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Kumquat
Oct 8, 2010

AgentCow007 posted:

I've been at my 'junior software developer' job for a year now and still haven't touched a line of production code.

I took a contractor job out of college because COVID was just kicking off, it was an easy in, and the salary was acceptable. I did 6 months of goofy Java "training" as per my contract, then I had no contact from anyone for 3 months, and then finally they put me on a team doing manual QA for IoT appliances and their apps. The workload is still really low... last week was a busy week when I got asked to do two 15 minute tasks.

I'm so conflicted because I'm the laziest motherfucker on the internet and I love getting paid to have unlimited free time and an excuse to stay home, but also I am mortified that I put work into school and learning to code, and actually like it, but don't do it. It's pretty demoralizing in a way I shouldn't let continue.

Anyone have any advice on how I might transition to something while mitigating the whole factor of "I spent my first year as a software developer developing nothing"? I've written a few small JS CRUD apps and web scrapers in my personal time but nothing really portfolio worthy. I'm thinking a solid portfolio app might be a good next step, but that seems more like something that would land me in the same pay range, and not leverage anything I've [allegedly] done this year for any sort of advancement.

I'm only half joking when I say get another job but don't quit this one and just reap two paychecks.

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Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

AgentCow007 posted:

I've been at my 'junior software developer' job for a year now and still haven't touched a line of production code.

I took a contractor job out of college because COVID was just kicking off, it was an easy in, and the salary was acceptable. I did 6 months of goofy Java "training" as per my contract, then I had no contact from anyone for 3 months, and then finally they put me on a team doing manual QA for IoT appliances and their apps. The workload is still really low... last week was a busy week when I got asked to do two 15 minute tasks.

I'm so conflicted because I'm the laziest motherfucker on the internet and I love getting paid to have unlimited free time and an excuse to stay home, but also I am mortified that I put work into school and learning to code, and actually like it, but don't do it. It's pretty demoralizing in a way I shouldn't let continue.

Anyone have any advice on how I might transition to something while mitigating the whole factor of "I spent my first year as a software developer developing nothing"? I've written a few small JS CRUD apps and web scrapers in my personal time but nothing really portfolio worthy. I'm thinking a solid portfolio app might be a good next step, but that seems more like something that would land me in the same pay range, and not leverage anything I've [allegedly] done this year for any sort of advancement.

Having 1 year of professional experience, even what you think is garbage experience, already puts you leagues ahead of a lot of junior dev applicants coming out of sus bootcamps and such. If you can have some examples of building something and what you learned from it, and can stumble through some coding problems you can do it I promise you.

After the new year would be a fantastic time to do some interviews and likely get some offers. New year, new budgets, new headcount, everyone recharged off the holidays, etc.

Kumquat posted:

I'm only half joking when I say get another job but don't quit this one and just reap two paychecks.

Also this... mostly joking. But definitely use your lax full time job to hunt for a new one. Or work on skills to hunt for a new one.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

AgentCow007 posted:

I've been at my 'junior software developer' job for a year now and still haven't touched a line of production code.

I took a contractor job out of college because COVID was just kicking off, it was an easy in, and the salary was acceptable. I did 6 months of goofy Java "training" as per my contract, then I had no contact from anyone for 3 months, and then finally they put me on a team doing manual QA for IoT appliances and their apps. The workload is still really low... last week was a busy week when I got asked to do two 15 minute tasks.

I'm so conflicted because I'm the laziest motherfucker on the internet and I love getting paid to have unlimited free time and an excuse to stay home, but also I am mortified that I put work into school and learning to code, and actually like it, but don't do it. It's pretty demoralizing in a way I shouldn't let continue.

Anyone have any advice on how I might transition to something while mitigating the whole factor of "I spent my first year as a software developer developing nothing"? I've written a few small JS CRUD apps and web scrapers in my personal time but nothing really portfolio worthy. I'm thinking a solid portfolio app might be a good next step, but that seems more like something that would land me in the same pay range, and not leverage anything I've [allegedly] done this year for any sort of advancement.

Use your free time to job hunt.

When people ask you about your previous job, play up the positives. Don't mention the negatives. This isn't regarded as lying, but as being a responsible professional. Yeah, it's weird.

