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Shageletic posted:But isn't that the clever business move? Whatever he does, has worked at him being top dog for however decades. It's like the measure of a medieval King was how long they reigned, which entailed a specific set of skills to maintain power. That's what's Logan is doing. He's not adding value. He's maintaining himself as King of poo poo Mountain and no one can push him off. Yeah, that's all fair. But I do find it amusing that the show goes out of it's way to show that Logan, and no one really, is amazing at "what will enable my business to have a better bottom line in the future" as much as "how can I gently caress over threat X at this moment". Suppose that's the show's thesis statement.
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Dec 21, 2021 07:11
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:07 |
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He can be good at listening. One of his tropes is asking his business advisors what they think, or doing a round table. So much of the dialog had momentum because of this.
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Dec 21, 2021 07:25
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He is also good at showing non-commitment and deflecting blame.
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Dec 21, 2021 07:48
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I Love Loosies posted:He is also good at showing non-commitment and deflecting blame. yeah, when the kids save the business while he's off in la la land he invariably sours on them (telling kendall he's a loving idiot after he found out about that secret loan and shouting at shiv after she made the deal with stewy and sandy) roman avoided this when he dumpstered the deal with the rich arabs, maybe because in th end it was logan's decision and not taken while he was incapacitated
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Dec 21, 2021 08:53
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Shageletic posted:But isn't that the clever business move? Whatever he does, has worked at him being top dog for however decades. Nah Logan might have shown good business acumen in the beginning (ie he was willing to ruin and exploit people for his own gain like like everyone else in his wealth bracket) but it seems clear he's just running on inertia now. He's barely hanging on and every decision he makes ends up being a step backwards - he's just good at framing every defeat to look like a victory.
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Dec 21, 2021 08:58
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The World Inferno posted:Yeah, that's all fair. But I do find it amusing that the show goes out of it's way to show that Logan, and no one really, is amazing at "what will enable my business to have a better bottom line in the future" as much as "how can I gently caress over threat X at this moment". Suppose that's the show's thesis statement. Yup. His normal instinct to take over a new acquisition in the first whiff of trouble and to appear strong also rings true in our latter day capitalism world where the big companies don't innovate, they just buy companies that do and shut them down. Waystar being broken into parts and Logan loving off with all the money seems the most realistic way his business will develop tho.
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Dec 21, 2021 10:28
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Fucker posted:Now you're just coping.
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Dec 21, 2021 10:46
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Using people as human furniture because they lost a bet is typical office tomfoolery and not a sign of an unbalanced personality being given a position because he happens to be marrying into the family that controls the company
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Dec 21, 2021 11:22
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Side note, but anyone else find it really unrealistic that Caroline would ask Shiv to give a toast at her wedding? I mean, she's gotta know Shiv would roast her. They don't even pretend to have an affectionate mother/daughter relationship so why would Caroline make that request?
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Dec 21, 2021 11:30
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boquiabierta posted:Side note, but anyone else find it really unrealistic that Caroline would ask Shiv to give a toast at her wedding? I mean, she's gotta know Shiv would roast her. They don't even pretend to have an affectionate mother/daughter relationship so why would Caroline make that request? Maybe just keeping up appearances. Some people see it as the done thing to involve your children in the wedding if you're older.
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Dec 21, 2021 11:40
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I think Peter asked Caroline to ask Shiv. He wanted a "perfect" wedding after all.
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Dec 21, 2021 12:06
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Baudolino posted:I think Peter asked Caroline to ask Shiv. He wanted a "perfect" wedding after all. he's a "grasping little scholarship boy", after all
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Dec 21, 2021 12:49
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Dec 21, 2021 13:24
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Caroline probably did the deal to both get more favorable terms in the divorce but also so Logan would help out her new hubby with his business stuff.
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Dec 21, 2021 13:29
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Cranappleberry posted:Using people as human furniture because they lost a bet is typical office tomfoolery and not a sign of an unbalanced personality being given a position because he happens to be marrying into the family that controls the company Slight agree, but hurling water bottles at your assistant when they meekly ask to move departments and (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ might be.
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Dec 21, 2021 16:14
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The World Inferno posted:Slight agree, but hurling water bottles at your assistant when they meekly ask to move departments and (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ might be. That's just executive-level business.
