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Weka posted:How the heck is she coming to the conclusion that these masks were used for "the hiding and transformation of identities"? that's, uh, the usual purpose of a mask
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Jan 2, 2022 01:31
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MonsieurChoc posted:For those who don't get the ref (read Asterix): Even though the department I studied in didn't touch Roman stuff, proudly Prehistory only, the head of department, who was an Iron age specialist, bought a bunch of Asterix books for our library since the background research and images of bits of material culture are so drat good.
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Jan 2, 2022 02:30
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Jazerus posted:that's, uh, the usual purpose of a mask why do you hate science
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Jan 2, 2022 02:40
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Some Guy TT posted:why do you hate science I could probably work through this. Definitely gonna try. A mask in a ritual context is a context in which one is either ritually impersonating or trying to embody a diety? So, the folks carrying that stuff out, at that point in time especially, are probably not doing so cynically. This isn't some culture understood as a mollified and corrupt priestly temple economy situation. The performer would probably invest themselves into the role as they understood it, such that they attempt to inhabit the entity they pose as, in their thoughts, action, behavior, and ritual performance? So, they're mentally giving everything they have into inhabiting this diety conceptually, and in a sense it does happen, they likely take on characteristics they do not have with the mask off, may exhibit personality that is absent outside these contexts, and the transformation may more or less become a complete act by the time they are skilled at what they're doing? That's how my mind interprets the statement, absent any further insight/info
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Jan 2, 2022 02:45
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i was making a very dumb covid joke but thanks for your sincere reply and i mean that sincerely
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Jan 2, 2022 02:48
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Jazerus posted:that's, uh, the usual purpose of a mask A mask can also be used to identify someone more easily, particularly from a distance. It could be used to stress the identity of say a religious figure or chief. Consider the mycenean funerary masks. Riot Bimbo posted:I could probably work through this. Definitely gonna try. Again, there is next to no evidence for this. What evidence could we possibly have for 9000 year old religious practices and beliefs such that we could say something like this? It may not have a religious purpose at all, maybe it was used like a greek theater mask. Heck, it's not even certain this thing is a mask. It may be intended to hang on a wall or pole.
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Jan 2, 2022 03:11
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vOv I was just working through how to rationalize that statement. The person who said it may be able to bring reciepts, I can only infer based on information and knowledge about extant religions and ritual performance generally. Afaik she posted nothing that can even indicate it's a ritual mask, but what she's saying can work in a context that's plausible even if she's unlikely to, as I said, have reciepts to back that claim
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Jan 2, 2022 03:32
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EmptyVessel posted:Even though the department I studied in didn't touch Roman stuff, proudly Prehistory only, the head of department, who was an Iron age specialist, bought a bunch of Asterix books for our library since the background research and images of bits of material culture are so drat good. Hell yeah, it's also full of jokes about history as taught to french kids when the authors grew up.
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Jan 2, 2022 04:15
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Could be for putting on the back of your head so you don't get attacked by animals. 
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Jan 2, 2022 04:19
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Ardent Communist posted:Could be for putting on the back of your head so you don't get attacked by animals. or by perfidious proto-scythians
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Jan 2, 2022 04:35
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gently caress this made me very angry
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Jan 2, 2022 06:23
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Ardent Communist posted:Could be for putting on the back of your head so you don't get attacked by animals. magpies are too smart for this lol
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Jan 2, 2022 07:11
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mycomancy posted:gently caress doubly mad because i've thought about this as a kid and the only answer is an undergrad chemistry textbook edit also jousting sports almanac
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Jan 2, 2022 07:12
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Riot Bimbo posted:vOv I was just working through how to rationalize that statement. The person who said it may be able to bring reciepts, I can only infer based on information and knowledge about extant religions and ritual performance generally. Afaik she posted nothing that can even indicate it's a ritual mask, but what she's saying can work in a context that's plausible even if she's unlikely to, as I said, have reciepts to back that claim I don't think it's possible. Gimbutas' work is a good example I feel on this. She pinpointed the origins of the proto indo European people using archeology and linguistics and her prediction has since been backed up by genetic evidence. This is one huge fact and until the genetic evidence was still somewhat contentious but afaik more popular than competing theories. She has also talked about the non-patriarchial nature of pre-PIE civilization along the Danube and based this mostly on statuary and pottery. This work has been heavily panned as being unsupported by the evidence. There's just no way to look at archaeological evidence and make such particular and detailed claims about people's beliefs so far before writing.
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Jan 2, 2022 07:41
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i say swears online posted:doubly mad because i've thought about this as a kid and the only answer is an undergrad chemistry textbook
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Jan 2, 2022 09:49
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i say swears online posted:doubly mad because i've thought about this as a kid and the only answer is an undergrad chemistry textbook only acceptable answer is a family size bag of flamin hot cheetos cool ranch doritos also could work in a pinch but im telling you flaming hot cheetos wouldve saved the french at agincourtt
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Jan 2, 2022 12:30
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:only acceptable answer is a family size bag of flamin hot cheetos flamin hot agincourt cool ranch crécy refreshing sluys
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Jan 2, 2022 12:40
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i would take a replica buster sword so when all the medieval knights want to sword fight me i can kick their asses
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Jan 2, 2022 15:35
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How much time do we have to get this "object" made? Because you could get a really high quality suit of armor and trick everyone into thinking you're nobility. That's if you're playing the game to live comfortably, not to improve the trajectory of history.
