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MJeff posted:Just outta curiosity, was it confirmed anywhere that Tiffany was her pre-awakening name or is that just the logical thing to assume from her going "Tiffany? Really?"
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Dec 29, 2021 06:45
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This is an awful lot of drama in the thread for a pretty simple scene which just reflects that Lana Wachowski finds one simple interpretation of the Matrix allegory limiting and "another Matrix". She has said as much in interviews.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:46
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Actually it is not very much drama. And it's a pretty normal discussion about how the movie specifically communicates some stuff. I'm starting to realize, part of what I struggle with in the movie's criticism of WB is that it can kind of be viewed in contradictory ways. Is the profit motive the problem in the first place, or is it the fact that these particular suits are morons who want to go about their recreation in a lovely way? Would the pitch meeting actually be better if they were presented as thoughtful, and good at marketing? I guess I think there's kind of two separate interpretations here, one where Lana says "gently caress you WB, I won't let you ruin my art," and one where she says "gently caress you WB, we the artists are actually the reason the Matrix made a shitload of money, and you should shut up and let us be in charge of this whole process if you want the money to keep rolling in." I'm not saying that's inherently bad, but it makes a lot of this movie very confusing to me. Martman fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 06:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Neo's importance is never actually illustrated, for example - never shown. We are told that he's really, really, inspirational but is not shown actually doing anything inspirational. We literally see him inspire Bugs to free herself from the Matrix. SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is why the “neoologist” is ‘good’ despite being a glorified Wikipedia editor. He believes Neo is a literally-real war hero and even wants to gently caress Neo. I'm getting flashbacks to your posts in the Alien thread talking about lizard people sex cults and all this other weird QAnon crap that was utterly unhinged. Don't bring that poo poo here as well.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:13
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Martman posted:Actually it is not very much drama. And it's a pretty normal discussion about how the movie specifically communicates some stuff. I think the messiness of it is 'intentional' such as putting forward very personal art out through a studio is hard. You don't want to compromise, some of the compromises people push might make it land better but not necessarily how you want, people are going to interpret it however they want, etc. I've struggled with similar conflicts for presentations that I've done/quit.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:18
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SUNKOS posted:I'm getting flashbacks to your posts in the Alien thread talking about lizard people sex cults and all this other weird QAnon crap that was utterly unhinged. Don't bring that poo poo here as well. Was this in the gbs thread? I don’t remember any of that in the cined thread.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:25
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:This is an awful lot of drama in the thread for a pretty simple scene which just reflects that Lana Wachowski finds one simple interpretation of the Matrix allegory limiting and "another Matrix". She has said as much in interviews. Right; it’s pretty much directly stated in the movie, by various characters, that the matrix simply ‘is’. It isn’t ‘about’ anything because it encompasses everything: a full-fledged alternate universe that simply happens to be ruled by invisible nightmare monsters. The monsters don’t “represent” Facebook, or racism, or whatever. They just literally exist. This is true to an extent, but risks crossing over into the depoliticization. Films aren’t universes, and the focus on the extradimensional spacemonsters obviously distracts from other topics. There’s nothing neutral about ‘staying neutral’ on the issue of the franchise’s appropriation by right-wing conspiracy theorists and cryptofascists, for example. SUNKOS posted:We literally see him inspire Bugs to free herself from the Matrix. He frowns at her while attempting suicide. Hardly the stuff of legend. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 07:26
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All of the people continuing to argue about whether the film is mocking the trans/capitalism/fascism interpretations by having the corporate dorks talking about them are silly. The scene is mostly about Neo contemplating what the Matrix is so good and bad things are both included. The biggest fault of those characters in that scene is that they fail to mention one of the biggest things about the Matrix series, the thing that resurfaces to take center stage in Resurrections: it is a love story.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:37
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MJeff posted:I was poking around to see if Lilly had said anything about this film and I wound up stumbling on this quote from Lana and I think it pretty well explains why I felt the end of this movie hit so strongly. There's something kinda powerful about a creator going through this process and deciding to end their movie with two characters that had died, flying hand-in-hand off to their happy ending that they didn't get the first time. Did Lana make this movie because of the quote above (which seems like the most likely answer, she's literally quoted as saying it) or was WB going to make this movie without her and she stepped in to prevent them from doing so (which has only been communicated to me directly by the movie itself.) Because if the answer is both then that is a wild coincidence. Is there any material outside of the movie indicating WB's intentions with this sequel?
