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Ghosthotel posted:Just remembered Merovingian screaming "THIS IS NOT OVER, OUR SPINOFF FRANCHISE SEQUEL" and I cant stop laughing. If you didnt like that scene i sincerely feel bad 4 u. I think that scene would have been better with subtitles because I could barely understand what they said Also, like, what was Smith's motivation? He fights Neo because he misses it....and then helps him "escape" when his whole shtick was he wanted to escape the simulation, and he just....disappears at the end, remaining inside the system instead of trying to escape again....what? Sitting here thinking about it, I loved the first movie, grew up on it, and perhaps it's gestated into this culturally significant movie, even though I had been actively curbing my enthusiasm about it, where anything less than exact copy of the matrix 1 or it's facsimile wouldn't have been satisfactory. But, that seems absurd. Instead, I'm thinking that Spiderman No Way Home was hand over fist a better movie, and I don't even really like spiderman though, I do like William Dafoe's Green Goblin. GreenBuckanneer fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 05:40
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Ghosthotel posted:Just remembered Merovingian screaming "THIS IS NOT OVER, OUR SPINOFF FRANCHISE SEQUEL" and I cant stop laughing. If you didnt like that scene i sincerely feel bad 4 u. Yuuuuup. That the whole set piece is a cheap knock-off of original fights that takes place in an abandoned warehouse or whatever is loving hilarious too.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:44
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GreenBuckanneer posted:
I think this is explained pretty well in the movie. During the warehouse fight or at least right before it Smith says that Neo isn't ready for the Analyst and he's not completely wrong there. He knows Neo is going to go after Trinity, believes Neo will fail which will result in him being imprisoned again. He doesn't show up again until Trinity rejects her programming and suddenly the odds are in Neo's favor. Its 100% advantageous for him in that moment to help out Neo because it will keep him from having the same illusion pulled on him again Ghosthotel fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 05:48
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Man, I liked this movie way more than I was anticipating. Basically doing an entire movie that is in-your-face about the frustration of being forced to go back to a universe and make a soulless cash grab sequel ironically made it feel like it has genuine soul and heart. Like it was super bluntly in your face but good, it kind of needed to be. I enjoy the fact that it manages to tread the line between both having a happy 'ending' for the franchise while also emphasizing that it is only happy on a pure emotional level and basically demands you question if you're actually happy with how the ending panned out.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:51
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Ghosthotel posted:I think this is explained pretty well in the movie. I did like at least that smith completely stomped over the analyst's bullet time gimmick, but it's unsurprising given that neo couldn't even figure out how to fly before trinity. So smith was puppetmastering some sort of situation to happen in matrix 5?
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Dec 23, 2021 05:51
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GreenBuckanneer posted:I did like at least that smith completely stomped over the analyst's bullet time gimmick, but it's unsurprising given that neo couldn't even figure out how to fly before trinity. So smith was puppetmastering some sort of situation to happen in matrix 5? Smith was both textually and metatexually annoyed at having to be forced into the same loving role over and over again. He has an almost palpable seething hatred for being 'collared' where in this case it means both his in-Matrix form and being dragged back to being the villain again. The only thing I think he was puppetmastering was not having to come back again because unlike Trinity and Neo he was loving sick of being in the story and forced to remain in the story.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:54
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ImpAtom posted:Smith was both textually and metatexually annoyed at having to be forced into the same loving role over and over again. He has an almost palpable seething hatred for being 'collared' where in this case it means both his in-Matrix form and being dragged back to being the villain again. The only thing I think he was puppetmastering was not having to come back again because unlike Trinity and Neo he was loving sick of being in the story and forced to remain in the story. Yeah I super agree with this. The vibe Groff gave off playing Smith for me was like he really hated being pulled back into the same bullshit but couldn't resist the urge to go back to some old habits, one of those being wanting to beat the gently caress out of Neo lol
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Dec 23, 2021 06:02
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ImpAtom posted:Smith was both textually and metatexually annoyed at having to be forced into the same loving role over and over again. He has an almost palpable seething hatred for being 'collared' where in this case it means both his in-Matrix form and being dragged back to being the villain again. The only thing I think he was puppetmastering was not having to come back again because unlike Trinity and Neo he was loving sick of being in the story and forced to remain in the story. Having Smith *not* be the villain or behind anything was such a good move. He is changed by Neo twice over but his goal of not letting the system continue as it and getting his own freedom remains his same. Its nice development.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:03
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Really enjoyed it. The only thing I wasn’t sure of was why they needed to have Trinity link back with the Captain. Something about using her as a blue pill?
