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Something that Tom or Shiv said made me think that they got together during a point when Shiv was very vulnerable and un-Roy-like. Ive seen when a party girl hits rock bottom for whatever reason and hooks up with some well-meaning goober who’s out of his depth. Very similar dynamic. Never turns out well for the goober.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:59
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Also hoping Logan dies mid-way next season. Love love Brian Cox, but want to see those chickens run around headless now that they're at their lowest.
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Dec 24, 2021 01:38
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I'm sorry to be the guy who's bad at watching TV, but I am. Connor has a different mother than Shiv, Kendall and Roman, right? Was it from a previous marriage, or an affair?
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Dec 24, 2021 02:28
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I'm sorry to be the guy who's bad at watching TV, but I am. Connor has a different mother than Shiv, Kendall and Roman, right? Was it from a previous marriage, or an affair? Logan’s first marriage with a woman who I think has been mentioned once, if ever.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:28
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I'm sorry to be the guy who's bad at watching TV, but I am. Connor has a different mother than Shiv, Kendall and Roman, right? Was it from a previous marriage, or an affair? I wondered the same thing, but I just checked a wiki. Because of course one exists.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:43
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Yea I'm not a big fan of when writers mention something once in a show buried in dialogue somewhere and then refer to it repeatedly later like it was something very well established. Maybe it's fan service for when folks hang on every word, I'm not sure. Connor having a different mother is one of those things.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:05
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Connor's mom ended up in a loony bin. It crops up several times in the show.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:24
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Shageletic posted:Connor's mom ended up in a loony bin. It crops up several times in the show. I don't recall that ever being mentioned... Sure it was from this show?
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Dec 24, 2021 03:44
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It’s come up a few times, yeah. Roman mocked him at one point for crying about his mom going to “the booby hatch”. It’s not clear if she’s still alive though, but I’d guess not.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:54
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DropsySufferer posted:I don't recall that ever being mentioned... Sure it was from this show? Roman brings it up back in season 2.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:56
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Connor’s mom was also the person who established the ballet charity I believe?
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Dec 24, 2021 15:43
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The Beauty Of (cinematography Youtube channel) just did a Succession episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn6k4STHwiA
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Dec 24, 2021 17:22
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a new study bible! posted:Finally got caught up on this season- random thoughts on the finale: I also feel like Tom telling Greg about the switch up to a better date is exactly what Tom did to Shiv, switching up to her dad
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Dec 26, 2021 08:44
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I've only just caught up on the entire season. Was the scene with Roman and Mencken in the bath room overflowing with homoerotic energy, or am I imagining things? I mean, more than between Roman and everyone else, because there's an already high baseline.
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Dec 26, 2021 14:42
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EricBauman posted:I've only just caught up on the entire season. Absolutely. I definitely thought ". . . is he about to make a pass at Roman?" Also I cannot think about Roman's without considering him to be a much less extreme version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5oBBziEl8E
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Dec 26, 2021 16:04
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DaveKap posted:But the point is that Greg is a bad person pretending to be good... and Tom's employees... Just catching up on this thread and it's always hilarious seeing a show about complex characters navigating their lives put through the reddit/twitter matrix of 'good character' or 'bad character'. Like, the whole point of Succession is they're all people driven by greed and a lust for power, but are still people with ideals and relationships and who are written well enough to be relatable and even likeable. There are no secret 'good' characters and no fence to put characters on different sides of. Just well-written interesting characters who are caught between their self-interest and their interpersonal relationships (or maybe the cutthroat demands of top-level capitalism and their basic sense of humanity) in a way scares people who need to know who to root for. If anything, the way Greg gets slowly corrupted through the course of the show is a good example of this. I think it's a little simplistic to be like 'Waystar has brought out his true bad self' when the show is clearly going more for an exploration of how people are influenced by their environment. I think the only thing about Greg that's really secret at the start is just how perceptive he is - all through the first couple of seasons he's watching and learning how to maneuvre in the c-suite world, despite his awkwardness. Anyway, loved season 3. The whole scene with the 3 siblings outside in the final ep is just a perfect summary of what the whole show is trying to go for.
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Dec 26, 2021 18:25
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The Grumbles posted:Just catching up on this thread and it's always hilarious seeing a show about complex characters navigating their lives put through the reddit/twitter matrix of 'good character' or 'bad character'.
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Dec 27, 2021 12:05
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I love that Tom's deal proposal to Greg hinged on a shift from "endless middle" to "bottom of the top".
