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I also admit I have no patience these days for "look at these sainted billionaires who only ever did good things" so emphasizing the Wayne's were shithead wealth hoarders is aok by me.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:40
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I feel like they've been doing the whole 'the Waynes were actually shitheads' thing in one form or another since at least Grant Morrison's Batman run and I've become oh so tired of it. The new trailer still looks great though.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:07
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CzarChasm posted:To point number one, it seemed to hint in the animated movie that the relationship was more of a two way street. This is not overt, or openly stated, just more of a sense of what might have happened That makes sense, and it's kinda more what I'm hoping for as far as the Waynes go. They may have been decent, but they were still Gotham Elite and, whether they liked it or not, probably had some ties to shady people. I think I just wish it was handled more as a known factor than it having a big dramatic Bruce's-psyche-shaking reveal. I liked the Long Halloween comic up until the last couple pages, so I've been curious since DC has shown a willingness to make major changes to their animated adaptations. It's just, well, from what I hear most of the time the changes kinda suck.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:44
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. Honey, I'm a mob doctor now.
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I have zero patience for Good Guy Billionaire stories, so as far as I'm concerned they can keep rewriting Thomas Wayne as having been a man who was outwardly willing to be giving and philanthropic while being an evil, uncaring businessman in the shadows until the day I die.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:56
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I love The Long Halloween comic, but as have yet stayed away from the adaption,. The animation in the trailers for recent DC animated films seems so dire, it never used to look this bad.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:45
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JordanKai posted:I have zero patience for Good Guy Billionaire stories, so as far as I'm concerned they can keep rewriting Thomas Wayne as having been a man who was outwardly willing to be giving and philanthropic while being an evil, uncaring businessman in the shadows until the day I die. You know, I think the difference we have is that I think of Thomas Wayne as a doctor first, who just happens to be an old money billionaire, and so I filter things through that lens. And sure, you have rear end in a top hat, amoral doctors, but I'm gonna give a doctor the benefit of the doubt over a billionaire any day.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:59
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Every time I see Pattinson Batman I think of that Shortpacked with sexy Batman.
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Dec 28, 2021 23:04
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This is the only version of billionaire Bruce Wayne that's worth exploring in any future media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbWcrOhXHoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47p3G2iLiA
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Dec 28, 2021 23:05
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The problem with going with "even Batman's parents were bad", especially if they make it that Bruce is also failing on the philanthropy side of things, is that it'll vindicate every smug "well, what if Batman used his money to help Gotham instead of beating up poor people" hot take that everyone who has never read a comic in the last 40 years trots out like they're the first one to have this epiphany. The Discourse will be awful if the movie takes that route.
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Dec 28, 2021 23:32
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Parkingtigers posted:The problem with going with "even Batman's parents were bad", especially if they make it that Bruce is also failing on the philanthropy side of things, is that it'll vindicate every smug "well, what if Batman used his money to help Gotham instead of beating up poor people" hot take that everyone who has never read a comic in the last 40 years trots out like they're the first one to have this epiphany. I mean that is going to be unavoidable because a lot of people these days are not down with improbably wealthy dudes spending money on jets while people starve in the streets and Batman is defined as bring "the guy who beats up thugs" That is why adventurer hero Batman is more fun than Grim And Gritty Batman because when he is fighting space monsters he feels far more likable than spending enough money to give every person in Gotham health insurance and UBI on a giant plane shaped like his logo.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:11
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Parkingtigers posted:The problem with going with "even Batman's parents were bad", especially if they make it that Bruce is also failing on the philanthropy side of things, is that it'll vindicate every smug "well, what if Batman used his money to help Gotham instead of beating up poor people" hot take that everyone who has never read a comic in the last 40 years trots out like they're the first one to have this epiphany. You better get ready for it then, because forget the whether the Waynes were good people or not, the fact that the movie is even raising the philanthropy question is automatically going to heat up those lukewarm takes. Because no matter what kind of lesson Bruce learns and no matter what sort of philanthropy he starts, he's still going to be Batman in the end (because there's no way in hell this is gonna be a one-and-done thing with no sequel) so the whole "Batman beats up poor people" read is never going away and the even if he throws away all his money the question is always gonna be "well he could be using his Bat-budget on worthy causes" TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 00:19
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I feel like the Wayne’s were good people, but were probably forced into being part of the Court of Owls.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:27
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TwoPair posted:You better get ready for it then, because forget the whether the Waynes were good people or not, the fact that the movie is even raising the philanthropy question is automatically going to heat up those lukewarm takes. Because no matter what kind of lesson Bruce learns and no matter what sort of philanthropy he starts, he's still going to be Batman in the end (because there's no way in hell this is gonna be a one-and-done thing with no sequel) so the whole "Batman beats up poor people" read is never going away and the even if he throws away all his money the question is always gonna be "well he could be using his Bat-budget on worthy causes" That's okay. I have Thought Slime's 'Is Batman Fascist' video locked and loaded. It won't help, but it does point out how silly a lot of these hottest of takes mostly boil down to wanting to feel smug people like a character from the funny books.
