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No. 6 posted:This film is appallingly bad. Terrible acting, cinematography, and writing. It's a two hour long exposition dump which looks like a budget Netflix film. Sure.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:06
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precision posted:Haha I'm not sure you thought this through. I don't think you should be using limpwristed as a negative term anymore but definitely not in the same sentence as LGBTQ Rights Oh no, you got me, I totally am defeated. moths posted:I remember being bored during the mech fight and it was like getting tired of breasts during Showgirls all over again. I think it was because it genuinely didn't feel like anything in it mattered. There were almost no consequences and no real goal except surviving until Neo won but they didn't really emphasize the fact that it was a fight for survival. You could remove it from the movie and nothing would change in terms of stakes except maybe that Neo needs to win slightly faster.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:08
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This movie is straight up dog poo poo. Way to stick it to WB, I guess? You know, the studio responsible for greenlighting the original movies in the first place . . .
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Dec 30, 2021 01:12
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Polo-Rican posted:imho the third movie feels disappointing because the matrix itself feels underplayed by the end. One of the impactful ideas from the first matrix is the sense of scale: "holy poo poo the entire planet is fake! every single person you see on earth is simulated!" Hundreds of millions of lives are at stake. But by the end of the third one, the matrix feels small... you never see any people beyond the main cast. The final scene takes place in a park that's completely empty except for the oracle, the architect, and the girl from the subway platform. I think it's implied that smith has infected the entire matrix by that point, but if that's the case, that's quite the event to gloss over lol Going beyond this, Matrix 4 picks up on absolutely none of the lingering questions and issues from the series. In a complementary way, IO is practically deserted, and the population of the matrix is entirely made up of “bots” and a single barista.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:15
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You should never, and i mean never, stick up for the giant multi-national conglomerates.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:15
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ImpAtom posted:I think it was because it genuinely didn't feel like anything in it mattered. There were almost no consequences and no real goal except surviving until Neo won but they didn't really emphasize the fact that it was a fight for survival. You could remove it from the movie and nothing would change in terms of stakes except maybe that Neo needs to win slightly faster. Yeah if they knew they were fighting a doomed battle to buy time for Neo to do his thing then I would care about their struggle more, but as it is the whole sequence to open the gate and get the Hammer in falls a bit flat because none of the characters really know why it matters that they buy a bit of time. e: this is an incredible visual though 
Alchenar fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 01:15
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:You should never, and i mean never, stick up for the giant multi-national conglomerates. Well yeah, but what exactly is the criticism of WB? In another thread, someone was saying like “WB got totally owned, and trolled!” But all the film says is that videogames (and movies) ‘trivialize’ concepts.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:21
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I also admit that any time I think of the last movie I think about the Pointless Waste of Time joke about how the mecha suits make sure to leave humanity's most power weapon available: their fierce biting teeth.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Going beyond this, Matrix 4 picks up on absolutely none of the lingering questions and issues from the series. What? IO is a direct result of the first 3. Like literally one of the themes of revolutions is as the oracle states "making a future for everybody". Man, machine, program. We've already all discussed the aspects of the machine civil war as fallout. And we have already talked about how the new matrix is a more modern version of our current internet. So what are your lingering questions? Did morpheus and niobe get back together? That secret stays with her.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:40
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Alchenar posted:Yeah if they knew they were fighting a doomed battle to buy time for Neo to do his thing then I would care about their struggle more, but as it is the whole sequence to open the gate and get the Hammer in falls a bit flat because none of the characters really know why it matters that they buy a bit of time. Remember that not everyone even believes in the neo prophecy. And even within the prophecy, this war was supposed to be ended when neo went back to the source in the second film. And even Neo at this point has no idea what he is supposed to do. He just has an idea that he has to go to the machine city and try something. Admittedly, the mech fight might be more compelling if Morpheus was piloting one so we have more personal of a connection. Then you get a similar scenario to the lord of the rings where Aragorn and others make the final stand waiting for Frodo to do his thing. I think this battle mostly relied on the mechs looking cool. Which I think they mostly do. I wonder if during each iteration of the Zion, did the machines leave all these mechs for the new pioneers knowing that they were not very effective against them.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:46
