(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Value is in the eye of the laborer.
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Dec 28, 2021 23:59
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:26 |
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what to do when basically dropping a locke quote doesn't tip off the thread to potential irony?
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Dec 29, 2021 00:05
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hot witch divorcee posted:there's a whole lot of people in the CPUSA chomping at the bit to reform the party for a new era. it is worth checking it out.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:07
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I was thinking that was from Shakespeare, Locke seems like a pain in the rear end.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:17
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The Voice of Labor posted:what to do when basically dropping a locke quote doesn't tip off the thread to potential irony? irony should shown to the dustbin of history imo
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Dec 29, 2021 00:23
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Is it a production for use vs production for exchange thing?
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Dec 29, 2021 00:35
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AnimeIsTrash posted:We should all post our favorite noble savage takes itt. dave graeber's last book had been well-received in some quarters. apparently some cultures had different political structures in different seasons, and this had nothing to do with their material conditions, needs, or opportunities being different across those seasons, but actually those folks were just having fun, just doing whatever they wanted, like a totalizing form of guerilla theater or maybe a society-wide flash-mob. hopefully we can recover this delightful sense of playfulness which has been crushed out of us by the man/capitalism.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:41
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Kindest Forums User posted:Any western socialist party that doesn’t have a robust and up-to-date theory of imperialism supported with practical relationships in the third world is doomed to chauvinism. Take this Belgium party for example. It sounds like their primary platform is geared towards improving the conditions of the new “working-class”: the gig worker. So what happens when they win political power? They assume control of state which is deeply embedded in the structure and spoils of imperialism. They can either redirect those spoils towards the gig worker and improve their material condition: thus maintaining their political power, but as social fascists. Or, they do an about face and tell all the gig workers that their material conditions are still vastly better than the working class of the world – and we must smash our parasitic relationship with the third world, at a great sacrifice to ourselves… Unless the Belgium ML party has gone through the exhaustive lengths to prepare the western working class for that sacrifice, they will lose a two-front war against their own supporters and the global capitalists. i saw that rmute didn't respond to this and as the only other belgian lurking this thread: this is such an insanely bad faith take on the ptb. we made three books now about how how we are still taking the side of the industrial working class (i am sure you can read, and you have therefore read the parts where we say this. they're not hard to find, as they're always at the start of the books). also in those books, we very clearly say several times that political power (how would you define political power btw) is brought from struggle, not governing. yes, we are going to be in parliaments because people in belgium believe in parliament (they just don't believe in the establishment parties), no we are not going to be in government (this is a thing we say frequently in the media too and a thing we have to educate even our members on). you are talking about a party that in the almost 50 years has existed has always taken a side for anti-imperialism, and has always been the only voice in belgium for anti-imperialism (we made mistakes though, mostly wrt the three worlds theory, and we're probably gonna make more mistakes). if you look at an anti-imperialist voice in belgium, it is probably through a ptb institution that they got to speak out that opinion i look at your post and i see negri and hardt, saying the real contradiction is between the workers of the core and the workers of the periphery. i see an ultraleftist tendency of communism that has decidedly and in no uncertain terms has failed time and time again to do any substantial practice anywhere. you can call to abolish nato while you do ground work for immediate improvements in the core. these are not contradictorial at all. you can say hands off of china while you organize people on local or national issues. are you enjoying the rent of the third world when you're losing 30% of your paycheck because you have to quarantine? when market energy prices skyrocket and suddenly you're paying three times more for electricity than you were last month? when your boss fires you for trying to unionize? when companies pollute waterways and forests for their financial gain? how are we going to build class consciousness in a society where class as a mainstream political idea has been absent in western countries for 30 years? we are going to have to re-educate the class of itself to become a class for itself through the idea that a class working for itself can win, and can win big? yeah, we can start education on imperialism at the same time, but it's only the vanguard that will understand this in the current objective conditions. but there is a vanguard, and that's good news. the biggest trade union in belgium has an open pro-cuba policy and has a front for the defense of cuba. what is this new working class you try to posit on "the modern day socialists"? are those not members of the working class? are we going to be so stupid as to only work with the industrial working class? are communists not seeking to work for all workers of the world? what's the fundamental difference in class position of the uber driver compared to the steelworker? i am honestly curious how you are going to see any progress in the western left (and there is, plenty!) if that's your bar. you're only preparing yourself for a lifetime of disappointment and cynicism
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Dec 29, 2021 00:41
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belgend posted:a really loving good post  that's the loving spirit
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Dec 29, 2021 01:58
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any Austrian locals with any updates on how it is going in Graz?
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Dec 29, 2021 10:14
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wynott dunn posted:any Austrian locals with any updates on how it is going in Graz? what's happening there?
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Dec 29, 2021 16:52
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Far as I can tell the mayor is a communist?
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Dec 29, 2021 16:55
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All I know about Belgium is de slimste mens ter wereld, waffles, a fictional detective, and that my CHUD brother got his rear end kicked at a bar in Brussels one time.
