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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Platystemon posted:Tooled up? They aren’t going to make you a new vaccine because you personally have a yucky feeling that you don’t like two doses and a booster to give strong protection and want them to make you special shots that you vibe better with.
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Dec 22, 2021 04:52
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It’s not me I’m worried about.
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Dec 22, 2021 04:54
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My understanding is approval of tweaks on the existing approved vaccines to address new variants can go through a massively shorter process. I guess the question is really, how much downtime do factories have to take to switch to a new mrna code. If I understand the tech correct, the answer should be almost none. All of the complexity in the machinery and supply chain has nothing to do with the actual mrna code that is inserted. So in theory they should be able to just come in one day and switch to a new one. If it takes several weeks or something to switch manufacturing over then sure, you'd have to be pretty careful about cost/benefit of switching too often. But if there is little or no switching cost, then the benefit/cost of switching to something better is extremely high.
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Dec 22, 2021 04:56
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DancingMachine posted:There's nothing bespoke though, there's no value for anybody in making a vaccines for wild type at this point. Yes, you have to flush the supply of the existing and switch manufacturing over and there would be a transition where you are still giving people sub-optimal (but still useful) wild-type vaccines, but that should be as short a period as possible. If a bunch of currently unvaccinated people end up getting their first does being one that is tailored to dominant variants, that is totally fine and in fact preferable. someone can correct me but I think the delta and omicron lineages are more different from each other than either one is from the vaccine strain, so if one of them doesn't die out that could be a reason to stick with the original vaccine.
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Dec 22, 2021 05:36
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jettisonedstuff posted:It depends how much more transmissible it is. It appears to be a lot more transmissible, so I would imagine any gains made from lack of lethality will be lost on the sheer infectiousness. The rise, here in the US, has been astronomical. And it has only been a very short period of time.
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Dec 22, 2021 06:20
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The variants shift too quickly and too unexpectedly for boosters to be done like the flu shot. The flu shot is predictive, and even with its slower tech you're vaxxing for known circulating flus in advance and missing almost as often as you hit. The covid vaccines are so-far reactive, and no matter how fast you go, you won't get the whole world 2-weeks-post-3rd-dose inside the lifespan of a variant. If we'd retooled for Delta, we might be actually worse off against omicron. The wild type is the sort of baseline covid so it's the most "generic" to vaccinate against.
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Dec 22, 2021 06:25
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DancingMachine posted:My understanding is approval of tweaks on the existing approved vaccines to address new variants can go through a massively shorter process. You can’t make material changes to medicines without the FDA getting involved.
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Dec 22, 2021 07:06
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Isn't 2 shots of an mRNA vaccine insanely effective at stopping you getting hospitalised/dead even against omicron, and three shots means you have excellent protection against even getting it why would they gently caress around doing a special bespoke one, that makes no sense some of you are acting as if the vaccines have suddenly stopped working
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Dec 22, 2021 07:15
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DancingMachine posted:My understanding is approval of tweaks on the existing approved vaccines to address new variants can go through a massively shorter process. Nah, I don't know much about the manufacturing side, but the safety process is still going to be complex for a new variant-specific vaccine because it introduces the possibility for new side effects. They can move fast, but the best-case scenario is still at least three months.
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Dec 22, 2021 07:15
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Alctel posted:Isn't 2 shots of an mRNA vaccine insanely effective at stopping you getting hospitalised/dead even against omicron, and three shots means you have excellent protection against even getting it You are completely incorrect regarding infection. Even with a booster, if you get exposed to omicron repeatedly, you're going to contract it sooner or later
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Dec 22, 2021 07:40
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Looking at what omicron has done to a Country like Denmark that has a 98% vaccination rate, Now where did you get that insane statistic. Ah, looking at it I think it's this one here. quote:Vaccination If you look at other sources, it's about 77% fully vaccinated, i.e. two doses, whereas about 82% has at least one shot in them. Granted, those are relatively high numbers. But there's a ridiculously high difference between having a chance of 2 percent to meet an unvaccinated person and picking one out of 5.
