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my humble opinion that content like eureka would be fine if it didn't have the grind attached, but long tedious enemy fights like HW are not improved by making the long tedious enemy fights mandatory forever
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Jan 3, 2022 20:35
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Nipponophile posted:Combining the best parts of Eureka and Bozja would be just Bozja. Eureka has art, environment, and variety over Bozja, and it's not close. I like the dreary WWI aesthetic of the Southern Front. I think it's cool how in the second section of it you can see ruins that are still scorched with aether from where the Dalamud Control Tower going off like a nuke scarred the earth. But there's nothing there that even comes close to how cool some of the areas in Eureka are, and Zadnor especially is just a big flat slab of brown with absolutely nothing interesting going on. The gameplay loop in both zones is fundamentally the same, it's just that Bozja lacks a lot of the details and side-stuff Eureka has. The main thing Bozja has over Eureka is that you can grind for out-of-zone progression there, that lost actions are better than logos actions, and that there are more raids.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:37
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I know I keep saying this but Eureka's first zone literally drove me to quit before I was anywhere close to done because I was not looking forwards to doing several more zones of it for my AF weapon.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:43
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Chillgamesh posted:Eureka has art, environment, and variety over Bozja, and it's not close. I like the dreary WWI aesthetic of the Southern Front. I think it's cool how in the second section of it you can see ruins that are still scorched with aether from where the Dalamud Control Tower going off like a nuke scarred the earth. But there's nothing there that even comes close to how cool some of the areas in Eureka are, and Zadnor especially is just a big flat slab of brown with absolutely nothing interesting going on. Combining the role of deep dungeon and relic was a bad idea in general I think. I'm sure to save resources they'll do the same thing again but Eureka being completely separate from your actual level was good IMO. The elemental wheel was pretty goofy and could be excised easily but the alternate level up stuff was part of the charm and would like ideally for a similar system to be implemented for EW's relic zone.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:48
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Countblanc posted:What are some good gun glamour options for mch? I currently use one that just looks like a plain rear end oldschool rifle, and I have ye old le Makai gun stored away, but not really any others. It seems like a lot of the current endgame ones look really thin and awkward, I'd like something more substantial. 
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Jan 3, 2022 20:52
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Hellioning posted:I know I keep saying this but Eureka's first zone literally drove me to quit before I was anywhere close to done because I was not looking forwards to doing several more zones of it for my AF weapon. The first zone didn't beat me, but the second zone coming out and being even worse definitely did.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:54
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Zokari posted:The first zone didn't beat me, but the second zone coming out and being even worse definitely did. big fuckin' same here
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Jan 3, 2022 20:56
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Chillgamesh posted:The main thing Bozja has over Eureka is that you can grind for out-of-zone progression there, that lost actions are better than logos actions, and that there are more raids. These were all very important distinctions for me that made the difference between killing only like four mobs in Eureka and completing six relics in Bozja, to be fair
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Jan 3, 2022 20:57
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Did the Stormblood relic not have the "you can do this in old content instead of the new zone" options for relic progression
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Jan 3, 2022 20:59
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Zokari posted:The first zone didn't beat me, but the second zone coming out and being even worse definitely did. 100% same here. I'm sure I'll give it another shot when there's less fun stuff to do.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:59
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Did the Stormblood relic not have the "you can do this in old content instead of the new zone" options for relic progression one hundred percent of the progression is inside Eureka
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Jan 3, 2022 21:00
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Chillgamesh posted:The gameplay loop in both zones is fundamentally the same, it's just that Bozja lacks a lot of the details and side-stuff Eureka has. The main thing Bozja has over Eureka is that you can grind for out-of-zone progression there, that lost actions are better than logos actions, and that there are more raids. This is incredibly huge. If you don't actually enjoy Eureka gameplay, you either write off whatever rewards come from it forever, or you force yourself to grind it for the sake of shinies and nothing else for your time (which just breeds resentment). With Bozja at least you can both progress through it and gain substantial job XP at the same time, which makes players more willing to engage. That and relic hunters in Bozja can work on several relics at once, and were not required to engage with the zone to do it. Lost actions are also hilariously better in implementation than logos actions, it's true. I'd appreciate monster avoidance in Eureka more if one of the Pagos cliff dragons didn't bug out and auto agro on me every single time, no matter if I dead sticked after jumping, despite dozens of other players of the same elemental level landing in the same spot. If you're gonna create atmosphere with mechanics, the mechanics have to actually work right!
