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All of these pictures are very cool, but I spent a long time staring at this one in particular, trying to figure out if the design is symmetric or not, and it isn't, and that bothers me 
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Dec 18, 2021 00:46
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The two ribbon shapes are identical, it’s just not the swastika you're expecting.
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Dec 18, 2021 01:13
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The bottom 3x3 grid is different than the others, though. There's a transposition of blue and brown at, like, the 10-o'-clock position on that 3x3 so that it isn't surrounded by white like the other three are. Maybe it got broken and repaired by someone who botched it up, I can see other places where parts got knocked off (I'm not counting them in the asymmetry).
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Dec 18, 2021 01:32
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TipTow posted:
These bricked-over archways were originally open, right? They were just freestanding columns like in Greek temples? Kylaer posted:Maybe it got broken and repaired by someone who botched it up, I can see other places where parts got knocked off (I'm not counting them in the asymmetry). Yeah, I think this is it. There's several places all over that have been repaired wrong, apparently by someone who was vaguely aware of the concept of patterns but didn't know or care which ones belonged where.
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Dec 18, 2021 07:30
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It's possible some of the myth of beer over water for safety comes from the antibacterial action of hops towards gram positive bacteria, although of course this is irrelevant to the ancient world.
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Dec 19, 2021 14:39
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Fuschia tude posted:These bricked-over archways were originally open, right? They were just freestanding columns like in Greek temples? No, I don't believe so--not for the Mausoleum, anyway. I'm not 100% certain on that, but 1) nothing in the interior architecture suggests those areas were open to the outside at any point, and 2) early church architecture differed from pagan temple architecture deliberately in this manner. The pagan gods were to be worshiped out in the open, in their sight. Christians, on the other hand, had been acculturated to worshiping in secret, and as the religion grew and became accepted Christians deliberately differentiated themselves from pagans by (among other things) choosing the more cloistered basilica model for their holy spaces. Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 19, 2021 |
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Dec 19, 2021 15:23
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Bascilicas are literally Walmarts
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Dec 19, 2021 17:31
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euphronius posted:Bascilicas are literally Walmarts I wish Wal Marts had arcaded isles with apses, that would make them a lot more tolerable to be in
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Dec 19, 2021 19:11
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you are calling bascilicas secret cloistered places They were the Walmarts of their their time
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Dec 19, 2021 19:13
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Weka posted:It's possible some of the myth of beer over water for safety comes from the antibacterial action of hops towards gram positive bacteria, although of course this is irrelevant to the ancient world. I think it is just presentism. If I'm a neo-classicist in the long 19th century living in London I do not want to drink the water. If I'm living in the most civilized place in all of history then what were other people living like? They weren't drinking the water, that is for sure!
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Dec 19, 2021 19:20
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euphronius posted:you are calling bascilicas secret cloistered places Architecturally. And I suppose I should've clarified, basilicas of late antiquity were not the same of those that came before. Compare the Basilico Novo to the Basilica Julia, et al. edit: maybe poor terminology on my part. It seems like you're interpreting "cloistered" to mean "secret," I was just thinking more "indoors, separated from the world." Which, again, earlier basilicas would've been more exposed to the outside world, later ones (when Christianity was ascendant) definitely had a separation between the outside and in. Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 19, 2021 |
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Dec 19, 2021 19:38
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Vitruvian Manic posted:I think it is just presentism. If I'm a neo-classicist in the long 19th century living in London I do not want to drink the water. If I'm living in the most civilized place in all of history then what were other people living like? They weren't drinking the water, that is for sure! Actually by 1829 there was treated water available from the Chelsea waterworks and by 1855 all water in the metropolitan area was legally required to be effectively filtered. This was done using slow sand filters which are still used in London today.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:10
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Weka posted:Actually by 1829 there was treated water available from the Chelsea waterworks and by 1855 all water in the metropolitan area was legally required to be effectively filtered. This was done using slow sand filters which are still used in London today.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:31
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TipTow posted:No, I don't believe so--not for the Mausoleum, anyway. I'm not 100% certain on that, but 1) nothing in the interior architecture suggests those areas were open to the outside at any point, and 2) early church architecture differed from pagan temple architecture deliberately in this manner. The pagan gods were to be worshiped out in the open, in their sight. Christians, on the other hand, had been acculturated to worshiping in secret, and as the religion grew and became accepted Christians deliberately differentiated themselves from pagans by (among other things) choosing the more cloistered basilica model for their holy spaces. Interesting. The upstairs columnated spaces on that first image look like they were once balconies that later got closed off. If not, they're just... meaningless cruft. I guess that's kinda the definition of architecture though 
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Dec 20, 2021 02:21
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Vitruvian Manic posted:I think it is just presentism. If I'm a neo-classicist in the long 19th century living in London I do not want to drink the water. If I'm living in the most civilized place in all of history then what were other people living like? They weren't drinking the water, that is for sure! They don't live in a city, much less an enormously dense industrial city surrounded by miles of lesser urban residences and industry. Even in Tudor London it was recognized that Thames water was no good. At that time you could walk across the entire town in 15 minutes, and there was rural farmland separating Westminster from the City of London. There were just people hired to collect water daily from the Thames tributaries and bring it to the city centre.
