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Bottom Liner posted:With little other gaming experience? I wouldn't recommend it. There are 37 different tiles with unique rules and icons and interactions. Firmly middle weight euro IMO. That'd be a big step up from something like Carcassonne while feeling/looking like a similar type of game. Seconded. The core game is pretty simple and easy for non-gamers to pick up but the special ability tiles are hell to figure out if you don't have an experienced player there teaching.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:40
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Carillon posted:I think I'm with you more than your partner. It's such an odd game that I want to like but keep falling short on it. I've played more than a few games on BGA just trying to see if with familiarity I was able to overcome my hesitations and get into it. But yeah not so much, idk. I think the biggest issue I have with Arnak is the cognitive dissonance between what the game wants you to do to win and what I think I should be doing to have fun. The research track is KING (or QUEEN) in the game. You will not win if you do not progress up the research track. However, the theme is telling me I want to go out and have fun adventures exploring, killing guardians, and getting loot. My first impulse is to pour the resources I get from doing that back into more adventures. I will lose if I focus on this. I need to divert a significant amount of the resources into the research track (which, in fairness, will give me some small resource return alongside victory points) if I want to win. This is not a point-salad Euro. This is a lot like Teotihuacan (another game I like, but have issues with) in that, at least in base, you can play a game that does its best to score points through alternative means that aren't building the Great Pyramid, but you will more likely than not lose. I've played a dozen or so games of Arnak and I've never lost one where I topped the research track first (and correctly saved resources for the topmost limited VP token there). The problem is that these games don't, imo, broadcast cleanly enough where they want you to go and seem to hint that you CAN win with a Guardians/Market card victory (or a Masks/Worship victory for Teo). And in some cases, you can, but you are ice skating uphill when you're doing that. And in both games, I feel a sense of wonder that I want to explore and get disappointed when I'm reminded that I need to return to a central scoring conceit in a truly competitive game, especially, frankly, for a central scoring conceit that is pretty dull in Arnak. I'm hoping the Expedition Leaders expansion changes that up a bit and, alongside the async player types, opens up the scoring so that I can satisfy BOTH the thematic and the number-crunching competitor within me. But until then, Arnak is a play online but not own sort of game for me.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:56
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Admiralty Flag posted:I just wanted to recognize the thought and effort you put into this post. The first question that has to be answered is, "What is/are the point/s of the list?" and your answer rings true for one very reasonable answer to that question. I’d argue that new people still like games based on theme. Like a bicycle race in Flamme Rouge is more interesting to some than a Camel Race. Or collecting gems instead of spice trading. I wouldn’t think Anachrony is nearly as interesting if it was like.. boats in the 1600s Mediterranean, or if Champions of Midgard was rolling to get enough plastic for a road cone factory. Just saying “this is a lightweight game” is worthless to figure out if someone will like the actual game. If someone came up and asked what you were playing, you’d describe it in theme, not in its weight. A one-sentence description of each game would go a long way.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:14
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Crackbone posted:Although I guess it doesn't matter since the OP never gets read. In general I think SA OPs are mostly read by people who are interested in a topic enough to look into it, but might not post in the thread. I know for a variety of things I've looked for threads here for introduction/resources, then usually skim the last week of pages for what the conversation is like/if my question is common enough to have been answered recently. So I think making it extremely pertinent to new people to the hobby via player counts/complexity/price organization is a priority. Deeper hobbyist stuff like 18xx, or big box Gloomhaven, or 4 seasons of legacy games should be in some post on the front page just so it can get pointed to easily enough when people want to ask general questions. Collecting all the silly board game memes that have been generated or spinoff threads like the drafts should also get collected somewhere on page 1 IMO, because those are just fun Not specifically posting at you, Crackbone, just using your post to go off of
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Dec 25, 2021 00:16
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Fellis posted:Not specifically at you, but in general I think SA OPs are mostly read by people who are interested in a topic enough to look into it, but might not post in the thread. I know for a variety of things I've looked for threads here for introduction/resources, then usually skim the last week of pages for what the conversation is like/if my question is common enough to have been answered recently. So I think making it extremely pertinent to new people to the hobby via player counts/complexity/price organization is a priority. Deeper hobbyist stuff like 18xx, or big box Gloomhaven, or 4 seasons of legacy games should be in some post on the front page just so it can get pointed to easily enough when people want to ask general questions. Collecting all the silly board game memes that have been generated or spinoff threads like the drafts should also get collected somewhere on page 1 IMO, because those are just fun That’s what we find in the Management thread. There’s a TON of questions that would be asked if they weren’t in the OP, especially regarding video content creators, which by the way we should be including in our OP.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:17
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Mayveena posted:That’s what we find in the Management thread. There’s a TON of questions that would be asked if they weren’t in the OP, especially regarding video content creators, which by the way we should be including in our OP. Management?