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Dec 27, 2021 17:55
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sticklefifer posted:I love that Tom's deal proposal to Greg hinged on a shift from "endless middle" to "bottom of the top". Agreed — the writing there was particularly tight and witty. There is something that feels truly endless about the middle.
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Dec 27, 2021 18:06
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My mom now think I am insane because i empathized with Tom over Kendall. She asked me "Why do you always take the side of the WEAK?" and only sees him as a gold digger. I think he genuinely seems to love Shiv and the way she treats him just rubs me the wrong way. Am that pathetic? Edit: I confess that maybe i am just a tad jealous that my mom seems to show Kendall far more pity and empathy than she has ever shown me. Yes, I might in fact be jealous of a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 16:08
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Your mum sounds nice.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:12
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AceOfFlames posted:My mom now think I am insane because i empathized with Tom over Kendall. She asked me "Why do you always take the side of the WEAK?" and only sees him as a gold digger. I think he genuinely seems to love Shiv and the way she treats him just rubs me the wrong way. Am that pathetic? I wouldn't be embarrassed about this; if anything, it's worse that your mom feel that way, that much stronger, towards a fictional character than a real-life person. I'd be upset if my parents did that for someone IRL, but I'd be WAY more upset about it if it was for someone who didn't even exist. She should be the embarrassed one, though something tells me that she's not feeling any of that at all.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:15
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That's not pathetic. Succession is one of those shows, where, yes, every character loving sucks rear end, but I would say (almost) every viewer has SOMETHING that makes them go "[character] sucks and is a rich rear end in a top hat, but drat, I feel for them right now!" whether that be a loveless relationship, an addiction, abuse from parent(s), being caught between money and morals, constantly being left out because you have a different parent, being seen as less-than because you're a woman, having money but no one you can trust...you get the gist. The show is filled with people (usually family) doing so much dirt to each other, that it seems pretty normal to have moments of feeling sorry for a character, even if they're a bad person.
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Dec 29, 2021 18:33
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Does your mom have any large business you can scheme to usurp?
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Dec 29, 2021 18:44
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AceOfFlames posted:My mom now think I am insane because i empathized with Tom over Kendall. She asked me "Why do you always take the side of the WEAK?" How is Kendall anything other than weak? What about him does your mom find to be strong? E: I seriously want you to ask your mom to list Kendall's "strong" traits. He's a chump who gets taken advantage of in every business dealing, with the sole possible exception of when he convinced the employees in that internet media company not to unionize and then fired them. Of course, that's the same company he hugely overpaid for (weak), skipped an opportunity to work on the deal to go to his dad's birthday party (absolutely weak by Logan's standards), tips the internet billionaire guy off to his plan at his own birthday party and then the internet billionaire guy takes the plan for himself (weak), caves as soon as his father has any dirt on him re: the dead waiter (weak), blows off the best lawyer in the world and his own media team and lets his father flip the script on the whole scandal (weak), and can never close the deal after what, 3? 4? attempts to oust Logan. Ken is Weaky McWeakerson. regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 19:29
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regulargonzalez posted:How is Kendall anything other than weak? What about him does your mom find to be strong?  , would be my guess. Or trying to vote out his dad.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:30
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If Kendall wasn't rich the nonsense buzzword salad he spews when he's trying to talk business wouldn't even get him an internship.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:01
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Kendall speaks like all of the moron MBA product managers I’ve had to work with over the years, I think he’d be just fine in the endless middle
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Dec 29, 2021 20:25
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Lately I've been seeing a lot of women doing the whole "MANIFESTING" thing on social media and it drives me insane, so I'd kill for a clip/.gif of Kendall going "manifested!" during the DoJ raid.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:28
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socialsecurity posted:If Kendall wasn't rich the nonsense buzzword salad he spews when he's trying to talk business wouldn't even get him an internship. I think that's what my mom is fooled by. He definitely SOUNDS capable if you have no idea what business is like but if you actually analyze what he says, it's far less impressive. It also doesn't help that the official Portuguese subtitles are utterly atrocious half the time and cut out a lot of the nuance (one bit I found utterly unforgivable was inexplicably changing "climate change deniers" to "change deniers" during Ewan's "Logan is worse than Hitler" speech)
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Dec 29, 2021 20:56
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in season 1, when bill is describing the death pit to Tom, he pulls out a laptop and says that it's airgapped, but then says he needs to print a word document, but doesn't plug in a printer cable. my immersion!
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Dec 29, 2021 22:55
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Doing a rewatch with a mate that hasn't seen it. gently caress, season 2 is so good. Every episode has some iconic/memorable location or scene. We just got done with Hungary/boar on the floor (or maybe the saferoom/Mo Lester episode, can't remember which was first). Holy poo poo, it's so much fun watching the siblings metaphorically hip checking each other behind dad's back to try and be the number 1.
