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Mr Hootington posted:Matrix 4 is good. Best movie of the year. Other than the new Dune adaptation, yes
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Dec 27, 2021 19:35
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Ferrinus posted:The machines are people who had a civil war over a lack of food. It sounds like Morpheus just ignored this, inadvisably. Agreed. Yeah I just was trying to draw the distinction that Zion did not end because of civil war. They just got wrecked by new machine faction. We’ve seen in revolutions that the machines had their own society with programs needing a specific purpose to live. And the analyst won partially with ability to make more food/money for the city than others.
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Dec 27, 2021 19:44
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The complaints about this movie are getting dumb.
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Dec 27, 2021 19:47
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remigious posted:I was expecting this movie to try to “reclaim” the redpill and/or change it to mean something that would piss chuds off. There was one line about how the pills are symbolic and don’t really represent a choice, but then later in the movie with Trinity it seems like they do matter, since the gang is anxiously asking if Trinity took the red pill?. So that was a bit disappointing. redpills make you drunk high and then the machine loses track of you and flushes you down the toilet. Now they added teeth in the toilet so you can either take a redpill and get the massage dragonfly to pick you up and fly you away or they have to make the fingers from ghost in the shell cut the wires strand by strand then plug someone else in in your place (who then takes the red pill and jumps out)
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Dec 27, 2021 20:10
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Is the whole power sharing thing at the end supposed to have happened due to the machines hacking their bodies to pieces? I'm guessing that's why Neo is canonically weaker in the film while Trinity clicks her fingers and manipulates the structural integrity of another program. Or is she just more imaginative than shield/fly man.
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Dec 27, 2021 20:24
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Kin posted:Is the whole power sharing thing at the end supposed to have happened due to the machines hacking their bodies to pieces? They both have presumably equal potential and only become a Force dyad when they are together and both free.
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Dec 27, 2021 20:31
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Force dyad you monster
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Dec 27, 2021 20:35
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I feel like there wasn't a mechanical sci-fi reason coming together made them stronger. I think it's more like they are independently powerful but like a human flirting with a robot man can make strawberries when neither could alone, a couple of enlightened ones pairing together are way more than the sum of their parts. Like they were weak because they were crushed under their lives, isolated and alone, and if they had each other they could achieve their potential. I feel like that was meant to be more just.... in regular human terms than a special mechanic for their powers.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:04
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Sedgr posted:Couple things I was wondering about...in the scene where Trinity and Neo are having coffee we get a look at what Trinity really looks like in the reflection of the table as she answers her phone call about the kids. Its a little confusing because Trinity's whole speech is about how her husband laughed at her for thinking she looks like the video game character. But she doesn't look like Trinity in the modal, or Trinity in the "video game" clips we keep seeing, or Moss herself. That's because that's what her husband and everybody else sees when they look at her. She sees herself the way we, and Neo, do.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:20
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King Vidiot posted:She sees herself the way we, and Neo, do. I'm not sure, I think only Neo can see himself so clearly. Trinity saying "And I laughed too, like it was a joke. How could it not be, right?" kinda implies that she doesn't see herself as Trinity but still feels like she should?
