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david_a posted:As someone with a dirty US drivers license, what struck me most the few times I’ve driven in Sweden are how claustrophobically narrow the roads were and that everybody used their turn signals (what a concept). I’ve mostly driven in very, very southern Sweden though, a lot of the roads don’t even have center lines. If that stressed you then welcome to drive in winter. Roads are even narrower and you can't tell road markings because snow.
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Jan 1, 2022 16:37
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People have touched on it already but a huge difference is how godawful American road design is - don't hate the player, hate the game. You'd think they'd be good at it because they have so much of it, but no, it's the opposite (and frequently they have too much of it precisely because they're bad at it). The intersections have already been mentioned, but there are more problems. They build very broad and straight roads everywhere, even in dense urban environment, and when (surprise, surprise) everyone drives really loving fast on those roads they put up a speed limit sign that nobody's going to pay attention to and let the cops cash in on speeding tickets. Then there's the endemic "stroad" (street/road), a huge throughfare that nevertheless has entrances and exits from side streets and businesses every one hundred meters or so. Roads simply aren't designed this way in Sweden. People roll their eyes at nollvisionen for being unrealistic, but the fact is that it's been enormously successful, because it embodies the absolutely correct realization that most traffic accidents are preventable via better road design. If you want a lot of accessible nerding out about this, check out Not Just Bikes on YouTube, he's got an entire series about contrasting American awfulness with how things are done in the Netherlands (they have a lot of the same basic ideas but have taken them even farther and they're ahead of us). Here's a one minute intro, and if that piques your interest take a look at the episode about "stroads": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGOBOw9s-QM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM If you'd rather read, a good book is Confessions of a Recovering Engineer by Charles Marohn. At this point I mostly just feel bad for making fun of Americans though, it's like kicking a puppy. My one remaining joy is making fun of their military - no mercy there. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 1, 2022 |
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Jan 1, 2022 16:43
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vuk83 posted:80 km/h On main roads. 130 km/h on motorways.
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Jan 1, 2022 17:08
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KozmoNaut posted:On main roads. 130 km/h on motorways. Unless it's still 110! That's always fun.
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Jan 1, 2022 17:29
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david_a posted:As someone with a dirty US drivers license, what struck me most the few times I’ve driven in Sweden are how claustrophobically narrow the roads were A possibility related question to US adjacent goons, are our parking spaces tiny in comparison? I feel like roads and parking spaces dimensioned to ford 150s and similar would require some adjustments. Cardiac posted:Couple of days ago I passed an Hilux epa. Was it newish, lifted, black and encountered north of Gothenburg? Because I also
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Jan 1, 2022 17:43
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Zudgemud posted:A possibility related question to US adjacent goons, are our parking spaces tiny in comparison? I feel like roads and parking spaces dimensioned to ford 150s and similar would require some adjustments. Not really? It’s just different layouts. The only difference I’d say are handicapped spots, in the US there’s more room for ramps and slightly larger vans to accommodate specialized vehicles like that (some even run perpendicular!). Not every American drives massive beast cars, and depending on the area the largest you’ll see is a pickup or Jeep Gran Cherokee. I’ve only ever driven an SUV personally once. Keep in mind as well, the EU and NA markets also share a lot more cars than you’d think, just different brand names and slightly different specs. Like I see the same exact year and model of Yaris I was tboned in all the time here, Volvos and SAABs (rip) are a thing as well in the US and have been since long before I was born. teen witch fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jan 1, 2022 |
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Jan 1, 2022 17:49
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I got my C license here in Norway and I felt they prepared me pretty well to think about the different situations I would come across while driving giant crazy death machines. Also did glattkjøring this past month and that was a lot of fun. Let me test out a lot of different ways to get out of trouble when the roads are slippery. I definitely feel much safer driving here than in other countries I've lived in. Speed limits in general are far below what they are in the US on similar roads, especially in cities, and the roads themselves feel decently engineered to keep me at those limits, at least when I'm in a big truck. However, I mostly drive around Oslo in 1-2 hours distances, and have only been as far north as Trondheim in a C truck, so maybe it sucks everywhere I haven't been. Did drive from Oslo -> Uppsala -> Luleå in January once but that was in a B 19m cube truck, so nothing big, but I think it would have been a lot more stressful in a big truck.
