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Dolphin posted:No ethical vegetarians are not all failed vegans. If the vegetarian is avoiding beef because they are against killing cows then they are mistaken if they still consume dairy. The dairy is the veal and low quality meat industry. If the vegetarian is avoiding chicken because they are against killing chickens then they are mistaken if they consume eggs. Male chicks produced by the egg industry are blended up alive. Do you see any ethical concerns with dog breeding leading to health complications? There's a similar issue with cows and chickens so even at square one we have a problem. Dolphin posted:Instantly If you are a coward and don't want to watch then just try to imagine how quickly you die from a knife across your throat. It's not instant.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:07
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Tulip posted:Honestly a big benefit of the vegan movement's existence as a collective action is that you can see immediately which people will never, ever be helpful. If someone is aggrieved by the suggestion that they literally do nothing in the service of reducing outrageous harm to those they have power over, how much do you think they're going to do for you when there's an actual strike or fight?
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Jan 2, 2022 00:10
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Tulip posted:Honestly a big benefit of the vegan movement's existence as a collective action is that you can see immediately which people will never, ever be helpful. If someone is aggrieved by the suggestion that they literally do nothing in the service of reducing outrageous harm to those they have power over, how much do you think they're going to do for you when there's an actual strike or fight? Agreed. People always like to think that given the choice they would have not been pro-slavery or a nazi if they were in those historical contexts but then you see a very simple and obvious choice they can make to mitigate a huge amount of real demonstrable harm and they refuse. They just take the path of least resistance and continue to ignore this atrocity. Dolphin posted:That's a pretty big assumption about people that disagree with you on ethics. Extremely vegan. You're literally arguing for animal abuse! Stop doing mental gymnastics to justify cutting an animal's throat when alternatives exist.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:10
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DrBox posted:Agreed. People always like to think that given the choice they would have not been pro-slavery or a nazi if they were in those historical contexts but then you see a very simple and obvious choice they can make to mitigate a huge amount of real demonstrable harm and they refuse. They just take the path of least resistance and continue to ignore this atrocity.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:11
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DrBox posted:If the vegetarian is avoiding beef because they are against killing cows then they are mistaken if they still consume dairy. The dairy is the veal and low quality meat industry. quote:If you're serious and not a coward watch Dominion. It's a documentary that shows standard industry practices. These animals are not killed instantly and therefore are not compassionately killed by your definition.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:12
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Dolphin posted:These are all issues that are not inherent to consuming animal products but with the practices involved in many factories. Which is my argument about tomatoes. The points about the lifespan and health complications from breeding will happen regardless of a backyard situation or factory farm. All those animals usually go to the same slaughterhouses as well. Dolphin posted:I don't watch documentaries, they're universally full of poo poo. It's just footage of the killing floor. You should see what you are arguing in favor of. DrBox has issued a correction as of 00:17 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 00:15
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DrBox posted:You're literally arguing for animal abuse! Stop doing mental gymnastics to justify cutting an animal's throat when alternatives exist.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:16
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DrBox posted:It's just footage of the killing floor. You should see what you are arguing in favor of.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:17
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Dolphin posted:You're doing mental gymnastics by arguing that I think throat cutting is a good slaughter method and that I have Nazi proclivities because I disagree with you. Dolphin posted:You're operating under the mistaken assumption that I've never physically been inside a meat processing plant. Then why bring up the point about killing them instantly if you know that's not what is going on? Slaughter houses are not compassionate and the animals die in fear and pain.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:20
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DrBox posted:No I am saying you are going along with the social norm despite being able to see the harm as most people do. They accept that the current culture and tradition is an indicator of morality and fight to keep the status quo. quote:Then why bring up the point about killing them instantly if you know that's not what is going on? Slaughter houses are not compassionate and the animals die in fear and pain. People can disagree with you despite possessing the same facts as you.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:26
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Dolphin posted:That's a pretty big assumption about people that disagree with you on ethics. Extremely vegan.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:33
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Tulip posted:About as big as assuming I'll get wet when I jump in the shower.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:34
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Dolphin posted:That's not what I'm doing though. If you eat eggs and dairy you are still supporting these same industries and companies just like the vegetarian thinking you're doing right by the cows. Dairy cows are not lovingly treated or get to retire to an idyllic farm. Maximum resources are extracted and they are sent to the same slaughterhouse as the beef cows. Their corpses are sent to the same processing facilities. Even if the animals were treated well through their lives I would not support a bolt gun to the head and a knife across the throat. I consider killing an animal harming them, just like I would for a dog or cat or even a human despite arguments like this turning me into a huge misanthrope. Taking the life of a sentient being that desires to live when you can simply do otherwise is wrong and I'm tired of seeing people try to argue it isn't just for taste, tradition or culture. Dolphin posted:Nah, it's just stupid moral gatekeeping. I am not saying I am the supreme arbiter of all morality. I'm not perfect. On this specific issue though the vegan argument is the more morally consistent one.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:35
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One underrated benefit of veganism is how deeply triggering my existence is to certain weirdos. I'm trolling without even trying.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:36
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DrBox posted:If you eat eggs and dairy you are still supporting these same industries and companies just like the vegetarian thinking you're doing right by the cows. Dairy cows are not lovingly treated or get to retire to an idyllic farm. Maximum resources are extracted and they are sent to the same slaughterhouse as the beef cows. Their corpses are sent to the same processing facilities.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:42
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Dolphin posted:Nah, it's just stupid moral gatekeeping. 
