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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Levitate posted:Seems clear he's questioning whether the CDC guidance affected mask usage, not whether masks are effective. I'm having a difficult time finding any hard evidence on mask use declining other than tons of annecdotal data (including my own). TBH mask use measurements are hard to come by at all. However, according to NYT, covid cases did shoot up from 21k 7 day average at the end of May to over 40k 7 day average at the end of June. This was also the time Delta was first hitting the US.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:40
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As others have stated, the CDC's guidance has the effect of most employers just adopting it as their official policy without question. It pisses people off because - anyone who is taking measures to protect themselves but can't WFH will be hosed more than they already were by their coworkers and managers - anyone who gets sick can be pressured into coming back to work by lovely managers "if their symptoms seem to be improving"
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Dec 29, 2021 21:42
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empty whippet box posted:It definitely did. Anecdotally, where I live in Ogden, UT, mask usage was actually really great in the first few months of the year. After this guidance, I rarely saw masks, maybe 1 out of every 10 people at most. Yeah here when mask mandates were removed I definitely saw an immediate increase of people not wearing them, but I'm in the SF Bay area and even then most people continued to wear masks inside. But even if it was "ok" at the time (pre-delta), it basically let the cat out of the bag. California did re-instate mask mandates indoors (except for indoor dining which...cmon) and compliance is good here, but other places are going to be more "well the CDC says..." As for the quarantine stuff yeah I bet pretty much everywhere is gonna jump on board with that virtualboyCOLOR posted:I'm having a difficult time finding any hard evidence on mask use declining other than tons of annecdotal data (including my own). TBH mask use measurements are hard to come by at all. it all feels like a lifetime ago but I vaguely recall that basically the well vaccinated states were seeing very low case numbers by June but places like Florida were seeing cases rising extremely quickly and it was assumed that vaccinations were the main reason. Perhaps I'm misremembering. I don't think Delta really hit until July, June was probably when we were hearing about it hitting India so bad. Levitate fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 21:42
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Keep in mind the CDC made these changes while case numbers and hospital numbers are going vertical in the graphs. I find the change indefensible. Levitate posted:Yeah here when mask mandates were removed I definitely saw an immediate increase of people not wearing them, but I'm in the SF Bay area and even then most people continued to wear masks inside. Delta hit India in May. June it was starting to take hold in the US. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/newly-deemed-variant-concern-delta-accounts-10-percent-u-s-n1270915 July things were looking decent but then August hit and the US hasn't really recovered since. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 21:45
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I can't get over how insane "come back to work if you're symptomatic but improving" is. Resolving? By what metric? If I was at 102F and coughing, am I supposed to come in at 99.5F and wheezing? And of course, anybody whose ever been sick knows you can wake up feeling great and be down in the dumps by lunchtime.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:47
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brugroffil posted:It caused states and companies to drop mask mandates immediately. What was the impact? When the mask mandate was dropped may 14th the 7 day average was 34,499. It was down from that one and two months after. It didn't reach that number again for 65 days. There seems to be absolutely no sort of inflection at the point the CDC made that announcement. Like spiritually it feels like it SHOULD matter, because it was a bad call, and masks are good. but in practice it seems to have negligible actual in the world change in case spread. At least not in any obvious dramatic way that shows up in case count charts. (mostly because people kept wearing and not wearing masks as they had been before and the actual change from it wasn't enough to redirect the trend that was already ongoing)
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Dec 29, 2021 21:49
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mods rename me 'lots of experts'
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Dec 29, 2021 21:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What was the impact? Again I'd guess it had more to do with vax rates and not getting hit with an extremely infectious variant yet I think I lost the thread on why this is being argued though. The latest guideline seems to be weirdly thought out though or communicated. Like eh, leaving a bunch of wiggle room for interpretation, seems dumb. I have no problem thinking this is more influenced by business interests if in no other way than them convincing the CDC that things are about to fall apart if everyone stays home 10-15 days post symptoms clearing up
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Dec 29, 2021 21:54
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The tally for today: 31F with a learning disability and asthma presenting with a sore throat, subjective fever and a little short of breath, Sp02 of 96% who made it into an exam room despite the fact we’re supposed to screen people. Two doses of Moderna finished in May. Tested positive in the office. Virtual visit with a 51F with morbid obesity and DM2 who progressed pretty rapidly to a cough, fevers and worsening dyspnea at night over the last couple days. Tested positive yesterday. Advised her to get a pulse ox ASAP and if she couldn’t get one tonight, get evaluated in the ED. Three messages from patients who tested positive at outside locations, not sure about their symptoms: 33F with two doses. 49F with severe allergies who declined getting vaccinated tested positive. Seen by same day as a virtual 12/22. Her ROS is lit up like a Christmas tree of positives and she was advised to contact 911. She hasn’t returned the voicemail I left earlier today after I was notified. And for kicks I got a message from a 27M trying to become either FDNY or an EMT who has fought tooth and nail against vaccine education for months now who messaged me trying to get a medical waiver because he tested positive 12/9/21. Plus 2 other patients double vaxed with pending outside tests.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:56
