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Zalakwe posted:Oversee is the operative word here. He isn't actually going to do anything. It would be unwise to change horses midstream, he'll say, and ask Tories to continue.
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Dec 22, 2021 18:00
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ThomasPaine posted:Related to this, I was only seven when Blair came to power but did Thatcher/Major era popular culture have that same welfare-safari dole-shaming thread to it that became so common in the New Labour period? It's still about of course but way less intense than it used to be. Can blame for the eradication of prole solidarity actually be laid at Labour's feet, rather than Thatcher? I'm thinking of that old speech Reeves gave back in 2015 about the party not wanting to represent the unemployed etc.
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Dec 22, 2021 18:08
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I’m amazed that people are surprised at the elite and ruling class not following the rules, didn’t Jacob Rees Mog say something to the affect that the people who died in Grenfell were stupid for following the safety instructions? I can’t remember what his exact words were.
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Dec 22, 2021 18:09
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He wouldn't have stayed sat inside and would have run into the burning stairwell with hundreds of other people because he is very smart.
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Dec 22, 2021 18:13
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Don't forget Blair (PM from May 1997) had the 'Handling the death of Diana & plummet in popularity of the Royals' bounce in Aug/Sept 1997, just 4 months later. (Covid hit big time 4 months after GE2019) If ever there was a time to hold a referendum on the abolition of the monarchy, that week immediately following Diana's death and the Royals complete misreading of public sentiment would have been it. Guavanaut posted:He wouldn't have stayed sat inside and would have run into the burning stairwell with hundreds of other people because he is very smart. And now, because of that, people in our building - most of whom are over 80 and have some mobility issues - would try and get down one or other of the two stairs if there is a fire. Thank goodness I'm on the ground floor and with a bit of a squeeze could get through my living room window into the garden. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 18:18
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The Tories won’t let Boris lead them into another election now that he’s poison, so it’s all academic. They’ll switch for someone who hasn’t had enough time to become truly toxic in the public’s eyes and then Stamer’s “I’m not Boris” stance won’t be such a vote winner any more
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Dec 22, 2021 18:21
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willie_dee posted:I’m amazed that people are surprised at the elite and ruling class not following the rules, didn’t Jacob Rees Mog say something to the affect that the people who died in Grenfell were stupid for following the safety instructions? I can’t remember what his exact words were. I don't think anyone paying attention is really very surprised. I do think it's important that they put the govt on blast for it now there's proof, even though we all already knew, because the Tories massively benefit from a very large, often well-intentioned, but politically disengaged section of society that is easily swayed by 'they're just doing their best!' Pointing out naked cynicism and malice, particularly on very emotive issues that have caused real suffering to people usually insulated from standard-issue austerity measures, is potentially powerful. e: unfortunately, as it's almost certain all the political classes were having wine and cheese evenings throughout last Christmas, this quickly collapses back into 'they're all as bad as each other', and it's hard to argue otherwise. Almost like having a principled leader is an important thing, really. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 18:46
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https://twitter.com/GeorgeAylett/status/1473667072383201280?s=19 Lmao
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Dec 22, 2021 18:59
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Gonzo McFee posted:Lmao That looks more like a beer drinking animatronic made out of a faceless mannequin. So it probably is Starmer.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:02
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Man literally does nothing but drink.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:04
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Is this "step" scale a new one? How does it map to the Nando's one?
