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How are u posted:Extremely rude things to say about the U.S.S.R.'s successor state. If only they had their economy liberalized and had leadership aligned with Western liberals. That would make it better there. (Touches earpiece) I'm receiving some disturbing new information about the 90s
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Dec 26, 2021 18:23
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Best Friends posted:If only they had their economy liberalized and had leadership aligned with Western liberals. That would make it better there. can you imagine how much better off russia would be with a leader wholly aligned toward US interests
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Dec 26, 2021 18:33
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i say swears online posted:can you imagine how much better off russia would be with a leader wholly aligned toward US interests Did you get hit with the CIA bluepill gun
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Dec 26, 2021 18:35
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havin' a sin drone
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Dec 26, 2021 18:38
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If only Russia would be ruled by independent national interests and would be free to develop internally with major capital in the state's hands *2000-2021 calls* hello oh my god
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Dec 26, 2021 18:47
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I feel like Russia could be a very economically powerful country if it wasn't ruled by scumbags? I mean I think it has a lot of natural resources right? Lots of oil and gas etc. And a strong industrial base? I mean if it was used for something other than making military weapons. And it's a truly massive country so I'm sure that's good for something. I don't know I could be totally wrong but I feel like Russia could be in one of the top economic spots in the world if the government wasn't basically the Mafia.
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Dec 26, 2021 18:55
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Russia with less low-level corruption and a more technocratic government would be a sight to behold, yes. It’s not a land that’s lacking in all that much.
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Dec 26, 2021 19:05
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Compare Belarus to the Baltic republics. That's what the difference is. Russia has oil and gas, but beyond that their economy is as undeveloped as Belarus. e: this is all the fault of USA and/or Jewish cabal.
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Dec 26, 2021 19:17
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20 years after WW2 the USSR was winning the space race and going through a major housing project to provide apartments to people 20 years after the 90s ended Putin raised the minimum wage by 12 eur to 166 eur Political will matters a lot and the russian elite deserves lampposts
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Dec 26, 2021 19:21
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Nenonen posted:e: this is all the fault of USA and/or Jewish cabal. are you comparing HW bush encouraging the kleptocracy in the early 90s to the protocols of the elders of zion
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Dec 26, 2021 19:24
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Somaen posted:If only Russia would be ruled by independent national interests and would be free to develop internally with major capital in the state's hands So you're saying Western liberalization and "pro democracy" movements will support corrupt leaders who don't actually care at all about democracy, and who eventually hand power off to someone who won't be Western friendly? If that were truly the case, I'd expect the biggest fans of liberalization movements to learn something, unless "supporting democracy" was never the actual goal.
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Dec 26, 2021 19:31
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Russia with less low-level corruption and a more technocratic government would be a sight to behold, yes. Please no gay propaganda itt
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Dec 26, 2021 19:36
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Best Friends posted:So you're saying Western liberalization and "pro democracy" movements will support corrupt leaders who don't actually care at all about democracy, and who eventually hand power off to someone who won't be Western friendly? If that were truly the case, I'd expect the biggest fans of liberalization movements to learn something, unless "supporting democracy" was never the actual goal. Do you have any skin in the situation or are you here to yanksplain poo poo? Definitely up for learning something provided that you have insights into the historic period paying proper respect to the agency of the countries in question and not waiting for a chance to self-fellate on the "America is Bad" topic Somaen fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 26, 2021 |
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Dec 26, 2021 19:43
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Somaen posted:Do you have any skin in the situation or are you here to yanksplain poo poo? tbf Russia having no agency ever is extremely on brand for the thread
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Dec 26, 2021 19:58
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Plucky lil putin.
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Dec 26, 2021 20:22
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Somaen posted:Do you have any skin in the situation or are you here to yanksplain poo poo?
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Dec 26, 2021 20:22
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Arzachel posted:tbf Russia having no agency ever is extremely on brand for the thread Russian oligarchs would be less thieving if only not for the dastardly HW encouraging them! (because Soviet Union, of course, had no corruption...)
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Dec 26, 2021 21:02
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Sometimes I don't get this level of propaganda. It makes zero sense to even the stupidest observers. Joint Forces Operation: 1 ceasefire violation yesterday
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Dec 26, 2021 23:04
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no no no, oligarchs just spontaneously materialised all over russia one day in 1992. clearly some nefarious plot by americans. maybe some DARPA superweapon nothing to do with disastrous economic policies of the late USSR, nothing to do with the existence of shadow economy that rivalled the official one in size and ran on a "who knows who" basis and was fertile grounds for all sorts of criminal shenanigans, nothing to do with the tremendously overgrown and festering security apparatus which revelled in the opportunity to join in on the aforementioned shenanigans, building new wealth and new capital and new power one thermorectal cryptoanalysis session at a time
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Dec 26, 2021 23:05
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It’s been a really long time since I’ve last seen that Lurkmore reference in the wild. That said, I’m fairly certain you and OddObserver are in agreement, unless I’m losing my way in this onion of ironic sarcasm.
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Dec 26, 2021 23:10
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It’s been a really long time since I’ve last seen that Lurkmore reference in the wild. That said, I’m fairly certain you and OddObserver are in agreement, unless I’m losing my way in this onion of ironic sarcasm. i mean, it's a reference to a very real and very horrible thing first and foremost (irl torture tends to be much less imaginative and much more banal than how it gets presented in the media, which makes it that much more revolting) and yeah, i'm not disagreeing with OddObserver, this was more aimed at folks doing the yanksplaining
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Dec 26, 2021 23:17
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Fair enough, and yeah irl you’ll just get kicked in the kidneys instead.
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Dec 26, 2021 23:22
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I don't think anyone thinks America invented corruption in Russia. I do think that the posters like how are u who are huge fans of American foreign policy need to have a think about a guy like Putin was directly put in power by America's friend and ally Yeltsin.
