|
Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
|
2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
|
4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
|
117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
|
11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
|
54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, it’s good that if it has greater spread it’s less fatal. Greater spread means you get more cases, which means the percent that is serious is a greater real world number. This is not hard.
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
StratGoatCom posted:What part of 'greater spread' do you not get? We're already aware of the higher spread. OOCC is saying that it's a good thing that this faster spreading variant has a milder severity, which is an objectively true statement. Nobody here is arguing that the existance of omicron is a net positive for the world. But it's not as bad as it could be. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 15:57
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s better for society if less people die. Oocc you do get that the problem is that there is an absolute number of cases that healthcare systems can tolerate before widespread disruption and/or collapse right if omicron's increased transmissibility causes it to breach that number then its base lethality ceases to matter
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 15:57
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s better for society if less people die. This assumes that ICU and hospital capacity can be scaled up on demand. When healthcare systems are overloaded, CFR shoots WAY up (remember it was 10+% in March of 2020 where healthcare systems were slammed, and more reasonable elsewhere).
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 15:59
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:Oocc you do get that the problem is that there is an absolute number of cases that healthcare systems can tolerate before widespread disruption and/or collapse right Yeah, if I was making omicron in a lab I’d keep that in mind. As it is it objectively has greater spread. End of story. So it’s very lucky if it’s even .1% less deadly. More so if omicron had turned out to barely spread at all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:00
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, it’s good that if it has greater spread it’s less fatal. No, but people do seem happy that Omicron is more mild. Which is good against a theoretical worse variant that doesn't exist yet. But is bad in reality because it means that people are taking more risks under the assumption that "it's mild" when in reality Omicron could easily kill a lot more people than Delta did. Because the increased spread could be more than enough to cancel out the reduced individual risk. edit: Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, if I was making omicron in a lab I’d keep that in mind. But what the gently caress do you want us to do about it? Should we be popping bottles because this new variant that still could very easily crash the entire healthcare system will kill fewer people than a theoretical worse variant you made up in your head?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, if I was making omicron in a lab I’d keep that in mind. Yes, if you completely exclude transmissibility, less severe is better than more severe. The problem is you're using this as an argument against people saying this is OVERALL worse (i.e. when transmissibility is taken into consideration).
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:Nobody here is arguing that the existance of omicron is a net positive for the world. But it's not as bad as it could be. This is exactly the problem. All the open Biden folks are shouting “it’s mild!” And mouthing “but more transmissible” under their breath. This leads to people think somehow that everything is gonna be okay and they can do anything they want. Meanwhile cases are exploding, and we’re going to very quickly make a new variant that is even worse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:03
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Yes, if you completely exclude transmissibility, less severe is better than more severe. I am not aware that he did that. He's only saying that there are also some good news around, while some people are absolutely convinced that such a thing is not possible and that every upcoming variant will always just become even more fatal on a personal level. We've been aware that it's more transmissible for weeks. But people were also continuously claiming that it's more severe than delta because they were just convinced that this is the natural order of things. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:I am not aware that he did that. It's only good news in comparison to a hypothetical scenario that you can compare it to solely for the purpose of making the actual bad news seem good. A massively more transmissible variant of Covid is bad news. Especially coming out now, at the height of holiday travel season, when everyone has basically given up on taking any precautions. This is bad news.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:I am not aware that he did that. Even if you are a selfish rear end in a top hat who only cares about a deadly virus on a completely personal level, this is still not good news. You have less chance of dying from a single infection, but you’re going to get reinfected much more often, increasing your overall chance of dying to Covid. Also the whole collapse of healthcare thing. We are nearing the brink of “Whoops broke my leg, put me down like a horse since we don’t have functioning hospitals. “
