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feeling this
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Dec 30, 2021 20:01
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I usually have a related but opposite problem, of blocking for characters who are confident. They’re not going to be stuffing their hands in their pockets, or fidgeting, or playing with their hair, or chewing their nails etc. so unless I give them something specific to DO in the scene I’m always like… they make themselves confortable and then ?????
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Dec 30, 2021 22:00
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Just make everything they do extra. Full on hip thrusts and the like
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Dec 30, 2021 23:23
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:I don’t know, isn’t it better to struggle to keep up with your characters (as indicative of effusive ideas for them) than to struggle where to drag them next? I know I’m interpreting a bit, but I’d almost rather too much than too little (yes, I can see how this is ironic and/or fitting). My favorite is when characters are too competent, and they resolve conflicts too quickly and sensibly instead of launching into the exciting set piece I wanted. "Shouldn't we just call the cops?" NO SHUT UP AGH
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Dec 31, 2021 00:26
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Valdor the Magnificent Bastard began twirling his elegantly waxed moustache. It was impossible to figure out how he did it without using his hands, always with the same unmoving grin, and yet the moustache kept going round and round and round
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Dec 31, 2021 00:48
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This stuff sucks. Writing is tough enough without this self-inflicted meme-y angst. The best thing anyone can do is stop looking at this kind of "content."
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Dec 31, 2021 09:17
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kaom posted:I usually have a related but opposite problem, of blocking for characters who are confident. They’re not going to be stuffing their hands in their pockets, or fidgeting, or playing with their hair, or chewing their nails etc. so unless I give them something specific to DO in the scene I’m always like… they make themselves confortable and then ????? overblocking makes stuff read like fanfiction. you don't need to be constantly describing their actions, or if you do feel comfortable cutting it later. also, a little: Milkfred E. Moore posted:This stuff sucks. Writing is tough enough without this self-inflicted meme-y angst. The best thing anyone can do is stop looking at this kind of "content."
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Dec 31, 2021 09:44
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sebmojo posted:overblocking makes stuff read like fanfiction. you don't need to be constantly describing their actions, or if you do feel comfortable cutting it later. Yeah, the Terrible Secret of Blocking is that writing is not a visual medium, and readers will generally assume sensible blocking even if it's not described. You don't have to spell out every time your character picks up or puts down an object, keep track of where everyone is in the room, and such unless it's actually important to the character somehow, or to the structure of the scene (if you're writing an action sequence in a cluttered office where people start sitting across a desk from one another, yeah, you're probably gonna have to block that). A lot of blocking is really just sort of "sketch writing," filler stuff you put in as a first draft to jog your brain, and seb is right that you should often cut it if it's not actually carrying any characterization weight. I also agree with Milkfred that this sort of meme-y focus on characters as their own "actors" isn't useful. This stuff reinforces the idea that writing is a magical process of evoking muses and watching them get up to their adventures which you can't control, and... that's really not what it is. It's work! It can be frustrating work and feel overwhelming at times, but you're always in control, and you have to just roll up your sleeves and do it. Block out the scene if you have to. Overwrite with tons of blocking if it gets it straight in your head, then edit later. Barf words and then clean it up.
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Dec 31, 2021 10:16
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The notion of characters writing themselves irritates me almost as much as ‘I am a professional LIAR.’ I understand the appeal of memes since they often generate discussion but I’ve found most of the posted ones reductive and/or wrong (thinking of that pain one in particular.)
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Dec 31, 2021 16:26
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I've enjoyed the memes.  Since there's not much discussion to be had.
