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Gripweed posted:If they were worried about the character's cultural impact, turning him into "The King of Killers" and giving him a cool new outfit in his own new prestige series seems like a misstep. There's no way to actually prevent cops from idolizing him or appropriating his symbol by telling different stories. Like if Marvel suddenly made him a gay antifa AOC fanboy it's not like cops truly care about the Punisher's characterization and history. He represents what they wish they could be and he comes with a fun symbol to use as a decal in a way other shoot-first-ask-questions-later characters lack.
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Dec 20, 2021 17:37
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:It seems like The Hand will recruit anyone to be its leader these days -- Matt Murdock, Wilson Fisk, Frank Castle. Who's next, Deadpool? Gwenpool? Baron Zemo? Bucky? Sabretooth too for a while
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Dec 20, 2021 17:41
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i knew before i even saw who was writing it this would suck, and then i saw aaron and was like yup it's gonna suck e: lol that pitch quote, jesus site fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 17:43
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Lobok posted:There's no way to actually prevent cops from idolizing him or appropriating his symbol by telling different stories. Like if Marvel suddenly made him a gay antifa AOC fanboy it's not like cops truly care about the Punisher's characterization and history. He represents what they wish they could be and he comes with a fun symbol to use as a decal in a way other shoot-first-ask-questions-later characters lack. It's this weird thing where there are people who don't like Frank not because of what he's doing but because of some people who like him, so those people don't read Frank comics until Frank is no longer attractive to this crowd of people. But there's no way to do that. There is literally one way this ends. "Haha, a comic book where the protagonist takes over a secret ninja organization. And it's helmed by a respected creative team, you say? Lord will this suck." Like the people taking umbridge with the Punisher need to be fair about this - their problem isn't with Frank, the character who was a literal Frankenstein's monster in one of his most recent iterations - it's with the people they imagine like Frank. And that's not fair to the character or his creative team.
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Dec 20, 2021 17:57
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Lobok posted:There's no way to actually prevent cops from idolizing him or appropriating his symbol by telling different stories. Like if Marvel suddenly made him a gay antifa AOC fanboy it's not like cops truly care about the Punisher's characterization and history. He represents what they wish they could be and he comes with a fun symbol to use as a decal in a way other shoot-first-ask-questions-later characters lack. Yeah plus there's multiple movies and a Netflix show so it's not like just stopping publishing the comics would accomplish anything. The only way you can stop the whole cops and Punisher thing is to hop in a time machine and convince Gerry Conway that Frank is a bad idea.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:00
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Nilbop posted:Like the people taking umbridge with the Punisher need to be fair about this - their problem isn't with Frank, the character who was a literal Frankenstein's monster in one of his most recent iterations - it's with the people they imagine like Frank. And that's not fair to the character or his creative team. no i like punisher comics and i think it's gonna suck because aaron is writing it, and him taking over there hand is really stupid and a real hard swerve away from who frank is as a person. honestly should've just kept not making punisher books instead of doing this
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Dec 20, 2021 18:00
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He's a popular character, and Aaron's a popular (and good) writer, who has written Frank before and wants to write him again. Of course they're going to make more Punisher books.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:07
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yeah that's great and all but don't say that people aren't liking this because they don't like cops when it is in fact possible to just not like this book announcement on its own terms
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Dec 20, 2021 18:10
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People are absolutely not liking the Punisher because of the political stink around it. I am not saying that this is why you, site, are not reading it.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:12
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Lobok posted:There's no way to actually prevent cops from idolizing him or appropriating his symbol by telling different stories. Like if Marvel suddenly made him a gay antifa AOC fanboy it's not like cops truly care about the Punisher's characterization and history. He represents what they wish they could be and he comes with a fun symbol to use as a decal in a way other shoot-first-ask-questions-later characters lack. I think it could be done. Make him a villain again. And not a cool villain who leads an army of ninjas, a pathetic villain. Everyone pities him because he lost his family, he thinks owning a lot of guns and striking back will make things better but he regularly fucks up and hurts the wrong people. If Marvel made that what the Punisher was, and that Punisher was in the movies, it would have an effect on how people saw the character. But it would also mean that the Punisher was not a marketable character anymore.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:22
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Nilbop posted:He's a popular character, and Aaron's a popular (and good) writer, who has written Frank before and wants to write him again. Of course they're going to make more Punisher books. I don't think anyone is saying "it's inexplicable to me why Marvel would put Aaron on a Punisher book," because duh, you're right, the Punisher is a popular character and Jason Aaron is a popular writer. But he's also a writer whose Avengers is, imo, not very good, which is definitely not a weird fringe opinion of mine-- he's written good stuff but I have just not enjoyed him lately and in general enjoy him less and less the closer he drifts to high-concept shenanigans, which "the Punisher leads the Hand" feels like.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:44
