|
Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:if I was the type of person who would be emotionally scarred by oblique references to things that happened in children's fantasy novels, i would simply not read the internet threads devoted to discussing their adaptation We get it. You don't care about spoilers. You don't have to be an rear end in a top hat because other people do care. You aren't a better person because you don't care about spoilers.
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:if I was the type of person who would be emotionally scarred by oblique references to things that happened in children's fantasy novels, i would simply not read the internet threads devoted to discussing their adaptation You're such a bad rear end for ruining other people's fun. Fuckin hard core.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 19:28
|
|
|
Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:if I was the type of person who would be emotionally scarred by oblique references to things that happened in children's fantasy novels, i would simply not read the internet threads devoted to discussing their adaptation Cool man, that's pretty badass.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:if I was the type of person who would be emotionally scarred by oblique references to things that happened in children's fantasy novels, i would simply not read the internet threads devoted to discussing their adaptation Yes, I too throw hissy fits when someone asks me to follow the thread rules.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:04
|
|
|
How do we feel about the dude who shouted the ending of the Harry Potter book at the kids queuing up to buy it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
This thread is exhausting
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:22
|
|
|
Umbra Dubium posted:How do we feel about the dude who shouted the ending of the Harry Potter book at the kids queuing up to buy it? Hero of our time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
tsob posted:Well, it's not, because social media interaction is how Parrot Analytics measure the demand for the show from what I gather. And Wheel of Time has been at or near the top of their streaming only list since it started. It only falls about mid way on the top ten of all US television full stop, but it's only things like Spongebob Squarepants, South Park, Game of Thrones and SNL that rank higher on a regular basis. Here's the charts for the last two weeks they give data for, for instance. huh! genuinely surprised by this (and if anyone can pull apart what they actually mean by "demand," i'd be appreciative; curious how exactly one incorporates fan wiki activity into a metric). this is interesting and makes me think that maybe a better way to frame my (vague, unsupported) feeling is that it's not breaking through with gatekeepers. it's very interesting to compare to other shows on these lists; the flash and walking dead are both hugely popular but, i'd say in terms of ongoing cultural impact, largely dead. but of course "cultural impact" is a fake term that just describes my feelings. i am guided, honestly, by my inability to find interesting discussion around the show. I enjoy reading other people's reactions and critical analysis of shows generally, whatever I'm watching, and i've found the conversation around WoT anemic, partly due I think to the fact that a lot of the most vocal people are bookreaders (who, no offense to bookreaders, often have incredibly boring takes about these shows lol, and that was true for game of thrones as well; it's much more interesting to analyze something in its own right than talk about how excited you are for book moments or argue over if the show's correctly conveying your favorite minor character beat. turns out "WAFO" is actually a great way to kill any kind of interesting conversation! this thread would have better discussion if bookreaders were simply barred from it, tbh, and not even really because of spoilers), and partly because i'm a jaded dweeb who finds modern fandom interactions with media mostly uninteresting. wheel of time hasn't even generated Discourse, which to me is the lowest possible bar for interesting conversations around a media property (I realize this is not a popular or common stance). Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Dec 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
Again, feel free to make a fourth thread for your only TV show watchers if you find this thread tedious.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
Valentin posted:i am guided, honestly, by my inability to find interesting discussion around the show. I enjoy reading other people's reactions and critical analysis of shows generally, whatever I'm watching, and i've found the conversation around WoT anemic, Yeah this is an issue but I'm not sure it's fatal. The problem is that almost any discussion runs into either "WAFO" or "Well, in the books . . ." pretty quickly. There are a fairly large number of people doing "first time reactions" to the show but that has the same problem as other such things -- some of it's overdramatized, some if it's faked, etc. Thing is the other side of that coin is that there's a completed storyline of material to draw from so as long as the showrunners don't gently caress up we'll never have the season 8 GoT "poo poo, we ran out of book" problem I think one limiting factor on the show's popularity is that Amazon Prime is just a smaller service, not as many people have it, so not as many are discussing the show despite its success. The other might be that the audience is older apparently and thus just less active online.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
it's kind of a wash because if someone felt like it they could just post a long list of story spoilers and the most important plot beats because i doubt there'd be any actual repercussions for them doing it and in the meanwhile you'd have multiple posters being smug weirdos about it
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
