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checkplease posted:Some of the behind the scenes stuff for original matrix showed how they trained those fights for months to get all of the choreography. I think Lana stylistically wanted the fights to look different (while being a call back to contrast with), but I wonder if it was also difficult to get all the actors to train for that long again. I read an article recently where Keanu said they barely rehearsed, and NPH talks a bit about the production process being very "on-the-fly". https://www.indiewire.com/2021/11/keanu-reeves-matrix-4-rehearsals-1234682345/
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Dec 23, 2021 18:32
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My only complaint of the fighting is anytime it involved automatic weapons because no one, and I mean no one, could land a loving shot holy poo poo. it was particulary bad in the 2 early sequence of bugs escaping and Morpheus fighting in the office. Show him being an agent still and dodging poo poo and don’t put bugs in a position where everyone magically misses her, imo.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:32
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checkplease posted:Some of the behind the scenes stuff for original matrix showed how they trained those fights for months to get all of the choreography. I think Lana stylistically wanted the fights to look different (while being a call back to contrast with), but I wonder if it was also difficult to get all the actors to train for that long again. I dunno, Reeves is still very happy to train like a monster and Groff is like a super energetic broadway megastar so both of them should be physically able for fights like the original matrix. They really just weren’t directed too well, and edited too quickly, and way too short. That said of course there’s no requirement for there to be any fighting in the film; but there was, so I just wish there was more effort.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:34
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Ghosthotel posted:I feel like there is a bit of revisionist history going on here, I remember people talking about the themes in the matrix pretty much right after release lol. I think you're giving folks too little credit here. Eh, I'm not saying it's the deepest movie ever, but I think people forget how shocking a movie it was at the time for being deep as it was. Like a big bombastic action movie talking about gnosticism and Maya and simulacrum in 1999 is like if hallmark came out with a romantic comedy christmas movie and it was all based on marcionism and semiotics.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:36
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lol its so funny that people cant tell if large sections of the movie are good because they suck on purpose
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Dec 23, 2021 18:36
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:My only complaint of the fighting is anytime it involved automatic weapons because no one, and I mean no one, could land a loving shot holy poo poo. it was particulary bad in the 2 early sequence of bugs escaping and Morpheus fighting in the office. Show him being an agent still and dodging poo poo and don’t put bugs in a position where everyone magically misses her, imo. Bugs being unhittable in the early escape scenes can be explained away by her and Morpheus being inside a modal simulation I guess.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:38
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:My only complaint of the fighting is anytime it involved automatic weapons because no one, and I mean no one, could land a loving shot holy poo poo. it was particulary bad in the 2 early sequence of bugs escaping and Morpheus fighting in the office. Show him being an agent still and dodging poo poo and don’t put bugs in a position where everyone magically misses her, imo.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:39
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Linguica posted:The scene with Morpheus at the game company struck me as very clearly satirical and a parody of what you expect a Matrix shootout to be. Yea but it was kinda lame too.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:42
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Linguica posted:The scene with Morpheus at the game company struck me as very clearly satirical and a parody of what you expect a Matrix shootout to be. Almost everything involving AI Morpheus outside of his nanobot antics can and should be read as parody/satire imo. His costume design inside the matrix is a dead giveaway, lol. It's hilariously extra. [edit] Re-reading the article I linked at the top, Lana had a good quote about Resurrections: Lana Wachowski posted:Art is a mirror. Most will prefer to gaze at the surface but there will be people like me who enjoy what lies behind the looking glass. I made this movie for them. teagone fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 18:42
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teagone posted:Almost everything involving AI Morpheus outside of his nanobot antics can and should be read as parody/satire imo. His costume design inside the matrix is a dead giveaway, lol. It's hilariously extra. His dialogue reading old Morpheus lines then going blah blah blah was fantastic. He had a real fun time with that role
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Dec 23, 2021 18:47
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That's the problem with satire, particularly when what you are satirizing is lazy, bad filmmaking. If you don't effectively communicate that any perceived lapses in quality are a conscious choice it just looks like bad filmmaking. Different people are able to able to enjoy art on different levels of abstraction. I choose to judge it like a gymnastics routine where they score on both degree of difficulty and execution. A meta satire of formulaic reboots and decades-later sequels that is also an emotional film with deep concepts and compelling action is a serious degree of difficulty. I can see that all the moves of the routine are there, it's just that the transitions are clunky and the landing doesn't quite stick.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:49
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:My only complaint of the fighting is anytime it involved automatic weapons because no one, and I mean no one, could land a loving shot holy poo poo. it was particulary bad in the 2 early sequence of bugs escaping and Morpheus fighting in the office. Show him being an agent still and dodging poo poo and don’t put bugs in a position where everyone magically misses her, imo. The sequels had a bit of this problem. Like the start of the highway chase has the ghost twins using an automatic against Morpheus and Trinity car. There are so many bullet holes but everyone is ok. I guess at least they had "cover" there.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:52
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Rexicon1 posted:Yea but it was kinda lame too. This, I think, is my main issue with the movie. It doesn’t matter if something is supposed to be taking the piss if it doesn’t work well on any other level either, imo. It’s like the other poster mentioned about Marvel movies ruining action dialogue. It’s a thin line between satirical riffing on stuff and dialogue that’s just plain bad, and I think this movie falls on the wrong side of that divide. Especially early on.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:54
