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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

FZeroRacer posted:

it generally feels pretty bad to learn that the better you get at a job the more obnoxiously clunky it becomes, OP.

Yeah, I do get it. Thing is the problem with Gunbreaker that creates those problems is pretty much its core design. I don't know if there's a way to fix it that wouldn't make it less fun for me, which is unfortunate because I sorta know that might have to happen at some point. There are minor fixes like extending No Mercy's duration that would help but the actual problem is Continuation and no amount of number, cooldown, or buff duration tweaks can really fix that.

At a casual level like I play it's a blast, but I can understand that it's sort of a nightmare to play if you want to optimize it, and not in a way that most people are going to find fun or even worth it.

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Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

I like getting to shoot lasers more often, my only disappointment is that the lvl 90 skill is a buff I'm never going to learn fights enough to use effectively

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

From looking at her tweets she's also pretty annoyed that she really really liked media tour BRD and then Squenix managed to change it enough between then and 6.0 launch to make her dislike it, which yeah I can get why she's pretty mad over that. I think it's reasonable to listen to savage/ultimate raider complaints along with the casual crowd.

Gruckles
Mar 11, 2013

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

How is that...faster? The crystal do so much damage and also die so loving fast already.

It's intendedly slower. I've also seen some people complaining about getting kicked from farm groups because they used the LB3 when the leader wanted the fight to last longer so their parse would be better. for some reason.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Gruckles posted:

It's intendedly slower. I've also seen some people complaining about getting kicked from farm groups because they used the LB3 when the leader wanted the fight to last longer so their parse would be better. for some reason.

But if you do more damage your parse go up and the fight over faster. How would this pad anything?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

But if you do more damage your parse go up and the fight over faster. How would this pad anything?

I never bothered with this strategy because I think parsing as anything other than a gauge for self improvement is stupid, but I guess aoeing the adds for an extra few minutes does make a difference as far as the parse is concerned since it's pretty common, or at least was in the first two weeks.

Ineptitude
Mar 2, 2010

Heed my words and become a master of the Heart (of Thorns).
I find those little furballs on the moon annoying, especially that «pudding zombie walk» at the end of all those epic cutscenes that concluded Elpis and the Garlemald monster invasion. That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.
Am i just being the grinch?

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


I'm not a fan of BRD at the moment either. Like, the play changes are largely overall positive, but somehow they make things feel worse for me. I feel like dungeon trash is marginally more interesting now that since you don't need dots ticking for your songs and they give you stickers, it feels better to have them playing through trash. Except it feels bad because you have one excellent song for this, one okay song, and one song that gives focused damage which feels really useless in most aoe contexts.

The de-pairing of song ticks from the dots also sort of feels bad because now the gameplay is entirely separate. You're performing upkeep on the dots and none of your abilities interact with them being on the target in any way any more.

I guess it is nice you don't lose your stickers when you die, since that would otherwise be needlessly punishing for everyone else if your 15 second 6% damage buff just didn't happen on top of the DPS loss from having you dead.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Ineptitude posted:

I find those little furballs on the moon annoying, especially that «pudding zombie walk» at the end of all those epic cutscenes that concluded Elpis and the Garlemald monster invasion. That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.
Am i just being the grinch?

Yes, the Lopporits are amazing. Treat them as breather material, game would have been pretty depressing without them.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Why be a bard when you can be a red mage?

Can also attack from range
Throw fire, wind, thunder, stone, flares and holy at your opponent
Gracefully leap to and from your enemy
Twirls in combat
Can resurrect the bard when they die

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Ineptitude posted:

That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.

Yeah it's supposed to. It's the same narrative reasoning as the Big Borger/take out dinner or your chit chats with Arbert in ShB. You gotta break tension, both to provide pathos and give the player room to breathe and reflect on the previous events and also to help reset for the next arc otherwise it's would just be constantly tightening build up and that cannot sustain a longer form narrative.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


Ineptitude posted:

Am i just being the grinch?

Yes. Sometimes a little levity on the side is good and doesn't actually undermine the emotional weight of the narrative unless you want it to.

