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Bar Ran Dun posted:We do many bad things but we aren’t a fascist state. add a quasi in there the US hits basically every tell-tale sign of a fascist or impending fascist state. The Republican party is mostly there and after the next election probably in power. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 23:28
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Bar Ran Dun posted:We do many bad things but we aren’t a fascist state. The U.S is a fascist state, but a very halfassed one e: Also yeah it kinda checks every "1930s germany" box(extremely poor economic conditions, low confidence in government, populace increasingly desperate for change, an out-of-touch centrist party willing to work with the right rather than budge an inch to the left), which isn't great Yinlock fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 23:30
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah I get what Wang Commander is saying but "there's good jobs out there" > "well the industry is tiny" > "they're on oil fields" is very funny. Like yeah, there are a lot of good blue collar jobs out there and they need people because an entire generation was pushed to college and told to not take blue collar work because it will grind your body into dust and kill you. And none of that's wrong, it will grind your body into dust and possibly kill you and the question then becomes is 200k a year worth that? Also for that 200k of trades work you’re going to be working 12-hour days and/or probably going to be on-call half the time. Most of your co-workers are going to be chuddy and/or racist as hell, all of your co-workers will be incredibly sexist, and a significant portion of them will be the kind of person previously mentioned in the thread that gets visibly angry if you use anything beyond a 5th grade vocabulary. None of the work you do will be creative in any way, and very little of it will feel collaborative. The money is good, the benefits are good. Everything else, not so much.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:36
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Yinlock posted:The U.S is a fascist state, but a very halfassed one I posted in another thread about Republicans being fascists: 1) Constant and pervasive nationalism 2) Militarism 3) Constant use of a specific Enemy to target 4) Rejection of human rights 5) Pervasive sexism, homophobia 6) State media/what is effectively state media 7) Corporate power is centered 8) National security focus 9) Religion and government integration 10) Obsession with crime and carceral measures I mean there's more but damned if US conservatives don't tick off every one, and a fair number of the liberals.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I don't think we have hit "Well, obviously, the only path forward is for everyone to drop out of school and try to sell a glossy .JPEG of a monkey smoking weed for $600,000" stage yet. Oh great now you tell me
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Dec 24, 2021 00:15
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Bar Ran Dun posted:We do many bad things but we aren’t a fascist state. How is "fascist" a meaningful concept when you can non-fascist-ly kill orders of magnitude more people than the "fascist" countries? Either the US is fascist, or "fascist" isn't a useful label for trying to determine "whether a country is capital-B Bad and indefensible" (which is basically the way people usually use it in discussions like this). My personal view is the latter; it's irrelevant whether a country is murdering millions of people in the name of fascism vs liberal democracy.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:17
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idiotsavant posted:Also for that 200k of trades work you’re going to be working 12-hour days and/or probably going to be on-call half the time. Most of your co-workers are going to be chuddy and/or racist as hell, all of your co-workers will be incredibly sexist, and a significant portion of them will be the kind of person previously mentioned in the thread that gets visibly angry if you use anything beyond a 5th grade vocabulary. None of the work you do will be creative in any way, and very little of it will feel collaborative. If you don't see that high-wage white collar is exactly like this with a slightly different outside appearance you're missing the point. Anywhere you can get a decent wage in the US you're getting jerked around on-call and dealing with the whitest most harassing white boys in existence, unfortunately. It's by design.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:17
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https://twitter.com/isaacstanbecker/status/1474103343828156419 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/12/the-biden-administration-rejected-an-october-proposal-for-free-rapid-tests-for-the-holidays quote:The plan called for an estimated 732 million tests per month, a number that would require a major ramp-up of manufacturing capacity. It also recommended, right on the first page, a nationwide “Testing Surge to Prevent Holiday COVID Surge.” the rest of the article goes deeper into why it ended up like this, but for the bolded especially, biden has loving blood on his hands
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Dec 24, 2021 00:31
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Yinlock posted:The U.S is a fascist state, but a very halfassed one  Can you please explain how the current US economic conditions are similar to 1930s Germany? Using specific numbers, please.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:34
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/isaacstanbecker/status/1474103343828156419 I am so, so glad the people who Believe In Science are in charge now.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:37
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Yeah for all of the bluster, they are doing a lot of the same poo poo that the Trump admin did by putting politics in front of actual good health policy
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Dec 24, 2021 00:40
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah for all of the bluster, they are doing a lot of the same poo poo that the Trump admin did by putting politics in front of actual good health policy The difference between the covid policies Biden campaigned on doing once elected, and his actual policy, well, it sure is a freakin' chasm.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:45
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Kalit posted:
inflation is so bad that the rich are having to use entire wheelbarrows full of cash to buy basic necessities like a 4th lake house
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Dec 24, 2021 02:21
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Kalit posted:
You're kinda missing the forest for the trees here. Of course it's not going to be exactly the same but the fact remains that things suck big time for a very large portion of the country and the out-of-touch ruling class shows every sign of being at best apathetic(and more commonly, delighted) about it This leads to a more fervent desire for something, anything to change(and is the reason why Trump's "outsider" poo poo stuck) and when any leftist option is systematically stamped out then there's only one direction this desire is allowed to go
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Dec 24, 2021 02:23
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https://twitter.com/KatherineEban/status/1474097120474980354 is he lying or did he honestly forget?
