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slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Yikes.

I bet the remaining oil in the diff smelled pleasant.
Did you by chance have a slow leak? Hard to tell at the stage of catastrophic failure, but it could easily be lack of oil.

Is the axle OK?

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Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

BigPaddy posted:

Someone should let Mike Finnigan know since he sells Tshirts and Stickers for German Slur Rig University.

That and you have to pay to watch it as well as funding all Motortrends other crap.



um excuse me posted:

It needs to stated, considering there are people in this very thread who are unironically saying "You can't be racist to Germans" for various reasons like "they deserve it" and "WELL AKSHUALLY German isn't a race". Didn't think there were racists in AI, but one thing about racists is that they always seem to out themselves with very little coercion.

I just thought they were saying he ran a BMW driver school

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!

Darchangel posted:

This, exactly. I'd definitely invest in some lift-height jack stands if I didn't chuck the whole thing.


One of those rollers was damned near square...

I think its one of those square bearings that supposed to go in an axle thats on its side eh?

https://youtu.be/z5hZpjNZSp8?t=15

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


slidebite posted:

Yikes.

I bet the remaining oil in the diff smelled pleasant.
Did you by chance have a slow leak? Hard to tell at the stage of catastrophic failure, but it could easily be lack of oil.

Is the axle OK?

Oddly enough, it didn’t smell near as bad as I have previously experienced. Like, not great, but not very strong at all, and nowhere near the sulfurous Satans rear end in a top hat smell I expect. Might have been replaced with synthetic when the axle was done previously.

And no, the axle is grooved pretty badly. You *can* use a “repair bearing” that shifts the contact point of the bearing inward, but Len convinced me that was a bad idea. I was leaning that way anyway, if I’m honest. If I were truly bucks down, I’d have done it, but I can absorb the extra $100 to get a stock replacement axle.

Also: posting this from a Harbor Freight, where I’m picking up a slide hammer and bearing installer.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

That's an impressive pile of copper ... salts? carbonates? that I'm sure are supposed to be in a more metallic state.

I have no idea what I'm looking at, though.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

It was the heat exchanger for a domestic hot water boiler.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Lol tells you my age, I thought it was an old school auto cigarette lighter

tactlessbastard
Feb 4, 2001

Godspeed, post
Fun Shoe

Darchangel posted:

This, exactly. I'd definitely invest in some lift-height jack stands if I didn't chuck the whole thing.

God dammit, it's not a retro-turbo encabulator.

The basic problem, as I understand it, in the gear scenario above is that cycloidal gears are more difficult to make, and less tolerant of changes in clearances, primarily any change in spacing between the gears. Involute gears are more fault-tolerant, and easier to machine.
https://mechanicalengineering.blog/comparison-between-involute-and-cycloidal-tooth-profiles/


I just had my own mechanical failure. Feast your eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUVGwz4CYGo
(sound on, or it's not going to be interesting.)









One of those rollers was damned near square...

We had a noisy bearing at work a few months ago, too.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.

MRC48B posted:

It was the heat exchanger for a domestic hot water boiler.

More info necessary. Boiler size?

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


tactlessbastard posted:

We had a noisy bearing at work a few months ago, too.

Bought the slide hammer and got the race out today. Still waiting for all the parts I bought.
It wasn't even a crap bearing, I think? Koyo is OK, right?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Yeah, those are decent. My bet is poor install from the previous owner or the lack of oil did it in.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

Mr. Wiggles posted:

More info necessary. Boiler size?

second hand photo, but 500k btu. zero maintenance done since installation through 5 years of life. unit is also piped to heat domestic water directly, instead of treated water looped through a heat exchanger tank.
said domestic water was also not softened for at least a year. one of 4 units that serve a 15 story commercial/residential building.

units got rode hard, put away wet. surprise, they broken now.

if you look close you can see one of several pinhole leaks in the back pissing water. the center is where the metal mesh burner goes (natural gas)

Unrelated equipment failure:

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Darchangel posted:

Bought the slide hammer and got the race out today. Still waiting for all the parts I bought.
It wasn't even a crap bearing, I think? Koyo is OK, right?

I remember those axle bearings that shifted over for a new bearing seat. They're not terrible but also not ideal. A good used axle is probably better, all things equal.

Koyo is fine. Well respected Japanese company. I'd probably rate them around the same level as NTN/NSK.

Interesting story somewhat related, and if you're not in the bearing industry you'd probably never know (or care).

Most people have heard of Torrington/Fafnir bearings I presume? The Torrington division was most famous for "needle" type roller bearings.

Well, a few years ago Timken decided to purchase them (Torrington/Fanir). Part of getting approval from the government was they had to sever the needle/roller bearing division, so Koyo actually bought them separately. So if you want a "Torrington" needle bearing now, chances are decent it's going to be a Koyo.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Quit breaking stuff, AI, and come play The Sheep Game! (click here to play today!)