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Rexicon1 posted:Yea but it was kinda lame too. Nah this scene was fun. Morpheus silly entrance out of a bathroom stall in his amazing suit. And then him just flipping around shooting guns like a video game while Keanu freaks out and crawls away. Nothing lame here. It was again a nice contrast to original matrix office scene too. But i guess if this didnt work for you then yeah going to have issues with a lot of the film.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:58
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:His dialogue reading old Morpheus lines then going blah blah blah was fantastic. He had a real fun time with that role Yeah, great role that was perfectly cast. Loved the take on the character. Shame he took a backseat in the third act though, not really having anything interesting to do once Neo woke up again. [edit] Although, taking that in on a meta-narrative level actual Morpheus didn't really have anything interesting to do in Revolutions either, lmao.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:59
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Gunfights are bad in nearly every movie ever, this one did kinda worse than usual at times especially the aforementioned early scene with Bugs, but its nothing new. My goal in life is to reach hollywood and create a movie where the gunfights are all realisitc. Playing Warzone last night with some goons and I wondered aloud if the 1911 pistol was named for the year it was created, and jokingly added that I didn't learn about guns in school because I'm not from America. Someone else piped up and said "we dont learn about guns in school we just take them to school". Exceedingly dark, but good nonetheless
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Dec 23, 2021 19:02
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Wolfsheim posted:lol its so funny that people cant tell if large sections of the movie are good because they suck on purpose The final evangelion movie came out. There is a scene where the 3D animation fails the same way the originals had the 2D animation failing. It's hilarious how many reviews talk about the animation in that scene looking terrible. It's like PS2 models sliding around solid polygons barely animating, stuff flys up in the air and bounces off the skybox. It's so clearly "the animation is degrading" with it eventually breaking to the structure of the movie 'failing' and scenes jumbling up, and it seems like 95% of reviews still manage to go "boy that fight in the city looked bad".
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Dec 23, 2021 19:03
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The final evangelion movie came out. There is a scene where the 3D animation fails the same way the originals had the 2D animation failing.  how do you miss this bad. The story literally continues devolving into an actual soundstage and then further into just storyboard panels. It’s all there and it’s not even subtle about it!
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Dec 23, 2021 19:11
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idk guys, this is a good movie, but saying that the fights are uninspired and badly edited on purpose seems a bit too far lol
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Dec 23, 2021 19:13
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Actually this is quite good. Maybe 3½-4/5. Not awful hot garbage like the new Bond, Star wars movies etc. If I understood right, the machines are basically us. Bleeding the planet dry first, then just surviving, ever trying to make the number bigger. Never stopping to wonder what is the point of all that exploitation. Also they diss quite heavily all the extremely lukewarm remakes Hollywoods keeps pumping out instead of inventing something new. I thought this would be a bad movie. I was wrong, oops.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:21
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:
This might have always been a thing, but are people just getting worse at watching and processing media? I feel like “wildly missing the point and/or somehow not picking up on explicitly stated information” has had an uptick in the last 15 years.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:25
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Yeah I agree saying its bad on purpose is a bit far (but then I don't think they are all bad). But Lana definitely chose to do the fights in a different style while using location choices from the original films. Neo is tired and doesn't want to do all this fighting stuff if he doesn't have to. He doesnt like the feeling of having to redo everything. He just wants to kiss his girl again. Its now his only purpose. I really think opening scene, office scene, subway 1v1, and final chase were all fine. Each had a better version in the older films, but some good stuff still here. I think its mainly the train scene that didnt work for me. Exile fight was saved by crazy Merv ranting.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:28
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:
This movie and Evangelion 4.0 are kinda the exact same movie in a lot of ways.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:28
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Fucker posted:idk guys, this is a good movie, but saying that the fights are uninspired and badly edited on purpose seems a bit too far lol How much you're willing to accept a display of parody is relative to how you feel about certain scenes. I feel like there's a sensible approach from either side, and it's not invalid to think one way or the other imo; whether you believe a scene is just straight bad on a technical level, or "bad" for the sake of cultural satirization. Admittedly, choosing the latter has big "apologist energy" lol, but still, I think it's a valid reading considering the context.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:29
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I want someone to make a live action movie of the Second Renaissance.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:29
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HD DAD posted:This might have always been a thing, but are people just getting worse at watching and processing media? I feel like “wildly missing the point and/or somehow not picking up on explicitly stated information” has had an uptick in the last 15 years. I definitely think people these days have a tendency to only half pay attention to what they're watching due to the constant fiddling around with their phones/social media. So they feel like they "watched" something but really there was like a solid chunk of the thing that you didn't absorb because you weren't even looking at the screen. I know I've been guilty of it at times, but I have ADD and I tend to need multiple viewings anyway to really get the most out of movies and t.v. shows.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:29
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HD DAD posted:This might have always been a thing, but are people just getting worse at watching and processing media? I feel like “wildly missing the point and/or somehow not picking up on explicitly stated information” has had an uptick in the last 15 years. Ignoring my gangtag for a moment (lol), but some believe there's an argument to be had that the cultural dominance of the MCU has some relevance to how stunted media literacy has become. 
