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Ok lets breakdown the groups of matrix 4 viewers: Level 1: Theater Viewers Home Streaming As this is still pandemic time, home streaming is likely to have the largest amount of viewers. So all levels of theater viewers will be less. With home streaming, you will immediately be told that this is the 4th installment. The other 3 films are shown to you and right there for viewing. Also you can pause the movie at any time or rewind it like NPH helpfully demonstrated in film. So if you miss something, you have the chance to get it. For level 2, lets break down the theater viewers: Level 2: Theater viewers Fans of matrix films spontaneous movie watchers Fans of matrix films will be aware that this is the 4th film. Some of these will have rewatched all the films, others will just assume they can remember it. But again, they are all aware that this is a sequel. Spontaneous movie fans might just see the poster and know they like John Wick or something and decide to see the film. This is going to be a very small group during the pandemic. Box office numbers further support this as only something well known like spiderman is crushing it. But this group can be broken down further. Level 3: Spontaneous watchers. Googles the matrix film Doesn't have a phone or something. Only this last subsection of a subsection of a subsection does not know this is a sequel. So there should be a very small percentage of viewers that is not aware that some backstory might be required.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:02
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Filmmaker stop telling me in your film that you didn't want to make the film/millions of dollars challenge! If you don't give a poo poo, why should I? *I had these thoughts more during the second watch than the first. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 19:02
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Boxman posted:Interestingly, setting aside the emotional stakes, I'm not sure the actual plot relies too much on having an encyclopedic knowledge of what happened before. The movie really doesn't have much faith in its audience to remember even the most obvious cues from the original trilogy - cutting to Weaving when Groff shouts "Mr. Anderson" is some real hand-holding, beat-you-over-the-head storytelling. It's why I'm so amazed that people are coming up with every imaginable excuse for not noticing it. It really can't be anything other than a refusal to pay attention when it's like the movie equivalent of those phones with extra large number buttons for old people.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:03
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ImpAtom posted:I for one can't believe that The Matrix went to true love fairytale poo poo. Can you imagine if the first film ended with the protagonist being revived from the dead by true love's first kiss? I guess my feeling was that Matrix 1 had true love as a subplot that drives the main plot, but in Matrix 4 it is the plot from about halfway in. I mean, I'm a big goober who likes rom-coms, I don't find true love offensive as a concept, but when you make the Matrix run on it...eh just doesn't work for me.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:05
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I think that's fair. The true love and its power aspect is at the forefront of the second half, and if it doesn't work for you, that half probably won't either.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:08
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I like the part in the Enter the Matrix game where and guy backflips out of a plane while flipping double birds to the agents in slow motion. That was cool.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:09
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BTW I'm well aware that making the Matrix run on true love is as arbitrary as making it run on body heat. I don't know. It just seems very trite and superficial somehow. Formulaic and Hollywood-y for a franchise that didn't always take that route. Hmmm. Fairy tale was the wrong word.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:11
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During the early montage (and probable high point of the movie) there was one cut/edit of The Important Coffee Shop Woman doing the fingergun and click that I really liked and I'm trying to remember why, a week after seeing the movie. For anyone in a country with HBO Max, can you tell me more of the context? Was the most satisfying cut of the year alongiside the bag-on-head cut in Don't Look Up.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:14
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I guess true love power is par for the course for Wachowski at least. They really like to make love (either romantic or familial) big parts of their films. I generally think they do familial better though.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I guess my feeling was that Matrix 1 had true love as a subplot that drives the main plot, but in Matrix 4 it is the plot from about halfway in. I mean, I'm a big goober who likes rom-coms, I don't find true love offensive as a concept, but when you make the Matrix run on it...eh just doesn't work for me. See I feel the opposite. The Matrix and its sequels are all about true love. It is the driving force behind almost every plot point. The gunfights and kung fu are cool but almost entirely irrelevant. They solve nothing. Neo becomes the one, makes the choice to break the cycle, sacrifices himself all based off Trinity. It has always been what The Matrix runs on. I think people remember the cool fights and forget that Neo and Trinity's romance is the major focus of almost everything. That is why 4 being about that romance above all else makes sense. You can say it doesn't work and I can totally get that but it isn't a new direction. It is the same direction. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 19:21
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Wherever the series goes from here, Neo should end up being the next architect.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:22
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checkplease posted:I guess true love power is par for the course for Wachowski at least. They really like to make love (either romantic or familial) big parts of their films. I generally think they do familial better though. I am one of like three dozen people in the world who enjoyed Jupiter Ascending so I get it. I really don't know why it didn't land for me. I think part of it was production design. When the second half started and they went into the Matrix and ended up in that room full of walkways and wooden walls I immediately felt like they were on a soundstage and a fight was coming. Same thing happened in Mortal Kombat in the froze gym, it was so obviously staged and artificial it felt like theater and not cinema if that makes any sense. I don't think the back half of this movie has huge flaws like people are saying, for me it was the culmination of a bunch of little things. I didn't find Groff's Agent Smith performance compelling, I wasn't buying the love angle and the central animating plot, the fight choreography was middling, etc. I really wish they took another swing at it with Trinity and Neo back together and the machine civil war still raging. These are interesting ideas!