We're just under two weeks to the deadline of December 20th to get your Sheep Game entries in, and so far we are way down on entries compared to normal - the last two years we've had over 60 participants, this year we are on track for less than 40...this is disappointing AI, we can do better than this! Come take part in this end of the year tradition and have a little fun with your fellow posters, as we've done for the last seven years!

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

slidebite posted:

I remember those axle bearings that shifted over for a new bearing seat. They're not terrible but also not ideal. A good used axle is probably better, all things equal.

Koyo is fine. Well respected Japanese company. I'd probably rate them around the same level as NTN/NSK.

Interesting story somewhat related, and if you're not in the bearing industry you'd probably never know (or care).

Most people have heard of Torrington/Fafnir bearings I presume? The Torrington division was most famous for "needle" type roller bearings.

Well, a few years ago Timken decided to purchase them (Torrington/Fanir). Part of getting approval from the government was they had to sever the needle/roller bearing division, so Koyo actually bought them separately. So if you want a "Torrington" needle bearing now, chances are decent it's going to be a Koyo.

I work for Schaeffler and if you ever get an opportunity to take a bearing factory tour it is insanely trippy to see how fast the needle sorting machines bin those rollers into grades that are 2μm apart on the OD

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


https://i.imgur.com/WZxUUgV.mp4

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde

oh hey, I have a picture almost exactly like this from my old job. Those high efficiency boilers are great, until they aren't. Extremely intolerant of hard water, we didn't even get 18mos out of ours lol. The bigwigs didn't want to pony up for the proper water treatment equipment for it so, welp.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005


Just another boring Tuesday at the shop.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
flumesday

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


https://i.imgur.com/WqZ1BK8.mp4

hah, and you thought he was gonna roll it

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
Mmm, home grown time again.







please ignore the bad driving, I have like an hour total driving time in the car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pujp31QDr8E

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
oooooof

drat that sucks! seems like it looks really twitchy when you're putting power down on corner exit...does it need a better differential? maybe the new gen transmission will be a better option instead of replacing the old one with a used unit?

Malpenix Blonia
Nov 27, 2004

Do I spy a broken shift fork? That’s not normal, is it?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Oooof.

My bet is the shift fork is collateral damage from the shafts suddenly flexing apart as the teeth overran each other while breaking off. That's a pretty tough break dude. If you plan to reuse any of the parts definitely check the shafts for runout and the housings to make sure the bearing bores are still round.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

BraveUlysses posted:

oooooof

drat that sucks! seems like it looks really twitchy when you're putting power down on corner exit...does it need a better differential? maybe the new gen transmission will be a better option instead of replacing the old one with a used unit?

Yeah, that is what I am trying to sort out. The thing slides when you look at the throttle, I was hoping I could get it figured out at this event but it was not to be. It has an osgiken diff already.

I thought about what you're talking about doing, the new transmissions are like $2k from a dealer and are supposed to have strengthened 3rd and 4th gears. A used first gen box is somewhere between $200 and $600 so I'm kinda thinking about buying two of them and sending one off to Jack's Transmissions to be built. We will see what I can find.

There are gearsets by PPG and PAR but they start at like $5k lolno

Malpenix Blonia posted:

Do I spy a broken shift fork? That’s not normal, is it?


kastein posted:

Oooof.

My bet is the shift fork is collateral damage from the shafts suddenly flexing apart as the teeth overran each other while breaking off. That's a pretty tough break dude. If you plan to reuse any of the parts definitely check the shafts for runout and the housings to make sure the bearing bores are still round.

I think kastein is right too :) This will just be a piece of garage art, I think. Seems like there is damage to basically everything, unfortunately. That's how it goes!

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



https://twitter.com/smooth_salad/status/1473121204437409800

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Would it be easier to dig out the chunk of rubber that got shot down the pipe, or to just cut the pipe out and weld in a new one?

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Shoot it back out with hydraulic pressure.


Pneumatic if youre feeling extra saucy

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



A seasons "gently caress you" to the engineers who spec pumps like the above. the twinned volute means you don't have isolation for each pump, which is great when the seal pops a leak, because now you either shut off both pumps (the only heat for the building), or run one and dump treated water down the drain (and hopefully not into the space below)

these only make sense if the most likely failure mode is motor failure, and even then you still have to isolate and drain in order to change motors because the shaft is usually part of the seal until you get large enough for a coupler.

these are not two pumps, they are one pump with two motors.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
I agree, and I'm kind of surprised you didn't also post that in the HVAC thread that I'm now nearly 400 posts behind on. Or maybe you did and I haven't seen it yet. Who knows, not me.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

What a moronic system. I would be jumping through mental gymnastics to make a case for that....like a very specific size envelope.

Grundfos all the way for heating pumps imho

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I noticed something odd about the Alfa Romeo parked around the corner.



The opposite tire was nearly bald and had several tears forming in the sidewall. I love seeing morons trying to be penny-wise with their $300,000 supercars :allears:

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

kastein posted:

I agree, and I'm kind of surprised you didn't also post that in the HVAC thread that I'm now nearly 400 posts behind on. Or maybe you did and I haven't seen it yet. Who knows, not me.

