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Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
Dark Souls is the best at turning people into snarling rabid beasts when someone says DS2 is their favorite or whatever, you know who you are.

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Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.



Judge Tesla posted:

Dark Souls is the best at turning people into snarling rabid beasts when someone says DS2 is their favorite or whatever, you know who you are.

Gascoigne was right; beasts really do be all over the shop.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

DS2 owned and is deffo better than DS1 and Demons.

Can't go back to those games after the improvements to movement Bloodborne added though. 3 lacks a lot of stuff from 2 I liked but it just feels so much better to play.

Clip-On Fedora
Feb 20, 2011

Judge Tesla posted:

Dark Souls is the best at turning people into snarling rabid beasts

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

no im pretty sure thats bloodborne

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

A Sometimes Food posted:

DS2 owned and is deffo better than DS1 and Demons.

Can't go back to those games after the improvements to movement Bloodborne added though. 3 lacks a lot of stuff from 2 I liked but it just feels so much better to play.

Let's not say things we can take back: Demon's Souls might the jankiest but it still has the best world design of them all.

Roobanguy
May 31, 2011

i loving love ds2 (dark souls 2)!!!!!

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Oxyclean posted:

Eh, I think DS1 estus works fine from the perspective a new player who might not realize they can just get 15-20 chugs at every bonfire, and even then, it's just that "easy mode is already built it" stuff grogs get mad about when you suggest a difficulty select wouldn't hurt the game.

Estus is by no means perfect across the games, but blood vials just feels like a step back - having to stop and grind out vials because you end up using them faster then you're getting them, sucks. Maybe they could have had a system where the first 10 each life were free to better work with the "you always get 10" when you have none?

Since the Souls talk is still going, I'm just going to note that I think the blood vials and estus have kind of inverse problems. When you're new, running out of blood vials in Bloodborne sucks. You don't know you should be banking vials with leftover blood echoes, you don't know a good way to get more fast, and you'll inevitably hit a boss who chews through you enough times that you need to take a farming break. That's all not very fun.

When you're good or experienced with Bloodborne, you don't use vials as much, tapering off the need to farm. And when you do, you might have some chalices unlocked, or the hacked chalices, or just progress a sufficient way into the game to get to an easy farming spot you only need to run once to get blood echoes for more.

Meanwhile with Dark Souls (especially 1 and 3, I feel) you start out with a fair amount and it's fairly paced for level progression and boss runs, at least up through 10 chugs. Newbies could maybe use 15, but by the end experienced players don't really "need" that many. They become band-aids for sloppy play, and that's not necessarily bad. But it does mean a boss who by all rights should've beat you into the ground a few more times until you could understand how to properly dodge or counter them, you instead can just heal through. DS2's life gems cause a similar issue (which is also related to DeS' healing grass problem) where you can cart around 99 of them and overheal on everything.

I felt like Sekiro was too stingy with healing to start with, but honestly they might have been right to cap you forever at 10 gourd chugs, 3 healing pellets, and a handful of rare emergency heals. That plus the very firm cap on how much health and posture you can get means you really have to focus on avoiding damage, particularly on iterative play throughs or charmless runs where you take chip damage on mistimed parries.


Anyway, to bring this back around, a delightful thing happened during the first Nioh 2 stream. Paige made Pat a beautiful little charcuterie plate of cheeses and fruits. Then Zangief threw all his toys somewhere he couldn't reach so that Pat would stand up to get them. And then....


https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudDeadBillM4xHeh-Dfwe2eKqXx0WLn6z

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Dec 30, 2021

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:
lol Pat forgot to turn on his rebroadcast for several hours cause he was waiting in the wings to help Rebb (Space Mom from Warframe) finish FFXIV Endwalker