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Dec 22, 2021 19:06
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That video is a loving blur. He should just say "that's not me" and dare our dipshit media to try and prove it.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:07
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Lmao, the responses are incredible. The red team supporters are incredibly mad that someone is talking down their beige saviour.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:07
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Bobstar posted:Is this "step" scale a new one? How does it map to the Nando's one? Step 2: Went out drinking anyway lol.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:08
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OwlFancier posted:Man literally does nothing but drink. can you blame him tbh, he's in way out of his depth and he knows it
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Dec 22, 2021 19:11
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Tesseraction posted:That video is a loving blur. if there's one video there's probably more if he claims it's not him and then a better-quality one comes out he is done
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Dec 22, 2021 19:15
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Julio Cruz posted:if there's one video there's probably more That's the wonderful part isn't it, I hope it gets traction, it would be extremely funny to watch him squirm.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:23
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hahahahaha
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Dec 22, 2021 19:29
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Guavanaut posted:He wouldn't have stayed sat inside and would have run into the burning stairwell with hundreds of other people because he is very smart. Apply reasoning to rest of life, profit from dad's book that says the same, be a oval office. The Mogg method.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:41
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Julio Cruz posted:if there's one video there's probably more Yeah but who would be taking it, unless there's a video of someone behind the first guy taking the video? Like don't get me wrong, it's risky but it would be the funniest situation if he just tries "nah guv that's not me" and either no-one can prove it OR someone apparently does have the behind-the-other-guy video and he has to fall on his sword
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Dec 22, 2021 19:42
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So thats what Boris was talking about at last weeks PMQ's.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:47
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah but who would be taking it, unless there's a video of someone behind the first guy taking the video? it doesn't even have to be the same event, if he denies one video generally, and then a second video comes out from a different night, he's still hosed
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Dec 22, 2021 20:06
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah but who would be taking it, unless there's a video of someone behind the first guy taking the video? All those people inside also had cameras, you know. What I'm trying to say is that Starmer took a selfie video of himself that will also show a guy videoing him from the outside, proving the first video real. Starmer will mext send this video to press thinking it will exonerate him.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:07
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So you're telling me there's a chance that Boris and Keith might get the boot?
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Dec 22, 2021 20:11
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Convex posted:So you're telling me there's a chance that Boris and Keith might get the boot? I'd say it's pretty likely neither of them will be in charge for the next GE
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Dec 22, 2021 20:13
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*Streeting intensifies*
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Dec 22, 2021 20:16
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I would be surprised if keith goes, if reality was an obstacle to holding office then he would already be gone.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:21
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm thinking of that old speech Reeves gave back in 2015 about the party not wanting to represent the unemployed etc. Not a response to the main point of your post, but she said it again this year
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Dec 22, 2021 20:33
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ThomasPaine posted:Related to this, I was only seven when Blair came to power but did Thatcher/Major era popular culture have that same welfare-safari dole-shaming thread to it that became so common in the New Labour period? It's still about of course but way less intense than it used to be. Can blame for the eradication of prole solidarity actually be laid at Labour's feet, rather than Thatcher? I'm thinking of that old speech Reeves gave back in 2015 about the party not wanting to represent the unemployed etc. There's been swings. Polls and social attitude surveys suggest a welfare backlash in the late 1970s, a softening in the late 1980s, and another backlash in the late 1990s. I linked this the other day: https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/109878/1/Hudson_Lunt_et_al_2016b.pdf; you may also like https://www.poverty.ac.uk/system/files/poor_britain_book/poor-britain-chap07-Mack-Lansley.pdf: quote:The main explanation underlying the public’s discriminating outlook is that, even where they recognise that groups such as the unemployed and single parents face financial hardship, they have tended to view them with much less sympathy than pensioners and the disabled. So, not new, perhaps. Awareness of this feeling puts Stuart Hall penning The Great Moving Right Show in 1979 in context (to quote: "in the doctrines and discourses of "social market values" — the restoration of competition and personal responsibility for effort and reward, the image of the over-taxed individual, enervated by welfare coddling, his initiative sapped by handouts by the state — "Thatcherism" has found a powerful means of popularizing the principles of [its] philosophy: and in the image of the welfare "scavenger" a well designed folk-devil. The elaboration of this populist doctrine... represents the critical ideological work of constructing for "Thatcherism" a populist common sense. ") - that is, early Thatcher rather than late Thatcher/Major. (an obvious driving factor is the perceived party in power, or at least the party who wot set us up all this nonsense, although of course "elect a Tory government to fight the popularity of dole-shaming" is an odd proposition) Worth observing that as late as Sidney and Beatrice Webb, British Fabian socialism did not necessarily like the dole either - the Webbs were fierce critics of compulsory unemployment insurance as a Liberal idea, arguing instead that a National Labour Exchange should rationally plan the supply and demand for jobs/work (that is, a compulsory job market, like the Soviets would later realize, and voluntary insurance, instead of the voluntary job market and compulsory insurance as the welfare state would realize). But even the Webbs would see the tide British socialist thinking turn by the 1930s back in favour of the unemployment benefit.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:34
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Julio Cruz posted:I'd say it's pretty likely neither of them will be in charge for the next GE Streeting Vs Sunak, battle of the completely flavourless androids
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Dec 22, 2021 20:44
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the sex ghost posted:Streeting Vs Sunak, battle of the completely flavourless androids Battle of the Milibands
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Dec 22, 2021 20:46
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ronya posted:British Fabian socialism did not necessarily like the dole either - the Webbs were fierce critics of compulsory unemployment insurance as a Liberal idea What might be an interesting (especially in light of furlough) is how the Bismarckian system (you get x% of your last salary until you get back into work) compares against the Beveridgean system of a flat rate income floor in terms of public opinion. Any real world system probably needs some kind of combination of both, but it'd be interesting to see what kind of moral response they got (especially given "the UK was the only of nine European countries covered in the report in which respondents ranked 'laziness' as the top cause of poverty" in Hudson/Lunt).