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Dec 29, 2021 01:28
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Dawgstar posted:That's okay. I have Thought Slime's 'Is Batman Fascist' video locked and loaded. It won't help, but it does point out how silly a lot of these hottest of takes mostly boil down to wanting to feel smug people like a character from the funny books. I mean I genuinely enjoy Batman as a character and enjoy a lot of his comics. My problem is that a lot of Batman stuff wants to glorify the worst aspects of the character because they are more 'realistic' and in turn make incoherent stories or intentionally focus on the idea of how hosed up and insane Batman is. And those stories can be fun sometimes but they are infinitely boring, especially in a universe which leads to loving godawful takes like "WHY DOESN'T BATMAN KILL THE JOKER." You can do a lot with the idea that Batman is a heroic adventurer who is defined by his ingenuity, courage and dedication to doing the right thing and making the world a better place. The moment you step away from that and try to ground him in gritty realism all the most serious flaws of the character become staggeringly apparent and it just depends on if the writer is interested in exploring those issues or not. However nobody wants to do a heroic adventure Batman movie because it would be 'too baby' or 'too campy.' You can balance it but it's super hard and BTAS is probably one of the only successes and even that leads to "Batman is a broken sad individual who lost everyone close to him while making no real impact on Gotham and is left sitting alone in his mansion until a coincidence gives him new purpose."
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Dec 29, 2021 01:42
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The fact that one of the lines highlighted is Catwoman making fun of him calling himself 'Vengeance' in the first teaser, says the idea's likely her basically going "OK, rich boy, you got your angst out, now what's your actual plan"
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Dec 29, 2021 01:53
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ImpAtom posted:I mean I genuinely enjoy Batman as a character and enjoy a lot of his comics. My problem is that a lot of Batman stuff wants to glorify the worst aspects of the character because they are more 'realistic' and in turn make incoherent stories or intentionally focus on the idea of how hosed up and insane Batman is. And those stories can be fun sometimes but they are infinitely boring, especially in a universe which leads to loving godawful takes like "WHY DOESN'T BATMAN KILL THE JOKER." That's actually the video's point. The answer is 'intrinsically no, but you can certainly play up elements and thanks to Frank Miller that's what a lot of people do.'
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Dec 29, 2021 02:32
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There’s no such thing as a good billionaire and we’re already extending a ton of good will and suspension of disbelief by entertaining the possibility that Batman/Bruce Wayne can have the position he has in society and still in any way be a heroic figure. I see no reason why we should be expected to extent even more to Thomas and Martha. gently caress em.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:28
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There's also no such thing as Superman.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:29
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I am honestly fine with a good, fictional billionaire. Especially Bruce's parents who inherited the money. Whoever the original Wayne was who amassed a fortune, yeah that guy's probably burning in hell, but I can hold two simultaneous thoughts in my head that Thomas was a decent guy and in the real world we shouldn't have billionaires. Just in general I love superheroes but it doesn't mean I'd be favour of any of them in real life.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:59
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Ultimately comics are a medium where the unreal can happen and if an alien can come to Earth and fly, there can somehow be one good billionaire.
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Dec 29, 2021 04:12
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if we're gonna go for 100 % optimally socially conscious superheroes, then we gotta nix the idea of vigilantism in general so I dunno, Batman's already asking us a fair bit to set aside before we even get to him and his family having a lot of money
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Dec 29, 2021 04:48
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I think Batman should write a book, about why you shouldn't commit crimes, and give that book away for free using his money. Stop the problem at it's source: that people don't know committing crimes is bad And I know what you are thinking this doesn't address the villains of his that just have mental illnesses that make them do bad things. For that he would write a self help book and lobby Congress to legalize weed
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Dec 29, 2021 07:02
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I think Batman should write a book, about why you shouldn't commit crimes, and give that book away for free using his money. Stop the problem at it's source: that people don't know committing crimes is bad Why You Shouldn't Commit Crimes, by Batman posted:
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Dec 29, 2021 07:44
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Lobok posted:I am honestly fine with a good, fictional billionaire. Especially Bruce's parents who inherited the money. Whoever the original Wayne was who amassed a fortune, yeah that guy's probably burning in hell, but I can hold two simultaneous thoughts in my head that Thomas was a decent guy and in the real world we shouldn't have billionaires. Just in general I love superheroes but it doesn't mean I'd be favour of any of them in real life. Same. People who insist on injecting their doomer brainworms into every aspect of existence are utterly exhausting to me. Like, chill out for crying out loud. These are all fantasical stories set in utterly absurd worlds with only the slightest similarity to our own.