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Jan 3, 2022 21:03
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Chillgamesh posted:The gameplay loop in both zones is fundamentally the same, it's just that Bozja lacks a lot of the details and side-stuff Eureka has. The main thing Bozja has over Eureka is that you can grind for out-of-zone progression there, that lost actions are better than logos actions, and that there are more raids. It also has the opposite. You can grind your relic outside, with minimal interaction with bozja after you hit certain milestones. You never have to be spinning your wheels in Bozja, or feel like you're spinning them at least. That said, putting it somewhere other than a faux-WWI battlefield would be alright.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:14
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i loathed eureka when it was current, only doing anemos and leaving it forever. but, imo, after revisiting it at the end of shb, i think the added echo and being able to buy an osode out the gate do a lot of heavy lifting in making the areas more tolerable. i couldn't stand that every 1v1 against a random enemy was a minute long slog, but now you can mow things down pretty quickly. it let me appreciate the zones a lot more for having more unique designs than bozja (hydatos exluded, which imo is the worst map), and i started to enjoy the player agency eureka had over bozja. bozja is a meat grinder of just fates fates fates go go go never stop, and it gets kind of exhausting. a fate spawning in eureka is an event. it gets called out, people wait for others to show up. it's weirdly nice. yeah you get some real assholes in the mix but it feels a lot more community driven than bozja ever does. but also bozja had CEs and duels so therefore it is the best content they've ever created. sorry eureka. edit: also getting into baldesion arsenal is so much of a pain in the rear end on primal that i contemplated putting it off until data center travel would let me visit aether. so, in a sense, community ruins eureka as much as it improves it. a land of contrasts.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:18
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Thundarr posted:This is incredibly huge. If you don't actually enjoy Eureka gameplay, you either write off whatever rewards come from it forever, or you force yourself to grind it for the sake of shinies and nothing else for your time (which just breeds resentment). With Bozja at least you can both progress through it and gain substantial job XP at the same time, which makes players more willing to engage. That and relic hunters in Bozja can work on several relics at once, and were not required to engage with the zone to do it. I agree with this for the most part, but they desperately need to implement social management type stuff into Bozja-type content, it's annoying that you can't blacklist people that are spamming irritating poo poo in shout chat, or votekick people that are leeching in one of the raids. edit: This kind of feels like a non-sequitur response to what you said, let me clarify that the reason why I bring this up is because a lot of people in Bozja don't like it at all and are just grinding for XP or relic weapons or whatever, so they're more likely to be dicks quote:Lost actions are also hilariously better in implementation than logos actions, it's true. They're way better for sure but they're still not perfect. People either don't care or get megalixir syndrome about them and don't use them at all. I hope, if EW has something like them, they just unlock and are permanent rather than being consumable. Keep potions/ethers/etc. as a limited resource, but the actions themselves should just be permanent, and if the content's going to be designed around people using stat booster effects then everyone should be forced to have one active at all times. Ibram Gaunt posted:Combining the role of deep dungeon and relic was a bad idea in general I think. I'm sure to save resources they'll do the same thing again but Eureka being completely separate from your actual level was good IMO. I think there's probably room for both in-zone progression and out-of-zone progression side-by-side. Bozja even has this already with the badges once you get rank 25. Plus, it helps keep the zone active and populated once the initial rush dies down. Rap Game Goku posted:It also has the opposite. You can grind your relic outside, with minimal interaction with bozja after you hit certain milestones. Not trying to come across as pithy/rude/contrarian by saying this but I don't think "you don't have to engage with the content" is that big of a strong point. I mean, you're right that it's good to not have to do it if you don't want to, I just think that ideally you should want to. Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 21:21
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Definitely. Without Echo and a (slightly expensive but not unrealistically so) vermilion cloak at the door, I would have quit in my late ShB return to Eureka. Kill times without those are just so stupid in there. And Eureka still has a trash fire of a story and if I hadn't already done ShB with it's themes in mind I would have let that punk sacrifice himself without hesitation. But it was the "self sacrifice is a stupid idea for suckers when you have friends to help" expansion by the time I did it, so I convinced him not to do that.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:24
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Begemot posted:the community around it felt a lot more friendly. Never had any trouble getting into NM parties, and then people would wait for everyone to get there before starting, so the maximum number of people would get XP and crystals. Maybe Aether just acts differently, but this is so completely and utterly foreign to my attempts at getting anywhere in that hellhole that it sounds completely made up.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:28
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Kyrosiris posted:Maybe Aether just acts differently, but this is so completely and utterly foreign to my attempts at getting anywhere in that hellhole that it sounds completely made up. I think it actually is Aether DC. A friend was telling me how lovely and cliquish the Aether Eureka community was, on Crystal it's basically a giant hugfest.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:33
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The start of Eureka was so miserable for me trying to get the hang of it solo that it stopped me from trying any further and then hearing that the second zone is even worse before it gets good means that I probably never will. It's been a few years since I touched it, but it started out with you needed to get a drop of a crystal or two to unlock the whole element swapping mechanic, right? Right at the start it took so long to kill one mob right outside the starting town that I was on the verge of death and needed to stop to regen health, which then meant I lost the chain bonus so I got less XP. Also the drop rate for the crystals you needed to unlock the elemental wheel was so loving low when solo that I swear I must have killed like ten mobs before the first crystal dropped. Just said gently caress it and never went back. I get that it's intended to be group content, but they letting you do it solo and seemingly making it so punishing just felt awful.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:35