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Jan 1, 2022 18:56
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Zudgemud posted:Was it newish, lifted, black and encountered north of Gothenburg? Because I also Don’t see so many down here where I live. TheFluff posted:People have touched on it already but a huge difference is how godawful American road design is - don't hate the player, hate the game. Have you driven in Gothenburg? That is a spectacular bad experience.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:10
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Cardiac posted:Have you driven in Gothenburg? That is a spectacular bad experience. We built the city wrong, as a joke.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:14
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Cardiac posted:Have you driven in Gothenburg? That is a spectacular bad experience. Gothenburg has excellent sign directions, though. If you actually maintain a normal speed, so you have enough time to read the signs, then it's a relatively easy city to navigate. There's a bit of construction going on this decade, though, so you might really want to be reading those signs. In the USA, people wish they would fix the infrastructure, so driving can go back to normal. In Gothenburg, people wish that they would stop fixing the infrastructure, so driving can go back to normal.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:16
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THE BAR posted:Unless it's still 110! That's always fun. In that case there will be a sign after the next on-ramp or at regular intervals if those are too far apart  Or just go 110 if you're in doubt, who cares about a few minutes difference in arrival time?
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Jan 1, 2022 19:17
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Momonari kun posted:I got my C license here in Norway and I felt they prepared me pretty well to think about the different situations I would come across while driving giant crazy death machines. Also did glattkjøring this past month and that was a lot of fun. Let me test out a lot of different ways to get out of trouble when the roads are slippery. I definitely feel much safer driving here than in other countries I've lived in. Speed limits in general are far below what they are in the US on similar roads, especially in cities, and the roads themselves feel decently engineered to keep me at those limits, at least when I'm in a big truck. However, I mostly drive around Oslo in 1-2 hours distances, and have only been as far north as Trondheim in a C truck, so maybe it sucks everywhere I haven't been. Did drive from Oslo -> Uppsala -> Luleå in January once but that was in a B 19m cube truck, so nothing big, but I think it would have been a lot more stressful in a big truck. In Finland we are given training on dodging elks as part of the slippery training. It's nowhere close to as exciting as it sounds though, as you could clearly see the 'target' and it doesn't move. I've met them many times on road and luckily every time there has been enough distance to just brake and let the animal go, but I have also learned to respect them especially when it's dark. This autumn I 'saw' one crossing the road in dark, but I only saw the dark silhouette against a black background. If you see one cross the road you still have to watch out if there's a whole pack following it. One time a massive bull elk crossed the road in broad daylight, at leisurely pace, stopping traffic from both directions. It was so big that I could probably have driven under its body. Truly the king of the forest.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:19
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Feliday Melody posted:Gothenburg has excellent sign directions, though. If you actually maintain a normal speed, so you have enough time to read the signs, then it's a relatively easy city to navigate. Nah, it sucks in many ways. I drive through Gothenburg for work on a regular basis, so I know. The fact that everyone drives 10-20 km/h above the speed limit is an interesting experience.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:24
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Momonari kun posted:I got my C license here in Norway and I felt they prepared me pretty well to think about the different situations I would come across while driving giant crazy death machines. Also did glattkjøring this past month and that was a lot of fun. Let me test out a lot of different ways to get out of trouble when the roads are slippery. I definitely feel much safer driving here than in other countries I've lived in. Speed limits in general are far below what they are in the US on similar roads, especially in cities, and the roads themselves feel decently engineered to keep me at those limits, at least when I'm in a big truck. However, I mostly drive around Oslo in 1-2 hours distances, and have only been as far north as Trondheim in a C truck, so maybe it sucks everywhere I haven't been. Did drive from Oslo -> Uppsala -> Luleå in January once but that was in a B 19m cube truck, so nothing big, but I think it would have been a lot more stressful in a big truck. The roads get a lot smaller in the north but not necessarily worse. The E6/E8 is well maintained all the way to Tromsø, though there's not a lot of dual carriageway. Once you get off the main roads you will run into potholes, massive humps, vanishing curbs, suicidal reindeer, unsurfaced roads, precipitous mountain roads with no barriers, snowdrifts, and frequent winter closures. Plus trucks overtaking you on icy backroads at 100km/h when you're hanging on white-knuckled at 60. That said, I drove about 50,000km over a couple of winters up there and easily the scariest experiences came trying to park in Tromsø city centre. My biggest complaint about Norwegian driving is that nobody indicates on roundabouts.
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Jan 1, 2022 19:41
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big scary monsters posted:The roads get a lot smaller in the north but not necessarily worse. The E6/E8 is well maintained all the way to Tromsø, though there's not a lot of dual carriageway. Once you get off the main roads you will run into potholes, massive humps, vanishing curbs, suicidal reindeer, unsurfaced roads, precipitous mountain roads with no barriers, snowdrifts, and frequent winter closures. Plus trucks overtaking you on icy backroads at 100km/h when you're hanging on white-knuckled at 60. Yeah, I get trucks passing me all the time since I stick to 80 kph (or the limit) no matter what, since I never am pressed for time. I just drop down in speed more and let them pass. I get paid more if I take more time, so it's all good with me.