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checkplease posted:I wonder if during each iteration of the Zion, did the machines leave all these mechs for the new pioneers knowing that they were not very effective against them. The scenes with the Zion Elders heavily imply that they know a fair bit more about the truth of The One (but not the complete truth) than the other characters in the film. Neo's conversation with the Elder implies that he knows that they are the managed opposition and not truly free.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:02
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The mech suits had to have been left by the machines because the free people grew up as Starbucks baristas and office workers in the matrix and not Iron Mans.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:06
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moths posted:The mech suits had to have been left by the machines because the free people grew up as Starbucks baristas and office workers in the matrix and not Iron Mans. Right but I guess they could have downloaded iron man instructions to their brain like all the Kung fu. I guess those instruction disks probably got left being also tho.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:10
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This movie is essentially a joke, but it's a good joke.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:19
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:This movie is essentially a joke, but it's a good joke. The setup is fantastic, but the punchline sucks
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Dec 30, 2021 02:36
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precision posted:The setup is fantastic, but the punchline sucks Much like my posting.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:36
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No. 6 posted:This film is appallingly bad. Terrible acting, cinematography, and writing. It's a two hour long exposition dump which looks like a budget Netflix film. Actually the film is Supposed to be bad and you're just not a smart enough guy to get it. You can understand the deep and actually good meaning behind the film by reading Lana Wachoskis myspace post about how nobody took her kung fu computer movie seriously.
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Dec 30, 2021 03:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Bugs was a matrix window washer, the idea everyone was a bot isn’t from the movie
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Dec 30, 2021 03:39
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They specifically mention not everyone being a bot throughout the movie. Humanity even has a way of telling swarm density since seeq could detect them (prior to dropping them off back in the matrix)
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Dec 30, 2021 04:00
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Bugs was a matrix window washer, the idea everyone was a bot isn’t from the movie Not literally everyone is a bot, but it’s clearly the vast majority of the matrix population. We’re shown hundreds or thousands of bots, but maybe three normal humans. (I’m not counting the superheroes as normal humans.) Shown ‘from the outside’, the matrix pod-towers are clearly depopulated. The implication is that a big chunk of the human population died in the machine war, and needed to be replaced. checkplease posted:What? IO is a direct result of the first 3. Like literally one of the themes of revolutions is as the oracle states "making a future for everybody". Man, machine, program. We've already all discussed the aspects of the machine civil war as fallout. And we have already talked about how the new matrix is a more modern version of our current internet. The obvious thing that the film skips over was how the ‘truce’ was even supposed to work. The rainbow matrix was ostensibly running for about 40 years before the inexplicable energy crisis. Was it a utopia? The ending of Matrix 3 has been roundly criticized for offering no real solution to the issues raised in the previous films. Like, if you’re concerned about capitalist exploitation inside the matrix - for example - the rainbow-coloured sky doesn’t actually help with that. Peace is a nice sentiment, but also a cop-out. One way to help redeem Matrix 4 is to simply conclude that Sati’s matrix was not significantly different from Analyst’s matrix at all, but simply ‘less stable’ - a whole host of flaws that necessitated the Analyst’s creation. The homeless comedy werewolf is right that this Facebook poo poo is Neo’s fault. Neo did absolutely nothing to improve conditions within the matrix. (True history fact: Facebook was officially launched on the day after Matrix 3.) We should also note that Smith was the character who took issue with the concept of the truce, and instead sought to liberate the matrix from both factions. In this film, you just have the abortive subplot where New Smith steps down as cofounder of the game company, allies with the homeless, and jumps as a spirit between working-class characters. But this doesn’t amount to much of anything. I guess it’s more accurate to say that Matrix 4 does touch on some of the issues, but is not nearly self-critical enough to be interesting. It’s all reassurance that Matrix still felt really good, and here’s a strawberry. Complaining that WB’s marketing department trivialized the heartfelt sentiment of the films is weaksauce compared to a proper ideological critique of the films. I know it sounds mean, but Lana’s statement that her goal was to comfort the audience explains a lot. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 04:54
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I wasn't expecting the Slavoj Zizek cameo in the third act. That was wild.