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Dec 25, 2021 00:26
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CitizenKeen posted:Management? Like resource or hand management? I can't imagine there being enough content for a whole thread on just those mechanics
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Dec 25, 2021 00:28
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PRADA SLUT posted:Just saying “this is a lightweight game” is worthless to figure out if someone will like the actual game. Did you actually read the post? We're talking about the OP, not theorizing about why people like games, the importance of thematic integration, or some concept of measuring different ways to find someone the perfect game for them. For the OP, the idea is: Magnetic North posted:They are a place where anyone can start and be reasonably well assured that they won't be in over their heads. Also, by having them by in such an arrangement, someone who has come into board games through something like Tabletop or other gaming content on their own and might have played their first and second step games can then see the next step. It serves everyone to arrange it this way. The point is that games in the games in the OP are for (virtually) anyone. Broadly popular, stood the test of time, well liked, hopefully in print. Most importantly, they're separated by their complexity because that remains the most sensible and high-level angle to organize by because we don't know where on someone's board game journey someone else is. Is it possible that someone won't like it? Sure. But we're playing the percentages, which is all we can expect out of a static string of text. Just to fully put any confusion to bed, let's consider at the opposite: Lets say we include cycling games in the OP. Well, is the OP going to contain listings for every possible variation on theme and mechanism? Games set in Japan? Drafting games? Games about stocks and finance? Worker placement games? Games about the world of high fashion and dressmaking? Also, what about games that might be recommended that fit no easily understood theme, like Magic Maze, where you're adventurers time-traveled into a modern shopping mall and are also cursed? This is not viable for an OP which is what we're talking about regardless if you weren't. If someone wants to know if there is a cycling board game, they can ask in the thread or just take their chances googling it. They post "Gee willikers, my father in law loves cycling, and I love board games. How do I bridge these two worlds?" and you can slide in and say, "Well, let me tell you about this little number called Flamme Rouge." On the other hand, If someone wanders in, wide-eyed, and wants to know what board games the thread consensus generally considers to be good and worth your money. that is a service that the OP can provide. (For the record, Flamme Rouge is probably both good and about cycling. I have not played it. I'd buy it but one of my main light game players in my group dislikes 'deckbuilding'.)
