartz you want that boost Crit (such as Crit 3 or Hit 3... or both), Strength, and Speed (You won't need speed, but, you know, just in case you mistakenly feel like you might have to act twice. (The mirror enemies that block one of physical or magical and appear in groups might require her to shoot twice to get 'em all) Although, it should be noted that, with the quartz and accessory setup listed, if you're under Crazy Hunt, she will actually exceed 100% crit rate, so if she's paired with Ash, it's not useful to waste quartz slots on it when you could be boosting her strength even farther. Alternatively, you could stick a Hit 3 and Crit 3 on her and use one of her accessories to prevent status or give her a speed boost or give her a bit more strength or CP generation.

Anyhow, this build works like magic because:
1)Alisa has high crit---all of her weapons have +10% crit
2)Alisa is fast--the drawbacks from Minotauros are limited two ways with this. The first way is that she tends to act very early in the initiative. The second way is that the 150% delay doesn't bother her nearly as much as a slower character like Millium or Laura. Although, she won't need a second turn because
3)Molten Storm hits an enormous area.

You've long called me crazy for consistently building Alisa as a fighter, and Cold Steel 3 has several reasons why magic is much better than it was in Cold Steel 1 and 2. So I should finally be coming around to "naw, you're right, she's a caster." But Secondary Master Quartz is such a game changer. Being able to run Gungnir and Minotauros at the same time is beyond nuts. This setup turns her into a goddess of death capable of melting the last boss fight you can use her in by herself on Nightmare.

People fighting against the character's strengths to turn them into things they're not has always intrigued and interested me and this is no exception.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction
It's leaning hard into her strengths of high speed, high crit rate, and massive AoE attacks, though?

Edit
No, I wasn't fighting this hard enough at first.

With Emma and Elliot joined by Musse and Altina, Alisa is even more mediocre of a dedicated caster than before. That role is locked down by at least four other characters. Now you can have a full combat party of better casters than Alisa.

But no one else really scratches this weird, high initiative, massive AoE damage role. It's much harder to make Millium and Laura fast enough (and up their crit rate to 100%) than it is to make Alisa strong. Juna is stronger but slower and needs Zemurian Ore. Sara and Fie come close, but Fie is better served as an evade and counter nightmare machine.

There's literally no better option for this build except maybe Rean himself. So do I want a fourth best Mage pr the best possible knockout punch? Try it out before you poo poo on it.

Edit 2
My sincere apologies, you were actually not making GBS threads on my build, I read that completely wrong. I haven't slept in 22 hours, just Narcolepsy things.

Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Dec 14, 2021

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
That's a little interesting, because I skimmed through a CS 3 guide which had recommended builds and MQ pairings. According to the guide, I've largely been running "bad builds" most of the time, but I wasn't really having trouble - other than the Dark Dragon's Den, where my Team B was kinda painful, especially in the 3-team boss battle.

I never made Meister Gloves, but I had most everything else which got her to 70% Critical. Mars Gem, Hit 3, other stuff to get her STR up (even with that stuff, it barely cracks 1200). I can't use Crazy Hunt in the final chapter or pair her with Ash because plot. Even with 70% critical, it didn't seem to proc nearly as often as I would have expected. Yes, the crits she does get hit hard, in the 13k range (with Raging Fire up), but it's certainly not nearly enough for her to even one-shot the regular monsters running around the last area with criticals on Hard difficulty, and her next turns take a long time to come around again. Both those MQ were at 7, which surprised me a bit, since I never used Minotauros in major fights.

I gave it a shot, but I'm still not really seeing the effectiveness of it, and other than the extra 10% criticals, I don't see what else I could do to improve it. Her high crit rate is shackled to her low STR.

EDIT 2:
That build works better on Fie because she has more lines and can stack more +40 STR quartz than Alisa can with her two lines, and still have high evasion. Fie was doing 20k damage even without Raging Fire. Hitting fewer enemies doesn't matter as much because she's hitting them a lot harder. Alisa would do more damage if I worked on giving her a good magic crit build. (I tried one, but my first attempt wasn't very good, and even so it still hit some better damage than the Molten Storm Crits ever did.)

The big problem with Alisa in CS 3 is that she's lost her Blessed Arrow craft for immediate CP recovery, which reduces her flexibility as a support character, but kept the pretty-drat-bad Molten Storm, which has an inherently low chance to seal in a game where most enemies already have a low chance to be affected by seal and other status effects. (Even stacking the best quartz gets her chance to seal up to 85%, which isn't effective on enemies with only a 10%-20% chance to be sealed.)