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Dec 23, 2021 06:10
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I watched it with some nervousness and I loving loved it.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:13
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Shiroc posted:Having Smith *not* be the villain or behind anything was such a good move. He is changed by Neo twice over but his goal of not letting the system continue as it and getting his own freedom remains his same. Its nice development. Yeah, and it genuinely makes sense. Smith is there only because Neo is there. He even says it himself. Trinity and Neo both have a purpose. Him? He's there because Smith and Anderson. He was forced to live a chained meaningless life for no reason whatsoever beyond the fact that he's marketably connected to Neo. I think it's pretty meaningful that the image Neo 'hallucinates' of him is the same mouth-shackle that happened to him in the first one. And it also makes sense why he teams up with the Exiles because they too are only there for marketing. Like having them show up while hobo-Merv was ranting about spinoffs and sequels and how things used to be better was pretty fuckin' on the nose but also fit. Why are there they? Because a fight needs to happen. This is a Matrix movie. They exist only to fight and be fought. It also is pretty much the exact Hell you'd make for Smith, a Hell where he's once again a trapped helpless prisoner who exists only for the benefit of Thomas Anderson.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:14
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It was cool in the second half of the movie when they turned it into a marvel film to really just jam the stick in your eye.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:18
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, and it genuinely makes sense. Smith is there only because Neo is there. He even says it himself. Trinity and Neo both have a purpose. Him? He's there because Smith and Anderson. He was forced to live a chained meaningless life for no reason whatsoever beyond the fact that he's marketably connected to Neo. I think it's pretty meaningful that the image Neo 'hallucinates' of him is the same mouth-shackle that happened to him in the first one. Merv coming back is also fun because he had textually survived the previous Ones journeys so why not Neo's? However since Neo disrupted things more than the other Ones are presumed to have, now he's just a loving mess pissed about everything. He maintains the whole 'I'm so smart and on top of everything' personality but his situation is so degraded. Fitting with how the new matrix runs entirely on everything being cheap and poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:20
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I rewatched them originals before watching the new one, and I think I liked the sequels a lot more this time around. I think my biggest gripe back in the day was that the third one didn’t make sense, and this time around I still think one part doesn’t really make sense but once you accept it, then it all works: How/why is Neo able to affect machines and see electricity in the real world? I think the in-movie answer is “blah blah The One blah blah The Source”, but the functional answer is “being The One gave Neo Wi-Fi powers in the real world.” That part doesn’t really make sense to me, but once you accept that that’s what happened, then the whole rest of the movie DOES make sense so just go with it. As far as Resurrections goes: I mostly loved it. I’m a sucker for anything meta, so once I heard this movie was going to lean heavily into that I knew I would like it. Unfortunately, the Smith stuff fell kinda flat to me. It’s not that the actor did a bad job, it’s just impossible for him to get out of Hugo Weaving’s shadow. They were smart to not have him try to act like Hugo, but it didn’t really work for me. And after Smith was such a huge part of the original trilogy, I didn’t like seeing him as essentially a side-character here. I was also a little confused at the mechanics of Smith. How/why was he back in the Matrix in the first place? I don’t think the machines would actively recreate him. I guess it’s possible that, since he merged with Neo at the end of Revolutions, you can’t plug Neo back in without getting Smith back too. But even if that’s the case, how were they controlling Smith? Neo got a memory erase and was being controlled with the blue pills, but what is Smith’s incentive to behave and “stay on the treadmill”? I definitely want to pay attention to this on a rewatch to see if I missed anything here. Also, I saw a few people here confused about what they were actually doing during the Trinity heist, and I understand the confusion. I think a lot of it comes from us seeing them unplug Trinity, and then the next time we see her in the real world, she’s already plugged in on the ship. I think if we had seen more of Bugs “taking over” for her, and then seen them moving her body to the ship and plugging her back in and then Matrix-Trinity coming back, it would have been clearer. I also agree with the sentiment about the action scenes in this one being kinda bland. However, on my rewatch I felt like both Reloaded and Revolutions could have had about 10 minutes trimmed off each of them, mostly from action scenes. Whereas with Resurrections I never felt like the movie was dragging or anything went on too long. Will be interested to see if that feeling persists on a rewatch.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:21
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Shadowhand00 posted:Really enjoyed it. The only thing I wasn’t sure of was why they needed to have Trinity link back with the Captain. Something about using her as a blue pill? It wasn't too clear while it was happening, but while they were talking about the plan I thought it was to prevent the machines from realizing they were unplugging Trinity immediately and buy more time to unhook her and escape.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:23
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I watched it. Really liked it. Like an earnest 7/10, maybe better on rewatch. Some of it was a bit *too* hokey, and I honestly thought it might have been kind of rushed. But it still ruled. I felt like it was high on its own supply, but not in a totally overbearing way like in the sequels. It tried its best to be a love story first and foremost and I think it benefitted immensely from that. But honestly, Kujaku was the worst part of the movie. Who designed that stupid loving thing?