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Herstory Begins Now posted:mods rename me 'lots of experts'
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Dec 29, 2021 21:58
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Professor Beetus posted:This is a blatantly obvious troll account if you didn't notice from the username ANOTHER SCORCHER. Go ahead and put them on your ignore list. Professor Beetus posted:Remember when I probed you for claiming that people who were disagreeing with you were "blue MAGA?" Like 2 days ago? By all means, keep accusing people who are disagreeing with you of gross behavior and see how that goes for you. This user has been given many, many, many chances to stop doing this, including an ultimatum to stop doing this in the previous covid thread or face a threadban. Professor Beetus posted:Next time you post something like this without a source you're getting a week. This isn't something you heard around the water cooler and you know it. This is your only warning. This is actually, at a minimum, the third warning this user has received for posting misinformation in the covid thread. You gave them one 11 days ago, and greyjoybastard gave them one literally yesterday. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 29, 2021 21:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What was the impact? I'm trying to follow this thread back to what you originally stated: Owlofcreamcheese posted:Did the CDC dropped mask mandate even actually DO anything? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but why is being able to pick bad CDC guidance out as an "inflection point on a covid case graph" the standard that's being discussed? Bad guidance from the country's authority on disease control is bad regardless, for a lot of reasons that might not be directly attributable to an immediate case spike on a graph...right?
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Dec 29, 2021 22:07
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Discendo Vox posted:If you know that this is a blatantly obvious troll account, why do you want them to still be here? Why is the onus on everyone else to tolerate the troll, when we are explicitly told to report them, and also told to presume everyone operates in good faith? This isn't the mod feedback thread. But two of those posters were probated, your first quote was a probated post. If you don't think the punishments are adequate, I don't know what to tell you. It's an ongoing conversation and I am not going to preemptively ban posters because they disagree with you. I am making a conscious effort to be more on top of the thread's quality and probating posts that I think warrant them. If you disagree with those decisions you could bring it up with another mod but we generally discuss these things together before making those decisions and are usually on the same page about them.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:24
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It really looks like you're letting known shitheads relentlessly troll the thread while suggesting the issue is just that people disagree with them. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 29, 2021 22:27
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speng31b posted:Bad guidance from the country's authority on disease control is bad regardless, for a lot of reasons that might not be directly attributable to an immediate case spike on a graph...right? Like, the way you check advice was good or bad is see if it moves the needle on cases or deaths or something, right? If there was a rule saying something and then getting rid of it didn't change anything then it might have been the best rule ever but it just wasn't the thing to fight covid. Like it doesn't matter if the CDC recommends 10 days or 100 days or 1000 days if no one is actually doing it.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:40
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like, the way you check advice was good or bad is see if it moves the needle on cases or deaths or something, right? If there was a rule saying something and then getting rid of it didn't change anything then it might have been the best rule ever but it just wasn't the thing to fight covid. But the CDC did make the change and businesses are reacting to the change by adopting the new (in my opinion dangerous) guidance. There are tangible changes happening all the whole cases and hospitalizations are increasing in ways that haven’t been seen since 2020.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:41
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Professor Beetus posted:I am not going to preemptively ban posters because they disagree with you. So how about you ban them because you yourself have deemed them to be chronic trolls
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Dec 29, 2021 22:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What was the impact? The impact was much less mask usage around me, in suburban Chicago, until Illinois brought back mandates during the Delta wave this fall. If you don't think there was an impact on case load, the conclusion must be that masks don't matter.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:50
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Is This Week In Virology still good for Covid news? I was an avid John Campbell listener up until he did a viewer survey once and the vast majority of respondents seemed to be conservative minded people. Comments on his recent videos seem to be from a very different set of people than last year so something might have changed. Looking for something I can mostly listen to/watch. Have 0 interest in Twitter people.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:52
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Tiny Timbs posted:It really looks like you're letting known shitheads relentlessly troll the thread while suggesting the issue is just that people disagree with them. Have you considered that disagreeing in a mean manner is lovely, but also not trolling?