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


Leal posted:

Why be a bard when you can be a red mage?

Can also attack from range
Throw fire, wind, thunder, stone, flares and holy at your opponent
Gracefully leap to and from your enemy
Twirls in combat
Can resurrect the bard when they die

:hmmyes:

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


As a non bard, I had fun leveling bard to 90 unlike bard at 80, though I also felt like I'd get carpal tunnel if I played the class for long. But I also don't care about the sort of poo poo the super high end savage players do. :shrug:

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Potsticker posted:

I'm not a fan of BRD at the moment either. Like, the play changes are largely overall positive, but somehow they make things feel worse for me. I feel like dungeon trash is marginally more interesting now that since you don't need dots ticking for your songs and they give you stickers, it feels better to have them playing through trash. Except it feels bad because you have one excellent song for this, one okay song, and one song that gives focused damage which feels really useless in most aoe contexts.

The de-pairing of song ticks from the dots also sort of feels bad because now the gameplay is entirely separate. You're performing upkeep on the dots and none of your abilities interact with them being on the target in any way any more.

I guess it is nice you don't lose your stickers when you die, since that would otherwise be needlessly punishing for everyone else if your 15 second 6% damage buff just didn't happen on top of the DPS loss from having you dead.

I will take all of this, including BRD dots working like every other dot in the game, over old BRD which was a fun game of "Will this Mage's Ballad be the one where I get 1 proc or the one where I get 4 of them back to back and can't actually use all the bloodletters in time"

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

On the subject of parse padding, not sure if it's the influx of insane people from other MMOs or what, but people getting insanely angry and screaming mad in party chat because someone LBd and it didn't let them finish their rotation and thus made their parse not as big, is now a much more common occurrence in PF than it ever was before anecdotally. Really weird. I literally saw NONE of that before EW. Did some big ex-wow streamer make a 3 hour video about how you should kill yourself if you don't parse orange or something??

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011

Leal posted:

Why be a bard when you can be a red mage?

Can also attack from range
Throw fire, wind, thunder, stone, flares and holy at your opponent
Gracefully leap off platforms and into death fields
Twirls in combat
Can resurrect the bard when they die, but won't because wasn't the summoner going to do that

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Ibram Gaunt posted:

On the subject of parse padding, not sure if it's the influx of insane people from other MMOs or what, but people getting insanely angry and screaming mad in party chat because someone LBd and it didn't let them finish their rotation and thus made their parse not as big, is now a much more common occurrence in PF than it ever was before anecdotally. Really weird. I literally saw NONE of that before EW. Did some big ex-wow streamer make a 3 hour video about how you should kill yourself if you don't parse orange or something??

Yeah this is something I've very rarely seen using PF from 2.X forward.

Cicadalek
May 8, 2006

Trite, contrived, mediocre, milquetoast, amateurish, infantile, cliche-and-gonorrhea-ridden paean to conformism, eye-fucked me, affront to humanity, war crime, should *literally* be tried for war crimes, talentless fuckfest, pedantic, listless, savagely boring, just one repulsive laugh after another

Ineptitude posted:

I find those little furballs on the moon annoying, especially that «pudding zombie walk» at the end of all those epic cutscenes that concluded Elpis and the Garlemald monster invasion. That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.
Am i just being the grinch?

I feel like that particular scene is deliberately placed to let players breathe again after a very tense sequence of events. I don't hate those particular characters, but the feeling of taking away gravity of a situation is how I feel whenever a lalafell enters what is supposed to be a serious scene, so I get where you're coming from.