Are we still recommending Cracking the Coding Interview? Running through the problems in that in your extensive free time wouldn't be a bad idea, and then you could honestly say that you spent a lot of time developing efficient algorithms at your current job. You don't have to do them all at once, you can do one or two a day since you aren't in a hurry.

Having a portfolio piece to show off helps, I guess? But I've gotten every job I've ever had without one. Most people accept that everything you worked on at your previous employer is proprietary and you can't share it.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

AgentCow007 posted:

I've been at my 'junior software developer' job for a year now and still haven't touched a line of production code.

I took a contractor job out of college because COVID was just kicking off, it was an easy in, and the salary was acceptable. I did 6 months of goofy Java "training" as per my contract, then I had no contact from anyone for 3 months, and then finally they put me on a team doing manual QA for IoT appliances and their apps. The workload is still really low... last week was a busy week when I got asked to do two 15 minute tasks.

I'm so conflicted because I'm the laziest motherfucker on the internet and I love getting paid to have unlimited free time and an excuse to stay home, but also I am mortified that I put work into school and learning to code, and actually like it, but don't do it. It's pretty demoralizing in a way I shouldn't let continue.

Anyone have any advice on how I might transition to something while mitigating the whole factor of "I spent my first year as a software developer developing nothing"? I've written a few small JS CRUD apps and web scrapers in my personal time but nothing really portfolio worthy. I'm thinking a solid portfolio app might be a good next step, but that seems more like something that would land me in the same pay range, and not leverage anything I've [allegedly] done this year for any sort of advancement.

Yeah honestly you should be able to land another job as a junior/associate without a lot of trouble after a year working. There's a world of difference in an interviewer's eyes between "junior candidate with 1 year experience" and "fresh grad, same as all the other fresh grads, just throw a dart." I would definitely start looking though, you should be spending the majority of your time coding at your level. They're wasting your time and staying there is going to hurt your career long term.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
As others already mentioned, a year of experience already puts you a step above other new grads. If your Java training was any good you might even be able to jump up to an intermediate position.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
Now that I've been a manager for a couple months, I have a lot more insight into some of the feelings I've had about old managers.

A lot of them really _didn't_ do anything.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Che Delilas posted:

They're wasting your time and staying there is going to hurt your career long term.

Solid advice

College Rockout
Jan 10, 2010

I did two phone interviews for google and got invited back for a virtual onsite. Any tips/advice for onsite day? I feel good about my prep and I have plenty of time to review because of the holiday slowdown. My main concern is how to stay sharp for the whole day and not adrenaline dump and crash after the first interview (which I did during the phones). All I can think to do is just grind mock interviews :shrug:.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



the most effective thing you can do is not give a poo poo

i don't really know how to cultivate that though, so this is unhelpful.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

College Rockout posted:

I did two phone interviews for google and got invited back for a virtual onsite. Any tips/advice for onsite day? I feel good about my prep and I have plenty of time to review because of the holiday slowdown. My main concern is how to stay sharp for the whole day and not adrenaline dump and crash after the first interview (which I did during the phones). All I can think to do is just grind mock interviews :shrug:.

Eat something before your interviews.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
More specifically, eat an adderall

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Achmed Jones posted:

the most effective thing you can do is not give a poo poo

i don't really know how to cultivate that though, so this is unhelpful.

quantity has a quality of its own for this

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


College Rockout posted:

I did two phone interviews for google and got invited back for a virtual onsite. Any tips/advice for onsite day? I feel good about my prep and I have plenty of time to review because of the holiday slowdown. My main concern is how to stay sharp for the whole day and not adrenaline dump and crash after the first interview (which I did during the phones). All I can think to do is just grind mock interviews :shrug:.

My approach was to cram LeetCode and after reflecting on my past few months here Ive come to the conclusion that I have no real advice, its a lottery. Do your best, good luck, and remember: you matter!

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
roll more dice. the odds are way more like craps than the lottery, and the relative independence of dice throws means that you can be basically certain of gettin a deec job if you throw dice like 30 times

asur
Dec 28, 2012
You can do anywhere from meh to badly on at least one out of the five or six. So don't let it one bad interview ruin the remaining ones.