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Dec 28, 2021 19:23
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Personally, in these Hell Times, I enjoyed the movie being basically Lana making her Neo and Trinity action figures kiss while the power of love triumphs over all. And that aspect felt genuine, unlike when the MCU or Star Trek: Discovery attempts the same message.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:24
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VagueRant posted:During the early montage (and probable high point of the movie) there was one cut/edit of The Important Coffee Shop Woman doing the fingergun and click that I really liked and I'm trying to remember why, a week after seeing the movie. For anyone in a country with HBO Max, can you tell me more of the context? that was Sati, the program who's dad made the tanks neo and trinity were in. she spent years keeping an eye on neo in a low key way and helps them rescue trinity later on
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Dec 28, 2021 19:25
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HorseLord posted:that was Sati, the program who's dad made the tanks neo and trinity were in. she spent years keeping an eye on neo in a low key way and helps them rescue trinity later on
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Dec 28, 2021 19:29
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HorseLord posted:It's why I'm so amazed that people are coming up with every imaginable excuse for not noticing it. It really can't be anything other than a refusal to pay attention when it's like the movie equivalent of those phones with extra large number buttons for old people. Yeah I dont understand the bizarre complaints people itt are having about no marketing push to watch the previous films when matrix 4 LITERALLY HAS FOOTAGE OF THE OTHER THREE FILMS SPLICED THROUGHOUT THE RUNTIME. Not to mention how pathetic it is whining about watching previous entries before watching a sequel, like, gently caress man. Hey uhhh, why does sarah connor have ptsd about Arnold in terminator 2? You mean i have to watch that other one from early 80s?
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Dec 28, 2021 19:44
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I didn't rewatch the sequels because they sucked, I barely remembered anything from them, and yet I still enjoyed this movie and followed along well enough. If I hadn't seen them I wouldn't have even watched this 
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Dec 28, 2021 19:45
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HorseLord posted:this is really easy because the movie explained all of it, which you said is bad, even though you also said its bad because it doesn't That's not an accurate summary of the backstory, and also glosses over important details like why Trinity is even there. Basic errors: Neo isn't just 'a man who was important in a war', and isn't kept in the Anomaleum to be studied. Neo is programmed to be the locus of collective human free will inside the matrix, and he is kept in the Anomaleum in order to "stabilize" the matrix and prevent either a system crash due to excess freedom or a costly perpetual war with a rebuilt Zion. (The film constantly talks about how NPH is 'drawing a current' from the Anomaleum, but that's a secondary product and not actually important to the plot.) NPH's character doesn't 'solve' the energy crisis, because a nebulous entity known as "The Suits" already has a solution, which is to just revert the matrix back to what is shown in Matrix 1 and 2. NPH, who arguably represents a distinct machine faction, simply uses this as an opportunity to make a deal with The Suits, where he can create an improved (ninth?) version of the matrix that will generate even greater amounts of fear energy, in exchange for prestige or something. The film uses the analogy of a rebootquel instead of a straight remake. This rebootquel only works if the specific One is the Tom Anderson One, and Tom Anderson only works because he is programmed to have an overwhelming love, specifically for Trinity. As noted before, your summary is inaccurate because much of these details can only be found in a monologue at the end of Matrix 2. Another detail is that Tom Anderson's modal was created as an experiment in making a person go fully insane, as that's allegedy impossible under the existing system (but actually very possible, as shown when Bugs sees Neo not-kill himself). The timeline between the ascendence of The Suits and the point where Niobe gave up on 'freeing minds' is unclear, but Bugs and the rest were freed around then.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:47
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Hand Knit posted:Matrix 4 is Trainspotting 2 in a world without Spud. Even the non-Spud parts of T2 were good tho drat that was a proper sequel