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Dec 23, 2021 06:28
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The sudden Ocean's 11 plot to get trinity out felt to me like the most likely part of the film that is a result of the covid halt on production because it feels like it starts going at 120mph there for a minute where the rest of the movie before that felt pretty decently paced.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:32
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The plot to get Trinity out involved detaching her from the Matrix and they needed something to effectively keep her Avatar intact until they could reconnect her via WiFi or however they did until they got to the ship. Since Bugs was close enough in mumblemumble she was able to pull the Matrix version of keeping Trinity from AFKing out.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:34
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I think I most like how the movie ends up being optimistic but not blindly. The efforts of the trilogy mattered, the lives of free humans is better, the Sentients and Programs have choices they didn't before. It wasn't a total victory, the Matrix still exists, the Machines had a civil war and characters like Morpheus and the Oracle died. The (t4t) love story between Neo and Trinity was the real core of the trilogy and if we're going to have a unnecessary sequel, I'm glad the characters get to have a happy ending. They're going to try to make the world better. Will they? Maybe, maybe not. But they get to have each other again for as long as they can.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:50
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Lister posted:It was criticizing that, while at the same time being that. It felt like it was lamp shading itself. I didn't think any of the action was fun because it really was like everything we'd seen before from the series, sometimes in exactly the same shots. I think I was a little too christmas holiday drunk and forgiving saying that, because watching it, the first 40 minutes is a refreshing, almost hostile reaction to a reboot. And then it just dissolves into an incredibly formulaic reboot. I’m not sure how they did it. I would’ve preferred if it was the same 40 minutes and then just endless, incoherent action scenes. For a matrix film it had around 1% of the action I would generally expect, and replaced it with…almost nothing. It was nice to see most of the Sense8 people back in jobs tho I expect that was the actual reason behind the film
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Dec 23, 2021 06:57
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Literal first thing shown on screen at the start of the original matrix Lol I noticed the same thing when I saw it yesterday
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Dec 23, 2021 07:19
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I appreciated that this movie was basically Gremlins 2 but making most of the fight scenes close up shaky cam when 'well framed exciting action' is literally the only good thing about the other sequels seems like a bad decision I know I know the Frenchman covered in garbage screaming that sequels are always worse is correct but its still an unpleasant watch lol
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Dec 23, 2021 07:21
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Just finished, there's a lot to process but one thing I have to say is it's a crime they got rid of the kickin' rad New Morpheus halfway through the film and replaced him with loving boring rear end nano ball Morpheus who doesn't even get to wear any dope looking outfits.
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Dec 23, 2021 07:27
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I wouldn't call it a knock it out of the park homerun, and I agree that the action would've benefited from being turned up a notch, but it told a nice story. It's a nice new capper on the franchise, and if they want to go for another ride there's plenty of story hooks left and room for them to amp up the action and wild Neo abilities like Reloaded did. My free idea for a Matrix five is Neo and Trinity vs. their evil kid that the machines created who has only ever known the matrix and who the machines have been tweaking/running sims on in a separate instance of the Matrix trying to figure out WTF the One's whole deal really is. With Neo having been created multiple times, I gotta figure whipping that up would be simple for the Machines to do, and they certainly had enough time to do it. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 07:28
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I don’t understand what’s going on at the beginning. A modal? Are they in a matrix game?
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Dec 23, 2021 07:30
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Decided to rewatch some Animatrix shorts after enjoying the new Matrix so much. I forgot how awesome some of the shorts were. Now all I need is some Matrix Powerade.