The dice roll comment is spot on. Odds are low but if you have reasonable algorithm knowledge, even with gaps, you can get offers if you interview enough to weed out interviews that have questions you don't know, garbage questions, and garbage interviewers.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

asur posted:

The dice roll comment is spot on. Odds are low but if you have reasonable algorithm knowledge, even with gaps, you can get offers if you interview enough to weed out interviews that have questions you don't know, garbage questions, and garbage interviewers.

I would really dig a question on garbage collecting. That be a nice change of pace.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



lifg posted:

I would really dig a question on garbage collecting. That be a nice change of pace.

this is weird. nobody's gonna ask you about printing out my posts

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



bob dobbs is dead posted:

quantity has a quality of its own for this

yeah this is true

College Rockout
Jan 10, 2010

Thanks for the responses! Admittedly I have been obsessing over being prepared for this and non-stop grinding leetcode. Sounds like the best thing to do is keep applying for jobs and work on my mental hygiene to be in the best headspace going into it. Cheers, I'll let y'all know how it goes in January.

hendersa
Sep 17, 2006

College Rockout posted:

I did two phone interviews for google and got invited back for a virtual onsite. Any tips/advice for onsite day?
This might help. Instead of trying to use that awful drawing tool in Google Docs, set up something like this:

I put a second webcam on a tripod and aimed it at a whiteboard. I fed the input from the camera into Webcamoid and then shared the Webcamoid preview window when needed during the interview. I used Webcamoid's Configure Effects -> Matrix Transform with a transform of:

[-1, 0, 0]
[ 0,-1, 0]


... to rotate the image 180 degrees. That way, the picture was right-side up for both me and the interviewer. The black lines on the board show me the cutoff points where the camera can't see, so I can keep my writing in the visible area of the board. There's a keystone effect to the image, but nothing so bad that it is distracting. Tape the tripod with masking tape to keep it from rotating and to keep it anchored to the same spot on the whiteboard.

Let me tell you, I used this in three of my five Google interviews, and each of my interviewers said that they thought this setup was fantastic. Rather than having to watch a candidate try to explain things with their hands or use that slow drawing tool, they saw me do one or two quick sketches, gave their feedback, and we got the show on the road ASAP. There was one coding question that I got that involved pointer math and memory alignment, and using this setup totally saved my butt because I could sketch pointers and where they pointed to in various buffers.

The Google interviewers want to "see how you think" in your interviews, and it's hard to beat a setup like this. I'd sketch something, point at things, talk to the interviewer, do a quick erase and redraw, etc. You can also write things like the big-O time for various things on the side as you discuss options and the like. Finally, once you get a solid plan of attack, you type the important bits into the Google Doc that they share with you so that the interviewer can refer to it later. The interviewer is left with the impression that you're organized with a plan of attack and that you're ready to explain everything with examples quickly and efficiently.

Edit: Also, if you have a really snazzy diagram that sums everything up nicely, you can screenshot the preview window and then Ctrl-V the image into the Google Doc so that the interviewer has it in his/her notes. :discourse:

hendersa fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Dec 23, 2021

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

hendersa posted:

This might help. Instead of trying to use that awful drawing tool in Google Docs, set up something like this:

I put a second webcam on a tripod and aimed it at a whiteboard. I fed the input from the camera into Webcamoid and then shared the Webcamoid preview window when needed during the interview. I used Webcamoid's Configure Effects -> Matrix Transform with a transform of:

[-1, 0, 0]
[ 0,-1, 0]


... to rotate the image 180 degrees. That way, the picture was right-side up for both me and the interviewer. The black lines on the board show me the cutoff points where the camera can't see, so I can keep my writing in the visible area of the board. There's a keystone effect to the image, but nothing so bad that it is distracting. Tape the tripod with masking tape to keep it from rotating and to keep it anchored to the same spot on the whiteboard.

Let me tell you, I used this in three of my five Google interviews, and each of my interviewers said that they thought this setup was fantastic. Rather than having to watch a candidate try to explain things with their hands or use that slow drawing tool, they saw me do one or two quick sketches, gave their feedback, and we got the show on the road ASAP. There was one coding question that I got that involved pointer math and memory alignment, and using this setup totally saved my butt because I could sketch pointers and where they pointed to in various buffers.