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Dec 29, 2021 12:23
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Sentinel Red posted:Same. People who insist on injecting their doomer brainworms into every aspect of existence are utterly exhausting to me. Like, chill out for crying out loud. These are all fantasical stories set in utterly absurd worlds with only the slightest similarity to our own. Or maybe don't be mad people have takes about a comic book character you like?? Batman is inherently tied to class warfare, even when he's got skates on, so maybe pick a different character to hold this standard to? And before you say oh I'm just tired of the same conversation, we're literally watching Disney cede punisher to white nationalists in real time. The conversation can and should continue. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 17:01
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It's really not that complicated at the end of the day: I don't want Batman to be dumb idiot that I dislike, so interpretations that make him a dumb idiot that I dislike are bad.bushisms.txt posted:we're literally watching Disney cede punisher to white nationalists in real time.
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Dec 29, 2021 17:22
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Yeah, I think that needs more explanation. I don't even know what that's referring to. I feel like I missed something. I know some white nationalists and authoritarian weirdos have embraced the Punisher, but don't know how Disney is involved other than owning the character.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:17
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Cops refused to stop breaking the law and using the Punisher logo without permission, so Marvel is changing it.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:20
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Karloff posted:Yeah, I think that needs more explanation. I don't even know what that's referring to. I feel like I missed something. I know some white nationalists and authoritarian weirdos have embraced the Punisher, but don't know how Disney is involved other than owning the character.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:23
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Ah I see, that does seem ill advised. I hope they reverse it, as it doesn't seem a good solution to that particular problem. A better way would be to have Punisher step up his killing of bad cops, that might piss them off enough to stop wearing the logo.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:28
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They think they’re the good ones.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:31
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Aphrodite posted:They think they’re the good ones. Clearly the solution is to specifically name and shame these cops within the Punisher comics themselves
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Dec 29, 2021 19:51
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i dont think theres enough page space to name every cop in america
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Dec 29, 2021 19:53
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Has there been an actual insider confirming that the logo change is permanent and a response to misappropriation of the logo? Because looking at the actual marketing for the comic so far, it just seems like a temporary status quo change that Punisher goes through from time to time, like the time he was working for angels or became a Frankenstein. This time the gimmick is ninja-Punisher by having him lead the Hand, and so he's getting a men-yoroi inspired logo.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:44
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It’s a little odd that the insanely litigious Disney has not been suing for misuse of that trademark
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Dec 29, 2021 20:47
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s a little odd that the insanely litigious Disney has not been suing for misuse of that trademark Who are they going to sue? Trademark law generally only applies if you're using the trademark as part of your business - like infamously the tombstone and the daycare mural. Individual cops putting Punisher logos on their gear aren't profiting from it and unless you want to play whack-a-mole with everyone making Punisher decals then there's not a lot of options. It's like trying to sue someone for having Mickey Mouse on their protest sign - there's not really a legal basis for it, even in the far-reaching disaster that is American copyright law.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:00
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Yeah, it's what lets all those mall kiosks that sell bootleg Naruto shirts or Calvin peeing on blank stickers. There's no one company producing this stuff so it's like playing whack a mole. Stop one and somebody else will pop up selling the exact same thing.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:34
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The logo will be back to normal in a few months, they aren't "cedeing it to white supremacists" they're just doing marketing. That's the same kind of knee jerk reaction that makes the other side go "they made captain America black!", the one thing you can count on is giant entertainment businesses going back to status quo
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Dec 29, 2021 21:37
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There's also the fact that Disney suing the police doesn't actually do much, and I don't mean in the amoral profit driven calculus of a corporation, but for anyone. Police unions will do what they always do and shield officers from any consequences at all and likely weasel a way in to make taxpayers pay for legal fees. Cops who were going to murder people will still do so even without a comic book character logo on their gear, and that's assuming they didn't immediately come up with a dumbass "legally distinct" Big Scary White Skull to use in its place. Disney gets a PR boost with half the country and demonized by the other half, making no real money upfront either way. The sticky moral questions of Punisher as a character and right-wing figure don't go away. The only thing I guess is that people online get a serotonin boost from something changing without anything actually changing at all.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:44
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maybe they should delete the punisher, just sweep him under the rug as a product of the times
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Dec 29, 2021 21:51
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