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We refuse to comment negatively on guns so it is time for Frank to use blades.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:23
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There's definitely such a thing as being circumspect about how you portray your characters politically...but then, people will watch Star Wars and be like "The First Order represents Planned Parenthood" so like................at some point you have to cut some losses about this sort of thing.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:33
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I'm really curious as to what is so wild about Aaron's pitch that they would take Punisher out from the box hey kept him in to minimize the socio-political heat he could potentially draw Knowing his recent creative leanings it's probably going to be something like "The Punisher is a ninja now, and also, all the Hand ninja are his minions" which y'know, fair play, if this gets lovely cryptofascists to start running around in red pajamas and brandishing costume swords, I'd say that's probably a step in the right direction, but I doubt A) That will happen and B) that the story will be very good
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Dec 20, 2021 19:50
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OnimaruXLR posted:Knowing his recent creative leanings it's probably going to be something like "The Punisher is a ninja now, and also, all the Hand ninja are his minions" which y'know, fair play, if this gets lovely cryptofascists to start running around in red pajamas and brandishing costume swords, I'd say that's probably a step in the right direction, but I doubt A) That will happen and B) that the story will be very good That's how we get an American Mishima, which would be really loving funny.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:29
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i guess marvel's idea is just to not address it at all but change the logo so they can say cops aren't copying the punisher https://twitter.com/cheryllynneaton/status/1473024846913282048?s=20
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Dec 20, 2021 21:38
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time to tell some guy parked across three spaces outside a suburban fast casual restaurant in a gigantic pickup with stickers of a skull and a series of different kinds of bullets spelling out COEXIST on the back that actually, if he read the comics, the Punisher wears some Boba Fett shoulder pad bullshit on his chest now
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Dec 20, 2021 22:28
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So, despite not really having much of an interest in the character, I started reading Zdarsky's Daredevil. Turns out that it's really good. Zdarsky is a good writer and Fisk is a fun villain. Then again, I'm still at the start. Maybe it drops the ball at some point.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:20
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The genie came out of the bottle the moment that American Sniper guy started slapping the Punisher skull on himself. It's beyond the limits of what Marvel/Disney can do now and has been for a long time now. You might as well spend all your time reminding people that "actually the swastika was originally a symbol of Buddhism." This is just Marvel throwing up their hands and trying to keep people from associating their gun-humping IP with REAL-WORLD gun-humpers.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:24
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cant cook creole bream posted:So, despite not really having much of an interest in the character, I started reading Zdarsky's Daredevil. Turns out that it's really good. Zdarsky is a good writer and Fisk is a fun villain. Zdarsky's Daredevil is outstanding, especially coming off of Soule's run which I thought was one of the weakest DD runs in a very long time. Zdarsky has really tapped into everything I love about the character and his corner of the world and really done great stuff with it in a way that really feels of a piece with everything that has come before it. It's loving great and really nice to see Zdarsky show off how big a wheelhouse he's got. It also helps that this run has has consistent and excellent art.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:32
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Actually the Punisher loving owned in Superior Foes of Spider-Man.
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Dec 21, 2021 00:41
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Gologle posted:Actually the Punisher loving owned in Superior Foes of Spider-Man.
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Dec 21, 2021 00:46
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It was, objectively, better than Cates Hulk is right now.
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Dec 21, 2021 00:51
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Edge & Christian posted:I ain't reading that poo poo lmao Superior Foes is actually good tho?
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Dec 21, 2021 01:31
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I love Steve Lieber but couldn't get past a couple of issues. I did not like it.
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Dec 21, 2021 02:03
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Edge & Christian posted:I ain't reading that poo poo lmao  cant cook creole bream posted:So, despite not really having much of an interest in the character, I started reading Zdarsky's Daredevil. Turns out that it's really good. Zdarsky is a good writer and Fisk is a fun villain. In my dreams someone gives Zdarsky The Amazing Spider-Man for a few years but nah let's have some dumb centipede poo poo instead
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Dec 21, 2021 02:34
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Do "most dudes" really like the bad book?