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Jan 1, 2022 20:34
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I did a 8.000 km road trip through the states visiting family recently and we saw insanely bad, super dangerous drivers, all the time.
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Jan 1, 2022 21:40
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Cardiac posted:Nah, it sucks in many ways. I think the main problem is likely that there have historically been ambitious plans on growing the city which have not panned out as expected. So it is left with good roads in bad places and a bunch of non optimal solutions linking old previously disconnected roads. Have you tried our latest monstrosity, röde orm? Feliday Melody posted:In Gothenburg, people wish that they would stop fixing the infrastructure, so driving and public transport can go back to normal. Oh god yes. I honestly think it will get a lot better when all is done, but having traffic rerouted through different too narrow choke points twice a year is mighty annoying.
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Jan 1, 2022 22:42
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Zudgemud posted:I honestly think it will get a lot better when all is done, but having traffic rerouted through different too narrow choke points twice a year is mighty annoying. The latest batch of construction projects are supposed to be done around 2025. My boss jokes that he will retire the same year that the road re-routing is done.
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Jan 1, 2022 22:45
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Zudgemud posted:A possibility related question to US adjacent goons, are our parking spaces tiny in comparison? I feel like roads and parking spaces dimensioned to ford 150s and similar would require some adjustments. Seeing giant SUVs drive around Stockholm is absurd; where do people park these things!? The handful of US pickup trucks are fun too. Seeing a RAM next to a VW Up or some microscopic Toyota thing is eye opening. I always laugh when I see a Chrysler in Sweden. You had to import that poo poo, and, like, why though
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Jan 1, 2022 23:31
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KozmoNaut posted:In that case there will be a sign after the next on-ramp or at regular intervals if those are too far apart I always go 110; those last 20 are killer on your mileage.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:30
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Zudgemud posted:I think the main problem is likely that there have historically been ambitious plans on growing the city which have not panned out as expected. So it is left with good roads in bad places and a bunch of non optimal solutions linking old previously disconnected roads. Drove on it on the way to our friends. For being Gothenburg, it was not that bad. I think the square with all the tramway and buses by Gothia towers deserves a special mention, even before the reconstruction. Partly I think the issue is that Gothenburg and Stockholm are restricted by geography with the rivers and sea surrounding the city. At least when compared to Malmö, which is just built on a swamp and relatively flat ground.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:20
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Cardiac posted:I think the square with all the tramway and buses by Gothia towers deserves a special mention, even before the reconstruction. The only roundabout I've seen where you have to leave right of way to vehicles entering it!  Of course, trafikverket is a few km up the road, and they head straight for it for every new trainee driver.
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Jan 2, 2022 07:14
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Feliday Melody posted:The latest batch of construction projects are supposed to be done around 2025. I'm young enough that I literally can't remember a Gothenburg before the construction projects.
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Jan 2, 2022 11:23
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MiddleOne posted:I'm young enough that I literally can't remember a Gothenburg before the construction projects. I want to complain, but there's no lack of towns and cities that are in disrepair because they won't do this kind of stuff.
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Jan 2, 2022 11:27
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Cardiac posted:Drove on it on the way to our friends. For being Gothenburg, it was not that bad. I think the square with all the tramway and buses by Gothia towers deserves a special mention, even before the reconstruction. It was way more fun in the good old days when it was more of a literal crossroads and not just a big roundabout with bus and tram stops in the center! Cardiac posted:Partly I think the issue is that Gothenburg and Stockholm are restricted by geography with the rivers and sea surrounding the city. At least when compared to Malmö, which is just built on a swamp and relatively flat ground. And the rocky hills, which I assume is somewhat of a novelty for people from around Malmö.
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Jan 2, 2022 12:00
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Röde orm isn't bad, as long as it's daylight. After dark it's a constant stream of flashing lights directly into the corner of the eye. Very uncomfortable. Also trying to get to the train station in Göteborg has been a pain for a long time. Last time I got lost because what I thought was an intersection was actually supposed to be a turn. But it was dark and a year ago or so, not sure what it looks like now.
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Jan 2, 2022 12:07
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The trick is to never drive. Just take the subway 
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Jan 2, 2022 12:15
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Collapsing Farts posted:The trick is to never drive. Just take the
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Jan 2, 2022 13:27
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I'm 36 and I'm planning to get my driver's license this year. I've lived my entire adult life in Malmö but I grew up in the country — and I know I'll end up there again. I don't have anyone to practice with, and repeatedly starting and stopping lessons accomplishes nothing except erase my savings. It's just too expensive if you're a slow learner and/or can only take lessons intermittently. So I'm gonna spend my vacation in the northern weeds somewhere, attempting to get my license the irresponsible way via an intensive course.