Firebert
Aug 16, 2004
I can understand someone who liked Shadowbringers bard not liking current bard, because it went from a bad job to a much more fun one - same with monk

It's ok to like bad jobs, I loved Stormblood mch and drk's Dark Arts but I can also acknowledge my brain worms and that the direction they went is probably correct in the long run

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Loporrits: Puddingway is the more obvious comic relief, but I find it funnier that Sleepingway is the pilot

FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Dec 27, 2021

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Ibram Gaunt posted:

On the subject of parse padding, not sure if it's the influx of insane people from other MMOs or what, but people getting insanely angry and screaming mad in party chat because someone LBd and it didn't let them finish their rotation and thus made their parse not as big, is now a much more common occurrence in PF than it ever was before anecdotally. Really weird. I literally saw NONE of that before EW. Did some big ex-wow streamer make a 3 hour video about how you should kill yourself if you don't parse orange or something??

sounds like excellent cause/material for a report

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Firebert posted:

I can understand someone who liked Shadowbringers bard not liking current bard, because it went from a bad job to a much more fun one - same with monk

It's ok to like bad jobs, I loved Stormblood mch and drk's Dark Arts but I can also acknowledge my brain worms and that the direction they went is probably correct in the long run

I'm still of the opinion that SB MCH was perfectly fine outside of fixing flamethrower heat ticks occasionally going whack and that ShB could have just given them the cool stuff like Drill and Air Anchor without having to remake the job from the ground up :colbert:

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



The loporrits are great, always enjoyed when Livingway came in and said anything on screen cause its always fun.

Like when *minor end spoilers* She comes in after you wake up from the final battle and she's like "Oh those were cries of joy! " . Like she was full expecting you to be dead and how nonchalant she was refreshing given the gravity of the scene.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Cicadalek posted:

I feel like that particular scene is deliberately placed to let players breathe again after a very tense sequence of events. I don't hate those particular characters, but the feeling of taking away gravity of a situation is how I feel whenever a lalafell enters what is supposed to be a serious scene, so I get where you're coming from.
It's not like most of the lalafells are even that goofy, though. Krile is if anything one of the more focused and goal-oriented scions.

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


ZenMasterBullshit posted:

I will take all of this, including BRD dots working like every other dot in the game, over old BRD which was a fun game of "Will this Mage's Ballad be the one where I get 1 proc or the one where I get 4 of them back to back and can't actually use all the bloodletters in time"

I agree! The changes are definitely for the better. I'm just disappointed that I'm not really having fun with it. From what I hear the job is doing quite well, too, in terms of people who push content. I'm eternally grateful that XIV is the sort of game where it's okay to move on to other jobs if you're not feeling one.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Ineptitude posted:

I find those little furballs on the moon annoying, especially that «pudding zombie walk» at the end of all those epic cutscenes that concluded Elpis and the Garlemald monster invasion. That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.
Am i just being the grinch?

I think it's very much intentional that their scenes take away from the gravity of the situation. They're around for the breather moments between the more intense parts of the story. You spend a bunch of time with them on the moon between the really intense Garlemald and Thavnair sections, and again at the end of the Garlemald Final Days situation into Labyrinthos before you go to the final zone.

I can understand not wanting as long of a breather as those sections give you, but I think it's intentional.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Harrow posted:

Yeah, I do get it. Thing is the problem with Gunbreaker that creates those problems is pretty much its core design. I don't know if there's a way to fix it that wouldn't make it less fun for me, which is unfortunate because I sorta know that might have to happen at some point. There are minor fixes like extending No Mercy's duration that would help but the actual problem is Continuation and no amount of number, cooldown, or buff duration tweaks can really fix that.

At a casual level like I play it's a blast, but I can understand that it's sort of a nightmare to play if you want to optimize it, and not in a way that most people are going to find fun or even worth it.

Now I'm wondering if I made a mistake choosing GNB as my first tank to level to 90. That said, I don't really intend to do anything more difficult that duty finder and maybe extremes so I probably shouldn't worry about it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Ibram Gaunt posted:

On the subject of parse padding, not sure if it's the influx of insane people from other MMOs or what, but people getting insanely angry and screaming mad in party chat because someone LBd and it didn't let them finish their rotation and thus made their parse not as big, is now a much more common occurrence in PF than it ever was before anecdotally. Really weird. I literally saw NONE of that before EW. Did some big ex-wow streamer make a 3 hour video about how you should kill yourself if you don't parse orange or something??
my game theory is that a lot of wow types are getting in on the ground floor of endwalker savage and the 'xiv logs now works for endwalker!!' posts made them aware of what parses are. put those together and, well

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Cao Ni Ma posted:

The loporrits are great, always enjoyed when Livingway came in and said anything on screen cause its always fun.