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:14
|
|
|
I am well aware. That still doesn't change the fact that Feigl-Ding is bending over backwards to represent Omicron as even worse than it is, because he wants to stay on brand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:14
|
|
|
I don't think anyone is saying it's bad that Omicron is less severe, or that there's strictly bad news all the time. If there are people saying that, there aren't many. It's unquestionably a great thing that Omicron appears to be less severe across several datasets at this point! I think the frustration I'm seeing is the response to the most-likely-true statement "Omicron is less severe on a case-by-case basis." Where that's used as a justification to allow further spread without public health interventions, it's bad. Public health authorities saying something like, "we're going to use the boon given to us by Omicron's reduced severity to give us breathing room as we address the extremely high rate of transmission" would be excellent. But what we have is a bunch of people in positions of power basically doing nothing because of the assumed reduction in severity, and that is not going to work out well long term because exponential growth will eventually overwhelm whatever benefit the reduced severity gives us.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I don't think anyone is saying it's bad that Omicron is less severe, or that there's strictly bad news all the time. If there are people saying that, there aren't many. It's unquestionably a great thing that Omicron appears to be less severe across several datasets at this point! I think the frustration I'm seeing is the response to the most-likely-true statement "Omicron is less severe on a case-by-case basis." Where that's used as a justification to allow further spread without public health interventions, it's bad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:17
|
|
|
nexous posted:Even if you are a selfish rear end in a top hat who only cares about a deadly virus on a completely personal level, this is still not good news. It’s still objectively good news. Hospitals would also collapse of it wasn’t true.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:20
|
|
|
Imagine a guy walking down the street punching everyone in the face. OOCC praises the man for only using half his strength instead of telling him he should stop punching people in the face. “I’m just saying it’s good news! He could be punching harder”
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:20
|
|
|
You can just say "Point taken, but I'm still concerned with..." instead of whatever this is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:31
|
|
|
nexous posted:Imagine a guy walking down the street punching everyone in the face. OOCC praises the man for only using half his strength instead of telling him he should stop punching people in the face. “I’m just saying it’s good news! He could be punching harder” I agree, why doesn't he just stop that guy? That analogy doesn't work at all. It's more like the difference between a heavy earthquake and a heavy earthquake which also causes a high tsunami. Either one sucks. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:32
|
|
|
nexous posted:Imagine a guy walking down the street punching everyone in the face. OOCC praises the man for only using half his strength instead of telling him he should stop punching people in the face. “I’m just saying it’s good news! He could be punching harder” If someone punches me I hope they punch me as softly as possible. Do you think I have some sort of stand ability to stop viruses and I’m not because I got confused by a softer punching virus? I didn’t make this thing. The spread is totally out of my control. It’s objectively good news if a disease is less likely to kill you. A quickly spreading disease? Even more important if it kills less!
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
Has anyone said "boy it sure is bad that Omicron is less severe!" or are you creating a new type of guy, and then getting angry about him?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 16:47
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Has anyone said "boy it sure is bad that Omicron is less severe!" or are you creating a new type of guy, and then getting angry about him? This guy seems to think it'd be better if omicron was more deadly because he believes then people would take in more serious. Gripweed posted:No, but people do seem happy that Omicron is more mild. Which is good against a theoretical worse variant that doesn't exist yet. But is bad in reality because it means that people are taking more risks under the assumption that "it's mild" when in reality Omicron could easily kill a lot more people than Delta did. Because the increased spread could be more than enough to cancel out the reduced individual risk.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