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Jan 2, 2022 14:18
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Back when I learned to drive, automatics were only for people with a physical or mental disability, or Americans. (Like, my middle-school teacher, who only had one working arm. People like that could drive an automatic with no shame.)
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Jan 2, 2022 16:08
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Autos were both less performant *and* less efficient back then so there really was no excuse.
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Jan 2, 2022 16:22
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Zudgemud posted:And the rocky hills, which I assume is somewhat of a novelty for people from around Malmö. Novelty is probably not the best description. One tends to forget that the rest of Sweden is full of cliffs and forests. I was up in Umeå a month ago, and why there are not more horror movies from northern Sweden is a mystery to me. anatomi posted:I'm 36 and I'm planning to get my driver's license this year. I've lived my entire adult life in Malmö but I grew up in the country — and I know I'll end up there again. Most people in the countryside takes their driving license when they are 18 for kinda obvious reasons.
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Jan 2, 2022 18:53
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the new thing in infrastructure development is to keep up a constant rate of development so you contractors etc don't disappear at this point, it is not immediately obvious to me why the municipality doesn't just in-house this stuff to skip contracting costs. it's gotten to the point that it was one of the sides' major points in the recent kerfuffle around bergen's light rail expansion
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Jan 2, 2022 22:44
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Cardiac posted:Novelty is probably not the best description. *It was shot in Romania.
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Jan 2, 2022 23:30
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V. Illych L. posted:the new thing in infrastructure development is to keep up a constant rate of development so you contractors etc don't disappear I would bet contracting costs are either lower or more legally acceptable because they have been building massively around my area at home and at work for the last 5 years and all of the hundreds of construction workers are Eastern European contractors that get bussed back and forth from some common housing every day.
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Jan 3, 2022 08:31
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They've been building and rebuilding the roads in/around Gothenburg for a loving decade now. They build poo poo, and then they tear it down or massively rebuild it a few years later to adapt to some new infrastructure project no-one saw coming for some reason. Götatunneln has been closed on and off for five years. I've been saying that I don't know if poo poo will be better or worse once they're done building, but at least they'll be done building - but gently caress me I don't think they'll ever be done.Zudgemud posted:Historically the secret answer to both of these was to get conscripted and get it for free during your service. From what I have heard it's also a lot less stressful to practice drive and have your driver's exam in common placement locations such as Boden or Skövde compared to, well, anywhere with a more sizable population. Mr. Sunshine fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 10:11
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Mr. Sunshine posted:They've been building and rebuilding the roads in/around Gothenburg for a loving decade now. They build poo poo, and then they tear it down or massively rebuild it a few years later to adapt to some new infrastructure project no-one saw coming for some reason. Götatunneln has been closed on and off for five years. I've been saying that I don't know if poo poo will be better or worse once they're done building, but at least they'll be done building - but gently caress me I don't think they'll ever be done. In the Danish it was civilian instructors, and civilian examinators. And we where required to wear regular civilian shoe, whilst in uniform. And because the civilian rules where in effect, we could only have 2 theory lessons a day, and 2-3 hours of driving lessons a day. So 3 weeks of maximum slacking.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:01
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I keep muttering that I'll get around to getting a license valid in this land of Swedes, but the written driver's exam just seems awful from the practice tests floating around online. There's such confounded gotcha questions, and then questions about emissions that have no pertinence to actually driving a car. It's a grating experience.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:44
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LOL there's no PCR testing available capacity in my region. At all.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:51
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Ofaloaf posted:I keep muttering that I'll get around to getting a license valid in this land of Swedes, but the written driver's exam just seems awful from the practice tests floating around online. There's such confounded gotcha questions, and then questions about emissions that have no pertinence to actually driving a car. It's a grating experience. It is pretty grating, but what you actually need to know about emissions to pass the actual test is arguably pretty pertinent. Lots of digital practice tests aren't great or very similar to the real deal and make it seem like you need to memorise lots of statistical numbers about accidents and emissions. The good ones are the easiest way to learn what you need to pass though and probably worth paying for if you can afford it. Don't bother reading the book more than once, just cram dozens of practice tests, study up on what you got wrong until you pass them reliably and you'll pass the real one with margins first try. The really hard part to learn for me this last round at least was the finer points of parking rules, but knowing those will save you lots of money in avoided tickets in the long run.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:56
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