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Dec 20, 2021 02:31
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cheetah7071 posted:https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g293974-d8051522-Reviews-Arch_Bistro-Istanbul.html lets not disregard tua mater
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Dec 20, 2021 02:50
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Nessus posted:Well if they only just got that going in London in the last few decades (and it will surely collapse due to the sand shortage) then obviously the water was never drinkable BEFORE then, anywhere. Yeah this. The process of getting London's water treated was protracted, often controversial, and would have been large in the mind of any historian operating at the time. Hell, germ theory still faced major opposition until the end of the century, and chlorination of London's water didn't start until the early 1900s.
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Dec 20, 2021 09:34
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My image of the first Portuguese encounter with the Japanese has the Japanese being absolutely amazed how at how loving filthy, smelly, and hairy they are. I'm actually kind of curious as to how China and Japan stacked up versus Europe in terms of cleanliness, both of the personal variety and the city variety.
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Dec 22, 2021 02:58
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They were also sailors, some weeks or months underway. Probably had more to do with it than personal habits. On Japanese waste management, I found a fun little paper. https://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/ejcjs/vol16/iss3/szczygiel.html
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Dec 22, 2021 03:31
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I've read that Japan was very clean but I am also super dubious about those accounts. Glorious Unspoiled Nihon always makes me suspicious.
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Dec 22, 2021 03:34
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Yeah sailors in northern waters really had zero opportunities to bathe. The ship's water was far too precious for frivolities like bathing.
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Dec 22, 2021 03:40
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Grand Fromage posted:I've read that Japan was very clean but I am also super dubious about those accounts. Glorious Unspoiled Nihon always makes me suspicious. Europe, especially Northern Eurioe, was also going through a decline in bathing culture at that time, due to many reasons, including deforestation, the onset of the Little Ice Age, and a residual fear of public bathhouses that was brought on by the Black Death.
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Dec 22, 2021 04:55
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I've never read about it in Japan's case but cleanliness was a pretty big thing in premodern Korea so it wouldn't at all surprise me. There's a kind of funny account from a Song Dynasty envoy to Goryeo; most of what he has to say about the country is pretty condescending, but:Xu Jing posted:In the old histories it is said that in Goryeo people are usually very clean. It remains so to this day. They always laugh about how dirty the Chinese are. When they get up in the morning they have to wash before going out the door. In the summer months they bathe again during the day. They gather in brooks and streams, without separating men and women, and all leave their clothes and hats on the bank. They do not find it strange to undress in the middle of the stream. Washing clothes and starching hemp fabric are all done by women. Whether day or night, they are diligent at this and do not dare call it labor. Among the not-destitute home cleanliness was similarly pretty highly emphasized, at least from what we know in Joseon. In Korea's case everything is done directly on the floor which surely contributed to that kind of culture, and that's basically true of Japan too isn't it? It's worth noting what different cultures consider clean is obviously kinda varied though -- in spite of being fastidious about personal hygiene, laundry, and keeping a tidy home, it seems like people in Joseon were a-ok with taking a poo poo directly in front of house guests, much to the horror of Western visitors. In Europe in contrast you get the rise of privacy as a thing even as there's a decline in bathing culture during the Early Modern (okay privacy is a huge deal in Korea too, but clearly applied in different ways). It's not like bathing daily is even objectively necessary, our present values maybe just happen to line up a bit better with premodern Korea and Japan than they would with Portuguese sailors.
