(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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CaptainACAB posted:Yeah one thing I hate about the western discourse on Japan is westerners act like the Japanese people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Japanese obviously agree with th LDP and Nippon Kaigi, which is why they keep winning. Only about 17% of the electorate votes for the LDP and they overwhelmingly skew older. That’s what would happen (ed) but it isn’t as fun. The point is the LDP actually gets in the way of Japan looking out for its own interests
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Dec 23, 2021 19:06
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https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1474038658110042112?s=21
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Dec 23, 2021 19:10
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https://twitter.com/YangWestlake20/status/1474055279343857664
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Dec 23, 2021 19:12
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american empire is dead but doesnt realize it yet .jpeg
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Dec 23, 2021 19:18
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CaptainACAB posted:Yeah one thing I hate about the western discourse on Japan is westerners act like the Japanese people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Japanese obviously agree with th LDP and Nippon Kaigi, which is why they keep winning. no way, stringent says they're all secret socialists, you must be mistaken
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Dec 23, 2021 19:25
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imagine the rest of the world did this to US prison labour
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Dec 23, 2021 19:47
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Ardennes posted:Only about 17% of the electorate votes for the LDP and they overwhelmingly skew older. 17%, don't ya just love Liberal Democracy. That's fair, I hope someone is enjoying that better timeline right now
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Dec 23, 2021 20:03
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Jose posted:imagine the rest of the world did this to US prison labour that would be cool
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Dec 23, 2021 20:04
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i'm not familiar with japan's electoral system but i'm assuming they also live in a bourgeois democracy so i don't think you can blame the average person for their government since the whole thing is rigged from the start
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Dec 23, 2021 20:08
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CaptainACAB posted:Yeah one thing I hate about the western discourse on Japan is westerners act like the Japanese people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Japanese obviously agree with th LDP and Nippon Kaigi, which is why they keep winning. Don't worry, I'm pretty sure most people in the US think firebombing and then dropping nuclear weapons on Japan was good, and if we need to we should do it again.
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Dec 23, 2021 20:19
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CaptainACAB posted:Yeah one thing I hate about the western discourse on Japan is westerners act like the Japanese people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Japanese obviously agree with th LDP and Nippon Kaigi, which is why they keep winning. Is there a reason you're particularly invested into getting us to hate Japanese? Ardennes posted:That’s what would happen (ed) but it isn’t as fun. The point is the LDP actually gets in the way of Japan looking out for its own interests The impression I get from how the US handles its relations to Japan is that we'd really love for them to get rid of Article 9 and relieve our own burden of "policing" the Pacific - but doing so also means Japan is independent and can tell us to gently caress off. The compromise Abe forced through where they reinterpreted it to mean Japan can support its allies defensively was a win-win for American interests. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 20:44 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 20:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Is there a reason you're particularly invested into getting us to hate Japanese? They took his shins on Okinawa
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Dec 23, 2021 20:40
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We must purge the weeb within our selves.
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Dec 23, 2021 20:42
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Ardennes posted:Only about 17% of the electorate votes for the LDP and they overwhelmingly skew older. Then the majority of the electorate agree enough with the LDPs policies that they dont bother voting against them. The LDP rigged everything decades ago anyway. Pener Kropoopkin posted:Is there a reason you're particularly invested into getting us to hate Japanese? Because Japan carried out one of the largest and most brutal genocides in the history of the world and absolutely no one responsible was punished for it, in fact they were all rewarded and in many cases literally put in charge of the country. Then they successfully censored any discussion of these things, to the point where they STILL pull anything that even mentions it from the shelves, and the ruling party openly says repeatedly that actually, enslaving and murdering tens of millions of Chinese people Was Good. No one in the west is taught about it, either. I think we should go extra hard on Japan because their bullshit PR has allowed them to walk away, scot free, from what was essentially a second holocaust, which they STILL brag about. Can you imagine how insane people would go if the German government came out and issued a statement saying "The Holocaust never happened, but if it did, it was good and should have been bigger", because that's basically been the Japanese government's official policy since September 3rd, 1945 and no one seems to give a poo poo. Also its funny because weird nerds, even leftists, flip poo poo when ever anyone criticizes the creators of their precious animes. Furthermore its really interesting seeing how the same arguments we apply to Germans regarding the holocaust get shoved aside for the Japanese because weird nerds cannot admit that the perfect and pure Yamato could be capable of such evil. The arguments for collective guilt regarding the Holocaust (which are correct) are not only NEVER applied to the Japanese (where they are in fact even more relevant due to differences in how the atrocities were carried out) but everyone gets mad when you do, because the idea of the Japanese being honorary Aryans is so entrenched. CaptainACAB has issued a correction as of 21:06 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 20:47
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CaptainACAB posted:Then the majority of the electorate agree enough with the LDPs policies that they dont bother voting against them. So if Japan had a two-party system where people could vote for Democrats instead of Liberal Democrats that would be better?