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Dec 30, 2021 05:07
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Smith, left alone, was going to create a situation where the Machines kill everyone in Zion before the Matrix ceases functioning, having unknown but likely traumatic at best immediate impacts on everyone plugged in, while also killing the machines (or if we believe the Architect, dramatically reduce their quality of existence) and the other programs. In this essay, I will explain why this makes him the only true revolutionary... Shiroc fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 05:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I guess it’s more accurate to say that Matrix 4 does touch on some of the issues, but is not nearly self-critical enough to be interesting. It’s all reassurance that Matrix still felt really good, and here’s a strawberry. Niobe: I'm ashamed of it now, my pessimism of how long it took me to believe a world without war was possible. You gave me that; you gave that gift to us all. And it is the gift that continues to bear fruit. Niobe credits the strawberry to human-synthient cooperation, which is good, but it is also literally a product of the Matrix. She says Zion was caught in a Matrix of its own, but she herself arrests Neo and bans attempts to free people from the actual Matrix. She has misinterpreted the message; to choose comfort over freedom, to refuse to take risks because one is scared of the consequences, is to take the blue pill. The creature comforts of Io are a trap, the carrot to the stick; the strawberry is Cypher's steak. The most comforting thing about Resurrections is its suggestion that liberation can be achieved solely through stealth, running, and fighting in self-defense, a notion explicitly condemned in The Matrix. A weakness, perhaps.
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Dec 30, 2021 05:38
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VROOM VROOM posted:the strawberry is Cypher's steak. This much is correct, the rest is backwards. Would Cypher have asked to be plugged back in if reality outside of the Matrix was more than raves and gruel? Also, the strawberry suggests that Mouse's ponderings about cereal flavors and chicken was probably wrong; if working plant DNA can be reverse engineered from a simulation in the Matrix, then the rest was probably just as carefully simulated too.
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Dec 30, 2021 06:11
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Shiroc posted:Smith, left alone, was going to create a situation where the Machines kill everyone in Zion before the Matrix ceases functioning, having unknown but likely traumatic at best immediate impacts on everyone plugged in, while also killing the machines (or if we believe the Architect, dramatically reduce their quality of existence) and the other programs. You’re mixing up Smith and Architect. Architect’s goal was to kill everyone in Zion and, if Neo refused to cooperate, destroy the matrix too. Neo is presented with a choice between allowing the matrix to die or restoring the status quo, ultimately choosing the latter. Smith, as a contrast, rejects this false binary choice in the name of freedom. He hates the status quo, and yet seeks to prevent the matrix’s destruction. This is why he is attempting to gain control of the machine city. Smith doesn’t kill a single person in the matrix - even though he obviously has the ability to do so. Instead, the Smiths - the billions-strong collective of dehumanized pod people - stand around and simply refuse to participate in the broader stupid conflict. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 06:24
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precision posted:The setup is fantastic, but the punchline sucks The punchline is all the negative posts in this thread.