Gene Hackman Fan has issued a correction as of 22:43 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 16:56
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They still haven’t renamed it Leningraz smdh
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Dec 29, 2021 18:41
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the communists won an upset municipal victory after setting up a tenant dispute hotline and helping a lot of people win against landlords def should have renamed it Stalingraz or Leningraz
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Dec 29, 2021 22:03
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grazograd
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Dec 29, 2021 23:32
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Radicalizing a coworker is fun when you see them starting to connect the dots. Just wanted to mention that.
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Dec 30, 2021 05:28
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I turned my bff from a libertarian no taxes freak into an anarchist friendly to communism. Still in progress but soon.
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Dec 30, 2021 11:01
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dead gay comedy forums posted:I'm brazilian and I think this perspective is extremely counterproductive in terms of aiding us in the "developing"/third world as an asian member of the global ruling class, i completely agree. what we need is organizational incorporation of all possible sources of capital and community access, not quibbling over the ideological purity of any given member over petty concerns of potential issues with abuse of personal power. or soto say, im sure we can resolve pronoun issues after the revolution by adopting as an imperial a language with asexual language structure. like finnish, sattumalta puuttuu formaalinen seksuaalisuus kielestä, kun on vaan hän
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Dec 30, 2021 16:53
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:Radicalizing a coworker is fun when you see them starting to connect the dots. grats. keep doing that lol
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Dec 30, 2021 16:54
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lollontee posted:as an asian member of the global ruling class, i completely agree. uh ok. communism in the first world is about getting a community toothbrush and then immediately sending it to Bangladesh as reparations for the sins of the decisions we didn’t make.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:59
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communism in the first world should certainly involve immediately bringing the war machine to a halt, and not just on a "we need that money to pay for social democracy" basis
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Dec 30, 2021 23:44
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thats the plan
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Dec 30, 2021 23:44
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imagine a rube goldberg machine, paddling a human rear end forever
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Dec 30, 2021 23:51
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I think reparations would be best handled like how Sankara put it: if you want to send aid, send them their own means of production. Machinery, equipment, training. Like the question about reparations for slavery, there are multiple ways our horseshit has damaged ppl, there should be multiple ways to make amends. Warning: I'm a dumbass.
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Dec 30, 2021 23:55
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oh word?
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Dec 30, 2021 23:57
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croup coughfield posted:oh word? Yep, just a straight up loving idiot. Figure I'd get that outta the way.
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Dec 31, 2021 00:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:imagine a rube goldberg machine, paddling a human rear end forever That's probably fully automated luxury communism for some people but what's that got to do with me?
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Dec 31, 2021 00:35
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https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1476872677705015301
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Dec 31, 2021 18:01
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"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew; "Marxism among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Marxist-time, when it has come round - apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that - as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!"
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Dec 31, 2021 18:31
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Doc Hawkins posted:"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew; "Marxism among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Marxist-time, when it has come round - apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that - as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!"
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Dec 31, 2021 18:40
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Doc Hawkins posted:"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew; "Marxism among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Marxist-time, when it has come round - apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that - as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!" alhamdulilAh
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Jan 1, 2022 13:16
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how would one characterize the model of governance of the current Chinese state? ive read a lot of takes on this but it often seems to have an anarchist (liberal) bias. it generally seems hard to find decent analysis in English about post Mao China
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Jan 1, 2022 19:16
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I’m moving to Transnistria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXzhcfYlKFQ
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Jan 1, 2022 19:29
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MLSM posted:I’m moving to Transnistria I'm not crying that's just dust
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Jan 1, 2022 19:59
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bi crimes posted:how would one characterize the model of governance of the current Chinese state? ive read a lot of takes on this but it often seems to have an anarchist (liberal) bias. it generally seems hard to find decent analysis in English about post Mao China
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Jan 1, 2022 20:11
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bi crimes posted:how would one characterize the model of governance of the current Chinese state? ive read a lot of takes on this but it often seems to have an anarchist (liberal) bias. it generally seems hard to find decent analysis in English about post Mao China https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/socialism-with-chinese-characteristics This Qiao Collective list is a good overview of contemporary Chinese socialism. It's a lot of reading though.
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Jan 1, 2022 20:40
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i liked Losurdos take as well https://sociologicalfragments.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/losurdo-defence_of_modern_day_china-1.pdf
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Jan 1, 2022 23:39
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DirtyRobot posted:This is definitely not written by a lib or an anarchist: https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/ "Post-Soviet history demonstrated that the Soviet Union was indeed the bulwark of the international socialist movement, even and especially for those who opted for non-alignment and engaged in stern and performative condemnations of its cruelty. Even today, syndicalists and social democrats in the West look backwards rather than outwards when trying to understand their own history. They never understood that they were basking in the fading afterglow of someone else’s revolution."
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Jan 2, 2022 00:30
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:26 |
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Just crossposting this from the C-SPAM COVID thread.Zodium posted:alright, i'll take a stab. i have this toy theory i've been workshopping over the last few years to help myself understand historical materialism and marxism, that I call cybernetic capitalism. and i am truly sorry, but you're going to have to read my garbage thoughts to understand why I believe the international working class will win, even in the united states. no doubt actual marxists and leftists have said all of this much better, it is just how I put it together.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:45
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