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barbecue at the folks posted:I really enjoy the food chat since it lets me learn something new about a region I rarely visit and makes for fun discussion, a lot more so than the usual armchair general speculation it's a shame the GBS eastern europe thread kinda died okroshka looks like the salat olivier of soup
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Dec 28, 2021 19:47
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:it's a shame the GBS eastern europe thread kinda died Olivier is actually good, whereas okroshka can be as cursed as using kvas for base liquid. And yeah, GBS thread died before the pile of GBS changes, so I don’t even know if I should bother reviving it.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:00
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Olivier is actually good, whereas okroshka can be as cursed as using kvas for base liquid. And yeah, GBS thread died before the pile of GBS changes, so I don’t even know if I should bother reviving it. 
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Dec 28, 2021 21:36
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Analysis by George Friedman on the US-Russia-Ukraine 'State of Play' (Dec 28)quote:Russia has been trying to reclaim the buffers it lost after the collapse of the Soviet Union. These buffers, the most important of which are in Eastern Europe, insulate Russia from potential attack. In the past, these attacks have tended to emerge unexpectedly, so Russia wants to have them before a threat emerges. It doesn’t necessarily need the buffers to be part of the Russian Federation; it just needs to make sure they are not hostile (or occupied by hostile powers). Grouchio fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 22:23
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Olivier is actually good, whereas okroshka can be as cursed as using kvas for base liquid. And yeah, GBS thread died before the pile of GBS changes, so I don’t even know if I should bother reviving it. all salats are basically SCPs and olivier is no exception. this is stockholm syndrome.
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Dec 28, 2021 23:35
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FishBulbia posted:all salats are basically SCPs and olivier is no exception. this is stockholm syndrome. You haven't even heard how I prefer my olivier. I don't like marinated cucumber, and properly salted cucumber is a bit too sharp for it in my taste, so I use fresh cucumber. I don't believe in eggs in salad (and I'm slightly allergic to eggs anyway), so I don't use eggs. Furthermore, I absolutely cannot stand mayonnaise, unless it's like 0.3 micrograms of it in a burger, or I'm having like garlic aioli at an expensive French restaurant, so I don't use mayonnaise, or anything else, for dressing. Lastly, when I was a kid, my family, and families of my friends, couldn't always get large quantities of lean hot-smoked meat, so I grew up on eating olivier made with doctor's sausage. The olivier I make for myself literally consists of boiled potatoes, fresh cucumber, and doctor's sausage, all cubed. No dressing, optional seasoning with some green onion and salt. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 23:50
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actually add some mayo to that. my main aversion is usually the eggs. big fan of dokorskaya so i am offend you implied the tube meat was an inferior product
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Dec 29, 2021 00:10
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FishBulbia posted:actually add some mayo to that. my main aversion is usually the eggs. big fan of dokorskaya so i am offend you implied the tube meat was an inferior product I literally gag on generic local mayo in any noticeable quantities, it’s not going to happen. Adding enough cucumber does more than a sufficient job at making it slippery. And yeah sorry about your pink snake, but freshly smoked lean cuts beat it in almost any application. Eggs in olivier though seem to be generally controversial here - majority of takes I’ve witnessed don’t use them.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:32
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This is such a piece of poo poo analysis. quote:When war broke out in the South Caucasus between Azerbaijan and Armenia, Russia dispatched a peacekeeping force and, with its enormous influence in the region, constructed a system of relationships dominated by Russia. The current arrangement is dominated by Turkey. Azerbaijan and Turkey got everything they wanted, Russia's security client Armenia got absolutely punked, and the division Russia has sitting in Nag-Kar for peacekeeping has done nothing to stop the skirmishing. That conflict wasn't some big win for ascendant regional power Russia, but for NATO-aligned Turkey. quote:At worst, it’s a prime candidate for a war of attrition as the U.S., weary of Russia’s anti-aircraft capability, fires cruise missiles from afar. (Russia can, of course, shoot some down, but the losses would be huge.) A stand-off Air/Naval intervention by the USMil is most certainly not in the cards given the escalation risk. quote:The Russians have not engaged in multidivisional offensives since 1945. The Soviets engaged in miltidivisional offensives in Afghanistan, and the Russians did in Chechnya and Georgia. quote:In the end, the thing that the Russians will have gained is that they sat down across from the Americans as equals, and the rest of the world will have seen it. But they already accomplished just that, earlier this year! There are far cheaper and less destabilizing ways to secure a photo op with Biden than mobilizing the entire western and southern and most of the central military districts. Only way this isn't ending in a push into Ukranian territory is if A) Putin decides last minute war isn't worth the cost (and nothing NATO or the US has done has altered the initial calculus that led to the beginning of mobilization) or B) he gets what he wants in terms of security guarantees. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 00:52
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Why don't we just promise Putin to respect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation?