Valentin posted:huh! genuinely surprised by this (and if anyone can pull apart what they actually mean by "demand," i'd be appreciative; curious how exactly one incorporates fan wiki activity into a metric). this is interesting and makes me think that maybe a better way to frame my (vague, unsupported) feeling is that it's not breaking through with gatekeepers. I don't really understand how they measure stuff, as I said, but my vague understanding is that it's more how much discussion is generated on social media hubs like Twitter than something like a wiki. I'd assume Facebook, Snapchat, TikTok etc. fall in there too, but I barely pay attention to social media in general, so beyond knowing the names of a few I'm already somewhat lost going in. Valentin posted:i am guided, honestly, by my inability to find interesting discussion around the show. I enjoy reading other people's reactions and critical analysis of shows generally, whatever I'm watching, and i've found the conversation around WoT anemic, partly due I think to the fact that a lot of the most vocal people are bookreaders (who, no offense to bookreaders, often have incredibly boring takes about these shows lol, and that was true for game of thrones as well; it's much more interesting to analyze something in its own right than talk about how excited you are for book moments or argue over if the show's correctly conveying your favorite minor character beat. turns out "WAFO" is actually a great way to kill any kind of interesting conversation! this thread would have better discussion if bookreaders were simply barred from it, tbh, and not even really because of spoilers), and partly because i'm a jaded dweeb who finds modern fandom interactions with media mostly uninteresting. I don't honestly entirely disagree with you, even as a bookreader. I like having this thread as a place to talk about the show, but I constantly find myself second guessing anything I want to post, because while I definitely don't want to post anything spoilery (but have on occasion), I also find myself starting to reply to things and then going "no, that's probably spoilery". As someone who's read 2/3rs of the books (roughly), I find myself wanting to reply to something and then deciding that I shouldn't, because even when trying to answer as honestly as I can as someone just watching the show, the knowledge of what I know will (probably) happen taints any reply I want to make. I can't ever have a show only opinion on something, because foreknowledge has already colored any information I have. So I mostly try to reply with supplementary information, rather than any direct discussion on events. I'm about 1/3rd of the way through the second book at the moment, so hopefully by the time the second season (or maybe third season) comes out I can graduate to the book thread for more in-depth discussion, and be happy with supplementary discussion here. It's still nice to see what people are saying in here for the moment though. One thing I will say for the books versus the show, at least so far, is that while I haven't read any of the books in 15 odd years I'm already finding myself going "huh, there's a nice little bit of foreshadowing for x thing that happens later on", and some of it is things that don't happen for several books. Which is not something I'm really seeing too much of with the show, so it feels more immediate, but something that'd be less rewarding on re-watches. Now, obviously the show might be setting up some different things so any book foreknowledge could be misleading in that context and maybe I'm just not seeing it if it is there, and it's possible the faster pace the show has had to stick to for production reasons mean that it'd be harder to fit some of it in, but it does feel like the show is a bit lesser now that I'm reading the books again. I would hope that the show's success will allow the creators a bit more flexibility in episode or season length so they can have more slow scenes that make that kind of thing easier to do though. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 20:59
|
|
|
ONE YEAR LATER posted:Again, feel free to make a fourth thread for your only TV show watchers if you find this thread tedious. It's less that and more certain losers getting super mad that some people don't like spoilers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
Valentin posted:i am guided, honestly, by my inability to find interesting discussion around the show. I enjoy reading other people's reactions and critical analysis of shows generally, whatever I'm watching, and i've found the conversation around WoT anemic, partly due I think to the fact that a lot of the most vocal people are bookreaders (who, no offense to bookreaders, often have incredibly boring takes about these shows lol, and that was true for game of thrones as well; it's much more interesting to analyze something in its own right than talk about how excited you are for book moments or argue over if the show's correctly conveying your favorite minor character beat. turns out "WAFO" is actually a great way to kill any kind of interesting conversation! this thread would have better discussion if bookreaders were simply barred from it, tbh, and not even really because of spoilers), and partly because i'm a jaded dweeb who finds modern fandom interactions with media mostly uninteresting. wheel of time hasn't even generated Discourse, which to me is the lowest possible bar for interesting conversations around a media property (I realize this is not a popular or common stance). this is the most accurate feeling posted itt imo. I've watched a pretty big selection of folks talking about the show on youtube (who haven't read the books, to be clear) and it seems like 90% of the comments on their posts are from book people. A straight up no book reader posts at all fuckoff thread would be good, but it's hard to even envision that because it feels like the same 90% ratio of book reader to show only people holds true here, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