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Jan 2, 2022 00:42
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DickParasite posted:One underrated benefit of veganism is how deeply triggering my existence is to certain weirdos. I'm trolling without even trying.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:42
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DickParasite posted:One underrated benefit of veganism is how deeply triggering my existence is to certain weirdos. I'm trolling without even trying. It's really funny how many weirdos this thread has brought out. This is the nth time dolphin has tried to own the vegans itt.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:43
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Dolphin posted:Nah, it's just stupid moral gatekeeping. A bloo bloo bloo all I did was publicly state my desire to harm innocents and now people believe me a bloo bloo bloo
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Jan 2, 2022 00:43
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Dolphin posted:You don't really have any moral high ground. You're taking an arbitrary stance that the exploitation and abuse of human animals is inevitable and impossible to avoid while selecting your produce while arguing that animal husbandry and such are so morally objectionable that you avoid any and all products with the slightest connection to non-human animal use. Food production is almost universally abusive to humans but vegans don't really talk about that or have prohibitions about it. You just choose to protect the fuzzy things while railing that the rest of us are Nazis for not agreeing with your ideology. Once again: I am not pro human abuse. That is also an issue. Do you go to a BLM march and start yelling about child tomato slaves? You can choose to not support animal abuse AND not support other bad things at the same time. Dolphin posted:I don't think most people give a poo poo what you eat so long as you're not obnoxious about it. I would not give a poo poo what you eat either if there wasn't a victim involved. DrBox has issued a correction as of 00:49 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 00:44
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DrBox posted:I would not give a poo poo what you eat either if there wasn't a victim involved.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:46
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Dolphin posted:So about those bananas, So tell me what food I should aim for and I'll take the advice. Steak and bacon are not valid answers to "How do I reduce my contribution to slavery at the grocery store?"
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Jan 2, 2022 00:49
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Well you see, no ethical consumption under capitalism means Iam completely free of moral responsibility.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:50
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I like supporting my local vegan bakery - their service sucks but their products are delicious 
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Jan 2, 2022 00:58
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DrBox posted:So tell me what food I should aim for and I'll take the advice. Steak and bacon are not valid answers to "How do I reduce my contribution to slavery at the grocery store?" DickParasite posted:Well you see, no ethical consumption under capitalism means Iam completely free of moral responsibility.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:58
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Dolphin posted:As far as I know seasonal local vegetables are the safest bet. I wouldn't tell you what to eat though, it doesn't matter to me and it doesn't really make any difference because voting with your wallet doesn't work. Oh gently caress off. You were talking about slave tomatoes and how you don't buy factory farmed meat because of the plight of the workers, then you post that?
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Jan 2, 2022 01:09
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DrBox posted:Oh gently caress off. You were talking about slave tomatoes and how you don't buy factory farmed meat because of the plight of the workers, then you post that? 
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Jan 2, 2022 01:10
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wynott dunn posted:I like supporting my local vegan bakery - their service sucks but their products are delicious Yeah this is a great time to be vegan. So many restaurant and bakery options. Also vegan clothing is going main stream too.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:12
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i didn't know you guys ate clothes
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Jan 2, 2022 01:13
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I'm going to become vegan just so I can be smug and self-righteous for a good cause instead of just doing it for free
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Jan 2, 2022 01:26
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Dolphin posted:My personal war on factory farms makes zero difference I just do it anyway The argument from futility is so boring and also really hosed up the more serious situations you apply it to. "Me not participating in X isn't going to solve the X problem." sounds really dumb when X = Murder/Rape/Misogyny/Slavery/Child abuse.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:26
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Still haven't really heard any explanation as to how not eating tomatoes doesn't separate you from child slavery, but just because an animal would be killed to produce it, buying a steak isn't anything at all to do with the morality of the chain that produced it. How much of your war on factory farming is in spite of you purchasing meat from factory farms?
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Jan 2, 2022 01:37
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DrBox posted:
Also I fundamentally don't understand why leftists think institutions should address things like climate change or deforestation if they (the individuals) can't be arsed to give up certain conveniences. The demand leads the supply.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:39
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DickParasite posted:Also I fundamentally don't understand why leftists think institutions should address things like climate change or deforestation if they (the individuals) can't be arsed to give up certain conveniences. The demand leads the supply. Yeah. People want widespread change but also don't want to be personally negatively impacted in any way. Easier to blame the system and ignore your own complicity. All these larpers calling for guillotines while ignoring those under their own boot.
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Jan 2, 2022 02:03
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DrBox posted:Yeah. People want widespread change but also don't want to be personally negatively impacted in any way. Easier to blame the system and ignore your own complicity. All these larpers calling for guillotines while ignoring those under their own boot. This isn't the reason I became a Maoist Third Worldist but it's definitely a good example of it. The most likely result of humane policies in US food is a middle class shift to outright fascism as has happened a hundred times before, effectively unopposed because the liberals would be fully on board with purges and slave camps to keep prices down as the leftists are hunted down in between posts about being worried about personal liberties or some stupid bullshit
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Jan 2, 2022 02:55
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some plague rats posted:I'm going to become vegan just so I can be smug and self-righteous for a good cause instead of just doing it for free ye it's good do recommend
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Jan 2, 2022 03:32
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dolphin hanging around outside a church trying to convince born-again converts that their tightly held religious beliefs are wrong, somehow confused that they aren’t listening
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Jan 2, 2022 03:46
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Wheeee posted:dolphin hanging around outside a church trying to convince born-again converts that their tightly held religious beliefs are wrong, somehow confused that they aren’t listening make one argument to justify your disgusting lifestyle challenge Hashy has issued a correction as of 04:04 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 04:01
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why would i bother doing that
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Jan 2, 2022 04:52
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Wheeee posted:dolphin hanging around outside a church trying to convince born-again converts that their tightly held religious beliefs are wrong, somehow confused that they aren’t listening More like dolphin hanging around the dog park trying to convince people kicking puppies is actually ok, somehow confused that they aren't listening. DrBox has issued a correction as of 05:13 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 05:10
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