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Dec 29, 2021 01:16
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Conspiratiorist posted:The current arrangement is dominated by Turkey. Azerbaijan and Turkey got everything they wanted, Russia's security client Armenia got absolutely punked, and the division Russia has sitting in Nag-Kar for peacekeeping has done nothing to stop the skirmishing.
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Dec 29, 2021 02:20
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Russia already had a division-strenght presence in Armenia so the peacekeeping element is no gain. It seems plenty of garden variety thinkpiece writers are trying to use the Armenia-Azerbaijan situation to paint the picture of a regional power expanding its buffers, and consequently framing the Ukraine situation within that context, but the truth to me seems closer to a regional power that's been backed into a corner with NATO-backed states challenging its previous spheres of influence.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:24
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Conspiratiorist posted:Russia already had a division-strenght presence in Armenia so the peacekeeping element is no gain. Turkish foreign policy has almost never really had much to do with anything NATO wide aside from USSR fears, let alone NATO approved. I mean you're right that his framing of that conflict is bad, but I think you're falling into a similar trap, just approaching it as a plus for NATO rather than a plus for Russia. That was a super regional conflict. Turkish interest is very nationalist as much as anything considering their relations with Azerbaijan, and anti-relations with Armenia. Cross sectioning frankly coincidentally with Russia's residual influence in the area (and Iran's) as it did. I doubt even Russian views see those goings on in some sort of "NATO YIKES!" context.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:46
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The proper view is of a Russia in decline, making very risky military moves to defend a shrinking sphere of influence.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:48
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Morrow posted:The proper view is of a Russia in decline, making very risky military moves to defend a shrinking sphere of influence. Yeah I could see the ArmAz conflict in the context of Russia worrying about their brand as influential, impactful, and relevant. And instability in that area effects that brand one way or the other.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:52
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Conspiratiorist posted:Russia already had a division-strenght presence in Armenia so the peacekeeping element is no gain. The Kremlin saw the reality on the ground in the region Armenia drifting towards the EU and becoming weaker compared to Azerbaijan. So policy needed to be readjusted.
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Dec 29, 2021 03:53
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Grape posted:Turkish foreign policy has almost never really had much to do with anything NATO wide aside from USSR fears, let alone NATO approved. Oh, I'm well aware of the game Erdogan plays. I'm just emphasizing that the conflict wasn't any kind of win for Russia, and if anything it was a win for a state that's a member of NATO - even if said state was very much acting out of their own intiative and interests rather than as part of any broader alliance policy.
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Dec 29, 2021 04:01
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Grape posted:Yeah I could see the ArmAz conflict in the context of Russia worrying about their brand as influential, impactful, and relevant. And instability in that area effects that brand one way or the other. That's it. Like if/when the Ukraine situation flares up, and hypothetically Erdogan nudges Azerbaijan to make a move, the Russian response would be to grant the Azeris quick concesions to make it go away. Realistically they can't afford to get involved but it's a matter of national prestige to pretend they're relevant. Morrow posted:The proper view is of a Russia in decline, making very risky military moves to defend a shrinking sphere of influence. That's my take, with consideration to Putin himself as an aging autocrat potentially worried about his legacy. I also think old guard analysts as exemplified by Friedman's piece there are rather stuck in a cold war mindset where military posturing was freely employed with an end goal of achieving bilateral summits, ignoring how its use in said capacity has greatly fallen out of favor in the last few decades.
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Dec 29, 2021 04:45
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cinci zoo sniper posted:And the vanilla and potato crisps ice cream with chocolate glazing, in the focus of photo, was okay then, I presume? Yes, it is. if it helps any, ben and jerry's once sent this abomination out into the market, so it seems like a type of universal crime against food (unlike jimmy fallon, who is a distinctly american shame) 
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Dec 29, 2021 05:39
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The olivier I make for myself literally consists of boiled potatoes, fresh cucumber, and doctor's sausage, all cubed. No dressing, optional seasoning with some green onion and salt. Going back to food cultural exchange - have you tried apples, boiled carrots/parsley roots, mushrooms, corn?
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Dec 29, 2021 08:21
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mmkay posted:Going back to food cultural exchange - have you tried apples, boiled carrots/parsley roots, mushrooms, corn? Only separately, please don’t tell there’s a land out there where people make olivier with apples.
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Dec 29, 2021 09:14
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Only separately, please don’t tell there’s a land out there where people make olivier with apples. Well, we don't put any meat in the salad (and I had to google it was the same overall idea of a salad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivier_salad#Central_Europe ), but yeah we stick in it the ingredients I posted, +potatoes, pickled cucumbers and eggs.