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Dec 29, 2021 22:52
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brugroffil posted:The impact was much less mask usage around me, in suburban Chicago, until Illinois brought back mandates during the Delta wave this fall. LA proper(not the valley, OC, or inland) has basically never stopped masking.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:54
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Owlofcreamcheese would you mine clarifying your positions on masks as it relates to covid 19?
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Dec 29, 2021 22:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like, the way you check advice was good or bad is see if it moves the needle on cases or deaths or something, right? If there was a rule saying something and then getting rid of it didn't change anything then it might have been the best rule ever but it just wasn't the thing to fight covid. Personally I think advice from the CDC can be good or bad advice independently of how the graph of COVID cases appears to respond to it, and there can be good and bad outcomes from that advice that may be more abstract and/or more deferred. Many of the most vulnerable groups in our society just have to do whatever their employer says, and many employers adopt the CDC guidance as-is. My own employer literally just copy pastes CDC policies out as employee policies within a few days of any new guidances being issued. Bad guidance puts vulnerable people in bad situations. speng31b fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 22:56
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buglord posted:Is This Week In Virology still good for Covid news? I was an avid John Campbell listener up until he did a viewer survey once and the vast majority of respondents seemed to be conservative minded people. Comments on his recent videos seem to be from a very different set of people than last year so something might have changed. If you've listened to TWiV previously it's still the same-- good quality reviews of cutting-edge research by PhDs and MDs who generally know what they're talking about and are pretty good about communicating it to laypeople, with the caveat that they're mostly laboratory researchers and not public health experts. Though Daniel Griffin does to clinical updates. The reason I stopped listening regularly is the podcasts regularly clock in at 100+ min each and there are two or more a week, so it's a significant time commitment.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:01
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brugroffil posted:The impact was much less mask usage around me, in suburban Chicago, until Illinois brought back mandates during the Delta wave this fall. Overall the impact has been significantly fewer masks in public places, including but perhaps especially schools. So I’m curious to know as well…do masks work, OOCC?