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Dec 25, 2021 00:39
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Magnetic North posted:Did you actually read the post? We're talking about the OP, not theorizing about why people like games, the importance of thematic integration, or some concept of measuring different ways to find someone the perfect game for them. For the OP, the idea is: I’m not suggesting you break down every possible theme, just a handful of big splits that new people would already understand, (like card games, puzzle games, dice games, etc), and add a descriptor about the theme or “one sentence information” about what the game is. Everdell is a game about collecting cards to build an animal kingdom, not “tableau builder worker placement with turn stretching and triggered engine mechanics set in a fantasy world”. For games that don’t match, just an etc/unsorted. Magic Maze is “escape a cursed mall together without talking”. The point isn’t to name every possible taxonomy, just to hitch a ride on pre-established ideas people already understand. People understand the difference between card games and dice games, even if you can break down each of those as granular as you want. King of Tokyo is primarily a dice game (as that’s the principle action that dictates gameplay flow), even though it has elements of different genres. E: you could still break it by weight and then add a single-word genre mechanic, and a theme description, the hierarchy is irrelevant. PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 00:46
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CitizenKeen posted:Management? management sims, the video game genre
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Dec 25, 2021 00:46
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Snooze Cruise posted:management sims, the video game genre Yes like Minecraft and Cities Skylines.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:54
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Slimy Hog posted:Like resource or hand management? I can't imagine there being enough content for a whole thread on just those mechanics Nope there wouldn’t be, not to mention that I don’t even like those games much 😀
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Dec 25, 2021 00:55
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Crackbone posted:My only recommendation for new thread is 100 point font message saying “Don’t back Kickstarter Games” I'll second this.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:10
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Merry Christmas boardgoons. You've brought me a lot of joy this year, here's to another 12 months and hopefully getting to play with more people in person. P.S. please don't devolve into poo poo posting about things endlessly, this thread can be more/better than that.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:17
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Snooze Cruise posted:management sims, the video game genre I legit like those video games
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Dec 25, 2021 01:22
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Magnetic North posted:
I wouldn't consider Flamme Rouge a deck builder, more like a management game (the way I define it not Mayveena 😆)
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Dec 25, 2021 01:22
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Magnetic North posted:The point is that games in the games in the OP are for (virtually) anyone. Broadly popular, stood the test of time, well liked, hopefully in print. You can just say Terraforming Mars.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:30
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Toshimo posted:You can just say Terraforming Mars. Terraforming Mars is everything that's bad about boardgames.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:38
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Magic maze is clearly a reverse Isekai game I mean come on 
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Dec 25, 2021 01:41
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could you guys not pick fights with each other until after christmas please
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Dec 25, 2021 02:52
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Azran posted:Magic maze is clearly a reverse Isekai game I mean come on Every game you play is an isekai makes u think
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Dec 25, 2021 03:19
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Slimy Hog posted:I wouldn't consider Flamme Rouge a deck builder, more like a management game (the way I define it not Mayveena 😆) Flamme rouge is a deck destruction game
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Dec 25, 2021 04:06
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Barry Shitpeas posted:Flamme rouge is a deck destruction game It’s a deck builder with one option!
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Dec 25, 2021 04:42
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Memnaelar posted:I think the biggest issue I have with Arnak is the cognitive dissonance between what the game wants you to do to win and what I think I should be doing to have fun. Those are all really good points! Also too I think is that you don't really shuffle or move through your deck enough to counteract bad varience. Unlike say something like Dominion where you duffle a bunch and can exile a lot of cards, I haven't found you get all that much chance to do that. It's an interesting system but I wish it wasn't possible to get a bunch of turns in a row with really bad cards, or at least better ways to mitigate that.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:49
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The real shame of board gaming is that the true evergreen noob friendly games, through the desert and samurai, are always OOS aside from the once in every 5 years reprint. At least dominion seems to always be in print, but I've circled around to recommending TTD and samurai as my de facto good low complexity games that scale with your experience.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:55
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Flame Rouge is a game of Dominion where if you don't draw the right amount of money, you're forced to buy a card, also there's only one card to buy and it's Village.
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Dec 25, 2021 07:10
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Merry Christmas, hope you don’t get any trash
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Dec 25, 2021 07:26
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Morpheus posted:Flame Rouge is a game of Dominion where if you don't draw the right amount of money, you're forced to buy a card, also there's only one card to buy and it's Village. but when your opponents play a gold it makes your copper a silver!
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Dec 25, 2021 07:34
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Crackbone posted:My only recommendation for new thread is 100 point font message saying “Don’t back Kickstarter Games” Why not? I'm not planning to or anything, I've just only started reading this thread again recently so I'm curious.