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 14, 2021

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

I recently moved, so I haven’t gotten back to CS3 yet :negative:

BrightWing
Apr 27, 2012

Yes, he is quite mad.
I still need to finish CS4

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k

Arbite posted:

CS4

Crow going "I'm definitely dying again now if this happens" and then just not is just speedrunning the worst traits of this subseries.

It got a pretty big laugh out of me when he said it. Probably not what they were going for.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
https://blog.ja.playstation.com/2021/12/16/20211216-kuro2/?emcid=or-3r-429458

Kuro 2

Mirello
Jan 29, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

cant wait to play it in 2026!

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

I know Kuro was pretty well received and all but I think they could stand to slow down and stop having these games be yearly releases.

Selenephos
Jul 9, 2010

SyntheticPolygon posted:

I know Kuro was pretty well received and all but I think they could stand to slow down and stop having these games be yearly releases.

I agree. There's an interview with Kondo today where he basically said localizations are NISA's responsibility and that he wishes them to be speedier localizing games too but like... NISA publish and translate tons of non-Falcom games each year too, if NISA did speed up localizations we'd get something like the original script of Ys 8 which was Google Translate tier and it's...also kinda Falcom's own fault for having yearly Kiseki releases since Cold Steel 3 for seemingly no benefit. It's not Call of Duty.

I'd even go as far to say that the annual releases are hurting the series. Hajimari sold a fraction of what Cold Steel 4 sold in Japan and Kuro sold extremely poorly despite being well received. I can't help but wonder if part of this is due to burn out and nobody really having the time to play a 120 hour JRPG each year alongside other games vying for your attention and real life obligations getting in the way too.

https://www.rpgsite.net/news/12140-nihon-falcom-hopes-to-speed-up-localization-for-the-legend-of-heroes

Kale
May 14, 2010

I just find it funny that a pretty small company can write, design, compose and program an 80+ hour game something like 3 times faster than it takes to translate one into English.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Big part is just the domestic console market ever dying outside the switch

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Kale posted:

I just find it funny that a pretty small company can write, design, compose and program an 80+ hour game something like 3 times faster than it takes to translate one into English.

From what I can tell that's mostly because an even smaller team is translating multiple games a year.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Cold Steel 3 - Final Chapter.

- After free wandering around ends: the Big Long Infodump Scene.

A not-so-surprising reveal: The cathedral scene was a long and pretty dry infodump, covering a LOT of stuff. I had suspected from various hints throughout the game that Gaius was now a Dominion, and since I recently re-played CS 2, I also guessed he probably was replacing the 8th, the Roaring Lion. I was surprised to learn that you could pass that down. I thought from Sky the third that they supernaturally formed after some kind of trauma, and Gaius doesn't seem to have major trauma lurking in his past. But that's fine, I was just making an unwarranted assumption about how that works.


I know that this infodump was already long enough, but it's still not covering everything. I’m still lost on a few points. It’s not really clear what the “proper course” of an Awakener is. What is their purpose. What’s the plan? And why did Ouroborus’s plan in CS 2 hinge on Azure and Ordine fighting? Aren’t all Divine Knights, by definition, parts of the Septerrion, kinda invulnerable and immortal, and thus unable to outright defeat the others?

While I'm on the subject of being lost, I’m also lost about the point of those grand experiments Ouroboros was doing throught the game with Aions. As far as I can tell, the point seems to be testing whether Ouroboros is capable of creating an artificial Septerrion, or getting the Septerrion they have to provide power. Which, given that their newest Anguis is literally the most knowledgeable person in the world when it comes to creating one, shouldn’t be that much of a surprise. Also, once again, where the gently caress are they getting their resources from to even create those Aions in the first place? They’re apparently so cheap that they’re totally disposable. See also, Ouroboros losing 1000 loving Archaisms in North Ambria and not giving a poo poo.

Also, on the subject of being lost, I'm confused about the end of CS 2 through to the final chapter of CS 3 - (enemy group squabbling stuff) Osborne "took over" the Phantasmal Blaze "plan" ( :lol::lol::lol::lol: ). If he is going to do that, he therefore must (A) know what the plan is, (B) know HOW to "take it over", and (C) have some different objective in mind for the plan than what Ouroboros wanted from it. Otherwise, there's no loving point "taking it over" at all. In order for B to be possible, he has to know how to stop Ouroboros or interfere with them, but they have infinite resources and a completely untraceable base of operations because of this reason: ______________.