I understand the 3x more transmissable but 1/3rd the severity doesn't cancel out but is there any real world jurisdictions that are getting clobbered with deaths and hospitalizations worse the Delta? South Africa has been in the grip of omicron for a month now and I don't hear any catastrophic wave of deaths occurring. No mention of triage for life vs death like the insanity when the OG wave it. Many stories where people find out they have Covid after going to hospitals for unrelated reasons. News coming out has been uniformly good. Same thing here in Ontario. 2nd week of Omicron (probably longer due to lack of detection). ICU numbers ticking up slightly but still well below the Delta curve despite a much higher infection rate. I keep hearing it's early, it's early we must do more PHI/lockdowns. I keep hearing/reading doomsday is coming but there is no evidence of that. Also, at some point, don't we just have to start accepting casualties as the norm like we do the flu every year? Or are we still advocating COVID Zero initiatives which seem to be a lost cause at this point? PHIs only delay the infection curve right? So are PHIs dragging out the infection period for the population only giving more time for variants to arise? I recall the original reason for lockdown in 2020 was to flatten the curve, don't overwhelm the healthcare system. If the system is holding up even with mass infection from omicron, why more PHIs?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Hospital and ICU admissions are lagging indicators, sometimes up to two weeks. Two weeks ago, Ontario was reporting 4.4% test positivity and 1400-ish new cases per day. Two weeks before that, in the range of 500. Today? 9500. So, yeah, I bet the hospitals are not in an extremely bad way yet. But, given the huge growth in cases (a doubling time of under a week), we better be really goddamn sure that omicron is going to be mild before we bet the farm on it. Is it good that it appears to be less severe? Yes, of course it is! Is that reduction in severity going to be enough to counteract a 5-day doubling time? I guess we'll see over the next month. It's not a bet I'm enjoying watching our leaders make on our behalf, and that's before we address the possible issues created by HCWs getting infected and having to isolate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
Denmark - 24 December Cases dropped the second day in a row in Denmark across the board of vaccination status. pre:Denmark Covid Cases ------------------------------------ Dec 24 11,229 new cases, 527 reinfections, 134 new hospitalizations (509 total, -32), 74 ICU (+2), 39 vent (+1), 14 dead Dec 23 12,487 new cases, 613 reinfections, 158 new hospitalizations (541 total, +17), 72 ICU (+6), 38 vent (+1), 15 dead Dec 22 13,386 new cases, 531 reinfections, 126 new hospitalization (524 total, -1), 66 ICU (-1), 37 vent(+2), 14 dead Dec 21 13,558 new cases, 501 reinfections, 121 new hospitalization (526 total, -27), 67 ICU (+1), 35 vent(+2) , 17 dead Dec 20 10,082 (553 hospitalized) Dec 19 8,212 Dec 18 8,594 Dec 17 11,194 Dec 16 9,999 Dec 15 8,773 pre:Unvaccinated Partial Full Unvaccinated Partial Full 24 DEC New cases: 184.1 173.0 182.1 Hospitalizations: 34.5 14.9 7.1 23 DEC New cases: 237.1 202.6 197.9 Hospitalizations: 35.4 16.2 7.5 22 DEC New cases: 257.1 198.1 211.7 Hospitalizations: 34.2 15.3 7.3 21 DEC New cases: 270.1 226.2 207.8 Hospitalizations: 32.9 14.3 7.5 LAck of time to update whole table, but Omicron just crept over 60% today. pre:20-dec-21 59,04 19-dec-21 54,24 18-dec-21 47,90 17-dec-21 48,63 16-dec-21 45,16 15-dec-21 45,71 14-dec-21 37,97 13-dec-21 28,44 12-dec-21 22,06 11-dec-21 16,51 10-dec-21 12,79 09-dec-21 11,16 08-dec-21 10,17 07-dec-21 7,21 06-dec-21 4,87 05-dec-21 3,27 04-dec-21 2,12 03-dec-21 1,49 02-dec-21 1,40 01-dec-21 1,78 Sources: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/242ec2acc014456295189631586f1d26 https://covid19.ssi.dk/virusvarianter/delta-pcr [/quote]
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This guy seems to think it'd be better if omicron was more deadly because he believes then people would take in more serious. The issue with this is you're viewing the severity of the virus and the response to the virus as independent events, when the former clearly is influencing the latter. Like I said before: I think it's objectively a good thing, in isolation, that the virus is less severe. Every single person thinks that, no one wants a more severe virus. What we're saying is that "the virus is less severe" is a message which leads to poor decisions on an individual and societal level, which could make the virus, in effect, more harmful even if each case is less likely to be severe. It's classic risk compensation and we should manage it with that in mind: we should be thrilled for reduced severity, and we shouldn't use it as an excuse to allow uncontrolled exponential growth at an absurd rate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 17:56
|
|
|
Two years and I've finally been verifiably exposed to covid. I haven't tested positive but I've been in close contact to someone who is positive. For like 3-4 days. Good thing I have a proud stack of tests for the shop and office. But this is spooky poo poo. The entire staff is vaccinated 2x at least with most of us having or having appointments for boosters. The person who has covid was in my office yesterday coughing I'm like yo. Get a loving test and stay outside until you see results. He's positive. When asked why the gently caress he didn't rest earlier the response was "direct manager didn't want to use up test"... 3 days ago.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 18:19