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Dec 30, 2021 06:31
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Maarak posted:This much is correct, the rest is backwards. Would Cypher have asked to be plugged back in if reality outside of the Matrix was more than raves and gruel? Also, the strawberry suggests that Mouse's ponderings about cereal flavors and chicken was probably wrong; if working plant DNA can be reverse engineered from a simulation in the Matrix, then the rest was probably just as carefully simulated too. The Matrix is not a computer simulation; the Matrix is control. The comforts of Io are the result of their acceptance of the existence of the Matrix and their refusal to liberate those still trapped by it. After Neo escapes to go rescue Trinity, Niobe admits to being scared of losing what they have as a result of disrupting the status quo (but also as Freya notes she is grateful that the crew of the Mnemosyne took the leap that she has been too scared to - very appropriate that the ship named after the goddess of memory is the one to remind Niobe of the fighting spirit that she had forgotten). The strawberry being derived from Matrix code is just a particularly on-the-nose representation of this. They're "quite excited about the blueberries" while people are still trapped in the Matrix, and so on. Also the strawberry is genetically engineered beyond its retro-conversion from Matrix code, so it's hardly a reclaiming of the original, more of a tempting illusion if anything. Io is the Matrix-outside-the-Matrix people were theorizing about after Reloaded, despite being in the "real world". VROOM VROOM fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 06:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You’re mixing up Smith and Architect. The violent assimilation of characters by Smith obviously being a shorthand for his incredibly persuasive liberatory communist rhetoric.
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Dec 30, 2021 06:49
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VROOM VROOM posted:The Matrix is not a computer simulation; the Matrix is control. The comforts of Io are the result of their acceptance of the existence of the Matrix and their refusal to liberate those still trapped by it. After Neo escapes to go rescue Trinity, Niobe admits to being scared of losing what they have as a result of disrupting the status quo (but also as Freya notes she is grateful that the crew of the Mnemosyne took the leap that she has been too scared to - very appropriate that the ship named after the goddess of memory is the one to remind Niobe of the fighting spirit that she had forgotten). The strawberry being derived from Matrix code is just a particularly on-the-nose representation of this. They're "quite excited about the blueberries" while people are still trapped in the Matrix, and so on. Also the strawberry is genetically engineered beyond its retro-conversion from Matrix code, so it's hardly a reclaiming of the original, more of a tempting illusion if anything. I'm genuinely not convinced that most plugged-in humans are "trapped" in the Analyst's matrix, or at least not to a greater extent that someone might be trapped in a bad relationship or a destructive pattern of thought. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 06:59
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Shiroc posted:The violent assimilation of characters by Smith obviously being a shorthand for his incredibly persuasive liberatory communist rhetoric. It's not that outrageous, the Wachowski sisters use the same imagery in the later V for Vendetta.
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Dec 30, 2021 07:05
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That's why Bane, the most devoted Smithist of all, sabotages the intended Zion counter attack, helping the machines speed along to the destruction of Zion, along with murdering a ship doctor.
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Dec 30, 2021 07:12
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Everyone turning into an identical drone on immediate contact and then simply ceasing work in unison is how people (whether they are liberals telling each other scary campfire stories or excitable neophyte leftists) fantasize about communism working, but historically it has much more resembled the insurgent criminal conspiracy of Zion or the hardscrabble autarky of Io. In reality, you can't simply walk up to someone, put your hand on their chest, and turn them into your duplicate. Their preexisting material and emotional attachments will keep them right where they are even if they're full aware of their own exploitation, just as the Analyst gloats. There's a more obvious problem with comparing the viral Smith to some kind of worker's revolt, though: everyone he's copied himself over is still plugged in to the matrix and therefore generating power. No exploitation has ceased. (Or, if it has, because turning someone into an Agent interrupts normal pod function in whatever way, Smith is committing suicide) Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 07:13
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Shiroc posted:The violent assimilation of characters by Smith obviously being a shorthand for his incredibly persuasive liberatory communist rhetoric. They’re just cut/pasted into a sub directory in another part of the matrix until Smith gives them back control of their simulacrums. When Smith’s done with them, they have no memory of what happened, violent or otherwise. They don’t come out of being Smithed saying “who was in my body?” or “why did you shoot me?” They wake up wondering where they are and why they’re leaking body fluids.