So, okay, CS 3 starts out with a peek behind the curtain and we see Osborne took over Crossbell and North Ambria in part to eliminate possible places for Ouroboros to hide. The first 3 chapters of CS 3 have Ouroboros making trouble in Erebonia, and Osborne orders Rean to put that trouble down. So Osborne and Ouroboros are clearly opposed to each other. ...And then somehow in the Finale, suddenly all that has been forgotten and Osborne and Ouroboros are working hand in hand again.

...Why? This goes back to (A) and (C). Why did Osborne need to take over the plan from Ouroboros if he was just going to carry it out and do the same thing they wanted to do? What I heard of the plan sure doesn't seem like there's much room for nuance or debate over what it's supposed to do.

I had been planning on talking about more things, but this is already long enough.

Moofia Boss Val
May 14, 2021

CS really fails to explain the Divine Knight/Phantasmal Blaze plot very well. A lot of it feels contrived, particularly in CS3 when the entire conflict could have been avoided had literally anyone spoken up and explained what was going on to the protagonists.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k

Moofia Boss Val posted:

CS really fails to explain the Divine Knight/Phantasmal Blaze plot very well. A lot of it feels contrived, particularly in CS3 when the entire conflict could have been avoided had literally anyone spoken up and explained what was going on to the protagonists.

Most games are guilty of this, but this franchise in particular really gets off on the trope.

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

But that's fine, I was just making an unwarranted assumption about how that works.
You haven't seen what Azure has to say on the subject, right?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

...Why? This goes back to (A) and (C). Why did Osborne need to take over the plan from Ouroboros if he was just going to carry it out and do the same thing they wanted to do? What I heard of the plan sure doesn't seem like there's much room for nuance or debate over what it's supposed to do.

Let's just say they're not the same operation.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Cyouni posted:

You haven't seen what Azure has to say on the subject, right?

Wait, what? I don't remember there being anything specific about that in Azure.

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen

Some Numbers posted:

Wait, what? I don't remember there being anything specific about that in Azure.

It's specifically in a certain character's final bond event, so it can be pretty easy to miss.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Moofia Boss Val posted:

CS really fails to explain the Divine Knight/Phantasmal Blaze plot very well. A lot of it feels contrived, particularly in CS3 when the entire conflict could have been avoided had literally anyone spoken up and explained what was going on to the protagonists.

I mean, the protagonists ask. Repeatedly. Over and over again. The bad guys either ignore the question or else they say vague, yet frustrating things like "Once I heard a part of the truth, I could not oppose it", and, even worse, when the question gets asked right before the final boss, the answer is "the goal is to drown the world in war and blood", an answer which is so cartoonish that it only makes sense as a lie.


Cyouni posted:

You haven't seen what Azure has to say on the subject, right?

I've finished Azure (Geofront). I don't remember what it said about that, I only remember what Sky the Third said about it.

EDIT: I missed out on that certain character's final bond event. It was the only one I missed, too. I hosed up.


quote:

Let's just say they're not the same operation.

Gotcha. I'll come back in another 80+ hours once CS 4 has explained the difference at the end of its game.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Dec 18, 2021

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

My biggest problem with cs3/4 writing wise is that when the game finally starts to go into overaching series plot stuff, like Ourboros plans and septerrions and divine beasts, it never really feels super confident in what its discussing and it's always pretty weak. I guess in general I've never found all that stuff especially compelling but it's still really weak here.

Moofia Boss Val
May 14, 2021

The Ouroboros storyline has been bad since SC. By the very rules the writers set for themselves (Ouro wants Sept-Terion. Sept-Terion becomes obtainable when four towers are activated. Towers are activated by Gospels), the story makes no sense. Rather than going straight to the towers to release the seals and take the Aureole before anyone realizes what's happening, let alone prepare to stop him, Weissman instead spends months faffing around, having Enforcers cause chaos in the most visible way possible by causing earthquakes and torching countryside and invading capital cities and pulling out huge bright red airship carriers, alerting and antagonizing nearly every single faction in the setting and giving them time to mount a counterattack.