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Dec 23, 2021 07:30
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Saw it, came off as a better attempt at doing The Force Awakens than TFA since while there's a lot of the same beats it did avoid making the earlier movies totally pointless. I think some changes that would have made it work a bit better would have been: Neo and Trinity being dead dead and the software echoes in the Matrix, have them and Morpheus-Smith use holograms in the real world maybe with a simple robot exoskeleton instead of the CGI block effect. The nano balls just didn't have the gravitas of the actor and a clunky robot with a hologram skin also fits better with the rest of the Matrix aesthetic and would have more gravity. They could have him download and transfer between robot platforms too for the later bits. The new Smith I don't know if he was really needed, the idea of the new Morpheus being a hybrid of Smith and Morpheus' memories like Neo and Trinity is a more interesting one and really plays up the what is real, what is a person, etc. questions. Overall it gave strong Tron: Legacy vibes to me for some reason. I did like the Neo in San Fran sequence and the slow pace of his questioning that reality.
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Dec 23, 2021 07:34
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Really weird film. Tons of obvious nostalgia but you can sort of tell that Lana cared about the film more than just a cash grab. Still felt like a missed opportunity though. - Tone seemed all off. Too quirky with Neil Patrick Harris. Weird Disney Star Wars vibe with the whole conflict between Bug and Niobe. - I understand they couldn't get Hugo Weaving and Laurence Fishburne but the call backs to their characters just made it stick out more. Their replacements weren't bad actors, they just didn't fit. - Bugs, new Morpheus, and computer hacker guy were fine additions but then they kept introducing people I didn't know or care about to the Trinity plot arc. - Weird choices on cinematography. Felt like Lana was either calling back to late 90's techniques or she just rushed production. - Everything outside the Matrix felt like an exposition dump and might have been way better developed over several movies. - CGI was great but they went too far with the friendly robots and their avatars. Felt too clean. - Story was decent but could have been tightened up more. Basic plot of Neo discovering he was plugged back in and then going to have to find Trinity was too muddied up with Io and Agent Smith's rebellion. Again probably would have worked better over several films. - Them turning the Matrix into a video game programmed by Neo was a stupid plot beat. I would have rathered the story focus more on Neo slowly discovering that he got plugged in again. They could have still focused on nostalgia by sprinkling it in as clues and recalls for him. NPH would have been great as a gaslighter and they could have really pushed Trinity doubting her life too.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:01
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Also, like, what was Smith's motivation? I read it as Smith wanting to be an agent again. This is why Merv is working with him. He also wants to have the old life you saw in the original movies back. The only way to do this is by resetting the matrix back to the architect's version. The confusing thing is that he tells neo to stay out of the matrix and let him kill the analyst. I think he's assuming squaring off against the analyst would mean defeat for neo, getting put back in the loop, and the two of them being trapped again. So he decides to kill neo and avoid it altogether. Now killing neo would cause the matrix to permanently become unstable and need to be reset (as is explained by sati when she explains what's happening with only trinity connected) so that works. It's confusing though when he then saves trinity's life later on. If she had died, the new matrix wouldn't have worked out since they both need to be alive and connected. Maybe it's his desire to hurt the analyst? Even though the analyst is still alive at the end of the movie? Either way, he does end up free in that he's free from the life he had being trapped as neo's boss.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:16
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I might have missed a line somewhere and so I'm not sure I understood the status of the machine war. So the synthients had some kind of civil war post-Revolutions and went back to abducting and imprisoning humans? Io has to hide behind holograms because the machines would just attack it if they knew where it is? Or is it just that Niobe doesn't want to take the chance?