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Dec 27, 2021 21:31
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Matrix 4 just straight-up admits that the machines run on magic. Any pretence that this is about real-world exploitation is right out the window. The closest thing to an interesting point is the strawberry metaphor. They don’t really go into this, but the point is that Tom Anderson’s game is not an analogy for the Matrix films, but an attempt to duplicate the events of the films - from memory - in a different medium. Can it be as good??? In other words, the diegetic “Matrix Trilogy” in this film is already a remake of a long-forgotten “original” Matrix Trilogy.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:32
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Boxman posted:He had Morpheus' exact motivation from the first movies. He found The One. Neo set up the modal to establish a program that combined the traits of the people who were critical in bringing about his awakening. The character was Smith while he was still in Agent mode and once he was freed from the modal Matrix, he chose the name Morpheus because he realized he was supposed to find Neo. His aping the style and lines from the original Morpheus were just him having fun with it. With that being the case I still think he should have been a separate character, or at least made more distinctly different like how you’re framing him. The movie doesn’t do a great job of clarifying that he’s a simulacrum of Morpheus and not meant to be THE Morpheus that Neo knew.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Matrix 4 just straight-up admits that the machines run on magic. Any pretence that this is about real-world exploitation is right out the window. On the contrary, the machines learning how to squeeze more juice out of fewer people only in response to restrictions born of class struggle is straight out of chapter fifteen.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:40
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As far as Morpheus goes, there's a glimmer of something interesting that Tworpheus is a program combining both Morpheus and Smith but in the end the other dude just does the Smith stuff and he's relegated to a more minor character than the pilot.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:53
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Should have called this latest movie "THE M4TRIX"
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Dec 27, 2021 22:01
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AndyElusive posted:Should have called this latest movie "THE M4TRIX"
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Dec 27, 2021 22:07
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"runaway wife phenomenon" 
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Dec 27, 2021 22:07
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Sedgr posted:Couple things I was wondering about...in the scene where Trinity and Neo are having coffee we get a look at what Trinity really looks like in the reflection of the table as she answers her phone call about the kids. Its a little confusing because Trinity's whole speech is about how her husband laughed at her for thinking she looks like the video game character. But she doesn't look like Trinity in the modal, or Trinity in the "video game" clips we keep seeing, or Moss herself. Basically, I first interpreted her story as "my husband doesn't think I can be a cool badass like this Trinity character in your game." But then later in the film they explain that Neo and Trinity are physically masked to everyone but themselves (and possibly each other) so I think you're supposed to remember that she looks different in the reflection and think "oh, wait, the husband was laughing at her because she literally, physically looks different from the character in the video game" which kinda lets you down because that's way less conducive to an emotional story than "the husband is emotionally abusing her." Then at the end of the movie, the husband turns out to be a bot, which as far as we know are not actual humans (assisted by the fact he and the kids walk into the cafe full of SWAT members and don't act like it's weird as gently caress) so the reason he laughed at her was because it's a part of the Analyst's program to prevent her from awakening herself. Interestingly, the bit of info you introduce that it could be the same lady that's behind Neo at the award ceremony could be completely true because that could be Neo in a previous Matrix reset and the Analyst may have let Neo get too close to Trinity by having her be a co-worker. It's a cute hint if true.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:13
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M4TRIX Thread: runaway wife phenomenon
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Dec 27, 2021 22:13
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I enjoyed the movie but struggle with the fact that it's also a movie where pandemic mask-wearers are murderous sheeple
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Dec 27, 2021 22:13
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This is Lana Wachowski's Theories of Surplus Value.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:15
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The United States posted:"runaway wife phenomenon" This guy just straight up admits he's both cucked and triggered. A very bold choice.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:28
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DaveKap posted:"oh, wait, the husband was laughing at her because she literally, physically looks different from the character in the video game" It's all of these, yes BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I enjoyed the movie but struggle with the fact that it's also a movie where pandemic mask-wearers are murderous sheeple That's just Japan and interestingly the first three people shown botifying are not wearing masks. But the main bot attacking Neo is wearing a Matrix-themed mask which just goes to show ya
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Dec 27, 2021 22:30
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I loved niobes point about how war was ultimately another form of control and distraction. Without it the humans bounced back incredibly well, and now can pinch to zoom on matrix code terminals lol. The move away from hard lined old phones into moving through mirrors made for some great imagery. Regarding Weaving and Fishborne not being in the films…I bet they’re glad they dodged this bullet 
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Dec 27, 2021 22:30
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Bold of Lana Wachowski to double down on the "humans are energy resources" with "Neo and Trinity produce more power together through love" metaphor when they had the extremely more reasonable "Neo is unwittingly utilized to help code/run the Matrix" when they had him literally writing code for a Matrix game You have to respect the Wachowskis commitment to never go the obvious and uh, more elegant route, even when it makes little sense
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Dec 27, 2021 22:45
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It would have been the easiest thing in the world to drop a line like "oh btw humans mine bitcoin now" but I got the overall impression that Lana Wachowski absolutely did not give a poo poo about the matrix's implementation as an actual practical concept.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:53