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Dec 26, 2021 23:43
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nurmie posted:no no no, oligarchs just spontaneously materialised all over russia one day in 1992. clearly some nefarious plot by americans. maybe some DARPA superweapon yes, but we already knew stalin was right
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Dec 26, 2021 23:53
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Truga posted:yes, but we already knew stalin was right i see you're quite into overgrown, bloated, festering state security apparatuses
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Dec 27, 2021 00:40
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There was definitely a huge missed opportunity for the West to properly integrate Russia into the global community, but it's not entirely their fault. For better or worse other Eastern European countries, with the notable exception of Belarus, have come a long way towards doing so and largely posted concrete gains in quality of life and freedom of expression. As others have pointed out Russia has a large, well educated population with immense natural resources and it's a huge failure of governance and politics that has held it back. It's a conscious decision made by the Russian elite to rob their country, stoke nationalism, and try to do an imperialism on their neighbors. The only reason they're able to get away with it as the world's 11th largest economy (sandwiched between South Korea and Brazil) is because its western competitors are not playing the same game.
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Dec 27, 2021 00:47
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Am hello. Am Donetsk fighters Ukraine is wanting be Russia. Russia help us Nazi America only out for self interests and helped azovs with their plot to take over Ukraine Nazism
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Dec 27, 2021 00:47
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nurmie posted:no no no, oligarchs just spontaneously materialised all over russia one day in 1992. clearly some nefarious plot by americans. maybe some DARPA superweapon im rereading The Oligarchs and the early khodorkovsky chapters are some great poo poo. what if you just conjured money from
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Dec 27, 2021 02:13
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nurmie posted:no no no, oligarchs just spontaneously materialised all over russia one day in 1992. clearly some nefarious plot by americans. maybe some DARPA superweapon Russian oligarchs were hit with the capitalism bomb. It fizzled out their new Soviet man defenses. It's the Havana Gun on steroids we call it the Dutch rose syndrome
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Dec 27, 2021 02:19
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:im rereading The Oligarchs and the early khodorkovsky chapters are some great poo poo. what if you just conjured money from The concept of capital was such an alien, verbotten thing to late soviet citizens that when business became a thing it was the American wild west of financing all over again.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:51
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There is a book called "The Russia of Connections" or "The Russia of Who-You-Know" in Finnish about informal relationships in Russia and how you need to know people to get things done. Something quite a few Finnish companies have bashed their heads against a wall with. A friend of mine who lived on St Petersburg for several years was always talking about how things are sorta similar but sorta very different compared to Finland.
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Dec 27, 2021 08:11
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Ataxerxes posted:There is a book called "The Russia of Connections" or "The Russia of Who-You-Know" in Finnish about informal relationships in Russia and how you need to know people to get things done. Something quite a few Finnish companies have bashed their heads against a wall with. A friend of mine who lived on St Petersburg for several years was always talking about how things are sorta similar but sorta very different compared to Finland. yeah, to do something po blaty fitzpatrick has a good chapter on it
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Dec 27, 2021 08:28
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Ataxerxes posted:you need to know people to get things done This is still the case on like 90% of the planet. I'm a bit  that somebody felt surprised by it.
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Dec 27, 2021 08:54
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Doctor Malaver posted:This is still the case on like 90% of the planet. I'm a bit No no it's a secret art of the mysterious slav that russians call "korupciya" or "neformalnaya ekonomika" quote:I don't think anyone thinks America invented corruption in Russia. I do think that the posters like how are u who are huge fans of American foreign policy need to have a think about a guy like Putin was directly put in power by America's friend and ally Yeltsin. Really, because your post was addressed to me and said some wild stuff. But anyway thanks for coming to the thread to inform people who lived through the 90s that the 90s were bad. Always appreciate a big American brain explaining a thing or two about the world
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Dec 27, 2021 09:07
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Somaen posted:No no it's a secret art of the mysterious slav that russians call "korupciya" or "neformalnaya ekonomika" last time I checked americans didn't have to use blat to buy cars, just to get into university
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Dec 27, 2021 09:09
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Doctor Malaver posted:This is still the case on like 90% of the planet. I'm a bit Well, that maybe came out wrong, it's not like it isn't much the same in IT careers, for example. It's that just there was enough of a demand for a book explaining Russian social networking in Finnish for one to get made. And it is something I find interesting, since Russia is so close to Finland.
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Dec 27, 2021 09:11
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FishBulbia posted:last time I checked americans didn't have to use blat to buy cars, just to get into university Is this the mysterious American art that russians call being "dolboeb"
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Dec 27, 2021 09:48
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Corruption was always a thing in Russia. A topic for a lot of writers in pre-USSR Russia. Bureaucrats and clergy had a reputation for being corrupt by default. This might be propaganda by the USSR censorship though, but I tend to believe it.
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Dec 27, 2021 10:38
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Ataxerxes posted:And it is something I find interesting, since Russia is so close to Finland. I suppose nothing has really changed but in the good old days the chain of relations began with Finnish politicians and diplomats who would use their connections to sell sewing machines or ice breakers and maybe buy a few tanks in exchange. Toward the end Soviet Union was a great trade partner, too bad they couldn't pay their tab.
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Dec 27, 2021 10:55
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A huge centralised totalitarian state with arbitrary application of the law and no way to change the government forces people to get by through favours, buttering up the bureaucrat you're dealing with, paying off the cop to not put you in prison, paying the overworked doctor to actually treat you, etc and this trickles down to every nook and cranny of society (people smarter than me probably wrote books on this) This is why current democratic movements to make Russia a functional fair state focus on returning to a rule of law starting with exposing and demanding justice for corruption
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Dec 27, 2021 11:05
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