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Dec 31, 2021 16:32
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:This stuff sucks. Writing is tough enough without this self-inflicted meme-y angst. The best thing anyone can do is stop looking at this kind of "content." This tbh What a character’s doing with their hands or whatever isn’t important unless it tells the reader something critical to the story, like their emotional state, so who gives a poo poo how many times they pick up a coffee cup and put it down. Most readers sure don’t Edit: though I once had a character count how many times they noticed another character slugging back a cup of tea and putting it down because they were being drugged and a critical clue was when they blanked on that and the other character’s actions started being all out of order kaom posted:I usually have a related but opposite problem, of blocking for characters who are confident. They’re not going to be stuffing their hands in their pockets, or fidgeting, or playing with their hair, or chewing their nails etc. so unless I give them something specific to DO in the scene I’m always like… they make themselves confortable and then ????? To answer this more seriously, you’re good on this. It’s totally fine to have a character stride confidently into the room and, once that’s established, just have them sit the gently caress still while you focus on dialogue or whatever Action beats are overrated. Yeah, a few are nice to set the tone, but writing every action a character does after every line of dialogue because you’re avoiding the word “said” or whatever—that’s a stylistic choice. It’s not the one and only way to write When writing in first person, I mostly don’t give a poo poo because what’s important is only what my narrator notices, so every single action beat is chosen carefully for effect and they’re sparse enough to have impact rather than filling the page with the endless noise of people fidgeting or poo poo Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 16:37
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Fletch by Gregory MacDonald is a good book to read if you want to see how to do pages of nothing but dialogue.
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Dec 31, 2021 16:42
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Antivehicular posted:writing is not a visual medium...You don't have to spell out every time your character picks up or puts down an object, keep track of where everyone is in the room, and such unless it's actually important to the character somehow I struggle with this and facial expressions - documenting each and every glance, hint of surprise, etc. it's bad!
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Dec 31, 2021 17:02
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:I don’t know, isn’t it better to struggle to keep up with your characters (as indicative of effusive ideas for them) than to struggle where to drag them next? I know I’m interpreting a bit, but I’d almost rather too much than too little (yes, I can see how this is ironic and/or fitting). Stuporstar posted:Action beats are overrated. Yeah, a few are nice to set the tone, but writing every action a character does after every line of dialogue because you’re avoiding the word “said” or whatever—that’s a stylistic choice. It’s not the one and only way to write
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Dec 31, 2021 17:24
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ultrachrist posted:The notion of characters writing themselves irritates me almost as much as ‘I am a professional LIAR.’ I really dislike this too because people use it so often to distance themselves from their writing decisions. Just admit you wanted your characters to gently caress.
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Dec 31, 2021 17:52
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newts posted:I really dislike this too because people use it so often to distance themselves from their writing decisions. Just admit you wanted your characters to gently caress. Ah yes, because what the writer wants and what the characters desire always line up 100% of the time. There are no reluctant heroes who don't want to go on this epic fantasy quest.
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Dec 31, 2021 18:32
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The writer either wants to write about a reluctant hero or they do don't IMO. If they write an enthusiastic hero that they feel is pulling towards reluctance, they're identifying that they haven't set up a compelling motivation, which they can either lean into or go back and change.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:04
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HIJK posted:I've enjoyed the memes. While I don't particpate in writing memes or, whatever the heck this is, I do enjoy that when a character decides to do something it flows well. That's usually because the writer has set it up, where we know enough about the character desires, know enough about the world, and have a sensible suspension of disbelief, to tag along with their decision. Some might call it "The character writing themselves" but I think it's just good writing. I think your post is from tumblr, and while it's not my cup of tea, I don't see the problem in a writer celebrating making progress on their work.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:26