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Dec 29, 2021 23:14
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buglord posted:Is This Week In Virology still good for Covid news? I was an avid John Campbell listener up until he did a viewer survey once and the vast majority of respondents seemed to be conservative minded people. Comments on his recent videos seem to be from a very different set of people than last year so something might have changed. Is "Dr." (RN) Campbell still beating the Ivermectin drum? I watched him for a little bit but basically stopped last year when he suggested that cases going down in Czechia was related to them allowing Ivermectin. As for TWiV, they are real proper scientists and they go very deep into the science and I've learned a lot over the past few years from them. It's a major time investment though. The "other" thread don't like them because they're not doomer enough so there's that.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:17
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If the worst case of the CDC or other letter entity issuing guidance to use more or better masks is nobody changes their behavior, then you might as well issue the better guidance and hope for the best even if the change is small. Unless the argument is that masking itself has a greater cost than benefit or that there's some other significant hidden cost.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:20
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Professor Beetus posted:
Maybe one day people will respond to my nonconfrontational posts 
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Dec 29, 2021 23:30
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Fritz the Horse posted:If you've listened to TWiV previously it's still the same-- good quality reviews of cutting-edge research by PhDs and MDs who generally know what they're talking about and are pretty good about communicating it to laypeople, with the caveat that they're mostly laboratory researchers and not public health experts. Though Daniel Griffin does to clinical updates. The TWiV people are good at communicating science and how to approach things critically and with a great deal of nuance. That being said, they lose this edge when it comes to applying any of that to the current situation (the host basically dying on the hills that variants are not significantly more transmissible, more deadly, etc., that boosters are unnecessary, that getting a booster through natural infection may be desirable, etc.) Daniel Griffin is also knowledgeable, but is equally unable to apply the lessons from he sees in his experience to broader policy implications. He routinely laments how COVID affects kids, but insists schools can be opened safely and effectively and even argues kids are even safer at school, as otherwise they might hang out outside of school and get each other infected.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:34
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's easy to make up perfect public health plans. Getting the virus under control is not that difficult for a wealthy, functional state. China has done so many times and the only reason they had to do it more than once was due to the mishandling of the response elsewhere. Your comparisons to other epidemics are asinine and ill-fitting. Getting a respiratory virus under control can be achieved by controlling mass, public action, rather than individual, private action as in those other examples you mentioned.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:35
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Professor Beetus posted:Be more like A big flaming stink, because nothing anyone says here matters wrt to public policy and we're all in the same boat, whether we agree or not. Suzera fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 23:36
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Judakel posted:Getting the virus under control is not that difficult for a wealthy, functional state. China has done so many times and the only reason they had to do it more than once was due to the mishandling of the response elsewhere. Your comparisons to other epidemics are asinine and ill-fitting. Getting a respiratory virus under control can be achieved by controlling mass, public action, rather than individual, private action as in those other examples you mentioned. I wouldn't classify getting an extremely infectious airborne virus under control 'not that difficult', as seen by virtually every single country in the world loving it up. Even the ones that did ok against wildtype got hosed by Delta, and Omicron is even more infectious You also didn't answer his point which is how do you deal with people not following public health orders in the first place. Even countries where a 1/3 of the population doesn't believe it's a chinese hoax are having issues with this
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Dec 29, 2021 23:43
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Judakel posted:Getting the virus under control is not that difficult for a wealthy, functional state. China has done so many times Through unprecedented powers of surveillance on the private lives of individuals. If you're proposing that it's a sane policy that everyone must own smartphones that are sending the government data about where you're going and allow the government to label you a hazard that should be turned away from everywhere (a policy that has already been believed to be abused against minority groups, and god knows how this country would use it) then please say so that we can all stop taking you seriously. This is a country where people are trying to avoid their fellow countrymen's attempt to sniff out their visit to Planned Parenthood for a bounty. They are not scanning a QR code and submitting an entry request to the government to go in and get an abortion.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:47
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If nothing else, there's a TON of people out there asking basic questions in places I can see like "how much should I ACTUALLY worry about Omicron" or "do I really need to wear a mask" despite all the news going around because it's madness out there and hard to sort through all the information to reach a conclusion that isn't just picking someone and believing everything they say you should do vs other people saying entirely different things. Many sides of which have doctors of various sorts with them. The government entities (at least in the USA) that should be doing this are doing a terrible job of a combination of disseminating information or maintaining credibility over time. Then there's the outright misinformation like vaccines make you completely immune to infection which still comes up occasionally. I spend a lot of time in this thread and others to have better answers, and ultimately the data, theory and recommendations I pass on are going to be based on how good of information and theoretical knowledge I have. Presumably people in here aren't just keeping everything to this thread alone and are at least talking to family, friends and so on to try to keep them safe too. If you're not, I know the big relatively obvious misinformation spreaders (knowingly or not) are trying to get their hooks into anyone who will listen. The stakes for discussion in this thread (and other covid threads) may not be world-shaking, but it's also not nothing. Suzera fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 23:49