The difference between Ouro in SC and Ouro in CS3/4 is that you are only subjected to 60 hours of terrible Ouro plot in SC, whereas in CS3 you're subjected to 130 hours of it and then you still have CS4 to go. It's not surprise that the games with the least amount of Ouroboros involvement in the plot are regarded as the best.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Tbh the main difference between Ouroboros in SC and in CS3/4 is that the Enforcers are all much cooler in Cold Steel.

E: Imagine if instead of Luciola or Walter SC had Mcburn or Duvalie? They just don't compare.

Moofia Boss Val
May 14, 2021

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Tbh the main difference between Ouroboros in SC and in CS3/4 is that the Enforcers are all much cooler in Cold Steel.

E: Imagine if instead of Luciola or Walter SC had Mcburn or Duvalie? They just don't compare.

That ties into the antagonists of CS just being straight up more likeable than in prior arcs. Your first scene of Xeno and Leo isn't them shooting up a guy into a red paste or torching cities. You don't see Duvalie waltzing into Heimdallr and massacring dozens of people just for fun. You don't see McBurn going around threatening to cause earthquakes and kill grandma in her house because he wants to "shake up people's lives". Bleublanc isn't a creepy and petty serial killer in CS. The henchmen of CS are treated as your jovial frenemies who don't do anything awful on screen. You would be happy to hang out with them and them becoming party members wouldn't raise eyebrows.

So when CS3's ending rolls around and they do evilish stuff for nonsense reasons, even though it'd be out of character given how they had been characterized for the past 300+ hours, it does feel very aggravating.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Quick reminder that one of Ouroboros's primary recruitment methods is to take in badly-traumatized children and then set them to work as killers and assassins. However "funny" and "quirky" some of their members are, they're all perfectly fine and okay with that, even the supposedly-noble Steel. They're not pals you can have a casual beer with at the bar.

I don't understand how you can say them doing evilish stuff is out-of-character. It's not. It's expected because they're part of an organization which routinely does evilish stuff. In CS 2, The first scene of Xeno and Leo is them planting land mines which they actually call "saying hello". McBurn talks about burning down towns for fun. Duvalie outright says that she's barred from promotion to their their upper ranks because she "doesn't have enough darkness inside her". They're not introduced as good guys.

Look at some of Ouroboros's latest recruits to their upper ranks from (Azure) Crossbell: You've got a mastermind which hired evil mercenaries to murder their own armed forces and blow up buildings to manipulate public opinion. The other new recruit is one of the mercenaries in question, who attempted to murder a 13-year-old non-combatant civilian. She did that to provoke another person to murderous rage, for a fight she didn't have time to do in the first place, and a fight she wasn't even invested in enough in to finish. Attempted murder of a child so she could get a few moments of battle-induced tinglies. She's just such a FUN character!!!!!

I agree that Ouroboros has been bad (writing-wise) since the beginning. The very first scene of Sky SC had them described - by someone with the intelligence, position, and motivation to know - as "an organization so secret few people even know they exist". I've repeatedly complained that the characteristics of (A)"hides in the shadows and is nearly impossible to be found by intelligence organizations actively looking for them" and (B) "has the capacity for rapid deployment of massive amounts of troops and giant battleships" are mutually exclusive and cannot describe the same group.

CS 3 actually makes the mystery of the untouchable Ouroboros even worse, since you get just a little hint of background for them in a heart-to-heart between Rean and (Ch. 2) Sharon. Sharon says that Ouroboros was still fairly new when her organization of child-abusing assassins was crushed by them. So they're not even a centuries-old conspiracy, but a fairly recent development within a couple decades. That makes the question of where they got all their resources and funding from to start out with even more curious.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Dec 18, 2021

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
more like "oh no, bore us"

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

The phantasm was crossbells plot.
The blaze was releasing vermillion and setting up a bit.
These two plans interlock together.

The Great Twilight as we know it was not the original plan, Osborne took over and recruited Ouroboros after cuz it does advance their plans and villain team up cool.

The issue really is that CS3 double focused on being a new game and the big plot game part 1. At this point that's the series only real issue, its difficult for it to handle all of its focuses and it generally doesn't make the best choices on what needs focus.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Cold Steel 3 - Final Chapter.
I know that this infodump was already long enough, but it's still not covering everything. I’m still lost on a few points. It’s not really clear what the “proper course” of an Awakener is. What is their purpose. What’s the plan? And why did Ouroborus’s plan in CS 2 hinge on Ashen and Azure fighting? Aren’t all Divine Knights, by definition, parts of the Septerrion, kinda invulnerable and immortal, and thus unable to outright defeat the others?