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Dec 21, 2021 21:09
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NGL Id let this guy buy out my company too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMSdFM12hOw
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Dec 22, 2021 02:29
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Finally got caught up on this season- random thoughts on the finale: Tom has always viewed Greg as a younger version of himself, but Greg really did a wonderful job of cementing it when speaking to Tom about the Contessa. When Tom says "You're one plane crash from being the weirdest King in Europe" is such a good line because Tom has clearly always viewed himself that way, even if it wasn't true organizationally. Also, Greg describing the situation with Comfry- "She's not that into me... separate bedding... it's a guilt free switch up." also works beautifully as an analogue for Tom's relationship to Shiv. Comfry works in online branding and the Shiv marriage has always been one of necessity. I don't think that the show has ever really been convincing that Tom has actual feelings for Shiv. Their relationship, like those created by all of the Roys, is purely transactional. More of Tom in that scene- "Who has ever looked after you in this loving family?" I've really enjoyed the corruption of Greg as a subplot. When Tom tells Greg that his move could be a way for Greg out of the "endless middle" you know Greg believes it, even though just a short time ago little Greggy was having his mind blown by a swanky apartment and free food at meetings. Big connection from Ep 8: Also, I completely disagree with anyone suggesting that Caroline may have acted with any kind of regard for the wellbeing or sanity of her children. In Ep 8 when we meet Peter, she calls him "absolutely awful," "a grasping scholarship boy," and describes him as "fizzing away like a bottle of cheap prosecco." Caroline has herself a Tom clearly. The difference is that Caroline doesn't underestimate those types and probably also doesn't care that she is likely being exploited. Peter immediately asks Logan for a connection into UK politics upon their meeting, and most importantly, Caroline literally tells Shiv that she is "Having to open up the divorce agreement with [Logan]" because Peter loves the Eaton Square flat." Shiv asks if he can't just afford one on his own, and Caroline describes the business failures that Peter has experienced. The next exchange: Shiv- "Quite the business brain." Caroline- "He's got a very big heart." Shiv- "Well, I suppose opposites attract." What an incredible setup. It establishes both: A) the divorce settlement is already open, hence justifying the speed with which it could be revised in the next episode. And most hilariously B) Caroline murdered all of her children so her scumbag new husband could have an apartment he likes.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:24
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Well yeah, she murdered them in the sense that they won't get any free billion handouts for doing nothing anymore they're literally pouting spoiled children upset that they can't steal money from their father
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Dec 23, 2021 00:20
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i wouldn't say tom's relationship with shiv is purely transactional from his POV, at worst it's something like "i do love her but i also want a c-suite position and both are important to me" at least that's how it looked to me in season 1, but it all starts falling apart when she comes out with her open marriage proposal on their wedding night and he realizes (at the worst possible moment) she's been banging other people behind his back while going out/engaged with him, plus the time in s2 when after coming back from boar-on-the-floor he realizes she was with someone else again, all of it culminating in that talk on the beach in the finale getting cheated on and then being asked to accept it as the way things will be (on your wedding night!) aren't easy things to swallow
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Dec 23, 2021 02:55
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I think there's evidence to claim that Tom does love Shiv, but I think the power and wealth of all the Roy children is an immediately corrupting influence that makes loving even the most normal of them (Shiv & Con) impossible. I don't think its coincidental that the final episodes establish this with Willa. She likes Connor, but by virtue of being a Roy he is so incredibly alienating that "gently caress it!" is about the best you can hope for. And it would seem that she has far less to gain from Connor than Tom would have to gain from his relationship with Shiv. Can you naturally fall in love with someone who has the power to almost instantly give you everything you've ever wanted? Maybe, but how would you ever know? Tom seems like he would be totally happy in a loveless marriage so long as it passes the eye test (assuming his financial security), but Shiv seemed committed to dunking on him in public whenever possible. It's an image thing. I could almost see Tom trying to reconcile with Shiv and attempting to sell her on how now the two of them are playing both sides. If Shiv wins in her moves against Logan somehow, the two of them are secure, and when Logan wins, Tom can get Shiv back into the good graces of her father. Only in that second scenario the power dynamic of the relationship has been flipped and Tom would be the dominant. I think he would revel in it. a new study bible! fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 05:10
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Don't feel like 'Tom never loved Shiv' holds much water. He's clearly way more invested in their relationship then she is for most of S1 into S2. It's been a pretty brilliant slow burn to Tom betraying them since Greg first misled him into thinking Shiv ratted out their plan to announce their father's retirement back in S1.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:57
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Tom has to be way more into Shiv than she is into him. There are a million Toms in New York. I don’t think that we are supposed to view the entire relationship as being an outright sham, but I think that it’s important to acknowledge that none of the siblings are human and none of them will ever have human relationships.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:17
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That’s why they have to play little incestuous games with each other and why Roman actually wants to do incest. (Although Connor seems like he’s the closest to being human)