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Dec 24, 2021 02:31
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Ytlaya posted:How is "fascist" a meaningful concept when you can non-fascist-ly kill orders of magnitude more people than the "fascist" countries? I prefer the concept of revolutionary romanticism and most people understand that as fascism. We are in the process of heading towards that. If it happens well, ya ain’t seen nothing yet. We could be so very much worse than we are.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:33
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A big flaming stink posted:is he lying or did he honestly forget? Could be both, honestly.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:40
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idiotsavant posted:Also for that 200k of trades work you’re going to be working 12-hour days and/or probably going to be on-call half the time. Most of your co-workers are going to be chuddy and/or racist as hell, all of your co-workers will be incredibly sexist, and a significant portion of them will be the kind of person previously mentioned in the thread that gets visibly angry if you use anything beyond a 5th grade vocabulary. None of the work you do will be creative in any way, and very little of it will feel collaborative. Maybe its regional, but I’m around dozens of construction tradesworkers daily, and while mask wearing is pretty low, people talk openly about getting covid boosters, generally dont bring up politics at all, and when it does come up frequently demure to “i dont pay attention to that stuff” and swing the convo back to whatever car they own. Its really just the old as poo poo gremlins that cant seem to help keep their mouths shut, and no one on the site likes them anyways because they smell bad and dont get anything done all day. The average age of late 20s to early 30s has really changed things inside the construction trade. Its way loving better than some other blue collar fields. Pretty sure working in energy is still pretty bad though.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:44
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/KatherineEban/status/1474097120474980354 I don’t see how anyone can make an honest case that he’s handled covid better than Trump.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:58
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Nucleic Acids posted:I don’t see how anyone can make an honest case that he’s handled covid better than Trump. I feel like on some level, talking about how you Trust The Science and then just ignoring most of it is worse than never even pretending to give a poo poo in the first place.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:04
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/KatherineEban/status/1474097120474980354 Doesn't matter, he's unfit for office either way
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Dec 24, 2021 03:12
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They've both handled it poorly in different ways. Trump spent months pretending it wasn't a big deal, and the problem I'm seeing with this WH is that they keep getting overconfident that we are over the hump with the virus when it just keeps coming every 3-4 months. I don't understand after Delta and all of the deaths it caused why that would not prompt them to create a testing infrastructure. I have also seen this idea coming from them that keeping things open is more important than actually dealing with the problem, which is sadly a bipartisan response to Covid.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:They've both handled it poorly in different ways. Trump spent months pretending it wasn't a big deal, and the problem I'm seeing with this WH is that they keep getting overconfident that we are over the hump with the virus when it just keeps coming every 3-4 months. I don't understand after Delta and all of the deaths it caused why that would not prompt them to create a testing infrastructure. I have also seen this idea coming from them that keeping things open is more important than actually dealing with the problem, which is sadly a bipartisan response to Covid. It is legitimately unhinged how we're almost two years in and this entire time we've just seen this extreme reluctance towards erring on the side of caution by those in power in pretty much every level of government. Like even a mask mandate would go a long way (and in fact, was explicitly one of the anti-covid steps Biden listed on his website. Yet another promise he has no intention of fulfilling I guess!) but nope, can't even do that.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:18