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Hospital and ICU admissions are lagging indicators, sometimes up to two weeks. I feel like these lag numbers people claim just keep getting pulled out of thin air to just be whatever number is convenient. Looking at cases and deaths in Ontario the most clearly defined peak DEATHS is january 18th. The peak cases that matches it is January 10th. It looks similar on each of the others peaks as well. There is no world that hospitalizations in ontario now lag 2 weeks. Are people going in the hospital 6 days after they die?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This guy seems to think it'd be better if omicron was more deadly because he believes then people would take in more serious. You are being absurd.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
Omicron being less deadly is good news and lol if you’re getting mad at or feeling the need to caveat that statement.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 18:55
|
|
|
A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Omicron being less deadly is good news and lol if you’re getting mad at or feeling the need to caveat that statement. It has a good shot at killing more people despite being less deadly. Omicron is bad, it's bad that this new variant exists, it's bad news. I know you guys see yourselves as rivals to the other thread and since they think Omicron is bad you feel the need to find some kind of silver lining to it. But to insist that we should be happy that an individual persons chance of dying of Covid may go down while the overall death rate may significantly go up is a bizarre exercise in pigheaded pollyannaism (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:I know you guys see yourselves as rivals to the other thread and since they think Omicron is bad you feel the need to find some kind of silver lining to it. This is weird and if that's a belief shared by a bunch of people it explains a lot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
I like the idea that the only reason someone could like a disease being less deadly is a rivalry with cspam
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:28
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:It has a good shot at killing more people despite being less deadly. Delta would get to those people eventually anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:32
|
|
|
"UGG! you guy have to find a silver lining in everything! You guys even think being less likely to die from covid is a GOOD THING! ugg, cspam will be hearing about this one!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:32
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I like the idea that the only reason someone could like a disease being less deadly is a rivalry with cspam "Less deadly" on an individual basis but potentially significantly more deadly in terms of number of people made dead is not something to like. You should not like Omicron, because Omicron has a good shot at killing a lot of people. gay picnic defence posted:Delta would get to those people eventually anyway. Have you completely forgotten the theory behind flattening the curve already? Because right now Omicron seems to be flattening the curve in the wrong direction
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:"Less deadly" on an individual basis but potentially significantly more deadly in terms of number of people made dead is not something to like. You should not like Omicron, because Omicron has a good shot at killing a lot of people. I love omicron and am going to marry it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
Is it confirmed that Omicron is individually less deadly than Delta per se? We know it's causing a lot of mild breakthrough infections and seems to be milder in the vaccinated than Delta was in the unvaccinated for instance, but the vaxxed and boosted who are getting mild Omicron infections en masse would simply never have been infected at all with prior variants. We know Omicron is the dominant variant in much of the US at this point and anecdotally if you look at hcw forums there's still plenty of people talking about being overwhelmed with severe unvaxxed cases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:45
|
|
|
A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Omicron being less deadly is good news and lol if you’re getting mad at or feeling the need to caveat that statement. Not if the severity reduction is minor and the transmission increase is significant. This is basic math. the overall fatalities will probably be higher. why are so many people still fatally optimistic after we've seen the "doomers" be much closer to the mark for 2 straight years? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:04
|
|
|
I mean I'm posting actual daily stats from Denmark. You could draw your own conclusions or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
Our country giving up on controlling a disease as contagious as the measles, which breaks through vaccines and gives up to 20% of survivors long term organ damage is, in fact, really loving bad. The people echoing "it's less deadly!" are taking a dangerously myopic view of the pandemic, I think. Ignoring millions of maimed survivors and focusing on the death count to downplay covid is a 2020 chud move and it's shocking to see it so prevalent here these days. edit: I might have come off like an rear end in a top hat here, so I'll clarify that I genuinely think the people here who focus on low death counts to inform their behaviors and policy opinions do so because they don't have any loved ones who were permanently hosed up by "mild" covid cases. I don't think y'all are malicious, but I bet seeing someone close to you survive covid but have their life ruined by it MIGHT change your opinion on the ol' Omicron. smoobles fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:14
|
|