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Owlofcreamcheese would you mine clarifying your positions on masks as it relates to covid 19? As an object I'm sure a good enough mask protects against nearly 100% of infections. But a guidance isn't a mask. In all the different permutations of different countries adding or removing or strengthening or weakening mask guidance I don't think there is a single example of any particular shift in case rates. You can pull up a graph of deaths vs cases in a bunch of countries and instantly see the exact place vaccines started to exist because vaccines do a lot. But there isn't really any graphs you can say "ah, there is where the mask mandate started/ended/increased/decreased" for example, england just reinstated it's mask mandate, can you guess where that happened on this graph? (no, it's not the no reporting on christmas dip)  I'm sure masks work, wear a mask. Do mask guidances work? Eh. it's not really clear they do at all.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:01
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Alctel posted:I wouldn't classify getting an extremely infectious airborne virus under control 'not that difficult', as seen by virtually every single country in the world loving it up. Even the ones that did ok against wildtype got hosed by Delta, and Omicron is even more infectious Did I stop at not that difficult or did I qualify it by implying you needed to mobilize as a wealthy country? Craptacular! posted:Through unprecedented powers of surveillance on the private lives of individuals. If you're proposing that it's a sane policy that everyone must own smartphones that are sending the government data about where you're going and allow the government to label you a hazard that should be turned away from everywhere (a policy that has already been believed to be abused against minority groups, and god knows how this country would use it) then please say so that we can all stop taking you seriously. There's no libertarian way to end a pandemic, so scaremongering about authoritarianism is not going to work on me. I don't care if you take me seriously.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:02
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Judakel posted:There's no libertarian way to end a pandemic, so scaremongering about authoritarianism is not going to work on me. I don't care if you take me seriously. It's not about libertarianism for all, it's about protecting the rights of the minority who vary from being oppressed to being hunted for sport by law enforcement, and also asking if maybe anything short of massive changes to the Constitution and throwing out the Supreme Court in it's entirety is a workable solution, because many people would rather take vaccines every few months for the rest of their natural lives.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:05
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Craptacular! posted:It's not about libertarianism for all, it's about protecting the rights of the minority who vary from being oppressed to being hunted for sport by law enforcement, and also asking if maybe anything short of massive changes to the Constitution and throwing out the Supreme Court in it's entirety is a workable solution, because many people would rather take vaccines every few months for the rest of their natural lives. You're dwelling on a far-fetched fantasy, when you could be focused on the reality of an ongoing pandemic and what it will take to stop it - what it would take for that to happen in this country. By the way, those very same people you're fantasizing about being oppressed also cannot get a vaccine very easily, not once, nevermind every few months. There is, presently, no workable solution that the US is trying.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:10
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Fritz the Horse posted:If you've listened to TWiV previously it's still the same-- good quality reviews of cutting-edge research by PhDs and MDs who generally know what they're talking about and are pretty good about communicating it to laypeople, with the caveat that they're mostly laboratory researchers and not public health experts. Though Daniel Griffin does to clinical updates. I would say the clinical updates are worth listening to. I think the biggest problem with TWIV is that VRR (the host) has severe Posting Brain and got really really dug in on some takes — like boosters were a bad idea — that it's been hard to talk him out of. You can tell all the other panelists are hesitant and on eggshells around him on certain topics. Griffin is the only one who seems to be able to disagree with him, and even Griffin does it somewhat gently/deferentially. I also think they generally have been too optimistic in their predictions, when measured against actual subsequent events. But Griffin's clinical updates have been helpful for things like "okay, I need to know which monoclonals will work in case one of my relatives get hospitalized, or how much to trust a rapid test."
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Dec 30, 2021 00:15
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Judakel posted:You're dwelling on a far-fetched fantasy, when you could be focused on the reality of an ongoing pandemic and what it will take to stop it - what it would take for that to happen in this country. By the way, those very same people you're fantasizing about being oppressed also cannot get a vaccine very easily, not once, nevermind every few months. There is, presently, no workable solution that the US is trying. Okay, but who is China's solution working for? It's not working well for the people on the very bottom, it's been a terrible time. Many systems worked well for somebody at some point. Ancient Rome and feudal France once worked for somebody, but both came tumbling down.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:16
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