Valentin posted:huh! genuinely surprised by this (and if anyone can pull apart what they actually mean by "demand," i'd be appreciative; curious how exactly one incorporates fan wiki activity into a metric). this is interesting and makes me think that maybe a better way to frame my (vague, unsupported) feeling is that it's not breaking through with gatekeepers. it's very interesting to compare to other shows on these lists; the flash and walking dead are both hugely popular but, i'd say in terms of ongoing cultural impact, largely dead. but of course "cultural impact" is a fake term that just describes my feelings.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:04
|
|
|
it's interesting because even when book fans are trying not to spoil i'm sure they're spoiling things. e.g. in a world where the books didn't exist I think you'd see people talking about, say, the fact that Lan and Moiraine scenes are consistently far more interesting and compelling as a dynamic than anything with Lan and Nynaeve (sorry! and to be clear not even in a romantic way, just like. the show seems very convinced nynaeve and lan is interesting to watch and it's struggling against the fact that his scenes with Moiraine are infinitely more compelling). but since book readers anticipated those two getting together and started tweeting gifs of their scenes together from pretty much the second the show started, it guided the way people thought about it. it's a fairly intractable problem, and not one I'm sure is solvable on the SA thread level, but it's interesting. the other problem is that it's actually just not possible to talk about this season without book knowledge. I've only read TEOTW, but have still found it incredibly useful for backfilling character motivations and thoughts because the show is giving basically nothing. it's pretty hard to have an ongoing discussion beyond reactions to big moments when you lack either the world knowledge or character knowledge to make insightful comments, and the show (for all that I have enjoyed it!) is not really giving much of either. for my non-bookreading partner, the show is basically just an uninterrupted sequence of Surprising New Information, so there's little to analyze. Only Moiraine (and by extension, Lan) even approaches a level of comprehensibility, but it's actually still not really clear what she wants as a person, or why, aside from finding the Dragon Reborn. e: the positioning of the Dragon Reborn question as a driving question for the season is a perfect example of this. we know there's a fated mythical figure, we know they're supposed to be a certain age, we know they can cast magic. and that's it! absent any more information about prophecies (Moiraine keeps referencing them, but we've yet to hear any), or an understanding of what being the Dragon Reborn might mean to any of these people, there's just nothing to say about it. And bookreaders can't do anything but give a big exaggerated wink whenever the issue comes up. so there was nothing to say about it until the show told us who it was, at which point there's nothing else to say about it because there's no time to delve into what it means, we have a finale to get to. Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Dec 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Valentin posted:huh! genuinely surprised by this (and if anyone can pull apart what they actually mean by "demand," i'd be appreciative; curious how exactly one incorporates fan wiki activity into a metric). this is interesting and makes me think that maybe a better way to frame my (vague, unsupported) feeling is that it's not breaking through with gatekeepers. it's very interesting to compare to other shows on these lists; the flash and walking dead are both hugely popular but, i'd say in terms of ongoing cultural impact, largely dead. but of course "cultural impact" is a fake term that just describes my feelings. Parrot Analytics doesn't give their exact stuff (since its literally what their entire business is based on), we know it includes:
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:24
|
|
|
The Algorithm knows what is popular, do not question The Algorithm.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
parrot is a really strange choice for the name of an analytics company. on the nose but in a negative way
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 21:38
|
|
|
Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:parrot is a really strange choice for the name of an analytics company. on the nose but in a negative way It's better than that one dude who named his totally not evil facial recognition/CCTV company Palantir.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
So, according to a new interview with an Amazon Exec:Interivew posted:TVLINE: How soon after a show like Wheel of Time premieres do you at the office see things trending in such a very right direction? So, it sounds like WoT is actually picking up steam rather than losing it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 22:12
|
|
|
Valentin posted:the other problem is that it's actually just not possible to talk about this season without book knowledge. I've only read TEOTW, but have still found it incredibly useful for backfilling character motivations and thoughts because the show is giving basically nothing. it's pretty hard to have an ongoing discussion beyond reactions to big moments when you lack either the world knowledge or character knowledge to make insightful comments, and the show (for all that I have enjoyed it!) is not really giving much of either. for my non-bookreading partner, the show is basically just an uninterrupted sequence of Surprising New Information, so there's little to analyze. Only Moiraine (and by extension, Lan) even approaches a level of comprehensibility, but it's actually still not really clear what she wants as a person, or why, aside from finding the Dragon Reborn. Yeah, the showrunner's attitude seems to basically be "keep poo poo moving and exploding all the time, the people who care about [EDIT -- more detailed] explanations will look at the x-ray material or go read the book". Which I mean is probably fair. The show doesn't have to actually explain all that much, so long as the answers are *there* and internally consistent enough that people who want the answers can either find them or construe / deduce them without causing obvious problems or plot holes. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