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Dec 29, 2021 07:38
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I thought someone pointed out an interesting detail that it was only men who were swarm programs, but that’s not the case, a girl in a school uniform was part of that swarm and tries to stab Neo when they’re on the bullet train.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:41
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DaveKap posted:Okay this actually confuses me because now I feel like I don't have a straight answer. Warner Brothers has been talking about developing new Matrix stuff for years. Zak Penn was working on a treatment or script for a new Matrix project before Lana decided to make Resurrections.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:42
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Problematic Pigeon posted:Warner Brothers has been talking about developing new Matrix stuff for years. Zak Penn was working on a treatment or script for a new Matrix project before Lana decided to make Resurrections.
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Dec 29, 2021 08:17
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DaveKap posted:Now I'm trying to picture what a post-WB-rebooted-Matrix-4 Matrix movie made by Lana would've looked like. So much of what we got was dependent on the 20 year gap. I vaguely remember speculation that it may have been a young Morpheus prequel so maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed.
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Dec 29, 2021 08:29
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Naobi in the traffic control tower is loving bullshit where she keeps getting killed by that helicopter. MGS 1 flashbacks. I had a friend who hadn't seen any of the sequals and we got through all the ambushes in the sewers to the bit with the vampires and he thought that was total bollocks basically.
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Dec 29, 2021 08:53
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The idea that matrix 4 was just a way for Lana to spend WB money and use it as a 2 year grief counselling session is very very funny and makes me dislike the film a tiny bit less.
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Dec 29, 2021 08:55
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I watched it last night. It was better than the sequels, nowhere near as good as the original. A solid 7/10 movie imo The good: - Jessica Henwick absolutely crushes it as Bugs - I was really hype to see Neil Patrick Harris in the trailer so him turning out to be villain ruled, he was great in that role - All the meta references - The good machines were a great twist on the mythos and just plain adorable  - Trinity's husband is literally called Chad lmao - I loved the way the film played with some of the original sequences - Lana bringing in a bunch of the Sense8 cast  - The Jefferson Airplane montage was fantastic The ok: - The Neo/Trinity love story has never really landed with me and it's the same here - The new Morpheus is real fun but he just disappears for the end of the movie. The actor did a great performance but the script never gave the character the weight he deserved - Jonathan Groff did a good Hugo Weaving tribute but his role in the story and his relationship with Neo never really felt properly defined The bad: - For a franchise that was groundbreaking in how it depicted action on screen, the action scenes in this movie were poo poo - I heard there was a post-credits scene so I stayed to the end and it was a cat video joke 
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Dec 29, 2021 11:05
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This movie is garbage. Hard to sit through. Hope it stays dead this time.
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Dec 29, 2021 11:59
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ruddiger posted:I thought someone pointed out an interesting detail that it was only men who were swarm programs, but that’s not the case, a girl in a school uniform was part of that swarm and tries to stab Neo when they’re on the bullet train. She was just a random crazy girl taking advantage of the moment.
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Dec 29, 2021 12:11
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What we most desire is desire itself
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Dec 29, 2021 12:36
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I don't think it's simply that Resurrections puts the trans reading in the mouths of one of the dumb marketing guys, but that the film has zero interest in exploring it despite them knowing how much the franchise means to many trans people. I mean why not just have trans characters in it or do the Switch character you couldn't before. Hell, there's even a missed own goal on giving Neo gender dysphoria by making his false projected in-Matrix image a woman.