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newts posted:I really dislike this too because people use it so often to distance themselves from their writing decisions. Just admit you wanted your characters to gently caress. It's a ridiculously common experience for characters and stories to go off in directions that surprises the author or isn't what the author planned. Every single fiction writer alive has talked about this. I have experienced this. I'm not trying to say they're reaching out from the astral plane or whatever but you just have to go through any transcribed conversation with an author to run across them talking about how characters and stories often seem to have a life of their own. This is well documented outcome of a creative process that we don't understand very much, please stop making GBS threads on it. DropTheAnvil posted:I think your post is from tumblr, and while it's not my cup of tea, I don't see the problem in a writer celebrating making progress on their work. All of the meme posts have been silly and jokey posts about writing with some unironic enthusiasm rolled into them. People relate to writing in different ways and it feels kinda bad for someone to come in and telling the thread to stop "consuming this content" as if it's somehow bad or as if it's going to ruin discussion when we don't even talk about actual writing in here right now. (I am aware that this thread ebbs and flows in activity, that's why I appreciate people posting silly relatable writing memes.) Like if users don't enjoy the silly tumblr joke posts then just post something substantial instead. Ask for critique. Ask a technical question. Start a general discussion. Have sex or smoke some pot. HIJK fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 19:26
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HIJK posted:
I’m not exactly making GBS threads on it, but pretending your characters are separate people is silly. There’s nothing to understand: plans/moods/inspiration/ motivations might change as you write, especially if it’s written over a long span, and you can either go with it or course correct. The memes are fine. I just get tired of seeing this particular one over and over again. newts fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 19:39
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If nothing else I'm glad that what I'm doing is generating Discussion and Interest.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:45
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Anyone with an ounce of creativity has experienced “wait no, what if THIS happened instead?” without a clear idea of where the ‘this’ came from. That’s just writing/directing/painting/whatever. Mysticizing this is kind of weirdly self-aggrandizing and can propagate the myth of writer as effortless creative font. It’s not a big deal at all, but I think that’s the grating part that some people like myself feel.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:47
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Thanks to everyone for the advice on blocking, I appreciate it  Going to have to convince myself that it’s actually okay to go many dialogue exchanges without any updates on what a character is doing. I know once I flip into editor mode I’ll delete it anyway, so if I can just convince myself not to write it in the first place that will save a lot of time.I find it so much easier in short form fiction honestly, because every action or lack of action carries so much weight - once I’m writing something longer it starts being hard, because at a certain point you’re not revealing base character anymore you’re just repeating yourself. I need to keep in mind that the focus should really be on emotional change. newts posted:plans/moods/inspiration/ motivations might change as you write, especially if it’s written over a long span, and you can either go with it or course correct. Yeah this has been my experience. There’s a lot of discovery in my writing process, so I’m frequently surprised by the direction things are taking, but I have options to respond to that. In one case where the romance element wasn’t working, I gave one character a radical personality shift until it did. In another case the romance wasn’t a plot critical element, so when I decided the characters didn’t have chemistry I just dropped the romance angle entirely (because I otherwise liked the way things were going). I think this happens when your character’s traits/motivations don’t line up to your outline the way you expect them to. Which is obviously going to be the case when you run into this moment mid-stream: ultrachrist posted:“wait no, what if THIS happened instead?”
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Dec 31, 2021 19:58
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Which of these are you? I'm definitely a #2 type: I'll explain my magic system, my cosmology, maybe the government if I deem it necessary but otherwise? PFFFT.
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Dec 31, 2021 20:19
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HIJK posted:All of the meme posts have been silly and jokey posts about writing with some unironic enthusiasm rolled into them. People relate to writing in different ways and it feels kinda bad for someone to come in and telling the thread to stop "consuming this content" as if it's somehow bad or as if it's going to ruin discussion when we don't even talk about actual writing in here right now. (I am aware that this thread ebbs and flows in activity, that's why I appreciate people posting silly relatable writing memes.) Sorry if I upset ya, was just adding my thoughts, and for what it's worth I don't mind memes being posted. Junpei posted:Which of these are you? #2 as well, though it bites my rear end when I get further into longer pieces. At some point when writing I realize a fantasy worldbuilding element plays an important part in the story, and have to make sure that I understand the element, and have explained it. I think Sanderson talked about this before. He wants the reader to be able to figure out how the characters use magic/world to solve their dilemmas, so his magic system has to have rules and limitations that the reader understands. This was contrasted against Lord Of The Rings' magic system which focuses more on being magical and mystical, rather than having clearly defined rules and limitations.