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Dec 23, 2021 19:33
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I said come in! posted:I want someone to make a live action movie of the Second Renaissance. You could watch Will Smith in I, Robot and then Christian Bale in Terminator Salvation back-to-back.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:35
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People are just dumb too and more and more dumb people have access to post on the internet that we didn't hear from back in 1999.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:35
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Fucker posted:i read it as her mocking the idea that thats what they had as the chief goal of the movie when they were making it, not the reading in itself. note that that dialogue starts w/ the fat agent going "obviously, the matrix is all about...". the other stuff like crypto-fascism and a metaphor of capitalist exploitation all work well as valid interpretations of the original matrix too. I do get that. It's just that framing them as the most irritating people you see or listen to undermines everything they're saying, even when they make valid points. If lana wachowski's point is that anyone will cringe hearing you talk about a piece of media that you didn't create, then it's a pretty arrogant and narrow minded message.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:37
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Lister posted:I do get that. It's just that framing them as the most irritating people you see or listen to undermines everything they're saying, even when they make valid points. If lana wachowski's point is that anyone will cringe hearing you talk about a piece of media that you didn't create, then it's a pretty arrogant and narrow minded message. This is the funny part: it's either a huge troll that says all sequels and reboots are trash with deliberately bad action that calls everyone looking for meaning stupid, OR It's a decent concept with mediocre action because they couldn't get the original choreographer and is a little too bloated and poorly paced because every Wachowksi movie made in the last decade also had that problem But I don't think it can really be both
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Dec 23, 2021 19:44
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teagone posted:You could watch Will Smith in I, Robot and then Christian Bale in Terminator Salvation back-to-back. lol this actually makes sense. I like this recommendation.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:44
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teagone posted:Ignoring my gangtag for a moment (lol), but some believe there's an argument to be had that the cultural dominance of the MCU has some relevance to how stunted media literacy has become. We have people that legit think Zack Snyder movies are good. Half the posts in this thread are bringing up Stars Wars and Marvel and whatever else for reasons? Stuff like the reboots of Total Recall or Robocop or Childs Play deserve what this movie talks about than anything Disney.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:49
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I said come in! posted:lol this actually makes sense. I like this recommendation. Also lol, they're both available on HBO Max. It's had to have been 10+ years since I've seen I, Robot. I think I'm gonna watch that tonight. I just reminded myself of the "Converse All-Stars, vintage 2004" shameless product placement scene and Will Smith's "sorry, I'm allergic to bullshit" lmao. Movie owns.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:49
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RBX posted:We have people that legit think Zack Snyder movies are good. lol based RBX posted:Half the posts in this thread are bringing up Stars Wars and Marvel and whatever else for reasons? ill admit that, even tho i didnt post here ab it, i had serious force awaken vibes judging by the trailer i watched. i thought it was gonna be a "sequel" that was actually just a reboot. fortunately, that didnt happen.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:50
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teagone posted:Also lol, they're both available on HBO Max. It's had to have been 10+ years since I've seen I, Robot. I think I'm gonna watch that tonight. I just reminded myself of the "Converse All-Stars, vintage 2004" shameless product placement scene and Will Smith's "sorry, I'm allergic to bullshit" lmao. Movie owns. I own it on Amazon Prime, but still want to own the directors cut of Terminator Salvation.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:51
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RBX posted:We have people that legit think Zack Snyder movies are good. The Watchmen is one of my favorite comicbook movies, next to V for Vendetta.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:52
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RBX posted:We have people that legit think Zack Snyder movies are good. Most of them, if not all of them are pretty good. You should check out his CGI owl movie. Underrated gem imo. quote:Half the posts in this thread are bringing up Stars Wars and Marvel and whatever else for reasons? Stuff like the reboots of Total Recall or Robocop or Childs Play deserve what this movie talks about than anything Disney. Star Wars and Marvel are under Disney though.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:53
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Say what you will about Zack Snyder (personally I think roughly 6/9 of his movies are good to great) but he never made the action in his action movies so bad that people genuinely couldn't tell if he did it as a joke
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Dec 23, 2021 20:00
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Question about Matrix Reloaded. When Monica Bellucci decides to help break out the Keymaker, there's a brief scene where she shoots one of the Merovingian's henchmen with a four barrel handgun then tells the other to alert the Merovingian of what she's doing. Why would she simultaneously help Neo/Morpheus/Trinity get the Keymaker then sabotage them?
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Dec 23, 2021 20:01
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