Like when *minor end spoilers* She comes in after you wake up from the final battle and she's like "Oh those were cries of joy! " . Like she was full expecting you to be dead and how nonchalant she was refreshing given the gravity of the scene.

Her mostly-almost-there understanding of humanity was a constant great bit of comedy.

Second only to her scene sneaking up on you and Urianger's chat where she can't actually hear you.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Ineptitude posted:

I find those little furballs on the moon annoying, especially that «pudding zombie walk» at the end of all those epic cutscenes that concluded Elpis and the Garlemald monster invasion. That really took away a lot of the feeling of gravity of the situation.
Am i just being the grinch?

YMMV but back when I read more novels, my personal barometer for S tier works was if they made me both laugh and cry at some point. I never flat out cried during Endwalker, but I did tear up a bunch, and moments like the one you mentioned made me laugh out loud, so I'm glad they were there. Plus like others said, I think contrast is just generally a good thing to have.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Endorph posted:

my game theory is that a lot of wow types are getting in on the ground floor of endwalker savage and the 'xiv logs now works for endwalker!!' posts made them aware of what parses are. put those together and, well

Yeah parsing is an insanely huge part of WoW to the point of people doing stupid poo poo to pad their parse is expected and not unusual, even if it just helps their parse and not clearing the fight. Not a great thing to see.

Cicadalek
May 8, 2006

Trite, contrived, mediocre, milquetoast, amateurish, infantile, cliche-and-gonorrhea-ridden paean to conformism, eye-fucked me, affront to humanity, war crime, should *literally* be tried for war crimes, talentless fuckfest, pedantic, listless, savagely boring, just one repulsive laugh after another

Endorph posted:

It's not like most of the lalafells are even that goofy, though. Krile is if anything one of the more focused and goal-oriented scions.

She wears a fox-ear hoodie! Plus every lalafell has a comedic walk cycle. I know that she is not intended as comic relief but that just makes the juxtaposition even worse!

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Cicadalek posted:

She wears a fox-ear hoodie! Plus every lalafell has a comedic walk cycle. I know that she is not intended as comic relief but that just makes the juxtaposition even worse!

Someone never used JP voices to hear Yuyuhase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj6eQ7oitJo

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

The only thing I can't ever take seriously in regards to lalafel is their little toddler waddle.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Cicadalek posted:

She wears a fox-ear hoodie! Plus every lalafell has a comedic walk cycle. I know that she is not intended as comic relief but that just makes the juxtaposition even worse!

her outfit is less stupid than the outfits everyone else was wearing pre shadowbringers. i do wish they had a more normal walk cycle tho i agree on that. i play a lala and one of the only things to make me consider switching off is the walk in every time there's a cutscene.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Zinkraptor posted:

Now I'm wondering if I made a mistake choosing GNB as my first tank to level to 90. That said, I don't really intend to do anything more difficult that duty finder and maybe extremes so I probably shouldn't worry about it.

You didn't you're fine, it's true of literally every single class. If it's not true for one yet, it will be in a fight to come. Most of the time it's not really a Class Design Issue as much as it is every kit is inherently limited in what it can do and fights are all unique little dances so eventually you hit something. If they weren't limited you really wouldn't have like...class design.

And usually when they do change something big about the class design they make other new fiddly bits to bump into. See: That vtuber screaming about brd filler songs being as good as main songs.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.
Now that I have accomplished my dungeon-running goals, I return to leveling crafting, which I hate doing because it's boring and expensive but I feel obligated.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Ibram Gaunt posted:

The only thing I can't ever take seriously in regards to lalafel is their little toddler waddle.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Zinkraptor posted:

Now I'm wondering if I made a mistake choosing GNB as my first tank to level to 90. That said, I don't really intend to do anything more difficult that duty finder and maybe extremes so I probably shouldn't worry about it.
keep in mind the complaint people are leveling at gunbreaker here is that if you want to get in the top 1% of dps for the class it requires a somewhat janky and unintuitive rotation. even if you do want that the rotation can still be learned and mastered.

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