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Dec 28, 2021 20:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's not an accurate summary of the backstory, and also glosses over important details like why Trinity is even there. You asked for a summary of the backstory using only things that can be seen in matrix 4. I gave you exactly what you asked for. Now we've established that all the times you said you couldn't pay attention or understand this movie you were lying, what is it you're actually trying to achieve here? Is it just being annoying?
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Dec 28, 2021 20:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No consumers were notified that Matrix Resurrections requires detailed knowledge of matrix lore to be comprehensible. A significant portion of the audience will consequently be watching this as their first-ever matrix film, and will have no clue what's going on. I know there are people out there that see the 4th movie in a series as their 1st movie in that series. I just don't understand those people, and I don't think movies should cater to those people. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 20:14
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Matrix 3 is older than I was when Matrix 3 came out.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:19
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precision posted:I do feel bad for anyone who doesn't like Morpheus 2. He's probably the best part of the good half of this movie. wish the budget had been able to support this (from one of the writers): quote:AH: I think the most exciting thing that we had to give up because it was too expensive was the machines were supposed to be speaking and they were supposed to be communicating. But the CGI would’ve been very expensive for that. https://www.avclub.com/matrix-resurrections-co-writers-aleksandar-hemon-and-da-1848234303
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Dec 28, 2021 20:21
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HorseLord posted:You asked for a summary of the backstory using only things that can be seen in matrix 4. I gave you exactly what you asked for. You're having difficulty following things. I will repeat myself. The argument is that Matrix 4 doesn't provide sufficient information to understand its plot. This has been demonstrated by how, using only information provided in Matrix 4, you got the overall plot wrong. By giving me what I'd asked for, you have 'proven my point'. On top of this, this plot stuff is all conveyed through blunt expository dialogue. Neo's importance is never actually illustrated, for example - never shown. We are told that he's really, really, inspirational but is not shown actually doing anything inspirational. The argument is not that it's impossible to parse the reams of blunt expository dialogue, but that it's narratively inert and acinematic.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:23
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thrawn527 posted:I know there are people out there that see the 4th movie in a series as their first movie in that series. I just don't understand those people, and I don't think movies should cater to those people. The movie doesn't have 4 in the title, it's just The Matrix Resurrections. This is like complaining that people saw Moonraker without seeing the first eleven films. E: SuperMechagodzilla posted:The argument is that Matrix 4 doesn't provide sufficient information to understand its plot. This has been demonstrated by how, using only information provided in Matrix 4, you got the overall plot wrong. By giving me what I'd asked for, you have 'proven my point'. It really doesn't, though. How does the machine benefit from keeping Neo and Trinity in some suspended near-romance sub routine? It generates more energy? Than what, exactly? The analyst said it took tremendous resources just to establish that situation - so why even do it? In the first act characters break the forth wall and tell the audience that we we're getting a sequel no matter what so don't think too hard or care, just enjoy the bullet time. moths fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 20:24
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Even as a film not liker, I didn't think it was an issue. It splicing in so many god drat bits from the last films was one of the things I didn't like but for me kinda kills any argument of 'I can't remember what happened' cos it constantly shoves it in your face.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:26
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moths posted:The movie doesn't have 4 in the title, it's just The Matrix Resurrections. Bond films are almost all stand alone (except the Daniel Craig ones, but those are a weird exception, and except for a few references that aren't really important). Matrix films are not. I think anyone even remotely familiar with the franchise knows this. Like, I guess it would suck for someone who goes and sees Matrix Resurrections not knowing it's part of an ongoing story. But I really don't think that's most people. And more importantly (for me), that's not me, so I don't really care, and it doesn't change my view of the film. edit: Though on your Bond comment, yeah, I bet people who saw For Your Eyes Only as their first Bond movie were a little confused who the bald guy in the wheel chair was at the beginning, and why Bond dropped him into a smokestack before getting on with the movie. They showed him at Tracy's grave, but that's a weird thing to start your movie with before moving on and not referencing it again. It's almost like it helps if you've seen the previous movies. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 20:26