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Dec 30, 2021 10:41
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Re: Tom. I've always disliked him cause of the way he treats Greg, but I've been a bit more sympathetic to him this rewatch. I have to disagree on the Gold Digger thing though, that's just plain wrong. He had his heart set on running the company, which has been the story for the one and a half seasons. Was he after an easier way to top via nepotism? Sure. But in no way has his character been framed as "marrying into a wealthy family so he can coast by and be rich"
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Dec 30, 2021 10:45
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How hosed are the kids? I know the answer is "as much as the writers want them to he" but they are still super rich but no longer players in the new org?
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Dec 30, 2021 12:28
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i love tom because he's an awful, spineless little worm. his character is great because he comes across as very cerebral (makes highbrow cultural references, understands how to play the game, is observant and weirdly self-aware), but also uses employees as furniture and gets effortlessly steamrolled by anybody with the surname 'roy'. it rules.
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Dec 30, 2021 12:28
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Looten Plunder posted:Re: Tom. I've always disliked him cause of the way he treats Greg, but I've been a bit more sympathetic to him this rewatch. It might be a push to say his whole deal is wanting to run the company - I think he's more just desparately wanting to be on an even keel with the Roys + the rest of the c-suite. One of my favourite details about him is how the Roys tend to treat him like this midwestern farmboy, when it's pretty obvious he's actually from a pretty comfortable upper middle class background (his mother is a well-regarded lawyer etc). So many scenes with him are perfect in that context - the endless middle/bottom of the top speech, his childlike glee at how great it is being extremely rich when he goes to dinner with Greg in that earlier season, etc. I love how it makes him arguably more ambitious than the Roys (because the extreme wealth that surrounds him is aspirational), but also weaker in certain ways, because he covets it, and could concievably stand to lose it in a way that the Roys couldn't. The Roys will always be obscenely rich. So to them, he's still one of the peasants because he comes from a class of people for whom money is still an object. I think Tom might be my favourite character. I love how much the power dynamics shift depending on who is in the room with him, in a way that doesn't really happen with anyone else. But all those versions of him - cowering before Logan or beating the poo poo out of Greg - all still feel like the same person. It's just a really amazing performance, which I think slips under the radar a little because the character's not a Roy. notaspy posted:How hosed are the kids? I know the answer is "as much as the writers want them to he" but they are still super rich but no longer players in the new org? Yeah one of the central conceits of this show is that barring some wild turn of plot events, the Roys are always going to be fine on a basic material level. The kids will still likely be billionaires, even if they don't have any control over the company. They're not really motivated by money because they've grown up in an environment where it is no object - it's more about power. So Connor doesn't get to have a go at being President without family control over the company, Shiv probably can't just waltz into lobbying jobs if she's not a useful asset in terms of her access to Waystar, Roman doesn't have an environment where he can jack off on a plate glass window bc he's the boss' son, etc etc. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 13:00
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The Grumbles posted:It might be a push to say his whole deal is wanting to run the company - I think he's more just desparately wanting to be on an even keel with the Roys + the rest of the c-suite. He wanted to be the CEO at the beginning of the show. This is why he was so gutted when Shiv told him she's been tapped on the shoulder by Logan. Also why Roman felt super threatened by Tom when he invited him to dinner).
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Dec 30, 2021 22:40
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The Grumbles posted:Yeah one of the central conceits of this show is that barring some wild turn of plot events, the Roys are always going to be fine on a basic material level. The kids will still likely be billionaires, even if they don't have any control over the company. They're not really motivated by money because they've grown up in an environment where it is no object - it's more about power. So Connor doesn't get to have a go at being President without family control over the company, Shiv probably can't just waltz into lobbying jobs if she's not a useful asset in terms of her access to Waystar, Roman doesn't have an environment where he can jack off on a plate glass window bc he's the boss' son, etc etc. Yup. Remember when they were at that billionaire's retreat or whatever and all the billionaires were jockeying to land their private plane first? The kids will always be able to pay for private planes, but they'll never be anywhere near the front of that kind of line anymore, and that's all that matters to people like them.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:47
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Is Romans name actually Roman or Romulus?
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Dec 30, 2021 23:52
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notaspy posted:How hosed are the kids? I know the answer is "as much as the writers want them to he" but they are still super rich but no longer players in the new org? How powerless can a billionaire be?
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Dec 30, 2021 23:58
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