I leave the hvac thread for goon help.

this thread seemed more appropriate for complaining about bad mechanical design, which i would say is a type of failure.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

slidebite posted:

What a moronic system. I would be jumping through mental gymnastics to make a case for that....like a very specific size envelope.

Grundfos all the way for heating pumps imho

the only answer I can think of is it saves you from making 8 more piping connections, thus is cheaper to install, while still being notionally "redundant"

the model I was working on also had ECM motors (or at least 3phase with built in VFDs, didn't really look at the electrical), so with a disconnect that's also less expensive, because those are also easier than mounting a drive + bypass on a wall somewhere.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

MRC48B posted:



A seasons "gently caress you" to the engineers who spec pumps like the above. the twinned volute means you don't have isolation for each pump, which is great when the seal pops a leak, because now you either shut off both pumps (the only heat for the building), or run one and dump treated water down the drain (and hopefully not into the space below)

these only make sense if the most likely failure mode is motor failure, and even then you still have to isolate and drain in order to change motors because the shaft is usually part of the seal until you get large enough for a coupler.

these are not two pumps, they are one pump with two motors.

Let me tell you a story.

Aircraft piston engines use magnetos for ignition. Almost always two of them. As long as the prop is turning, there is spark; No electrical system required. On engines since time immemorial, this was accomplished with two separate mags, driven by two separate shafts. This was good.

I’m the mid seventies, Cessna was building a lot of airplanes. A gently caress-ton of airplanes. Coincident with this was the market demise of 80/87 avgas, and a new wing on the 172 which provided better short field and climb performance, but at a drag penalty. The suits got together, looked at all of these factors, and decided that if everyone was going to have to burn 100LL, they might as well burn it in an engine that won’t immediately foul the plugs at idle, and pick up a little power while they’re at it. Maybe even enough to get back to our old cruise speed numbers, even with the new wing. Simultaneously, we can have Lycoming simplify the engine, making it cheaper to build, and increase our margins. Cost-engineering is the new way forward! Blowjobs and bonuses were had all around.

New for 1977, the Cessna 172N was powered by the Lycoming O-320H2AD; This engine was full of failure innovation. First, it used a new magneto (which is the part related to MRC48B’s nightmare above) which uses a single integrated drive coupling to power two magnetos. Simple! Cheap! Single point of failure! My favorite is the AD for when the pins on the flyweights of the impulse coupler fail, sending pieces of pin and flyweight down the magneto drive shaft tunnel and into the crankcase, where they do what metal chunks do in an engine.



What could go wrong?

The fun part was only just getting started though. Lycoming also decided to cost-engineer the valve train on the H2AD. Knowing that flat-tapper lifters are sensitive little shits and have a penchant for lunching themselves after a lifter or cam lobe gets a tiny little speck of corrosion on it, Lycoming reduced the lifter diameter and cam lobe width. This drastically increased the loading on the contact area between lifter and cam, resulting in frequent wiped cam lobes and mulched lifters. Owners were frequently having to split the case halves on engines with less than 300 or 400 hours to perform valve train surgery. A zinc additive was mandated through Airworthiness Directive, and a larger lifter was retrofitted by numerous operators, but the damage was done. Most H2ADs are no longer overhauled and reinstalled, but are replaced with later model engines with an STC.

That got long quick. Apologies.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

MRC48B posted:

the only answer I can think of is it saves you from making 8 more piping connections, thus is cheaper to install, while still being notionally "redundant"

the model I was working on also had ECM motors (or at least 3phase with built in VFDs, didn't really look at the electrical), so with a disconnect that's also less expensive, because those are also easier than mounting a drive + bypass on a wall somewhere.

I think electric motor failures account for like 10% of pump failures I've experienced, with another 10% being badly installed couplings that munched themselves. It's usually water- side bearing failure, cavitation induced impeller failure or mech seal failure.

Content: I wish I had pictures of the 200 hp twin-screw blower I got to watch start smoking and glowing red recently. The dudes that own it claimed that we misdiagnosed the smoke pouring off it, and it was just "oil mist" from the breather cap falling off, so we tried running it again, and I got to to watch it blow the breather caps off the oil sump and start glowing cherry red through a FLIR when we tried running it again.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran



I, too, love incredibly mis-diagnosed failures. When there's a box of coils from failed contactors in the parts bin, PERHAPS, just MAYBE it's not the coils that constantly fail, and there's no reason to keep those bits around.

Also, a wonderful quote: "I'd never change, or hell, even CHECK the oil in a gearbox. The motor will burn up WAY before the oil ever fails." :psyboom: Yeah, dude. The reason the motor burns is because the oil hasn't been checked nor changed in five years and the gearbox siezes.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

MrYenko posted:



What could go wrong?

And then someone thought that having two vacuum pumps with the same driveshaft also sounded like a good idea.

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Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
I don't even think you can get those dual mags rebuilt anymore. Continental bought the Bendix magneto business and decided to not support a product line used exclusively in competitor's engines. Another kick in the dick to those poor assholes who bought one.

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