Valentin posted:it's interesting because even when book fans are trying not to spoil i'm sure they're spoiling things. e.g. in a world where the books didn't exist I think you'd see people talking about, say, the fact that Lan and Moiraine scenes are consistently far more interesting and compelling as a dynamic than anything with Lan and Nynaeve (sorry! and to be clear not even in a romantic way, just like. the show seems very convinced nynaeve and lan is interesting to watch and it's struggling against the fact that his scenes with Moiraine are infinitely more compelling). but since book readers anticipated those two getting together and started tweeting gifs of their scenes together from pretty much the second the show started, it guided the way people thought about it. it's a fairly intractable problem, and not one I'm sure is solvable on the SA thread level, but it's interesting. I kinda find this pretty condescending, honestly. The idea that people can't actually be enjoying the show for the characters or the story but are just being amused by shiny effects and shocking twists, especially when it's not massively supported by the material that's there. There's absolutely character and motivation being experessed, it's just being done in, what people always claim they want, a 'show' not 'tell' situation. Nynaeve wants to protect these dumb kids because they're all she has from home, and also wants Lan cuz look at him. Egwene wants to be Special and to be an Aes Sedai. Perrin is torn over both killing his wife and his conflicted feelings for Egwene and if that's a betrayal of her memory. Mat wants to get back to his sisters by any means necessary. Rand's been a little more opaque but his struggle is apparently with this big Destiny that's been thrust upon him. And probably the Aiel thing will come up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:I kinda find this pretty condescending, honestly. The idea that people can't actually be enjoying the show for the characters or the story but are just being amused by shiny effects and shocking twists, especially when it's not massively supported by the material that's there. There's absolutely character and motivation being experessed, it's just being done in, what people always claim they want, a 'show' not 'tell' situation. Nynaeve wants to protect these dumb kids because they're all she has from home, and also wants Lan cuz look at him. Egwene wants to be Special and to be an Aes Sedai. Perrin is torn over both killing his wife and his conflicted feelings for Egwene and if that's a betrayal of her memory. Mat wants to get back to his sisters by any means necessary. Rand's been a little more opaque but his struggle is apparently with this big Destiny that's been thrust upon him. And probably the Aiel thing will come up. Exactly. For the most part, people who haven't read the books seem to be giving the same reads as to character personalities and motivations as those who have, as near as I can tell. That suggests the information is there and conveyed, even if not at the same level of detail.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
I rewatched the last episode and Rand's actions in Fal Dara are really interesting on review when you know he's struggling with being the Dragon Reborn. Like the big CW drama scene comes about right after Rand stating he can't lose anyone else - he's clearly realising what he has to do but is focusing on the teenage crap so he doesn't have to think about it. Then when he makes up with Egwene and says he'll be her Warder it totally comes across like he's bullshitting her with a happy story so he can leave her on a positive note. There's some really good nuance there
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 23:09
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:I kinda find this pretty condescending, honestly. The idea that people can't actually be enjoying the show for the characters or the story but are just being amused by shiny effects and shocking twists, especially when it's not massively supported by the material that's there. There's absolutely character and motivation being experessed, it's just being done in, what people always claim they want, a 'show' not 'tell' situation. Nynaeve wants to protect these dumb kids because they're all she has from home, and also wants Lan cuz look at him. Egwene wants to be Special and to be an Aes Sedai. Perrin is torn over both killing his wife and his conflicted feelings for Egwene and if that's a betrayal of her memory. Mat wants to get back to his sisters by any means necessary. Rand's been a little more opaque but his struggle is apparently with this big Destiny that's been thrust upon him. And probably the Aiel thing will come up. tbh I've always hated screeching about "show don't tell" in tv threads because, turns out, a lot of folks watching ARE dumb as hell and need it shown. There's also plenty of times when showrunners think they're being cute by dancing around something that should actually be spelled out. I think this show is putting on a good example though. It is doing "show don't tell" well, and providing material to people who are watching critically, and showing off plenty of people who I guess were watching while on their phone or something too, idk.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
Gwaihir posted:a lot of folks watching ARE dumb as hell and need it shown I don't know how you could possibly have this idea *goons brigade the thread confused about facts that were made explicitly clear in the latest episode*
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 23:12
|
|
|
Rarity posted:I don't know how you could possibly have this idea CainFortea posted:I honestly can't tell if i'm being punked.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 23:33