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Dec 29, 2021 12:54
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Watch sense8
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Dec 29, 2021 13:09
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I feel like making Trinity's false DSI identity male would have accomplished a lot of that. The audience knows Trinity, Neo loves her, and then the machine are misgendering her as a means of control.
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Dec 29, 2021 13:13
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Necrothatcher posted:I don't think it's simply that Resurrections puts the trans reading in the mouths of one of the dumb marketing guys, but that the film has zero interest in exploring it despite them knowing how much the franchise means to many trans people. It seem like it was a movie that heavily explored the trans allegory, but using the same language forced on the first movie. The marketing guy wanted to make it a marketing bullet point and would have done it wrong, instead of being a personal narrative put through an abstracted scifi lens. Like if switch had been in the first movie that would have been cool and nice, but it wouldn't really change anything about WHY matrix had a trans reading. The marketing guy getting to throw a "hello my name is transy transerson! I will always be on screen alone so we can easily edit me out in international release, but believe me we will put out 5000 press releases about me" type 'representation' movies always do isn't anything.
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Dec 29, 2021 13:43
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I watched matrix 1 and 2 last night for the first time in many years,the first one is tight as hell,great effects (minus some bad sentinel cgi at the end)and it doesn’t drag the fight scenes out too much. The second movie starts off real well and then IMMEDIATELY puts the loving brakes on to show us zion. And have people talking. And staring. And walking. And doing horrendous rave scenes. But it’s all like the most cliched episode of star trek,just so boring. And once that’s over the movie picks up again only to slow down with the Merovingian and the oracle. Also the cgi looks far worse in places (burly brawl,neo flying and grabbing morpheus and the keymaker) and nobody ever gave a poo poo about link or the loving old zion mayor. “So we need machines and they need us, is that your point, Councilor?” Councillor Hamann: “No. No point. Old men like me don't bother with making points. There's no point.” So gently caress off and stop making GBS threads up the movie you old fart.
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Dec 29, 2021 13:44
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:And doing horrendous rave scenes. I didn't think it was possible, but you've actually stumbled upon a worse opinion than any of the previous ones in this thread.
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Dec 29, 2021 13:59
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Butternubs posted:I didn't think it was possible, but you've actually stumbled upon a worse opinion than any of the previous ones in this thread. I hope you get cornered by the old councillor guy and he talks nonstop for three hours.
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Dec 29, 2021 14:10
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Watch sense8 This, it's easily the Wachowskis' best work
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Dec 29, 2021 14:50
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I haven't caught up to the thread but I don't think the fights are bad on purpose, but things like this: Lana shows up to meet the WB exec and see's their version in pre-production (tiffany not trinity is present) "we've been waiting so long" The exec postures about how much (perceived) control they have over Lana "My power comes from a single word: bullet time. Kind of ironic, using the power that defined you to control you." Depicted is the wb exec's "bullet time", and it literally is what 99% of every movie had in the gold rush after the matrix where it's just people holding poses and moving slowly while adding in easy "slow-mo" CG poo poo like sparks in the background are definitely on purpose
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Dec 29, 2021 14:56
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So the stand-in for Warner Bros was not the character literally named Buggs with a bunny tattoo? The film opens with her salvaging old media for something to bring back.
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Dec 29, 2021 14:58
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Rarity posted:- The new Morpheus is real fun but he just disappears for the end of the movie. The actor did a great performance but the script never gave the character the weight he deserved I forget where I saw this now so take it for what you will but I recall reading yesterday that they planned for the new Morpheus to have a much greater presence in the third act of the film where apparently he was supposed to fight a machine (the person revealing this also added details such as the specific name of the machine and that they had their own language which we would have seen/heard for the first time) but it was cut for budget reasons since it was apparently going to be a very fancy CGI fight. I'm assuming said fight would have taken place in the tower where Neo & Trinity were kept and presumably the fight would have taken place while trying to rescue and free Trinity? It definitely seems likely given that the heist was pulled off so easily and many people have mentioned how little the new Morpheus had to do in the final third of the film. Maybe we'll get some concept art eventually but if it is indeed true I'm surprised that a new Matrix film would have run into budget issues if WB was so determined to bring it back.