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Doing little to nothing about impending crises while pretending all is well was the entire thesis of Biden's candidacy so it's not terribly surprising his presidency is following through on that The approach they're taking of implicitly blaming chuds for Omicron is a little rich, though, given you can draw a straight line between its emergence and US insistence on exploiting poorer nations for profit. I doubt Trump would've handled that any differently than Biden did but that doesn't absolve Biden
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Dec 24, 2021 03:25
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Doing little to nothing about impending crises while pretending all is well was the entire thesis of Biden's candidacy so it's not terribly surprising his presidency is following through on that
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Dec 24, 2021 03:28
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The problem is that if they actually take the decisive and forceful measures necessary to really fight this virus, then Economy Number might go down, and nobody in power wants that on their head.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:30
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Kraftwerk posted:EDIT/DISCLAIMER: My two most recent things here are opinions based on my own personal speculation and interpretation of events. I want to add that I am biased by a sense of disillusionment with the modern left. This doesn't mean I no longer hold left wing views. I just don't see a practical way forward given how entrenched capital is this time. Two things. Plenty of Mills are waking up,and working outside of the system. Second, none of this matters because climate change is going to gently caress everything up to a level that seems ridiculous in the next 20-30 years. The idea of retiring and just living an American lifestyle won’t last another 40 years.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:51
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the_steve posted:The problem is that if they actually take the decisive and forceful measures necessary to really fight this virus, then Economy Number might go down, and nobody in power wants that on their head.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:55
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Where's that study showing that economies that tackled COVID sensibly did a lot better than those that didn't Of course, actual facts are less important than the knee-jerk reactions of the handful of businessmen who control your government through legal bribery
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Dec 24, 2021 03:58
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Gort posted:Where's that study showing that economies that tackled COVID sensibly did a lot better than those that didn't If they were capable of thinking of anything besides the next quarterly report then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.
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Dec 24, 2021 04:14
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Pretty sure working in energy is still pretty bad though. Yeah as far as I know energy is still the worst and uniquely bad
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Dec 24, 2021 04:24
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/isaacstanbecker/status/1474103343828156419 I am really tired of being ruled by these poindexters who think they're clever enough to play 100-dimensional chess and trick the public into doing what they want with reverse psychology mindgames instead of just doing a proper clear public health response. Restricting covid testing to frighten people into getting vaccines wtf
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Dec 24, 2021 04:31
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How can anyone read the article and associated links and get "so and so here or so and so there want to kill people so their chosen strategy is selected." The articles discuss supply issues; sensitivity/specificity issues and confidence in the public (i.e. giving fodder for trolls to now say tests aren't real and/or effective); scale (some think 500 million is appropriate and some think it's worthless, with billions needed). Multiple links outline a host of strategies, some we are employing and some we aren't, as necessary or unnecessary (i.e. some suggest unvaccinated people be banned from airlines; some suggest every American receive KN95 masks even though they won't wear them; etc.). There are issues related to if people would use the tests; if they would use them properly or if the plan ends up giving people false confidence to go out and spread more. Frankly, I think the concerns are warranted given how Americans have behaved.
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Dec 24, 2021 04:57
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I agree, we need nationalized production and distribution of billions and billions of the accurate at home molecular tests used by the wealthy and big business.