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Dec 31, 2021 20:28
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Junpei posted:Which of these are you? #2 because I want the story more 8) DropTheAnvil posted:Sorry if I upset ya, was just adding my thoughts, and for what it's worth I don't mind memes being posted. It's okay. I feel defensive about it I guess HIJK fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 21:01
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Junpei posted:Which of these are you? #1, which is why I never loving get anything done plot-wise and all my "stories" end up as tabletop settings instead! Never go full #1.
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Dec 31, 2021 21:28
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Ugh. Where's option #3, which is "I hate worldbuilding but I also hate handwaving everything with 'magic'"?DropTheAnvil posted:I think Sanderson talked about this before. He wants the reader to be able to figure out how the characters use magic/world to solve their dilemmas, so his magic system has to have rules and limitations that the reader understands. This was contrasted against Lord Of The Rings' magic system which focuses more on being magical and mystical, rather than having clearly defined rules and limitations. It's Sanderson's First Law: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/sa...%20some%20time. quote:An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic. It's really just an anti-deus ex machina writing guideline. I don't think magic systems need to be as extensively defined as Sanderson's tend to be (i.e. magic as science) for it to be used to solve conflict; it more depends on the level of foreshadowing involved. Like the ending to Wurtz & Feist's Empire trilogy is clearly based on a religious miracle that we don't really understand, but I buy it because it was well foreshadowed so I didn't feel cheated when I read it about. Contrast that to the end of the Lightbringer series which had a similar religious miracle that made me seriously mad to the point where I wanted to throw my Kindle out the window.
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Dec 31, 2021 22:33
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A few meme posts here and there are okay. I personally don't like them, unless they lead to a more productive discussion. In this case that's what's happened, so in the end it's a net positive imo. who made that old post in the last thread about having a character cutting their fingernails, just cutting them and cutting them through the whole scene to create a sense of both progression and urgency
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Dec 31, 2021 22:44
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Hiya. I've written a book that I'm looking to send off to agents soon, and I'm hoping I could get some feedback on this synopsis. It's an urban fantasy, but hopefully that's clear anyway  quote:Tom Bailey is one of Unit 13’s field agents. Actually he’s just maternity cover, but he’s trusted to investigate ghosts and witches and other low level threats that they don’t want to bother the real field agents with (or bill them for). It’s meant to be a do-nothing assignment for Tom - the reported sightings are never real ghosts, anyway. But something’s upset the spirit world, and the hauntings are turning out to be horribly real.
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Jan 1, 2022 11:40
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Jan 1, 2022 23:14
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FightingMongoose posted:Hiya. I've written a book that I'm looking to send off to agents soon, and I'm hoping I could get some feedback on this synopsis. It's an urban fantasy, but hopefully that's clear anyway "Actually he's just maternity cover" is a good hook imo. This line took me a few tries to parse: "Just as well for Tom, since when the sudden influx of ghosts turn out to just be a prelude for the rising of a greater daemon, Martha is one of the few people with the know-how to fight him." "Since when" is an awkward segue; "people with the know-how to fight him" should just be "people who know how to fight him"; and "him" is a bit ambiguous whether it refers to the daemon or Tom. I'm not sure what it means that the son "revels in playing both sides off against each other". Are the two sides the witches and the Unit 13, or the Unit 13 and the daemon, or...? The last line is tautological (he also has himself for help?) although it's probably good to circle back to the theme of bureaucratic comedy. I don't know this genre very well, but to me the whole thing sounds a bit generic? Is there a unique angle that your book has that others don't? The stuff about being a temp worker in a government bureaucracy is the most unusual thing that pops out to me. It has been done in the Laundry Files of course but not quite in the same way. Perhaps you could emphasise that aspect more? I'm also intrigued by the nepotistic bullshit implied by "since her son also works at Unit 13 she manages to stay one step ahead". Hope this helps 
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Jan 2, 2022 00:49