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Dec 29, 2021 15:23
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Much more than budget directly I feel like the limiting factor in the making of this movie was that the filming took place between February and October 2020. I think a lot more of this movie was filmed on sets in california than they had originally planned.
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Dec 29, 2021 15:36
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moths posted:So the stand-in for Warner Bros was not the character literally named Buggs with a bunny tattoo? Well It's spelt bugs as in computer bugs I thought. And with her being a self sacrificing leader, willing to put herself in harms way instead of her friends, I'd think she's not meant to be a soul less media company personally.
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Dec 29, 2021 15:41
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Am I going crazy or did she not say "...like Buggs Bunny" when she's introduced?
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Dec 29, 2021 15:43
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Mega Comrade posted:Well It's spelt bugs as in computer bugs I thought. And with her being a self sacrificing leader, willing to put herself in harms way instead of her friends, I'd think she's not meant to be a soul less media company personally. Also Warner Brothers is literally name dropped as the parent company of the Neo Depression Machine that is his job.
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Dec 29, 2021 15:43
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moths posted:Am I going crazy or did she not say "...like Buggs Bunny" when she's introduced? Plus the "What's Up Doc" when Neo wakes up, she is totally a stand in for Warner corporate. She is also a fan creator, the movie blurs the distinction between reboot and fanfic
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Dec 29, 2021 15:46
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Found the source for the Morpheus thing, it's an AV Club interview with co-writers Aleksandar Hemon and David Mitchell:quote:AVC: The scenes in the “real world,” where humans and machines are working together and growing strawberries, is a nice new wrinkle. Were there any personal favorite ideas like the strawberries that were close to making it into the movie but ended up cut?
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Dec 29, 2021 15:55
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Missed opportunity to let actual AI write the dialogue and then TTS it. Morpheus, take this punch. I have a gift for you it is this kick. Hi-ya. We are fighting. We fight now. Ow! That was painful, you are good at fighting.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:05
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moths posted:I feel like making Trinity's false DSI identity male would have accomplished a lot of that. I think it's worth remembering that while The Matrix may not have much in terms of literal transgender characters, it has always played with femininity and masculinity which is different than gender. Neo and Trinity are not transgender characters, they do often oscillate between masculine and feminine identities. The We Hate Movies podcast did an episode yesterday on The Matrix where they made a good example of how a lot of the literary references in The Matrix cast Neo in feminine roles such as Alice, Dorothy, or Snow White being woken up my true love's kiss.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:57
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Neo's montage at the beginning of the film should have been set to Three Dog Night's song One Is the Loneliest Number. Then the ending should have been set to Huey Lewis' song The Power of Love. There you go, movie fixed.
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Dec 29, 2021 17:04
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mmmmalo posted:Plus the "What's Up Doc" when Neo wakes up, she is totally a stand in for Warner corporate. She is also a fan creator, the movie blurs the distinction between reboot and fanfic Right: Warner Bros. is a literal character in the movie, but barely does anything. It's described in two lines of dialogue, it isn't shown onscreen and, like - oh no! - it owns the rights to the Matrix IP and wants to do a sequel... for money?! Meanwhile, Tom Anderson is evidently cofounder of the Deus Machina videogame company, which has no real-world analogue. Tom Anderson isn't Lana Wachowski, and DM isn't Village Roadshow. Here we should note that, in the particulars of the setting, the world of 'San Francisco' has existed for less than twenty years. Its entire history is simulated. "Warner Bros." (the character) isn't Warner Bros. (the company), because it just arbitrarily popped into existence in a seemingly-perpetual alt-2019 where a prominently-branded DELL desktop can run a universe simulation with true AI.
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Dec 29, 2021 17:07
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