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Dec 24, 2021 05:00
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Shammypants posted:How can anyone read the article and associated links and get "so and so here or so and so there want to kill people so their chosen strategy is selected." The articles discuss supply issues; sensitivity/specificity issues and confidence in the public (i.e. giving fodder for trolls to now say tests aren't real and/or effective); scale (some think 500 million is appropriate and some think it's worthless, with billions needed). Multiple links outline a host of strategies, some we are employing and some we aren't, as necessary or unnecessary (i.e. some suggest unvaccinated people be banned from airlines; some suggest every American receive KN95 masks even though they won't wear them; etc.). There are issues related to if people would use the tests; if they would use them properly or if the plan ends up giving people false confidence to go out and spread more. Frankly, I think the concerns are warranted given how Americans have behaved. Who cares how the tests or masks would be used if the people who would use them get them? Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 05:00
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Yinlock posted:You're kinda missing the forest for the trees here. Of course it's not going to be exactly the same but the fact remains that things suck big time for a very large portion of the country and the out-of-touch ruling class shows every sign of being at best apathetic(and more commonly, delighted) about it I mean... you were trying to draw a comparison of a time of 30+% unemployment rate to what the US is currently experiencing. That's a pretty  comparisonE: Herstory Begins Now posted:inflation is so bad that the rich are having to use entire wheelbarrows full of cash to buy basic necessities like a 4th lake house Last time I checked, inflation wasn't the economic issue in Germany in the 1930s. So I'm not sure why you're bringing that up in the defense of a dipshit comparison that Yinlock was trying to make.... Kalit fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 05:13
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Nucleic Acids posted:Who cares how the tests or masks would be used if the people who would use them get them? Who cares how they would be used? Several people cited in the article, such as Dr. Topol, check out his twitter. Tests are great, 500 million high quality tests we've been developing and trying to scale up since February 2020 may not be enough, or it may be as good as America can do considering we: do not restrict travelers in any meaningful way; do not wear masks properly or at all; have inadequate protections at work and school; are dealing with Omicron which presents symptoms differently and on and on. I'm reading further on this and seeing articles detailing how many tests we can get from foreign companies and it's a pittance- somewhere in the area of 5-10 million a month. This is not adequate for even the lower threshold advocates for tests (those suggesting ~500 million is part of a well rounded and effective strategy). It's a more complex issue that it appears. What people in the article think is necessary are multiple tests and retests, cheaply done and frequently. We cannot even get a fraction of students or workers to commit to random tests in those controlled environments, issues such as whether people will do it at home are a concern. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 05:20
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Shammypants posted:Who cares how they would be used? Several people cited in the article, such as Dr. Topol, check out his twitter. Tests are great, 500 million high quality tests we've been developing and trying to scale up since February 2020 may not be enough, or it may be as good as America can do considering we: do not restrict travelers in any meaningful way; do not wear masks properly or at all; have inadequate protections at work and school; are dealing with Omicron which presents symptoms differently and on and on. I'm reading further on this and seeing articles detailing how many tests we can get from foreign companies and it's a pittance- somewhere in the area of 5-10 million a month. This is not adequate for even the lower threshold advocates for tests (those suggesting ~500 million is part of a well rounded and effective strategy). It's a more complex issue that it appears (i.e. what people in the article think is necessary are multiple tests and retests, cheaply done and frequently. We cannot even get a fraction of students or workers to commit to random tests in those controlled environments, issues such as whether people will do it at home are a concern). Considering how the Biden administration outright rejected a plan for dealing with something like Omircon it sounds like ire should be directed towards them, considering there is no alternative and nothing in the administration's track record has suggsted that they could come up with an alternative plan.
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Dec 24, 2021 05:34
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shammy, how does any of this counter the fact that the admin has chosen to do nothing? like all those are certainly things to be concerned about, but that just leads one to the conclusion that one ought to choose their actions carefully, not decline from taking action all together!
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Dec 24, 2021 05:35
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Nucleic Acids posted:Considering how the Biden administration outright rejected a plan for dealing with something like Omircon it sounds like ire should be directed towards them, considering there is no alternative and nothing in the administration's track record has suggsted that they could come up with an alternative plan. Those at the meeting weren't in agreement as to what the plan should be. Topol and his allies believe we should have started a year before Biden's administration (his quote) to arrive at the billions of rapid tests for a massive 'multiple test-retest scenario.' The rapid tests would need to be in the billions and this plan would require Americans to go along with it (when they have so lovingly gone along with every other strategy to mitigate virus spread). Some sources suggest that even scaling up to 300 million tests developed a month by early next year would only provide a single monthly test rather than the weekly suggested by those at the meeting (as a low end figure). What did occur a year ago is that we've been pouring money into developing appropriately approved tests that carry with them the specificity/sensitivity necessary to garner public trust. To fill the gaps in testing need billions were put into buying out entire inventories of companies developing rapid tests (literally every test) and making them available for free. Only after Omicron emerged did we see lines indicating existing testing mechanisms were inadequate and moved to develop home tests to compensate. Again, what tests and when was not agreed upon, and broad testing regimes was not in the top 3-5 items for some experts at the meeting (not even Topol interestingly enough). So here is my bottom line. A nation that can barely get 25% of it's people to cooperate with contact tracers, where we can't get people to get vaccinated, where we can't get get students/workers enrolled in random testing programs that already exist to any meaningful degree, where we can't get people to wear a mask or wear a mask properly and on and on would still see a spike in Winter. Should we pursue testing strategies, yes, are other strategies more important to pursue, yes. Can we pursue them because we're America? Probably not. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 05:48
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