CS4 goes more into this, but the short answer is Divine Knights are more or less immortal, yes, though they CAN be damaged to the point where they need to "reform/rebuild" themselves, which takes a long time and which also causes their Awakener to die permanently. But Divine Knights CAN defeat each other. In fact, it's the only way a Divine Knight can be permanently defeated.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

While I'm on the subject of being lost, I’m also lost about the point of those grand experiments Ouroboros was doing throught the game with Aions. As far as I can tell, the point seems to be testing whether Ouroboros is capable of creating an artificial Septerrion, or getting the Septerrion they have to provide power. Which, given that their newest Anguis is literally the most knowledgeable person in the world when it comes to creating one, shouldn’t be that much of a surprise. Also, once again, where the gently caress are they getting their resources from to even create those Aions in the first place? They’re apparently so cheap that they’re totally disposable. See also, Ouroboros losing 1000 loving Archaisms in North Ambria and not giving a poo poo.

No, as Azure explained, Ouroboros has no interest in artificial Sept Terrions, even if they're more powerful than the original things. They WERE trying to create something artificial, but it wasn't a Sept Terrion. Both the battle and the subsequent mech fight between Valimar and Ordine at the end of CS2 and the battles and subsequent mech fights between Valimar and the Aions throughout CS3 were attempts to artificially create a certain result without having to follow the road Osborne intends to take. Except none of the experiments really brought about the result the society had been hoping for, which was why they eventually decided to just let Osborne do his thing. (over the objections of Vita, who used to be in charge of the operation)

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Why? This goes back to (A) and (C). Why did Osborne need to take over the plan from Ouroboros if he was just going to carry it out and do the same thing they wanted to do? What I heard of the plan sure doesn't seem like there's much room for nuance or debate over what it's supposed to do.

They're not exactly the same, though they diverge around the 95% point. Also, Azure Abyss initially tried to go for a "cleaner" path to the end result, which didn't work, so eventually the decision was made to set the current course.

Moofia Boss Val posted:

The Ouroboros storyline has been bad since SC. By the very rules the writers set for themselves (Ouro wants Sept-Terion. Sept-Terion becomes obtainable when four towers are activated. Towers are activated by Gospels), the story makes no sense. Rather than going straight to the towers to release the seals and take the Aureole before anyone realizes what's happening, let alone prepare to stop him, Weissman instead spends months faffing around, having Enforcers cause chaos in the most visible way possible by causing earthquakes and torching countryside and invading capital cities and pulling out huge bright red airship carriers, alerting and antagonizing nearly every single faction in the setting and giving them time to mount a counterattack.

That one was explained in SC. The towers were actually activated when the first seal below Grancel was destroyed and Weissmann's goal was to deactivate the towers. And it wasn't so much the Gospels that could deactivate those towers, but rather the Aureole itself that would deactivate the towers by interfacing with them through the Gospels. Except what Ouroboros had were not true Gospels like the things that the denizens of the Liber Ark possessed and which you print one of in the final chapter of the game. The only true Gospels in existence were on the Liber Ark, which was sealed away in another dimension. What Ouroboros had were rough replicas of real Gospels, which during FC were able to establish a basic connection to the Aureole, but were too primitive to be used to let the Aureole interface with the towers and hack its own prison. The first five chapters of SC (or rather the Ruan, Zeiss, Rolent and Bose chapters) were all trial-and-error experiments to test out more and more refined imitation Gospels until they eventually got one that was close enough to the original that they could be used to interface with the devices on top of the four towers.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

I don't understand how you can say them doing evilish stuff is out-of-character. It's not. It's expected because they're part of an organization which routinely does evilish stuff. In CS 2, The first scene of Xeno and Leo is them planting land mines which they actually call "saying hello". McBurn talks about burning down towns for fun. Duvalie outright says that she's barred from promotion to their their upper ranks because she "doesn't have enough darkness inside her". They're not introduced as good guys.