Flubby
Feb 28, 2006
Fun Shoe
I've replayed Dark souls 1, 2, and 3 in order as lead up to Elden Ring and I can say, with them fresh in my mind, 1 2 3 is the order of how good they are, imo. The first one is the most jank, yes, and it has Izalith, but you can't beat that interconnected world. It's just an amazing design and I almost wish they never bothered with bonfire teleporting. It's not necessary. 2 feels the most like some kind of classic rpg campaign with all its hidden walls and methodical combat. It's a slower game. The builds are fantastic. There's some poo poo in there. Enemies turning to face you and rotating with no animation. The fire lizards are the worst enemy they've ever put in a souls game. 3 is much faster with the combat and prettier, but it's also a slog. It has the most bullshit of the three of them, easily. The swamp leading up to Farron's Keep is a nightmare, and I'm the type that loves areas like Blightown and The Gutter.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

MonsieurChoc posted:

Let's not say things we can take back: Demon's Souls might the jankiest but it still has the best world design of them all.

Honestly I kinda liked DS2's aesthetic more. I felt like Demons leant a bit too much on Berserk.

Or do you mean purely level design wise? That I'd give to Bloodborne.

BrownThunder
Oct 26, 2005

EXTEND BEN!
Forever and ever and ever

Holy poo poo 70 new posts and it’s all souls fans my goodness

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009
love those aesthetics

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Drangleic castle is cool

Coquito Ergo Sum
Feb 9, 2021

Flubby posted:

I've replayed Dark souls 1, 2, and 3 in order as lead up to Elden Ring and I can say, with them fresh in my mind, 1 2 3 is the order of how good they are, imo. The first one is the most jank, yes, and it has Izalith, but you can't beat that interconnected world. It's just an amazing design and I almost wish they never bothered with bonfire teleporting. It's not necessary. 2 feels the most like some kind of classic rpg campaign with all its hidden walls and methodical combat. It's a slower game. The builds are fantastic. There's some poo poo in there. Enemies turning to face you and rotating with no animation. The fire lizards are the worst enemy they've ever put in a souls game. 3 is much faster with the combat and prettier, but it's also a slog. It has the most bullshit of the three of them, easily. The swamp leading up to Farron's Keep is a nightmare, and I'm the type that loves areas like Blightown and The Gutter.

Yeah, I'm with you on 123 as the ranking. I still think all of the DS games are good, but 3 is the lowest for me because of the lack of variation in builds and the dull visuals. Somersaulting my way through grey castles, grey towns, grey ruins, or grey caves is less appealing than having the ability to be an armored shithouse wandering through the varying DS1 and 2 locations.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Perfect Potato posted:

love those aesthetics



To be fair, that huge painting in the second image gives you a lot of curse damage when you go near it, it's a huge troll.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

BrownThunder posted:

Holy poo poo 70 new posts and it’s all souls fans my goodness

Hey, rude, I post here too.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

If Liam starts talking more about how great FFX-2 is rest assured I will bring that stuff to our door.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


X-2 is great

Coquito Ergo Sum
Feb 9, 2021

Dawgstar posted:

If Liam starts talking more about how great FFX-2 is rest assured I will bring that stuff to our door.

What if he tries to say that Mighty No. 9 is good?

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Dawgstar posted:

If Liam starts talking more about how great FFX-2 is rest assured I will bring that stuff to our door.
When was the last time Liam talked? Has he made any videos since October? I've almost forgotten he exists.

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 30, 2021

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Grouchio posted:

When was the last time Liam talked? Has he made any videos since June? I've almost forgotten he exists.

One back in October. It was shockingly easy to check, I guess your job must have a youtube filter up or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zriM2Rfnrg

Otherwise, I assume Liam is out there just touching an obscene amount of grass right now.

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

RareAcumen posted:

One back in October. It was shockingly easy to check, I guess your job must have a youtube filter up or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zriM2Rfnrg

Otherwise, I assume Liam is out there just touching an obscene amount of grass right now.

He went back to school and now working in gamedev IIRC. Even considering that it's gamedev he's probably in a way less stressful position right now.