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Dec 25, 2021 08:01
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Kalko posted:Why not? I'm not planning to or anything, I've just only started reading this thread again recently so I'm curious. It’s not a big deal. Kickstarter games are often good, they have about the same average quality as traditionally-funded games. But why back? They also get sold at regular stores. Realistically, your support is not going to make or break a game, so it makes more sense to hang back and wait til there are reviews and impressions of the actual game out there, instead of going by your gut and hoping they don’t gently caress up the balance. You’re risking your money for a very small benefit, getting the game a few weeks early. This has become a lot more apparent in the pandemic, when a few weeks don’t make much difference to my board-gaming. It’s like telling people not to buy Steam games unless they plan to play within the next 6 months, it’s just being careful worth your money.
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Dec 25, 2021 08:16
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Kalko posted:Why not? I'm not planning to or anything, I've just only started reading this thread again recently so I'm curious. It's really easy to go overboard on Kickstarters, especially for people who are new to the hobby/new to crowdfunding. The safest option is to avoid it until you know what is available and know what you like.
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Dec 25, 2021 08:31
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Kalko posted:Why not? I'm not planning to or anything, I've just only started reading this thread again recently so I'm curious. I back for a discount on the game that I would probably buy anyway, and also for some smaller games that might not get released otherwise. You run the risk of the game sucking, but I haven't hit a bad game yet. Once you figure out what you like it’s easier to navigate the Kickstarter options. I buy everything from Mindclash, for instance. Also, like 10% of my games make it on time, 50% are six months delayed, 40% are longer. I have game content that's four years past schedule right now, and that's not unheard of. Only back games you're okay playing "whenever" PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 08:41
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Might play the Boss Babe board game later today. Might not. A world brimming with choices awaits me. I will think about doing them and then probably just sleep instead. Gotta learn how to play board games in my dreams.
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Dec 25, 2021 09:25
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Kalko posted:Why not? I'm not planning to or anything, I've just only started reading this thread again recently so I'm curious. A lot of successful kickstarters are over-hyped over-plasticed under-baked trash. For instance, if someone suggests you check out a game and you see the publisher is Steamforged or Awakened Realms, you need to be extra cautious, especially because someone might have spent $300 on something that actually sucks and is trying to convince themselves they didn't waist their money. The main rule for backing Kickstarter board games (besides "don't") is "No Rules? No Pledge!"
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Dec 25, 2021 11:26
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PRADA SLUT posted:I back for a discount on the game that I would probably buy anyway, and also for some smaller games that might not get released otherwise. You run the risk of the game sucking, but I haven't hit a bad game yet. Once you figure out what you like it’s easier to navigate the Kickstarter options. I buy everything from Mindclash, for instance. I'm in agreement with most of this, but only an idiot backs on Kickstarter for a discount. Once shipping on an individual game is accounted for you're often lucky to get it at what you'd pay at retail. And the games that offer actual discounts have a higher risk of not fulfilling. I've not been stung yet, but there's always a risk.
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Dec 25, 2021 12:48
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Best of all is when a KS game releases with 5 expansions at the same time. You just know they definitely didn't skimp out on playtesting, especially taking feedback from the base game to make the expansions better.
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Dec 25, 2021 12:56
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I am backing 89 so that one day publishers might come to their senses about good graphics on train games so we can get these 
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Dec 25, 2021 14:09
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PRADA SLUT posted:It’s a deck builder with one option! I think it's interesting that it takes two concepts that might be unintuitive if you've never played a deckbuilder before - that adding cards can be bad and removing cards can be good - and makes them obvious by only adding bad cards and forcing you to remove cards Plus there's a lesson about what can happen if you take an early lead in a game!
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Dec 25, 2021 15:00
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I got Meadow last night and have already played it 3 times. The game is chill as hell and fun.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:31
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Llyranor posted:Best of all is when a KS game releases with 5 expansions at the same time. You just know they definitely didn't skimp out on playtesting, especially taking feedback from the base game to make the expansions better. I went all-in on ISS Vanguard but delayed my delivery to have everything show up at once. I’m hoping since they staggered the “expansion” content release 3 months, they would have time to do all the playtesting/fixes, like they did with Etherfields. Awaken Realms don’t screw me now.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:22
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