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Dec 22, 2021 07:49
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A big flaming stink posted:You are completely incorrect regarding infection. Even with a booster, if you get exposed to omicron repeatedly, you're going to contract it sooner or later if you get exposed to anything repeatedly you're eventually going to contract it three jabs gets you pretty decent protection from infection. that doesn't mean you can suck n gently caress in the bathroom at denny's carefree, it just means you have some substantial armor against infection
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Dec 22, 2021 07:54
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A booster works O.K., on paper and from the limited data available from the UK, at preventing the worst outcomes. Calling it “insanely effective” and “excellent” is an insult to every other vaccine ever developed, to the English language, and to the mentally ill. Speaking of differently abled folk, boosters may work O.K. for younger, immunompetent persons. There are, however, quite a lot of people whose bodies are less capable of brute‐forcing Omicron by throwing gobs of marginally effective antibodies at it. They could be greatly aided by a targeted shot that induces highly effective antibodies in concentrations that are more sustainable. Omicron‐targeted shots could also be great for everyone else if they increase the interval that people can go before needing yet another booster. The longer this interval is, the fewer sick days people will have from side effects, the higher vaccine uptake will be, and the more vaccine production capacity will be freed up for shots elsewhere.
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Dec 22, 2021 07:55
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Platystemon posted:Calling it “insanely effective” and “excellent” is an insult to every other vaccine ever developed, nah. see: this year's flu vaccine. idk why you have a need to awfulize/minimize the level of protection from booster shots when there's good evidence they confer much better protection than the first two shots. the answer is not "wring our hands and demand Pfizer and Moderna produce variant-specific boosters" it's "get boosted and take other precautions like we should've been" Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 07:57
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This year’s flu vaccine is fine against H1N1 and the two lineages of influenza B. We’re just asking too much of it.
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Dec 22, 2021 08:00
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Fritz the Horse posted:idk why you have a need to awfulize/minimize the level of protection from booster shots when there's good evidence they confer much better protection than the first two shots. I’m sorry, what? Three shots won’t bring protection against Omicron up to anything like the protection we enjoyed against Alpha or Delta.
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Dec 22, 2021 08:03
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You haven't answered why you're making GBS threads on efficacy of existing and available booster shots. That is not helpful advice for people reading this thread. Your posting is mostly good neutral informational stuff but every so often you engage in doomer hand-wringing nonsense and when called out on it whine about how everyone's being mean to you. e: Platystemon posted:I’m sorry, what? yes, and? edit2: I don't think the pissy back-and-forth is productive, feel free to PM me if ya like. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 08:05
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I do nothing of the sort. You have a bizarre caricature of me in your head.
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Dec 22, 2021 08:09
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Sheer antibody volume is not a viable long term solution for many reasons
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Dec 22, 2021 08:46
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It’s not “being mean” that I take issue with. It never has been. It’s the putting words in my mouth that I must protest. I have consistently been a proponent of the boosters. The boosters are great. I myself had a booster in me when this incarnation of the thread was started. It turns out that in some studied populations, they reduce deaths to Delta by ninety percent—ninety percent—not against the unvaccinated, but beyond the “fully vaccinated” of five months or more ago. Everyone should get a booster, and I have made that point many, many times. I even offered to mail someone a houseplant so that they would qualify under the CDC’s criterion of “inability to work or meet other personal obligations when infected, even if not severely ill with COVID-19”. The U.S. government and others should have done more to get boosters in arms months ago, and that has only gotten more pressing with the rise of Omicron. Platystemon posted:Don’t make appeals based on the perceived sinister motivations of the parties. Leave that to the antivaxxers. Fritz, I’m glad that your position on boosters has evolved, but you don’t have to paint me as an antiboost bandit. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 09:17
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Interesting pre-print: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1473380118475145216
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Dec 22, 2021 09:21