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Dec 29, 2021 09:36
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mmkay posted:Well, we don't put any meat in the salad (and I had to google it was the same overall idea of a salad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivier_salad#Central_Europe ), but yeah we stick in it the ingredients I posted, +potatoes, pickled cucumbers and eggs.  Poland is like a speedrun of making wrong decisions. And I say that as someone who had eaten toasts with salami and Nutella.On a more serious note, I wouldn’t necessarily qualify your take as an olivier, but not because it’s not a valid olivier variant - I just grew up where everyone calls it “meat salad”, which doesn’t quite work with a dish that has apples instead of meat. Also, again - apples with mayo? What the gently caress. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 09:44
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polish food is either Really Good (see flaczki; a culinary masterpiece) or, well, really not-so-good (see this abomination; this horrific perversion of olivier as a concept)
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Dec 29, 2021 10:19
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According to that Wiki article you can take literally anything and call it a Polish potato salad and somebody will nod sagely and agree
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Dec 29, 2021 10:21
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Sałatka jarzynowa is pretty good when combined with something else. I usually get a slice of bread, a bit of pork chop and top it with sałatka. Pretty nice after shot of vodka. e: never had one with tart apples or pickles
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Dec 29, 2021 10:23
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The variation of olivier in my family is colloquially called "kaczy żer" or duck's feed. The romanticism of Polish kitchen never ceases to amaze.
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Dec 29, 2021 10:34
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alex314 posted:Sałatka jarzynowa is pretty good when combined with something else. I usually get a slice of bread, a bit of pork chop and top it with sałatka. Pretty nice after shot of vodka. I've had both, but adding apples seems pretty rare. It wasn't the worst thing, but for me definitely out of place. In general, I love salatkas. I miss the Dutch "Huzaren" variant, from when I used to live there.
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Dec 29, 2021 11:16
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I'm not touching any of the olivier varieties but all the salad talk made me extremely nostalgic for crab salad (rice, crab sticks, canned corn, cucumber, mayo).
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Dec 29, 2021 11:18
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:if it helps any, ben and jerry's once sent this abomination out into the market, so it seems like a type of universal crime against food (unlike jimmy fallon, who is a distinctly american shame) Vermont’s finest indeed, heh. But having just posted here a photo of soup with banana and Coca-Cola in it, I may have less of a strong hand at mocking American food.
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Dec 29, 2021 11:21
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I've never experienced it being called холодный борщ in Russian - usually холодник, seldom свекольник. Speaking of Russian soups, here's something from my old job in Russia: I guess I should translate this for everyone to marvel. “Okroshka with mojito” for $2 Pear, kiwi fruit, banana, apple, grapes, apricot, canned pineapple, celery (stem), lime, mint, sugar syrup, condensed milk, Coca-Cola.
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Dec 29, 2021 11:30
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Based on picture alone I'd love to try Okroshka Tatarskaya.
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Dec 29, 2021 11:34
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alex314 posted:Based on picture alone I'd love to try Okroshka Tatarskaya. Beef, potato, egg, cucumber, kvas, mustard, sour cream, and greens (looks like dill and green onion).
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Dec 29, 2021 11:37
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Arzachel posted:I'm not touching any of the olivier varieties but all the salad talk made me extremely nostalgic for crab salad (rice, crab sticks, canned corn, cucumber, mayo). this is indeed an incredibly Powerful salad and i am happy to report that around 50% of all food i have consumed over the last two days or so have been this salad (new year food season started early this year )
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Dec 29, 2021 11:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I guess I should translate this for everyone to marvel. Take away the celery, serve it in a bowl as fruit salad... meh, probably would
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Dec 29, 2021 12:01
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, again - apples with mayo? What the gently caress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_salad this and the american style chicken salad with mayo, apples, and cranberries are both extremely good FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 12:05
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nurmie posted:this is indeed an incredibly Powerful salad and i am happy to report that around 50% of all food i have consumed over the last two days or so have been this salad (new year food season started early this year I’m into the third kilogram of mandarin oranges over here, and have only had them and sandwiches since Christmas Day. Going to keep it like this until 31st, which is when I plan to make olivier and start planning return to sanity. FishBulbia posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_salad this and the american style chicken salad with mayo, apples, and cranberries are both extremely good 
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Dec 29, 2021 12:32
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Scandinavians can play too - Danish "Russian Salad" 2-3 cooked beets 3-4 pickled cucumbers 1 apple 1 small red onion 2 tbsp. capers 3-4 cooked potatoes 2 tbsp. grated horseradish ca. 3-4 dl mayonnaise ca. 1 dl creme fraiche  I would not eat this abomination
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Dec 29, 2021 12:41
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Waldorf salad is pretty amazing, though.
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Dec 29, 2021 12:43
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Rust Martialis posted:Scandinavians can play too - Danish "Russian Salad" absolutly would. I sometimes just eat shredded beets with a lattice of mayo on top. Always preferred the fur coat to the herring so this looks fantastic.
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Dec 29, 2021 12:51
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