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Jan 2, 2022 16:58
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My objective would be to live comfortably
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Jan 2, 2022 17:12
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im suprised at all the goons that dont understand masks. we are using masks right now. reregging is just putting on a different mask
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Jan 2, 2022 17:23
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Weka posted:I don't think it's possible. Gimbutas' work is a good example I feel on this. She pinpointed the origins of the proto indo European people using archeology and linguistics and her prediction has since been backed up by genetic evidence. This is one huge fact and until the genetic evidence was still somewhat contentious but afaik more popular than competing theories.  Gimbutas cherry-picked the evidence she used and approached it's interpretation with a huge, distorting agenda lens. Knowing exactly what you want to find before looking at the evidence is really, really bad prehistorical practice. Yeah some of it definitely has value as interesting thought-experiments to stimulate discussion and she might have been right on a few broadbrush things, or even for very specific localised (spatial and temporal) examples, but as a whole no. Every dunghill has the possibility of diamonds after all. I even own "Goddesses and Gods" and "Civilisation" and there are some decent things in them, great illustrations of the artefacts she chooses to use as evidence for example. But there are too many lacunae - the "pre-Kurgan" evidence for conflict in Old Europe being a major one, there are what are probably mass-wargraves (multiple individuals with evidence of trauma all piled into a single large hole) from during what she claims was a peaceful, gynocentric wonderland. Her interpretation of artworks is also problematic in it's insistence on seeing everything as supporting her ideas if you just squint hard enough. Basically: Weka posted:There's just no way to look at archaeological evidence and make such particular and detailed claims about people's beliefs so far before writing.
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Jan 2, 2022 17:59
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Ghostlight posted:i'd take the voynich manuscript to complete the loop Speaking of, I recently read something speculating The Voynich Manuscript is an (encoded) Semitic-language translation of The Nabatean Agriculture. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t, I suppose it’s as plausible as any other theory. As for The Nabatean Agriculture, it sounds fascinating. According to Wikipedia, it’s a 10th century book about agriculture, magic, and astrology. The author (Ibn Wahshiyya) based it on some 5th or 6th century writings, which in turn were probably based on something out of the Mediterranean because some of the info is for Mediterranean crops, but he lived in what is now Iraq. Ibn Wahshiyya decided the source material was too dry, so rather than do a straight translation, he decided to jazz it up by mixing folklore in from time to time. The agricultural information was relied on in the Arabic world until the 18th century. A full translation into English apparently does not exist. Bob Socko has issued a correction as of 18:38 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 18:27
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EmptyVessel posted:
You're critiquing her later work on the Danube culture, right, not her stuff on the kurgan culture? It's all very well to say 'why not do it this way' but if you look at modern society or basically any society we have good records of, there is a bunch of stuff that's not rational and is counter intuitive. Arguments that boil down to 'it seems weird to me that someone would do this' are pretty weak, particularly for stuff this old.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:25
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venus of willendorf funko pop
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Jan 3, 2022 10:22
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new history of humanity is extremly badass, rip graeber and good job wengrow.
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Jan 3, 2022 14:36
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doing my work today and noticed that the bogus ivermectin and bleach remedies of the antonine plague were injections of various poisonous drugs administered by snakeoil salesmen claiming they had the cure to whatever smallpox precursor people were dying ofdio posted:A sickness occurred greater than any I have known—in fact, two thousand often died on a single day in Rome. Many people were also killed in another way, not only in the city, but throughout practically the whole Empire, by evil men: for they would smear little needles with some deadly drugs and for a fee would inject the poison into others
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Jan 6, 2022 00:58
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Suplex Liberace posted:new history of humanity is extremly badass, rip graeber and good job wengrow. still working my way through it but agree, good stuff so far
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Jan 6, 2022 01:41
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Real hurthling! posted:doing my work today and noticed that the bogus ivermectin and bleach remedies of the antonine plague were injections of various poisonous drugs administered by snakeoil salesmen claiming they had the cure to whatever smallpox precursor people were dying of powdered emerald and sapphires pop up a lot and are my absolute favorite piece of medieval hokum
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Jan 6, 2022 02:10
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:only acceptable answer is a family size bag of flamin hot cheetos i see the portal to the past closing and i, thinking quickly, grab a bag of cool ranch doritos and hurl it with all of my strength bullseye, just in time  your welcome*yawn* yeah, i would have used the family size flamin hot cheetos if i had the time but i didn't. i had to act.
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Jan 6, 2022 05:07
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I'd simply bring all my modern diseases back with me. Past people were assholes.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:07
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Nosfereefer posted:I'd simply bring all my modern diseases back with me. Past people were assholes. wiping out the golden horde with HPV
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Jan 6, 2022 20:36
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Real hurthling! posted:doing my work today and noticed that the bogus ivermectin and bleach remedies of the antonine plague were injections of various poisonous drugs administered by snakeoil salesmen claiming they had the cure to whatever smallpox precursor people were dying of That Dio quote was supposedly about people murdering random strangers with poisoned needles; kind of like the precursor to the 'razor blades in Halloween apples' scare.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:10
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for hire? sweet gig
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Jan 6, 2022 21:14
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https://mobile.twitter.com/archeohistories/status/1479108957973073922 somewhere mike pence gets an erection and doesnt know why
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Jan 7, 2022 20:09
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anyone have a good book or podcast they can recommend on the Sack of Rome, 1527? I heard about it on a podcast some time last year and I can't remember which one, but the stuff about mercenaries taking the city sounded pretty wild
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Jan 7, 2022 21:34
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Are you thinking of The Verge by Patrick Wyman? I haven't read it, but he did the leftist podcast circuit to promote it back in July.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:46
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one pope's quest for a Vatican renovation caused a military conflagration of europe and the reformation its a p sweet story
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Jan 7, 2022 22:15
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im more of a fan of the time the french king kidnapped the pope, and also the resulting papal chaos
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Jan 7, 2022 23:07
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two separate lines of popes is completely insane, and both are obviously illegitimate. let's elect a third one
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Jan 7, 2022 23:30
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