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There are people watching resurrections who weren't alive when the first one came out. It's kind of silly to expect them to be intimately familiar with the franchise. E: It's actually an ok stand-alone scene because it establishes that Bond is a cool spy dude who doesn't play by the rules. There's history that helps the scene, but it's not mandatory.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:32
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mcmagic posted:Filmmaker stop telling me in your film that you didn't want to make the film/millions of dollars challenge! 
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Dec 28, 2021 20:36
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precision posted:Even the non-Spud parts of T2 were good tho yeah but in a world without Spud, what happens to Renton? What happens to Sick Boy? Well, you get the plot of Matrix 4.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:40
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I mean, I’ll watch another matrix film. It’s still a better watch than most poo poo. Did anyone else find the friendly robots EXTREMELY goofy looking? I legit lolled when one showed up looking like a stingray and Niobe just goes “that’s Kujaku.”
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Dec 28, 2021 20:52
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The friendly robots and real-world AI people were there to introduce playable races in an MMO that'll never get made.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:56
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Ichabod Tane posted:I mean, I’ll watch another matrix film. It’s still a better watch than most poo poo. naw i'm hoping this poo poo turns into Mega Man. There's a machine entirely made out of fans. e: Its name is The Fans, and as a defense measure it spews Mountain Dew
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Dec 28, 2021 21:02
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Mocking the idea of a sequel trilogy and then doing the sequel trilogy sure subverted my expectations!
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Dec 28, 2021 21:03
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I thought it was really weird how new Morpheus could float his parts through grates and stuff, but still acted relatively bound by gravity when he had to do a big jump. Or is he actually just having fun with the situation and imitating Morpheus's classic jump? I feel like there's at least a hint of something interesting there, where a program raised in the Matrix actually only effectively gains superpowers once it's operating in the real world.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:06
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checkplease posted:Did people here not rewatch any of the films here before the 4th one? No, as a father of two kids under 5, the week of Christmas, I did not, IN FACT, watch between 6-8 hours of other movies to prepare for a movie. Like, the fact you think that's a reasonable thing people WILL be doing is laughable. The movie was packed full of "nostalgia" so it could say "heh, nostalgia, am I right?" and it fell flat. The movie was rushed. The movie was a mess. The movie was both a "gently caress you" to fans AND to the studio. On one hand, props for that. On the other, a pill that's meaningless.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:09
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"I literally made you, personally, the villain on my movie" "Yeah whatever hey in this next one can Neo fight a cowboy?" pop fly to McGillicutty posted:No, as a father of two kids under 5, the week of Christmas, I did not, IN FACT, watch between 6-8 hours of other movies to prepare for a movie. You did not need to see the movie opening weekend if you did not want to and didn't remember the previous movies.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:10
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I thought it was pretty good for fans that were into the Trinity and Neo romance.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:10
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Smith and Morpheus, melded... a yin-yang swirl of dark and light. May we call him Smorpheus
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Dec 28, 2021 21:13
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Shageletic posted:naw i'm hoping this poo poo turns into Mega Man. There's a machine entirely made out of fans. How would you feel about a giant Agent Smith made up of regular sized Agent Smiths?
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Dec 28, 2021 21:14
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