UnderFreddy
Oct 9, 2012

GEGENPOSTING

Grouchio posted:

When was the last time Liam talked? Has he made any videos since October? I've almost forgotten he exists.

he's focusing on his university and game creating career, instead of doing youtube/twitch stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k

Andrast posted:

X-2 is great

Incorrect.

Was. :smug:

7c Nickel
Apr 27, 2008
https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidOnerousSoymilkPicoMause-aAKQKOPICnK_y3Ex

May have to watch this playthrough if this is the kind of reactions it's producing.

Navaash
Aug 15, 2001

FEED ME


I'm a little late to the Nioh discussion but this is my two cents. Disclaimer, I didn't watch any of the Pat streams.

Nioh is a good game. Nioh 2 is a great game.

They are TERRIBLE games to play on a stream blind the first time if you don't already have some kind of familiarity with the systems.

As many people have said, the loot doesn't matter all that much in Normal (* of the Samurai) difficulty as long as you keep your gear on-level. However, the first time playing through, you don't necessarily know this. This is complicated by the fact that you don't have your entire moveset available to you at first and that you have to complete weapon-specific challenges as the game progresses to unlock everything, for each weapon type.

Also that some missions are traps (thinking Warrior of the West in 1 and Chinese Bellflower Dagger in 2) that will kick your rear end over and over unless you have some level of systems mastery or you go back to them when you're overleveled.

This only applies to the non-DLC content in each game. In 1, the DLC will beat your rear end over your head unless you go to NG+ and get ilvl 150 Divines across the board to even the odds a bit, and even then Shigezane, Masamune, and Maria are absolute bastards of bosses. In 2, the DLC is much more fair in that you don't have to go farm gear in NG+, but even at the end it slogs a bit since the final main mission in DLC3 is significantly higher level and if you don't know to Daion-jin's Sake before fighting Nightmare Bringer, the tri-elemental attacks will probably flatten you.

I can honestly get why he dropped it, but it's its own thing. The criticism of the game being mission-based though is comical seeing as how Demon's Souls is mission-based, but whatever.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Navaash posted:

I'm a little late to the Nioh discussion but this is my two cents. Disclaimer, I didn't watch any of the Pat streams.

Nioh is a good game. Nioh 2 is a great game.

They are TERRIBLE games to play on a stream blind the first time if you don't already have some kind of familiarity with the systems.

As many people have said, the loot doesn't matter all that much in Normal (* of the Samurai) difficulty as long as you keep your gear on-level. However, the first time playing through, you don't necessarily know this. This is complicated by the fact that you don't have your entire moveset available to you at first and that you have to complete weapon-specific challenges as the game progresses to unlock everything, for each weapon type.

Also that some missions are traps (thinking Warrior of the West in 1 and Chinese Bellflower Dagger in 2) that will kick your rear end over and over unless you have some level of systems mastery or you go back to them when you're overleveled.

This only applies to the non-DLC content in each game. In 1, the DLC will beat your rear end over your head unless you go to NG+ and get ilvl 150 Divines across the board to even the odds a bit, and even then Shigezane, Masamune, and Maria are absolute bastards of bosses. In 2, the DLC is much more fair in that you don't have to go farm gear in NG+, but even at the end it slogs a bit since the final main mission in DLC3 is significantly higher level and if you don't know to Daion-jin's Sake before fighting Nightmare Bringer, the tri-elemental attacks will probably flatten you.

I can honestly get why he dropped it, but it's its own thing. The criticism of the game being mission-based though is comical seeing as how Demon's Souls is mission-based, but whatever.