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Platystemon posted:Fritz, I’m glad that your position on boosters has evolved, but you don’t have to paint me as an antiboost bandit in some crusade to redeem yourself. I have never been anti-booster, how has my position "evolved?" You are simultaneously complaining about words being put in your mouth while you put some in mine. I don't give a poo poo about redeeming my internet cred. If people think my posts are bad and I'm full of poo poo they are welcome to say so itt or via PMs. I have a thick skin. At this point it's getting to be a petty back-and-forth so I'll just point out an example post I have an issue with and call it a night: Platystemon posted:A booster works O.K., on paper and from the limited data available from the UK, at preventing the worst outcomes. I'm immunocompromised. I was on a ventilator and almost died of viral+bacterial pneumonia in early 2020 pre-covid, I posted about it here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3966953&pagenumber=388&perpage=40&post519838911#post519838911 The notion that I'm somehow anti-booster and going after you for being an "antiboost bandit" is nonsensical. To your credit, most of what you post is great information. When you wax editorial it's often bullshit (imo) and when called on it instead of defending anything you say you get defensive and complain. I've said my peace and I don't particularly care to derail this thread more with our slapfight. I'm happy to correspond more via PMs. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 09:55
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Platystemon posted:A booster works O.K., on paper and from the limited data available from the UK, at preventing the worst outcomes. No, the vaccines ARE incredibly effective and excellent. I'm not sure how that is an insult to 'every other vaccine ever developed, to the English language, and to the mentally ill.' There are people this thread constantly throwing down statements like 'now the vaccines are useless' and it's complete nonsense and instead, apparently, the answer is to completely disrupt supply and manufacturing chains in order to possible claw a few percentage advantage with a bespoke vaccine
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Dec 22, 2021 10:05
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Alctel posted:So some anecdotal data, Also quoting myself from 5 days ago - cases are even higher, but the ICU ward in my town still isn't any fuller than it was when I made that post. Noticably down from a few months ago (over 90% of people here have 2 shots, virtually noone has 3 shots yet aside from some immunocompromised people and elderly). Alctel fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 10:08
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Wang Commander posted:Sheer antibody volume is not a viable long term solution for many reasons Cuius rei demonstrationem mirabilem sane detexi hanc marginis exiguitas non caperet.
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Dec 22, 2021 10:12
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Alctel posted:No, the vaccines ARE incredibly effective and excellent. I'm not sure how that is an insult to 'every other vaccine ever developed, to the English language, and to the mentally ill.' Using "insanely" as an adverb is a slur, and two doses of a MRNA vaccine is ~70% effective against hospitalisation, which I personally don't consider incredibly effective.
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Dec 22, 2021 10:41
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James Garfield posted:someone can correct me but I think the delta and omicron lineages are more different from each other than either one is from the vaccine strain, so if one of them doesn't die out that could be a reason to stick with the original vaccine. Omicron shares several mutations with Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta, in addition to several novel mutations of its own. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/16/omicron-variant-mutations-covid/ If, for instance, we had a vaccine that was 50/50 tailored to defeat Alpha and Gamma, which could easily have been formulated 6+ months ago, it would very likely be highly effective against Omicron. BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Nah, I don't know much about the manufacturing side, but the safety process is still going to be complex for a new variant-specific vaccine because it introduces the possibility for new side effects. They can move fast, but the best-case scenario is still at least three months. 3 months seems on the long end to me to establish safety and efficacy within the framework of the previous work already done in this vaccine. But sure, let's say you can't go any faster than that. Why do we not already have the vaccine described above, or one tailored to any of the dominant variants at this point? Seems like an awfully lethargic unhurried approach to a worldwide crisis to still be using the wild type vaccine in my opinion. These vaccines will only continue to erode in usefulness, and "guessing wrong" in terms of what variant(s) to target almost certainly only leads you to improving things less than you'd hoped to, rather than making things worse.
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Dec 22, 2021 10:56
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Fritz the Horse posted:if you get exposed to anything repeatedly you're eventually going to contract it Where did the frequent references to sucking and loving at denny's come from? Is there some goon backstory to this?
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Dec 22, 2021 11:22
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why else would anyone want the pandemic over?? afaik the entire backstory is just that people here have been joking about it since the first lockdowns Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 11:27
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Fritz the Horse posted:Most of this paragraph works to discredit the effectiveness of current vaccination/booster programs to combat Omicron. Your second line here is hyperbolic, fear-mongering nonsense, would you care to elaborate on or defend it? “Excellent” and “insanely” are intensifiers that are misplaced when applied to the efficacy of the first‐generation SARS‐CoV‐2 vaccines against Omicron  Rank every vaccine in the routine immunization schedule by efficacy and you will find that the first‐generation SARS‐CoV‐2 vaccines fall on the bottom half, certainly against transmission and symptomatic disease, likely on other measures. The clinical trial results of the mRNA vaccines placed them near the top, but that version of virus hasn’t been seen in the wild in over a year. We are fortunate that the vaccines work as well as they against a heavily mutated target, but let’s not oversell it.