The Google interviewers want to "see how you think" in your interviews, and it's hard to beat a setup like this. I'd sketch something, point at things, talk to the interviewer, do a quick erase and redraw, etc. You can also write things like the big-O time for various things on the side as you discuss options and the like. Finally, once you get a solid plan of attack, you type the important bits into the Google Doc that they share with you so that the interviewer can refer to it later. The interviewer is left with the impression that you're organized with a plan of attack and that you're ready to explain everything with examples quickly and efficiently.

Edit: Also, if you have a really snazzy diagram that sums everything up nicely, you can screenshot the preview window and then Ctrl-V the image into the Google Doc so that the interviewer has it in his/her notes. :discourse:

I imagine you get bonus points just for having a setup like that.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've been doing effectively the same thing with a cheap drawing tablet and screen share for years now. It has the added bonus of working as a second monitor when you're not drawing on it. And also not taking up so much space.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



yeah but that's using a product for its intended purpose. there's not even a hint of rube goldberg in there. boooooooriiiiiiing

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Motronic posted:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've been doing effectively the same thing with a cheap drawing tablet and screen share for years now. It has the added bonus of working as a second monitor when you're not drawing on it. And also not taking up so much space.

Also a good idea, but the whiteboard is bigger :p

hendersa
Sep 17, 2006

Motronic posted:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've been doing effectively the same thing with a cheap drawing tablet and screen share for years now. It has the added bonus of working as a second monitor when you're not drawing on it. And also not taking up so much space.
If you've got a tablet and it works for you, by all means use it. The important thing is to not use the drawing tool in Google Docs with just a mouse to work with. I don't have a tablet and occasionally need to have my hands in the image while I work, so I've got this setup.

Achmed Jones posted:

yeah but that's using a product for its intended purpose. there's not even a hint of rube goldberg in there. boooooooriiiiiiing
Well, I have a different use-case than most people here, I suspect...

Anyway, if you don't have a tablet, but you do have a webcam sitting around, point the webcam at a sheet of paper and you're off to the races for cheap. The Google interview tip PDFs that are provided to candidates state that you can use paper and pencil if that is your preference. The problem is, I held a sheet of paper up for my laptop's integrated webcam and the webcam would blur it, apply the background filter to the paper, or just couldn't see it well enough. So, the second webcam with a shared preview window was the way to go with what I had available.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



i'm just joshin ya, no defense necessary - it's a cool setup

also it's fun to make rube goldberg stuff

hendersa
Sep 17, 2006

Achmed Jones posted:

i'm just joshin ya, no defense necessary - it's a cool setup
Thanks! :hfive:

quote:

also it's fun to make rube goldberg stuff
It is! It's even better when you can justify doing it for a "serious" reason of some sort.

College Rockout
Jan 10, 2010

hendersa posted:

This might help. Instead of trying to use that awful drawing tool in Google Docs, set up something like this:

I put a second webcam on a tripod and aimed it at a whiteboard. I fed the input from the camera into Webcamoid and then shared the Webcamoid preview window when needed during the interview. I used Webcamoid's Configure Effects -> Matrix Transform with a transform of:

[-1, 0, 0]
[ 0,-1, 0]


... to rotate the image 180 degrees. That way, the picture was right-side up for both me and the interviewer. The black lines on the board show me the cutoff points where the camera can't see, so I can keep my writing in the visible area of the board. There's a keystone effect to the image, but nothing so bad that it is distracting. Tape the tripod with masking tape to keep it from rotating and to keep it anchored to the same spot on the whiteboard.

Let me tell you, I used this in three of my five Google interviews, and each of my interviewers said that they thought this setup was fantastic. Rather than having to watch a candidate try to explain things with their hands or use that slow drawing tool, they saw me do one or two quick sketches, gave their feedback, and we got the show on the road ASAP. There was one coding question that I got that involved pointer math and memory alignment, and using this setup totally saved my butt because I could sketch pointers and where they pointed to in various buffers.