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Dec 22, 2021 05:38
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Koramei posted:
Gotta make Lyndon Johnson an honorary Korean
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Dec 22, 2021 05:43
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TipTow posted:I thought about posting this in the travel subforum, but it unsurprisingly is not getting much traffic these days, and I've lurked this thread for several years and know if anyone would have suggestions they'd be in here: I lived in Istanbul for years. Definitely hit up the Basilica Cistern. Rumeli Castle is cool too. Eat at: https://culinarybackstreets.com/cities-category/istanbul/2013/siirt-seref-buryan/ It has awesome lamb cooked in a pit and is right under some ancient Roman aqueducts. The Great Palace Mosaic Museum has tons of cool old gnarly hunting scenes. If I may, some must-eats beyond the obvious stuff: - Balik Ekmek (Fish Sandwich) served by cart guys near the Eminonu Bridge. Tourists go to the boats packed with folks on the Old Quarter side, locals tend to hit up the guys who look like the Super Mario Bros on the other side. Kokorec: This is intestines cooked on a spit mixed with veggies and spices stuffed in bread. The closest thing it tastes like is a Philly Cheesteak, oddly enough. My favorite was Osmanli Kokorec on Tarlibasi Blvd. It's a late night place and popular with the trans prostitutes, but who knows nowadays since that whole area is getting gentrified. Melekler Kebab in Beyoglu ( Katip Mustafa Çelebi, İpek Sk) is my go-to budget grilled meat place. Get the cop sis porsiyon, awesome grilled morsels of beef and fat with all sorts of sides. Tantuni: A Beyoglu special, it's kind of like a Turkish taco filled with spiced meat and loads of cumin and arugula. Midye Dolma: Little stuffed mussel street food that's sold on the waterfronts and drinking areas. Addictive! You have to kind of schmooze with the guy (send the lady-charm offensive first) to get the best price, but it's part of the game. Cig Kofte: Little raw bulgur 'meatballs' wrapped in various things doused in awesome pomegranate stuff. Durumzade: It is covered in annoying photos after Bourdain went there and hyped it up, but he was correct in that it is one of the best grilled-meat-wrap places in the entire city. Go with the duble adana with ayran. The best doner in the city is honestly found in the Syrian joints - there is a whole street off Istiklal that is just packed with little Syrian doner joints and many of them are amazingly cheap and great. Turks generally don't gently caress with sauce on their doner except for ketchup + mayo (WHYYYY) but the Syrians roll with good garlic yogurt and spicy sauce. I recommend sleeping in Beyoglu, it has the interesting nightlife and lots of restaurants and such. From there it is easy to walk to Old Quarter on the scenic route, or stroll down to the docks and grab a boat to the Asian side or the Prince's Islands. My favorite of the islands is Heybeliada, from the dock you can walk to German beach (alman koyu). Tiny secluded spot that's a few km out of town on a scenic route packed with friendly stray dogs that will pace you, with awesome views from the cliffs. Thousands of mussels nest on the sea-bed, you can just swim out and grab them by the handful and bring them back to the beach where the chilled out drunk guy who has the tables will help you grill them up. Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 06:31
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I can't find any English language news source, but apparently Danish archeologists found a foot-chain from the Germanic iron age (400 AD), in Fæsted near the ancient power centre of Ribe. Analysis reveal that the iron came from a British scene, and so may constitute a smoking gun regarding slave taking in Scandinavia. Probably from Denmark to Rome, but anything is possible, really. This is very much my jam, and I thought you guys might find it interesting too.
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Dec 22, 2021 11:05
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A Festivus Miracle posted:My image of the first Portuguese encounter with the Japanese has the Japanese being absolutely amazed how at how loving filthy, smelly, and hairy they are. I'm actually kind of curious as to how China and Japan stacked up versus Europe in terms of cleanliness, both of the personal variety and the city variety. The Japanese art depictions when they first saw an Elephant after a Portuguese ship crash landed on the shore is pretty rad
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Dec 22, 2021 16:14
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I lived in Istanbul for years. Saving this for when I go soon.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:47
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Yeah post as many Istanbul tips as you got, I'm sure this thread is full of people who want to go sometime. I'm one of them.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:59
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Two years ago I had plans to go… 
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Dec 22, 2021 22:50
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I know it's touristy but I loved going to a whirling dervish performance while in Istanbul. "Watchtower of Turkey" had just been released when we started planning an Istanbul trip while teaching in Spain, and we basically just tried to do everything in that video. Unfortunately the security situation deteriorated while we were there, and there was a series of bombings, so we stayed in the proximity of Istanbul rather than traveling throughout the country. But I'd love to go back. https://vimeo.com/108018156
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Dec 23, 2021 15:35
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Make sure you get to see some tilework painted by Sinan. Dude was the Michelangelo of patterned tile motifs, and has painted several buildings around town. I saw his work on a small rooftop mosque near the old spice market, but a list of locations can probably be googled
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Dec 23, 2021 18:38
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah post as many Istanbul tips as you got, I'm sure this thread is full of people who want to go sometime. I'm one of them. Istanbul was Constantinople, now it's Istanbul not Constantinople.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:02
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I remember a hostel in Greece where a map on the wall had the name of Istanbul edited back and forth in pen like four times I corrected it to Koine Greek when no one was looking 
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Dec 24, 2021 11:49
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Please it’s İstanbul.
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Dec 24, 2021 12:15
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Also it’s literally the same name, Constantinopolis -> Stamboul -> İstanbul
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Dec 24, 2021 12:20
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Zopotantor posted:Also it’s literally the same name, Constantinopolis -> Stamboul -> İstanbul not quite Turkish name of Constantinople; it developed in Turkish 16c. as a corruption of Greek phrase eis tan (ten) polin "in (or to) the city," which is how the local Greek population referred to it.
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Dec 24, 2021 12:25
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Huh so it is essentially 'The City'? That seems very appropriate for the new Rome
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Dec 24, 2021 12:50
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I believe the closest translation is "Not Constantinople"
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Dec 24, 2021 12:58
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It's nobody's business but the Turks, anyway.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:47
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