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VROOM VROOM posted:It's all of these, yes And to be clear, I don't think that's what happened here. I don't think it's all of those, as you suggest, mainly because the husband being a bot cancels out laughing at her for looking different. The bot knows who she is. Edit: Y'know there is something here that nobody's touching on (probably because it's unimportant) which is that the machines are apparently now able to construct false memories for their copper tops. Originally, Neo grew up in the megacity working for some cubicle tech company but now he's the #1 game developer living in San Francisco. There's some blank space in there to fill up, right? Makes me wonder what Trinity was like before she was awakened and if it was ever on a path to getting married and having kids. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 22:54
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Mike N Eich posted:Bold of Lana Wachowski to double down on the "humans are energy resources" with "Neo and Trinity produce more power together through love" metaphor when they had the extremely more reasonable "Neo is unwittingly utilized to help code/run the Matrix" when they had him literally writing code for a Matrix game This but unironically. The power of love beating out systems of control is way more rad than some explanation about the specific construction of the matrix. Its like when Speed was able to restart the mach 5. Sure they could have had him know to drop it directly into 3rd to bypass the gigawatt adjudicator or whatever the gently caress because he's good at cars, but its a better story because he listened to his car.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:04
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Anyway this was billed as the Gremlins 2 of Matrix movies and it wasn't, at all. Bummer. This is entirely accurate, thank you.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:06
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Mike N Eich posted:Bold of Lana Wachowski to double down on the "humans are energy resources" with "Neo and Trinity produce more power together through love" metaphor when they had the extremely more reasonable "Neo is unwittingly utilized to help code/run the Matrix" when they had him literally writing code for a Matrix game The matrix 4 is really good at make time day dream about what I would have liked in a Matrix 4. Neo being the future architect, and not wanting to leave because it would mean leaving Trinity, is an angle I think would work well. That story wouldn’t give you a happy ending where they end up together though.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:17
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:I love how Neo cucks Chad. There's a Universe where this solitary comment becomes unstuck in time and presents itself to someone who has just seen the first movie. The unnecessary return of something we had left behind long ago. For value.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:19
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Mike N Eich posted:Bold of Lana Wachowski to double down on the "humans are energy resources" with "Neo and Trinity produce more power together through love" metaphor when they had the extremely more reasonable "Neo is unwittingly utilized to help code/run the Matrix" when they had him literally writing code for a Matrix game Mopheus suggests as much by implying Neo was helping the machines. It's hinted at but Bugs shuts him down to focus on extracting Neo.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:21
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It's canon in this movie that interpreting the Matrix through any kind of political lens makes you an annoying bad hipster, but literally worshipping Neo as "Neologist" is heroic Praxis
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Dec 27, 2021 23:29
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I want to be a Neo-ologist when I grow up.
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Dec 27, 2021 23:40
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The matrix 5 will explain the academic split between neoology and neonomics
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Dec 27, 2021 23:51
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BiggestBatman posted:As far as Morpheus goes, there's a glimmer of something interesting that Tworpheus is a program combining both Morpheus and Smith but in the end the other dude just does the Smith stuff and he's relegated to a more minor character than the pilot. I still think the fusion is basically the same gesture as naming the other fan "Bugs", who's a representative of Warner Bros corporate that gets the reboot rolling. Both a fan and a suit. Like having the human/machine city of I/0, it's a union of opposites thing
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Dec 27, 2021 23:58
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I am embarrassed on behalf of everyone involved with this awful nonsense. This dumpster fire is far worse than either original trilogy sequels. Cramped and weak action set pieces. Unintelligible nonsense plot. Compelling dialogue is limited to 1 character. Bugs character is a poor man's retread of other characters and isn't half as believable. Morpheus character has none of the gravitas of the original and even less to do, shouldn't be in the film. Some really bad special effects (old man Neo, Robot characters). Some unintentionally hilarious names (Cybebe???). Bewildering reintroduction of the Merovingian character. Lana should have let WB reboot the franchise themselves.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:00
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Pennant posted:Lana should have let WB reboot the franchise themselves. Kind of hard to take the post seriously after this one.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:09
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Pennant posted:Bewildering reintroduction of the Merovingian character. Honestly Merv's gently caress-the-internet babbling and "you haven't seen the last of me," combined with Neo's weary "oh god" at seeing him again, is way more compelling spinoff/sequel bait than whatever Smith was on about.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:16
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Pennant posted:I am embarrassed on behalf of everyone involved with this awful nonsense. This dumpster fire is far worse than either original trilogy sequels. ...but there is something to be said for the hundreds of other people who worked on that first film (and maybe the other two) and contributed to its greatness and how they might feel about its continuation being what it is. I'd be interested in what Bill Pope thinks, for example. So for fun, I decided to see if he expressed any opinions. Here's an interview where he talks about how filming for the Matrix sequels sucked rear end because the Wachowskis were trusting in Stanley Kubrick's style of filming of doing 90 takes: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/07/the-matrix-cinematographer-sequels-mind-numbing-1234573077/ This kinda kills the argument (for me, anyway) that filming taking 4 months was a detriment to the film.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:19
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