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Dec 21, 2021 02:39
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Where do I pitch my story about the Punisher listening to a podcast in his iheartradio app and deciding, "wow, all cops really are bastards" and he then goes and starts exclusively killing the police. He starts doing this while listening to Cop Killer, but then someone tells him Ice T plays a cop on TV now so he's done with that so he starts listening to trap hip hop exclusively. Through this music he comes to understand the reality of what motivates someone to deal drugs so he starts to take riches from the police stations and police officers homes he liberates and redistributes it to urban communities. He realizes this isn't enough though, so he starts to do the same thing to billionaires. Of course this puts him at odds with guys like Moon Knight and Tony Stark. I'd like Disney to publish this.
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Dec 21, 2021 03:03
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Maybe post it in QCS, that's where most of the Marvel editors hang out.
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Dec 21, 2021 03:06
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Tensokuu posted:Superior Foes is actually good tho? Surprisingly good. Part of it may have been the ridiculousness of the times since Superior Spider-man had just started and it felt like Marvel hedging by a side-wink of "look how crazy we are right now!" But it was still a very fun series
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Dec 21, 2021 03:10
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How Wonderful! posted:Maybe post it in QCS, that's where most of the Marvel editors hang out. lmao
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Dec 21, 2021 03:15
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Superior Foes of Spider-Man is an all time favorite of mine, which of course made his dogshit ASM even more disappointing.
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Dec 21, 2021 04:22
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Edge & Christian posted:Do "most dudes" really like the bad book? Dudes of taste do
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Dec 21, 2021 06:07
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:Surprisingly good. Part of it may have been the ridiculousness of the times since Superior Spider-man had just started and it felt like Marvel hedging by a side-wink of "look how crazy we are right now!" But it was still a very fun series Lord_Hambrose posted:Superior Foes of Spider-Man is an all time favorite of mine, which of course made his dogshit ASM even more disappointing. I'm a big fan too, because it's a crime caper book and a straight-up comedy, and I love stories about goofy criminals who think they're slick screwing themselves and each other over (see Elmore Leonard, Carl Hiaasen, etc.). Nick Spencer excels at writing cocky, smug, amusing jerks who overrate their own intelligence and competence (see The Fix, also with Steve Lieber, and his Ant-Man run). And the only artist who can match Steve Lieber for hilariously expressive faces that communicate so much with a single look is Kevin Maguire.
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Dec 21, 2021 12:15
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Edge & Christian posted:Do "most dudes" really like the bad book? A lot of people do. I really like it. Sometimes opinions differ from yours. I know, right?
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Dec 21, 2021 15:29
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enigmahfc posted:A lot of people do. I really like it.
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Dec 21, 2021 15:51
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Rick posted:Where do I pitch my story about the Punisher listening to a podcast in his iheartradio app and deciding, "wow, all cops really are bastards" and he then goes and starts exclusively killing the police. He starts doing this while listening to Cop Killer, but then someone tells him Ice T plays a cop on TV now so he's done with that so he starts listening to trap hip hop exclusively. Through this music he comes to understand the reality of what motivates someone to deal drugs so he starts to take riches from the police stations and police officers homes he liberates and redistributes it to urban communities. He realizes this isn't enough though, so he starts to do the same thing to billionaires. Of course this puts him at odds with guys like Moon Knight and Tony Stark. I'd like Disney to publish this. Moon Knight just lost his wealth after his account got hacked, and he didn't care. "It means exactly nothing to me. I am a PRIEST. And no wealthy priest has ever been good." It was a badass scene. I like your idea in general, though. My main point is read current, goon written comic book Moon Knight. Edge & Christian posted:I respect that! I was mostly just responding to non-sequitur single sentences/sentence fragments with equal amounts of effort. I probably should have talked more about things loving owning or loving sucking to blend in better. Your deep dives into publication history loving owns, but your insistence that people can't offer quick, simple opinions on comics they read loving sucks.
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Dec 21, 2021 16:13
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Some times people come off more authoritative than they mean to.
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Dec 21, 2021 16:40
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swearing off nick spencer entirely is perfectly reasonable. his few good books are really good, but then there is everything else.
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Dec 22, 2021 04:48
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Trying to make sense of some BleedingCool. "Jonathan Hickman recently announced he was stepping down from the X-Men books, as Marvel's contract demands he create or recreate properties for the publisher, and the creative team wanted to continue the X-Men titles in their current state rather than reinvent them again." https://bleedingcool.com/comics/are-jonathan-hickman-chris-bachalo-marvels-new-spider-man-team/ I had read a good bit about him leaving X-Men, this bit about it being due to some contractual thingy about creating or doing a "recreate" on various properties is new to me. Is it pure nonsense, or is there a grain of truth? Since having long uninterrupted runs by good teams is all I ask of Marvel, it is a funny thought that they're actively against that. Though I take this kind of article with a grain of salt.
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Dec 23, 2021 22:53
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