The Google interviewers want to "see how you think" in your interviews, and it's hard to beat a setup like this. I'd sketch something, point at things, talk to the interviewer, do a quick erase and redraw, etc. You can also write things like the big-O time for various things on the side as you discuss options and the like. Finally, once you get a solid plan of attack, you type the important bits into the Google Doc that they share with you so that the interviewer can refer to it later. The interviewer is left with the impression that you're organized with a plan of attack and that you're ready to explain everything with examples quickly and efficiently.

Edit: Also, if you have a really snazzy diagram that sums everything up nicely, you can screenshot the preview window and then Ctrl-V the image into the Google Doc so that the interviewer has it in his/her notes. :discourse:

This is a really cool setup, stealing this. I can see this being immensely helpful for working through tree and graph problems too. It takes me a god awful long time to *show my thinking* and work through test cases for those because I've had to diagram them in the editor using spaces and slashes and it's terrible
pre:
          10
        /    \
      5        11
    /   \
  1      2
and like you said, I could use pen and paper but that turns into the interviewer not knowing what I'm doing real quick. Thanks for the suggestion!

oliveoil
Apr 22, 2016
Feel like my new team's documentation is an oral tradition.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

oliveoil posted:

Feel like my new team's documentation is an oral tradition.

At least you can afford to eat now.

Illusive Fuck Man
Jul 5, 2004
RIP John McCain feel better xoxo 💋 🙏
Taco Defender
Documentation wise, I kinda feel like my team is on the other end of that spectrum right now. We have dozens and dozens of markdown-based docs describing our internal architecture and procedures. It's not terrible, but they aren't organized in a consistent fashion and aren't updated frequently enough to keep up with reality. This is the natural result of organically adding new docs over the years.

Part of me wants to plan a structure and reorganize all the docs, delete outdated / duplicated information, and add some automation / policy so it stays up to date.

On the one hand it feels like it would be extremely helpful for the team (especially newer members), but I dunno if it's 'next level impact' so it's hard to make time for. Maybe I can just propose it as a project and see if anyone else is interested.

Vinz Clortho
Jul 19, 2004

leper khan posted:

At least you can afford to eat now.

:vince:

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
maybe he will get some gambling debts and lose the money to eat food again this time w job

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

oliveoil posted:

Feel like my new team's documentation is an oral tradition.
don't call the oral tradition "tribal knowledge." the original idea in one of my previous companies was to start writing things down and putting them in the wiki, and someone flipped out about the term "tribal knowledge" being on the about page describing what we were doing. i'm not sure if mediawiki's documentation actually uses the term or we had a skilled liar in the group, but that somehow justified a switch to sharepoint.

i also remember being in actual meetings where people would have irl edit wars and complain about the professionalism of pages (that were only visible on a corporate intranet.)

i never complain about lack of documentation anymore. if they want to pay me to ask a bunch of random questions to people who can't be bothered, or reverse engineer someone's code so i can do my own job, fine by me, there are worse things that not having documentation. I drink myself to sleep some nights to forget what I have seen.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004


This guy fucks

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


But what about the totem of corporate values?

E: just remembered that one of my former employers is headquartered in unincorporated area called Indian Land.

gbut fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 23, 2021

luchadornado
Oct 7, 2004

A boombox is not a toy!

I really like my current approach to documentation:
- every repo has a "reason this exists" and simple design diagram right at the top of the README.md, and how to debug and deploy
- playbooks for common things like "how to reset kafka offsets"
- insomnia and navi configs
- markdown ADRs for the big problems

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

luchadornado posted:

- markdown ADRs for the big problems

This is the most impactful IMO.

Illusive Fuck Man
Jul 5, 2004
RIP John McCain feel better xoxo 💋 🙏
Taco Defender
Yeah, keeping track of decisions is super important for anything with a lifespan of years. My team has not been consistent on this, and now I feel like half my comments on design reviews are like "I see that your design is trying to be consistent with what we've done in the past, but to provide some context, when we decided to do things that way: (we did it for abcd reasons stopped mattering 2 years ago || we overlooked wxyz and regret it || we literally didn't consider any alternatives because we didn't know better)"

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luchadornado
Oct 7, 2004

A boombox is not a toy!

Has anyone org figured out a pivot away from Docker Desktop for OSX yet? Given the lack of news, I'm assuming a lot of companies will be paying Docker in a month.

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