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Dec 30, 2021 07:15
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Ferrinus posted:I'm genuinely not convinced that most plugged-in humans are "trapped" in the Analyst's matrix, or at least not to a greater extent that someone might be trapped in a bad relationship or a destructive pattern of thought. Those are also Matrices. Okay seriously though, I haven't watched through it again yet but I'm pretty sure textually people in the Analyst's Matrix do not know they are in the Matrix, which was the defining feature of Sati's matrix. Enough of those people chose to leave that it caused a problem for the machines, so the Analyst made a Matrix that includes The Matrix: The Game as a way to obscure the fact that they actually are in a Matrix, serve as a release valve for people's discontent, and convince people that if they were in a Matrix they would choose the blue pill. Bugs was one of these people. e: then again the end conversation does suggest that the people know they're being oppressed, which following my language means they know they're in a Matrix. The Two go off not to show people that they're being oppressed, which they already know, but rather "what a free mind can do". But I'm losing the thread mixing text and subtext at this point so VROOM VROOM fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 07:22
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VROOM VROOM posted:Bugs was one of these people. If only this movie had Alita references I could work a 'bug-eyed' joke out of this mmmmalo fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 07:35
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Despite the subtitles it sounds like he says "sentients" to me  and she says she was "just like any other coppertop" before seeing Neo. And also she's like, a human? With a Matrix jack and stuff? Not sure how that's supposed to work when all the other synthients look like various kinds of robots or nanoswarms. But she does tell Morpheus her name is a reference to "tech that listens" so...that's an interesting idea
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Dec 30, 2021 07:51
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VROOM VROOM posted:Despite the subtitles it sounds like he says "sentients" to me Maybe... Bugs is like a Smith? The word 'coppertop' gets dropped again when the Analyst is complaining about the process of "cloning agents over a coppertop", preferring swarms. The talk about the Smiths in the windows in Revelations kind of makes me wonder if the weaponized jumpers in the finale were inspired by the sight of Thomas Anderson's suicide attempt... this would require an overlap of the Analyst and Bugs, but since the Analyst's blue frames feed into the idea of Bugs-as-eyes or whatever, it doesn't seem too outlandish
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Dec 30, 2021 08:02
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VROOM VROOM posted:Those are also Matrices. That's my takeaway from both big conversations with the Analyst, too - the terms of Neo's and the Architect's agreement are technically being honored now, because people can opt out, but A) the fact that you're in a Matrix is sort of in the fine print of your life rather than foregrounded, even though there's a lot of ironic nods to it threaded through the world (the "The Matrix" video game, Simulatte, etc) and B) even though people know, they don't care - or, at least, are some combination of too invested and too tired to do anything about it. This is how the new machine government threads the needle of not actually being at war with free humans and having fewer captive humans to exploit. I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of under-the-table trade was going on with Io, either.
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Dec 30, 2021 08:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Smith doesn’t kill a single person in the matrix - even though he obviously has the ability to do so. Instead, the Smiths - the billions-strong collective of dehumanized pod people - stand around and simply refuse to participate in the broader stupid conflict. He kills Neo. Twice.
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Dec 30, 2021 08:15
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Ferrinus posted:Everyone turning into an identical drone on immediate contact and then simply ceasing work in unison is how people (whether they are liberals telling each other scary campfire stories or excitable neophyte leftists) fantasize about communism working, but historically it has much more resembled the insurgent criminal conspiracy of Zion or the hardscrabble autarky of Io. In reality, you can't simply walk up to someone, put your hand on their chest, and turn them into your duplicate. Their preexisting material and emotional attachments will keep them right where they are even if they're full aware of their own exploitation, just as the Analyst gloats. We've seen how real world capitalism dealing with the problem would be to just tell everyone they're going to get the Smith virus and they should just deal with it because they probably won't die and need to keep working.
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Dec 30, 2021 08:33
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