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Dec 23, 2021 20:50
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:So if Japan had a two-party system where people could vote for Democrats instead of Liberal Democrats that would be better? There is another party, the DPJ, that believes almost exactly the same things that the LDP does, except without the genocide parts, but they never win because the Japanese voter WANTS a militantly racist government. CaptainACAB has issued a correction as of 21:01 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 20:52
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CaptainACAB posted:Then the majority of the electorate agree enough with the LDPs policies that they dont bother voting against them. You're self-refuting. If the LDP has the entire system rigged it's rational for the average Japanese person to check out of the electoral process all together. In that respect they're no different from America.
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Dec 23, 2021 20:54
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Dreddout posted:You're self-refuting. If the LDP has the entire system rigged it's rational for the average Japanese person to check out of the electoral process all together. 36 million Japanese voted for either the LDP or another, even more right wing party in 2021. Clearly, though, the Japanese are all pure and good and everyone despises the right wing and is secretly a communist, which is why they continue voting for insane fascists over and over.
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Dec 23, 2021 20:58
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one thing I hate about the discourse on American elections is people act like the American people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Americans obviously agree with th Republicans and Democrats, which is why they keep winning.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:07
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:one thing I hate about the discourse on American elections is people act like the American people are entirely blameless and separate from their government, which is stupid because s majority of the Americans obviously agree with th Republicans and Democrats, which is why they keep winning. Yes. The American people keep getting the leaders they deserve and vote for, as do the Japanese. Trump was absolutely, in every way, the leader the American people deserved. See, this isn't so hard. Now imagine if Trump got elected by saying the Holocaust was a hoax, but he wished it had happened and you've got Shinzo Abe.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:08
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CaptainACAB posted:36 million Japanese voted for either the LDP or another, even more right wing party in 2021. Japanese voter turnout in 2020 was only 56%, which is a whole 10% lower than America's election turnout. So either everybody secretly agrees with the far right, or there's something else going on.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:09
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CaptainACAB posted:Yes. 
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Dec 23, 2021 21:10
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Japanese voter turnout in 2020 was only 56%, which is a whole 10% lower than America's election turnout. So either everybody secretly agrees with the far right, or there's something else going on. They agree with the far right enough to not vote against them. Since the LDP is a de facto winner in every election if you don't vote, you're voting for the LDP, just with less hassle. The DPJ has even won elections, but they never last because despite being identical to the LDP on 99% of all issues, it's that 1%, the racism, that sets the LDP apart and puts them over the hump.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:11
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CaptainACAB posted:They agree with the far right enough to not vote against them. Since the LDP is a de facto winner in every election if you don't vote, you're voting for the LDP, just with less hassle. I guess you could say that every Japanese election is the most important Japanese election in history.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I guess you could say that every Japanese election is the most important Japanese election in history. No they're mostly horseshit, but the Japanese have the leadership they deserve. It's just so bizzare to me how people can read the academic arguments about German collective guilt for the Holocaust, and agree with them (and you should they are correct) and then when someone tries to apply the same to Japan they act like a vampire getting hit with sunlight.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:14
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CaptainACAB posted:No they're mostly horseshit, but the Japanese have the leadership they deserve. ????
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Dec 23, 2021 21:20
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German guilt over the Holocaust also leads them to being extremely Zionist, so no I would not agree. Although I guess in Japan's case guilt for WW2 would translate into support for the CCP & DPRK. 
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Dec 23, 2021 21:20
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genericnick posted:???? Ahh. So, when it comes to things like the Holocaust and IJA atrocities (which should really have a better name) a lot of people have a false understanding of what happened. This is by design due to decades of right wing propaganda (often by the people who carried out the genocides themselves) but regardless, it is true. The way most people see it, Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust. It was Hitler and the top Nazi brass. This is not wrong, per se, but it also is. Hitler and the top Nazis may have designed and ordered the Holocaust, but they did not carry it out. Who did? The German people. Who built the camps? The German people. Who rounded up the prisoners, put them on trains and drove the trains on tracks they had laid specifically for this purpose? The German people. Who actually pulled the triggers, operated the gas chambers and crematoria, and actually, physically carried out ALL the atrocities? The German people. Who invaded their neighbors for lebensraum and ruthlessly raped, pillaged and burned everything east of the Vistula? The German people. Hitler was not some alien with mind control rays that could make the good and pure German do things they didn't agree with. Rather, Hitler was a man charismatic enough to convince normal Germans to carry out these monstrous atrocities. The Holocaust, the rise of the Nazis, the second world war, NONE of it could have happened without the widespread support, both physical and ideological, of the German people. The same applies even moreso to Japan. Yet, in the case of the Japanese, saying ANY of this results in people treating you like a racist, ironically for opposing a hideously, violently racist ideology. CaptainACAB has issued a correction as of 21:29 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 21:26
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extremely normal posting
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Dec 23, 2021 21:27
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CaptainACAB posted:Ahh. Sure, but what does that tell me? How should that inform my view of the world in any way?