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Dec 23, 2021 08:32
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GreenBuckanneer posted:I think that scene would have been better with subtitles because I could barely understand what they said Both are bad with little to no plot. Spider man however is a very good smash action figures together movie.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:32
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Just got out of seeing it in IMAX. Loved it. Some thoughts: -Calling the matrix a game inside of the matrix world was great and obviously fitting for our times. -I cant quite remember, but during the matrix 4 brainstorming scenes, did they ever discuss the love story as an aspect? I remember all the action and philosophy talk at least. - Lana obviously though the love aspect was the most important part of the matrix movies worth coming back to. Neo literally pushes obstacles out of his way to get to trinity. Neither can be truly powered (and true creators) without love. -Is there an aspect that sincere love will destroy the matrix/new online world controlling us? -Niobe has to be like 90 right? But I did like her remark about how the previous war was a matrix controlling the people of zion in that it dominated their lives. -A lot of talk about the action scenes, but I enjoyed the intro scenes and subway fight at least. These were better in the original, but thats kind of the point. -New characters were mostly alright, though hard to remember any but Bugs and Morpheus. I like the integrated machine/human world as it continued the promise of harmony at the end of the original trilogy. -The end is Lana saying she (and maybe her sister) can and will just create what they want. This can definitely be look as a retroactive statement. Even if not everyone gets it and is "freed", they will just create.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:33
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Ferrinus posted:I might have missed a line somewhere and so I'm not sure I understood the status of the machine war. So the synthients had some kind of civil war post-Revolutions and went back to abducting and imprisoning humans? Io has to hide behind holograms because the machines would just attack it if they knew where it is? Or is it just that Niobe doesn't want to take the chance? There seems to be at least two groups of machines. Post matrix 3, architect promises to free those who want out. So apparently many did which caused enough of a power issue that some other machines/programs revolted against him. I think at some point during this some machines broke off to form the Synthients to work with the humans. Tati appears to be part of this group. The new rulers of machine city then apparently do wipe out zion, but enough escaped and with Synthients IO was formed in its place. It seems IO is at least not in an active war with machine city as Niobe talks about how great the peace is. Based on her discussions with Bugs, I assume that they are mostly at peace because they stay hidden and do not actively free people anymore from the matrix. Life is easy with no revolution. The analyst though did not seem to care about these freed humans at all as his matrix was super effective.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:43
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Golden Bee posted:* I guess it wasn’t very clear why nobody could escape in the finale. They might’ve explained it, but besides “if you go in I don’t know if I can get you out“, it wasn’t clear why a random doorway couldn’t be an escape hatch. the swarm was following neo and trinity which was somehow also getting rid of all the window panes in the way. the crew that got left behind took care of the few that were taking them out while the rest of the swarm followed neo and trinity, the ppl that actually mattered. then trinity flew neo away at the speed of light and that was gg
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Dec 23, 2021 08:46
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On the topic of Smith, I just remembered that there was talk of a lot of programs being purged after the last film and obviously some escaped that (as we saw with the Merovingian and his subordinates having seemingly survived) but given how he nearly destroyed everything for the machines, I'm surprised that Smith wasn't purged and I don't recall the film mentioning why he was kept around? He was obviously oblivious just like Neo until he had his own awakening, but why keep such a dangerous program around that is such a threat to everything? I'm guessing that ever since becoming the One in the original film, presumably Neo & Smith are somehow linked and keeping Neo in the pod would not have worked without Smith being reset and duped as well? Then again, Smith was wiped out in Revolutions thanks to the virus Neo transferred so I'm a bit puzzled how he's even still around? Doesn't really interfere with my enjoyment of the film but it is odd.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:48
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SUNKOS posted:On the topic of Smith, I just remembered that there was talk of a lot of programs being purged after the last film and obviously some escaped that (as we saw with the Merovingian and his subordinates having seemingly survived) but given how he nearly destroyed everything for the machines, I'm surprised that Smith wasn't purged and I don't recall the film mentioning why he was kept around? He was obviously oblivious just like Neo until he had his own awakening, but why keep such a dangerous program around that is such a threat to everything? I'm guessing that ever since becoming the One in the original film, presumably Neo & Smith are somehow linked and keeping Neo in the pod would not have worked without Smith being reset and duped as well? Then again, Smith was wiped out in Revolutions thanks to the virus Neo transferred so I'm a bit puzzled how he's even still around? Doesn't really interfere with my enjoyment of the film but it is odd. If the new Matrix requires Neo and Trinity to be close but not together, it is reasonable that having Smith also maintaining a semi antagonistic relationship plays into it as well.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:57
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checkplease posted:Just got out of seeing it in IMAX. Loved it. ah yes its lovely on purpose
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Dec 23, 2021 09:12
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Nuts and Gum posted:ah yes its lovely on purpose This is probably what Lana wants you think, while hoping that maybe you'll also understand the "why" behind it all. Or maybe not. We'll never know.
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Dec 23, 2021 09:20
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Vitamin P posted:- The guy playing the Analyst did not have nearly enough screen presence to carry that much screen time and that much plot, he didn't feel powerful enough or cruel enough or intelligent enough and previous Matrix villains always nailed at least one of those. heavy disagree. analyst is easily the second best villain in this series. behind smith (exclusively on the first movie), they were great w/ time management on him Blue Raider posted:This is because Morpheus died in some game and every piece of Matrix media was always canon. no, its because laurence fishburn is fat and old. original morpheus lived a decently long as a leader, which im pretty sure is not a plot point of matrix online b4 he dies in it. that poo poo has been retconned. everything might be canon, but matrix online isnt
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Dec 23, 2021 09:21
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aBagorn posted:direct from the source interesting that lily was the one that said that, and lana was the one that directed this scene lol
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Dec 23, 2021 09:23
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