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Dec 23, 2021 06:19
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a new study bible! posted:That’s why they have to play little incestuous games with each other and why Roman actually wants to do incest. There was a nice detail where he comments on the stage rigging at Kendalls 40th, which implies he is at least paying attention and taking some interest in Willla's life and work.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:28
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a new study bible! posted:Tom seems like he would be totally happy in a loveless marriage so long as it passes the eye test (assuming his financial security), but Shiv seemed committed to dunking on him in public whenever possible. It's an image thing. I could almost see Tom trying to reconcile with Shiv and attempting to sell her on how now the two of them are playing both sides. If Shiv wins in her moves against Logan somehow, the two of them are secure, and when Logan wins, Tom can get Shiv back into the good graces of her father. Only in that second scenario the power dynamic of the relationship has been flipped and Tom would be the dominant. I think he would revel in it. "totally happy" is really not true and you can see it in the show itself, he would tolerate it if the payoff was big enough but he would not be in the least happy and the show is explicit about this with him blowing up at greg in the safe room episode - pelting him with water bottles, screaming about him leaving etc. that is not a "totally happy" person of course he'd revel in it, she's deeply hurt him and keeps doing it over and over again, in private and in public with sly remarks that are obvious only to them and maybe her siblings who know her better (like the speech at her mother's wedding), why wouldn't he revel in turning the knife around and sticking it in her back for a change
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Dec 23, 2021 06:28
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yeah connor is a different genre of alienated rich shithead than the other kids which ocasionally lets him be genuine in ways the other kids can't be.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:30
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Tom, like a lot of rich businessmen, is a status seeker. Shiv constantly demeaned his. It makes so much sense it's crazy. Nothing in this show comes out of left field. The mistake is always on us not thinking they're going to go thru with it.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:33
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At this point, I've seen Connor and Willa have the most "normal" relationship conversations of any of any of the partners on this show...which isn't saying much.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:51
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Will they elect Connor president in season 4
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Dec 23, 2021 07:11
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I hope so 🤩
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Dec 23, 2021 09:57
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Nah as much as he's a sicko Roman's far closer to human than Connor. Roman at least has some self-awareness about how ridiculous he and his situation is. Connor fully believes his hyper-libertarian bullshit.
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Dec 23, 2021 11:42
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Ok, so where did the incest poo poo come from with Roman? Did I miss some episode where they went into it?
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Dec 23, 2021 13:37
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The World Inferno posted:Will they elect Connor president in season 4 he is the nicest, terrible libertarian there is
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Dec 23, 2021 13:40
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Tom 100% loved Shiv and the show has been depicting the growing rift between the two of them. It's also a complex for Tom which Shiv lays bare in the ..finale? (or episode before. The one with the dirty talk)
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Dec 23, 2021 14:00
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Ok, so where did the incest poo poo come from with Roman? Did I miss some episode where they went into it? Literally his very first appearance is him telling Shiv “you wish” when she compares him to a date rapist or something and he’s been making jokes like that ever since. It’s more than just a twisted sense of humor.
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Dec 23, 2021 14:03
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I think it's testament to the acting and writing that you can actually choose yourself whether; 1) Tom was totally genuine in his affection for Shiv. He loved her and wanted her to love him but slowly realized this wasn't the case and he definitely wanted a kid borne out of their love together. 2) Tom is a golddigger who is trying to make Shiv love him and trust him because what he wants most in life is prestige and status and whenever Shiv shows coldness to him he realizes he's still far from his goal
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Dec 23, 2021 14:09
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Weren’t Tom’s parents lifelong wannabe elites who essentially groomed Tom for marrying into a rich family? I think there was something about this in S1
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Dec 23, 2021 15:15
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:Weren’t Tom’s parents lifelong wannabe elites who essentially groomed Tom for marrying into a rich family? they bought the wine
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Dec 23, 2021 15:29
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:07 |
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The divorce settlement was opened by Logan in the 2nd season when the Roys needed Caroline's percentage to shore up support for their side during the proxy battle. Logan used the kids as messengers to talk to Caroline and would go as high as $50 million but "wouldn't be happy." Caroline countered to the kids that she wanted them for Christmas which... sounds like bullshit but maybe she really did. The thread was never closed until the season 3 finale. prom candy posted:they bought the wine Oh my god are they still telling everyone about the wine? Such commonality. No but I'm being bad. It was lovely of them.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:02
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