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Dec 22, 2021 20:58
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Am I going mad or did this already come out a while ago
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Dec 22, 2021 21:10
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I've not seen it before, but there's definitely many other photos and videos of him getting drunk and nodding aimlessly. e: It does seem to be gnawing at the back of my mind now though, something familiar about it.
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Dec 22, 2021 21:16
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That party was mentioned a while back, but I don't think there was video evidence of it at the time. e: apparently the video did exist? https://twitter.com/LBwn3/status/1473686958526369793
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Dec 22, 2021 21:21
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Yeah back in May, sorry for the scum link https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14826418/keir-starmer-beer-indoor-gathering/ E:can see why they only released screenshots back then, that's a proper creepy vid 
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Dec 22, 2021 21:21
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it looks like there is a man from the 1970s eating a plate of food in the corridor 
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Dec 22, 2021 21:31
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Again not to defend the man, isn't there also a bit of a difference if this happened in April of 2021 as opposed to Christmas time 2020? Like one time was markedly worse for the public.
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Dec 22, 2021 21:53
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ThomasPaine posted:I genuinely don't know which is the worse option between asset stripping Tories and asset stripping Blairites who strip 10% fewer assets but also thoroughly discredit 'socialism' in the eyes of the public for the next two decades. I was a claimant for about 6 weeks back in 1982 (Thatcher PM) when a job I had a 1 year contract for ended but I had yet to find a new job. (1) the dole office 'lost my file' and 'could do nothing about it' - until I wrote a letter to my then MP Sidney Chapman, a tory, but funnily enough the day after he would have got the letter my file was magically found and I got my dosh (followed a few days later by a letter forwarded to me by my MP full of a load of lies from the local head of the DSS which I responded to my MP to inform him of the various lies therein. A few months later, a new flatmate who worked for the DSS (as it was then) and her friend who had also worked there told me that if they got an MP letter in the office, the entire office would cease operations until your file was found - because it generally was missing - and claim dealt with. (2) we would be kept hanging around for HOURS when signing on with everyone behind the counter disappearing. Flatmate who worked for the DSS told me that any counter staff showing any sympathy whatsoever to claimants would be swiftly removed from public-facing duties and making life uncomfortable (literally - no toilets, heavy smokey atmosphere, random disappearances of all counter staff) was policy (3) DSS counter staff were so thick they would write along a ruler and fill in forms so slowly and I'd have to spell everything out - my real name has a slighly unusual way of spelling it, I said to one - let me have the form and I'll fill it in myself (it would have taken about an hour less time that way). Nope, they have to assume every claimant is a dummy and do it for them. Some 15 years later: (4) I went into the Job Centre in about 1997 (Blair PM) as I had been told to go there by whatever version of DSS/DWP were on to find out* how to register to pay National Insurance contributions for self-employed and the person who everyone had to see who hadn't been before - mostly claimants - was ignoring everyone, went over to some other colleagues just to chat for ages (and we could hear the conversation it was totally about what he was doing for the weekend), he kept looking at us in that way that people who are talking badly about you in a group and want you to know look at you. Most of the people in the queue were job seekers, but some of us were there to find out how to register to give the govt money! Absolutely pig ignorant. I can't help feeling that too was deliberate policy. So yeah, it's always been policy to treat claimants like poo poo. *pre-internet for almost everyone and google didn't exist. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 21:56
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The Question IRL posted:Again not to defend the man, isn't there also a bit of a difference if this happened in April of 2021 as opposed to Christmas time 2020? Like one time was markedly worse for the public. It's still demonstrative of the same mindset. "I'm too important for the rules to apply to me". And for the leader of the party that's supposed to represent working class people, it's arguably worse; we already know the tories don't have any solidarity with or empathy for normal people
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Dec 22, 2021 22:00
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