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FightingMongoose posted:Tom Bailey is one of Unit 13’s field agents. Actually he’s just maternity cover, but he’s trusted to investigate ghosts and witches and other low level threats that they don’t want to bother the real field agents with (or bill them for). It’s meant to be a do-nothing assignment for Tom - the reported sightings are never real ghosts, anyway. But something’s upset the spirit world, and the hauntings are turning out to be horribly real. Starting sentence needs to be changed. I don't know what Unit 13 is, and it doesn't matter. What does matter, and more importantly gets my interest, is he is a maternity cover. This sounds humorous, and the following text supports that. One thing I'd add is stakes. No character desires/wants are set, and no stakes are set, so why does it matter that haunting are turning out to be horribly real? FightingMongoose posted:Martha Taggart is a witch. Tom should have arrested her and brought her in, but since her son also works at Unit 13 she manages to stay one step ahead. Just as well for Tom, since when the sudden influx of ghosts turn out to just be a prelude for the rising of a greater daemon, Martha is one of the few people with the know-how to fight him. After all, she’s fought him once before. I don't think your declarative starts are helping you (I.E: Martha Taggart is a witch). All the interesting details come after the introduction, so get rid of the introduction. This 2nd paragraph is also the clunkiest, as the only interesting thing about Martha is... she's fought a demon before? Also the "She's fought him once before" is unclear on which Him we are referring to. What is this paragraph supposed to do? FightingMongoose posted:So when it comes to stopping the daemon and saving the world, rather than the crack team of field agents that Tom might have hoped for, instead he has Martha, her depleted coven of witches, and her son, who revels in playing both sides off against each other. Oh, and also himself, and whatever he still has left in his mission budget after covering his travel expenses. That's a lot of words to say Tom is unprepared to fight this threat. Worse of all it raises a lot of questions like "Why doesn't Tom ask for help?" and "Is Tom stupid?". The tone in this paragraph sounds more humorous, rather than threatening as well. I don't think this synopsis does much for you. It lacks character traits, desires and stakes. It describes a rather generic urban fantasy setup, but I like that I am seeing hints of humor.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:12
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It’s me, the goon who has no idea what a maternity cover is.
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Jan 2, 2022 02:29
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Fate Accomplice posted:It’s me, the goon who has no idea what a maternity cover is. I hadn't heard the exact term before but I assumed it meant a temporary job covering someone on maternity leave. In Aus we would just call it "a maternity leave position". So yeah, probably worth clarifying that if it's a culture-specific phrase.
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Jan 2, 2022 02:47
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Fate Accomplice posted:It’s me, the goon who has no idea what a maternity cover is. It's when someone is shooting at you, so you duck behind some pregnant ladies, hoping that your assailants aren't assholes enough to keep shooting. You can tell how horrifying daily life in UK is by the fact that they actually have a special term for this.
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Jan 2, 2022 02:48
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I wrote a piece for a Christmas exchange last month and this happened to me three times. Go back at least a full paragraph.
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Jan 2, 2022 04:29
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I do that a lot so I've developed a habit of restarting paragraphs but leaving the old one on the screen until I'm done, to make sure I'm not missing any of the details. Have I forgotten to delete the duplicate paragraphs several times? Who can say.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:06
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For any given project I have a scrap document where i save the text from deleted sections. I just knocked half a chapter off my novel and it feels good! But it's nice to have the deleted text on hand in case there was a detail or turn of phrase that I can still use. It's interesting to go back through my scrap words and see the funky ideas I had while drafting.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:19
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Sitting Here posted:For any given project I have a scrap document where i save the text from deleted sections. I just knocked half a chapter off my novel and it feels good! But it's nice to have the deleted text on hand in case there was a detail or turn of phrase that I can still use. It's interesting to go back through my scrap words and see the funky ideas I had while drafting. Oh hey I read a thing about doing this! 
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Jan 2, 2022 06:21
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