Just a little correction here, McBurn mainly talks about burning down towns in the context of "this place is far away from town that I can go all out without having to worry about burning whole neighborhoods". Duvalie's not barred from promotion to their upper ranks, she's barred from becoming an Enforcer. The "inner darkness" part is specifically for Enforcers, there's no indication that it's a prerequisite for higher positions. (such as the Anguis)

Srice
Sep 11, 2011

Oxxidation posted:

more like "oh no, bore us"

:hai:

claw game handjob
Mar 27, 2007

pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING
Sky SC: incredibly good decision to set me up with the polar opposite of everyone Estelle was traveling with in the first game in the form of Anelace, the intro was a fun chapter.

edit: oh my god not five minutes later and the declaration of rivalry, this rules, Anelace rules

claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 20, 2021

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

secretly best girl posted:

Sky SC: incredibly good decision to set me up with the polar opposite of everyone Estelle was traveling with in the first game in the form of Anelace, the intro was a fun chapter.

edit: oh my god not five minutes later and the declaration of rivalry, this rules, Anelace rules

Anelace is one of my favorite characters and it's a war crime that she doesn't get more screen time.

Cuteness is Justice!

I hope you picked Agate.

claw game handjob
Mar 27, 2007

pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING
I did, and within minutes I knew I made the right call just for these two hard-headed idiots arriving in town.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Some Numbers posted:

Anelace is one of my favorite characters and it's a war crime that she doesn't get more screen time.

Cuteness is Justice!

I hope you picked Agate.
:hmmyes:

secretly best girl posted:

I did, and within minutes I knew I made the right call just for these two hard-headed idiots arriving in town.

Yes, you did.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
CSIV Act 2: does Juna say anything interesting if you bring her to Ordis for the Claire fight? I didn't know she'd be here and didn't really feel like grinding all the monster entries out again.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Erpy posted:

Just a little correction here, McBurn mainly talks about burning down towns in the context of "this place is far away from town that I can go all out without having to worry about burning whole neighborhoods". Duvalie's not barred from promotion to their upper ranks, she's barred from becoming an Enforcer. The "inner darkness" part is specifically for Enforcers, there's no indication that it's a prerequisite for higher positions. (such as the Anguis)

If you need a more recent quote, in CS 3, McBurn ponders burning Orchis tower to the ground.

The “specifically for enforcers” bit feels like a distinction without a difference. The series has already repeatedly established that Ouroboros uses psychologically-damaged children as soldiers. That’s generally considered as “something a good person does not do”. The Anguis are the top loving brass, which makes them absolutely complicit in everything their society cult does. I don’t care how charming or “honorable” some of them are, the resulting blood is on their hands all the same. It's not possible to convince me that they're good guys, especially when the series doesn't portray its protagonists as agreeing with the sentiment "bad means are justified by good ends".

But that aside...

Black Alberich (Major Cold Steel 3 spoilers from the final chapter)

A reveal three games in the making. It rivals George in terms of long-term setup. And the resolution is still going to need another game. Well done.

I now see even more clearly why Falcom nudges players towards the pairing of Rean and Alisa, as they have much more in common than was clear even after CS 1. It’s quite rare someone can say “My father is evil and is trying to set off the end of the world” and their romantic partner can legitimately respond “I know exactly how you feel.” …I just realized that this means Irina Reinford is actually the MORE LOVING AND AFFECTIONATE of Alisa’s parents. Wow. Not a sentence I expected to say after the first two CS games.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Black Alberich (Major Cold Steel 3 spoilers from the final chapter)

A reveal three games in the making. It rivals George in terms of long-term setup. And the resolution is still going to need another game. Well done.

I now see even more clearly why Falcom nudges players towards the pairing of Rean and Alisa, as they have much more in common than was clear even after CS 1. It’s quite rare someone can say “My father is evil and is trying to set off the end of the world” and their romantic partner can legitimately respond “I know exactly how you feel.” …I just realized that this means Irina Reinford is actually the MORE LOVING AND AFFECTIONATE of Alisa’s parents. Wow. Not a sentence I expected to say after the first two CS games.

This does explain why CS2 has that hidden sidequest where Alisa repairs that orbal pocket watch and folks were like: "why was this not a bonding event?"

ChiTownEddie
Mar 26, 2010

Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.
I just reached the...second part of the finale of CS2.
I'll admit I'm very ready to play something else. I haven't gotten burned out this badly on a Trails game before (Sky 1-3, Zero, CS1).

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MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

Betwen Black Alberich and Irena, I honestly see Rean killing himself if he gets with Alisa due to tripling up on stress, so like.... yeah that ship got murdered by her family.

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