Funny enough, it took me significantly more attempts to do in Shigezane than it did for Masamune, I think I first try'd Masamune even, just beating him down with I think it was spear and tonfa.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

It only took me 13 tries to defeat the Warrior of the West in 1 and man when I finally beat him I had rarely felt so accomplished in my life.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011

This woolie matrix 4 bit is hard to get a bead on because on the one hand a Matrix sequel being bad is very believable but on the other hand it sounds a lot like how he talks about TLJ.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Rody One Half posted:

This woolie matrix 4 bit is hard to get a bead on because on the one hand a Matrix sequel being bad is very believable but on the other hand it sounds a lot like how he talks about TLJ.

The matrix 4 is very good. With no spoilers it is a movie about trying to resurrect (ha) the ideals and hopes and dreams of the original film in the modern era while fighting the both the destruction of that meaning through mimetic representation of those that misunderstood it and abused it and the atomization of human connection in the modern era. The whole film is every bit as schmaltzy and saccharine as the climax of the first film where Trinity's love revives Neo and turns him into the one with her kiss while also being incredibly focused on its disgust with the way the world has turned out since that first kiss and the ending of 3.

It is exactly what a Matrix sequel needed to be but it's not the sequel that nerds would have wanted after decades of enshrining all the wrong bits about what the originals were saying. The end of the opening act/prologue is a character presenting someone with the choice of pills and outright says (paraphrasing) "But this isn't necessary. You know. The choice between truth and a lie isn't a choice at all." and this is a bit New Morpheus, who's making the decision, hits over and over and that extends out into the greater narrative and what the antagonists plans are and what this new matrix even is. That this world of constantly repeating banal suffering, day in day out, hopeless and filled with ethereal comforts we can barely cling to where we're so disconnected from one another that we can never ever close that distance is the lie and the problem. And you cannot let it stand.

Movie's loving great. Actions not as good as the originals but it's not really trying to focus on the fights as much as the originals for...reasons I laid out.

ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 31, 2021

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Deep cringe on what the studio tried to pull with Jet Li though.

https://twitter.com/MinovskyArticle/status/1475137705134768138

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

RareAcumen posted:

Deep cringe on what the studio tried to pull with Jet Li though.

https://twitter.com/MinovskyArticle/status/1475137705134768138

Oh yeah definitely.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Rody One Half posted:

This woolie matrix 4 bit is hard to get a bead on because on the one hand a Matrix sequel being bad is very believable but on the other hand it sounds a lot like how he talks about TLJ.

I got the impression that Woolie only saw the Matrix as pure action movies and the deeper messages weren't that important, which is fine, you don't have to engage 100% with stuff if you just want to see the cool fights.

So I can see why he was left scratching his head over the new film which doesn't really care about the legacy the audience has built up and is perfectly happy to do whatever it wants even if that means getting trashed by people who came purely to see Neo fight Agent Smith again.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011

It was funny hearing him say "oh yeah and this has something to say about Lana and Lily transitioning too!" while blatantly missing that the original movie was also about that.



the red pill was always loving premarin

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008
He likes it because Rage Against the Machine and this one has a cover instead so he doesn't like it you know it to be true

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Rody One Half posted:

It was funny hearing him say "oh yeah and this has something to say about Lana and Lily transitioning too!" while blatantly missing that the original movie was also about that.



the red pill was always loving premarin

He never followed up on that sentence, he just tossed it out there and moved on which felt like a cop out.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Honestly the Matrix discussion was at least less obnoxious than hearing Pat talk about how much he wants the royal family of England to all die and his childlike glee at the Queen potentially dying soon.

That was straight up ghoulish and he even recognised it as such before doing it.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Lord_Magmar posted:

Honestly the Matrix discussion was at least less obnoxious than hearing Pat talk about how much he wants the royal family of England to all die and his childlike glee at the Queen potentially dying soon.

That was straight up ghoulish and he even recognised it as such before doing it.

Monarchy sucks and Queen Elizabeth has done some ghoulish poo poo in her reign too, tbf.

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Ches Neckbeard
Dec 3, 2005

You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!
Man gently caress that useless pedo protecting silver spoon. Sooner she dies the sooner prince Andrew gets boned.

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