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Dec 22, 2021 11:35
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Acquired immunity to the virus is unbelievably good. Over and over people whine and melt down at calling south africa's cases mild and point out that it isn't the virus that changed it's the past exposure and vaccinations. Then when they talk about vaccinations they claim vaccine was actually peepee poopoo bad, wears off instantly and barely works. But one thing or the other explains this graph, either the virus has started to suck so bad it can't kill anyone or immunity works so good it's not killing anyone: 
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Dec 22, 2021 12:40
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This seems relevant to this thread: Some Houston hospitals suspend COVID antibody treatments due to ineffectiveness against omicron Hospital quotes here: Memorial Hermann's full statement: posted:According to experts, the monoclonal antibody (MCA) therapies previously offered by Memorial Hermann – casirivimab, imdevimab (Regeneron), bamlanivimab and etesivimab (Eli Lilly) – lose most of their effectiveness when exposed to the omicron variant. Since these MCA therapies are not effective against the omicron variant, which is now the dominant strain in our region, like many other health systems, we have suspended these MCA therapies and are unable to accept new referrals at this time. Houston Methodist statement: posted:We stopped taking new referrals as of today and will finish up infusions with existing monoclonal drugs on Thursday. We are expecting the arrival of a very limited supply of sotrovimab this week. That is the monoclonal antibody treatment that is effective against Omicron. Pending receipt of the sotrovimab, we will start treating patients with that drug next week, prioritizing it to only those patients who are at the highest risk of hospitalization. St. Luke's Health statement: posted:St. Luke's Health is temporarily suspending its use of monoclonal antibodies in the treatment of COVID-19 patients. Our current monoclonal antibody inventory includes Regeneron and Eli Lily, which have been effective against prior strains of COVID-19, including the Delta variant. Recent studies show these have little to no activity against Omicron. Soltrovimab, however, does have activity against Omicron. We are working with the State to receive doses of this monoclonal antibody. Of course this is not a peer reviewed article, this isn't a preprint, these are area hospitals suspending treatment due to lack of effectiveness.
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Dec 22, 2021 14:21
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gay picnic defence posted:Where did the frequent references to sucking and loving at denny's come from? Is there some goon backstory to this? Came from a post lecturing people about continuing to be cautious after getting the vaccine, got adopted as a thread motto because it was funny Gio posted:yeah having some face to face contact is the exact same thing as letting everyone know once youre vaccinated youre going to throw all caution to the wind in the midst of the pandemic and start sucking and loving in a denny’s bathroom
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Dec 22, 2021 15:01
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Imagine getting pissed that someone hasn’t produced your designer 4th dose when 40% of the planet hasn’t gotten a single shot.
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Dec 22, 2021 15:12
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Shooting Blanks posted:This seems relevant to this thread: There are already several preprint articles describing the loss of monoclonal antibody efficacy, so this was to be expected. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.12.472269v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267772v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.472630v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.470392v1 This is bad news for the unvaccinated and immunocompromised. e: Does anyone know how far along Paxlovid is? Can it be produced more quickly than mAbs?
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Dec 22, 2021 15:14
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Why do we update the flu vaccine when most people don’t get that? Very privileged of us.
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Dec 22, 2021 15:17
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Platystemon posted:Why do we update the flu vaccine when most people don’t get that? “COVID is the same as the flu” Strong argument, I feel like I’ve seen it before but I can’t remember where.
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Dec 22, 2021 15:20
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Wow! A post in the Latin alphabet! You know who else used the Latin alphabet? That’s right: Hitler.
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Dec 22, 2021 15:22
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Low income countries should be first in line to get the updated vaccine, for free.
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Dec 22, 2021 15:22
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spankmeister posted:e: Does anyone know how far along Paxlovid is? Can it be produced more quickly than mAbs? Paxlovid is going to get approved this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/21/fda-approve-paxlovid-molnupiravir-covid-pills What would be great would be if an intranasal sars-cov-2 vaccine can be rolled out asap https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abj5129
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Dec 22, 2021 15:26
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