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Dec 23, 2021 21:30
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CaptainACAB posted:Ahh. do we need to call someone
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Dec 23, 2021 21:33
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genericnick posted:Sure, but what does that tell me? How should that inform my view of the world in any way? Because TO THIS DAY, the ruling party of Japan, comprised of both the ideological and actual, literal, flesh and blood descendants of the people who orchestrated this genocide has alternated between denying any atrocities happened and saying that they were good. The majority of the Japanese people know this and agree with it, which is why the ruling party is the ruling party. Japan is a right wing ethnostate and the only thing that prevents it from being a nightmare is Article 9, which Nippon Kaigi freaks want to repeal. Do you know how insane people would go if the CDU in Germany came out and said the Holocaust was a hoax? Yet when the LDP does it, people either agree or look the other way.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:33
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I choose love, not hate. 
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Dec 23, 2021 21:37
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Captain ACAB what do you suppose the reason is that the Japanese are the way you think they are? What's the difference between them and other countries? Is there something inherent in Japanese psychology or genetics that predisposes them to have a extremely right-wing government?
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Dec 23, 2021 21:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I choose love, not hate. A fine ideology and one I wish the LDP would adopt.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:49
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Captain ACAB what do you suppose the reason is that the Japanese are the way you think they are? What's the difference between them and other countries? Is there something inherent in Japanese psychology or genetics that predisposes them to have a extremely right-wing government? Because they were richly rewarded for it and so have absolutely no reason to ever change. There was no reckoning either ideologically or literally. The monsters changed the name of their party, kept bragging about how many Chinese they raped to death and got even richer. Shinzo Abe's grandpa literally bragged about that by the way. In public and people still voted for him.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:51
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CaptainACAB posted:Because they were richly rewarded for it and so have absolutely no reason to ever change. There was no reckoning either ideologically or literally. The monsters changed the name of their party, kept bragging about how many Chinese they raped to death and got even richer. Who was richly rewarded? And by who? And if your answer is "the Japanese" you still have to answer the question of what makes the Japanese so different and special in your mind? Is it something inherent to the Japanese, or circumstantial? And why was there no reckoning?
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Dec 23, 2021 22:00
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CaptainACAB posted:Because TO THIS DAY, the ruling party of Japan, comprised of both the ideological and actual, literal, flesh and blood descendants of the people who orchestrated this genocide has alternated between denying any atrocities happened and saying that they were good. Don't think one line in the constitution is all that prevents a second rape of Nanjing myself. The balance of forces just isn't there. I mean I'm posting on an internet forum that's built on an old Indian cemetary from an ex axis country that pretty successfully pretended to have been a victim, actually, while we all collectively shrug and fill the Mediterranean with corpses. There's certainly a lot of room for Japan to get worse, but they're just not doing enough damage currently for me to be all that arsed about it. genericnick has issued a correction as of 22:06 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 22:03
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CaptainACAB posted:Because they were richly rewarded for it and so have absolutely no reason to ever change. There was no reckoning either ideologically or literally. The monsters changed the name of their party, kept bragging about how many Chinese they raped to death and got even richer. I believe the point of the question is what makes Japan's evil government functionally more evil than, say, a government who relected the second in a bloody political dynasty after he started one of the most brutal modern wars that wiped out entire nations' development, and then continued to support and elect the others who supported and even actively sold said war, to the point of lionizing people like, again purely hypothetically, the government official who used his military bonafides to sell the war to the world stage with outright lies? Like, nobody is saying Japan isn't racist and blood thirsty, I guess the question is why are you specifically acting like they're somehow unique in the matter vs others?
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Dec 23, 2021 22:03
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 04:34 |
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CaptainACAB posted:They agree with the far right enough to not vote against them. Since the LDP is a de facto winner in every election if you don't vote, you're voting for the LDP, just with less hassle. Do you honestly think most people agree with the American government and that people not voting isn't comprised of people that don't see the point or think both parties are the same so why bother, or just disillusioned im general with politics
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Dec 23, 2021 22:08
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