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:I kinda find this pretty condescending, honestly. The idea that people can't actually be enjoying the show for the characters or the story but are just being amused by shiny effects and shocking twists, especially when it's not massively supported by the material that's there. There's absolutely character and motivation being experessed, it's just being done in, what people always claim they want, a 'show' not 'tell' situation. Nynaeve wants to protect these dumb kids because they're all she has from home, and also wants Lan cuz look at him. Egwene wants to be Special and to be an Aes Sedai. Perrin is torn over both killing his wife and his conflicted feelings for Egwene and if that's a betrayal of her memory. Mat wants to get back to his sisters by any means necessary. Rand's been a little more opaque but his struggle is apparently with this big Destiny that's been thrust upon him. And probably the Aiel thing will come up. i mean reasonable people can disagree (and I don't think characters have to be very deep for anyone to watch or enjoy a show for its characters; nor do I think it's a failing to enjoy a show with flat characters), and my read is probably unfairly narrow in some respects, but all of the bolded are things we've been pretty explicitly told in the 7 hours of runtime we already have. and it's not even very deep stuff for all that screentime, nor has there been much movement. Mat's the easiest example of this, because his arc gets interrupted just before episode 7 by unfortunate outside circumstances. In the six episodes he appears in, what we learn about Mat is that he comes from a bad home; cares for his sisters, and wants money to support them; is more likely than any of the others to make a joke in response to a stressful situation; and then he is possessed by an evil magic dagger. He and Rand are ostensibly (best?) friends, but despite traveling together for [weeks? a month? I'm sure they said but I don't remember], I couldn't actually tell you anything about how they relate to each other, in part because Rand was busy dourly processing information he learns in the first episode that we don't get until much later. it feels pretty clear from episode 7 itself that they felt obliged to go back in and retroactively explain how everyone feels about and relates to Mat because there's simply no way we could have guessed as an audience prior to that point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
Just saw this while rewatching episode 3 (40:31): Did we all miss that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 00:30
|
|
|
DTurtle posted:Just saw this while rewatching episode 3 (40:31): It's been memed a lot since it happened. Stuff like "Ladies is it gay to moan out your girlfriend's name while comatose?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 00:32
|
|
|
Yeah I remember some showwatchers thought she said "Susan" and people thought it was hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 00:57
|
|
|
i don't think people talked about it much because for show-only people it has no context until you actually meet her in episode 6 and for book readers it's not that much of a surprise but you also don't have reason to talk about it since doing so would be out of line
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 01:00
|
|
|
Rarity posted:I rewatched the last episode and Rand's actions in Fal Dara are really interesting on review when you know he's struggling with being the Dragon Reborn. Like the big CW drama scene comes about right after Rand stating he can't lose anyone else - he's clearly realising what he has to do but is focusing on the teenage crap so he doesn't have to think about it. Then when he makes up with Egwene and says he'll be her Warder it totally comes across like he's bullshitting her with a happy story so he can leave her on a positive note. There's some really good nuance there I'm trying to remember, doesn't he say that in the books at some point? I just can't remember if it's before or after it's clearly Not Gonna Happen, or if I'm just remembering something else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 13:44
|
|
|
Test Pattern posted:I'm trying to remember, doesn't he say that in the books at some point? I just can't remember if it's before or after it's clearly Not Gonna Happen, or if I'm just remembering something else. Information from the end of book 1, which is probably safe to read if you’ve already watched the season finale: Rand still thinks he can be Egwene’s warder pretty late into the book. But once he channels saidin to defeat the Big Bad, he figures that he probably shouldn’t go to Tar Valon to train to become a warder, so that plan gets nixed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
9 hours until the finale 
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 15:59
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Realistic medieval fighting is boring as gently caress to watch, there's a reason films and TV shows don't do it that's probably not true. and it's beyond a doubt that fights creating the illusion of being realistic are almost always praised.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
Crespolini posted:that's probably not true. and it's beyond a doubt that fights creating the illusion of being realistic are almost always praised. It's definitely not true, and we know it's not true because "realistic" medieval fighting was so exciting to watch that it was the most exciting spectator sport for centuries, complete with prizes, cheerleaders, and endorsement deals.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 17:27
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's definitely not true, and we know it's not true because "realistic" medieval fighting was so exciting to watch that it was the most exciting spectator sport for centuries, complete with prizes, cheerleaders, and endorsement deals. Is that due to the fighting or due to what happens as a result of the fighting? Is it possible to separate the fighting from the injury/death/bloodsport aspects?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
Probably looks a bit poo poo in the hyper steroided medium of TV though. A good example is the Hal v Hotspur fight in The King.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 17:33
|
|