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Chillgamesh posted:I think it actually is Aether DC. A friend was telling me how lovely and cliquish the Aether Eureka community was, on Crystal it's basically a giant hugfest. Yeah, like, the thing that killed my third (third! I've tried to get through the first zone three loving times!) attempt at putting up with Eureka was finally hearing a call that Pazuzu had spawned, knowing that it was important because ??? (no one explains why, just that it's needed), and asking if people could hold the pull and getting "what does a loving EL11 need with this, go back to grinding mobs and stfu" in response. You know, the mobs that I could barely kill one or two of at a time without it feeling like a life-and-death struggle, because Eureka loving sucks.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:38
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To be fair I'm on Aether, and basically any time I shouted for an NM party I got into one.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:43
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One nice thing about whatever relic zone/progression thing they make in Endwalker is that Yoshi-P said he underestimated how much effort people would apply into getting multiple relics, since he mostly saw it as something to do for one job, so the process of getting multiples should be streamlined for those who insist on doing it. I've never finished a single relic in the first place, so it won't matter for me unless something changes dramatically, but I like the idea anyway since I don't like systems that encourage people to grind basically forever.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:47
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Chillgamesh posted:Not trying to come across as pithy/rude/contrarian by saying this but I don't think "you don't have to engage with the content" is that big of a strong point. I mean, you're right that it's good to not have to do it if you don't want to, I just think that ideally you should want to. True, but I think more ways to interact with the parts I do like without dealing with the parts I don't is a good thing.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:50
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one of the first things I did after completing my drk physeos weapon was go into pagos and solo down the dragons that give you so much grief when you're leveling. that's how I got to feel powerful in Eureka, and why thisOxyclean posted:I kind of don't like it when RPGs go "btw you're not powerful anymore, do it again, but also, you will never really get all that powerful" made me lol pretty hard
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Jan 3, 2022 21:51
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the biggest problem with eureka is not just that the grind sucks but ALSO that you do this terrible grind for relics that look like poo poo
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Jan 3, 2022 21:53
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Badger of Basra posted:the biggest problem with eureka is not just that the grind sucks but ALSO that you do this terrible grind for relics that look like poo poo bad post e: real fox and the grapes energy
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Jan 3, 2022 21:55
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Ibblebibble posted:If you go a bit further there's Armageddon which is a cool pepper mill barrel gun or whatever its called. I need to check again when I'm in game, but iirc the high allagan gun is like a fantasy Tommy gun too. Edit : looking it up it definitely was not high allag, I'll need to look at it in my glamor drawer when I get online tonight. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 21:56
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Great tanking trick I just learned for the level 83 dungeon: for the final gauntlet, the gap between the winding platforms is small enough that you can use Provoke or your ranged attack to aggro the furthest pack to the next wall and drag it over, which obviates the need to drag everything through the traps to clump them up. Just be ready to grab aggro off your healer.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:56
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Badger of Basra posted:the biggest problem with eureka is not just that the grind sucks but ALSO that you do this terrible grind for relics that look like poo poo Hey my completed RDM Eureka relic looks pretty cool. But lol if you think I'm going to spend time getting another. (all Bozja relics completed) If I go back into Eureka it'll be to farm bunny mounts or maybe clear BA once. Though in fairness after I get around to getting RPR to 81 I'm unlikely to go back to Bozja either, other than to try to get those last two goddamn notes I don't have.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:57
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Countblanc posted:What are some good gun glamour options for mch? I currently use one that just looks like a plain rear end oldschool rifle, and I have ye old le Makai gun stored away, but not really any others. It seems like a lot of the current endgame ones look really thin and awkward, I'd like something more substantial. The Dreadwyrm Handgonne from Final Coils T4 is huge and the barrel spins around when you draw it.  
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Jan 3, 2022 21:58
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Chillgamesh posted:I guess we just have a different way of looking at it. For me those parts were fun. Figuring out how to get to a safe spot to rez someone who'd died in a tough spot, or just taking a risk and gambling that a mob wouldn't turn or patrol while I was going for it was cool. I liked seeing just how much trash I could get away with pulling at once even if dying occasionally felt bad. Missing FATEs didn't really matter to me since there was always something going on, and people would wait for everyone in the zone to come over for the actually important ones like Pazuzu, Louhi, and Penny. You could dick around and go grind out kills for your challenge log/XP between bosses or if you'd already hit the zone cap you could hit up a bunny FATE and get loot while you waited for a boss to spawn. You're not the only one feeling this way. To me, Eureka just felt more... organic? Anemos was the best Eureka zone as well imho - a variety of enemies and environments on one map. It was cool and good. Bozja is just.... boring. Like, I feel like it is mechanically better in ways, but the overall experience felt far lesser. The story was the most boring poo poo ever put in FFXIV. The environments were the worst zones ever added to the game. Go look in Zadnor and notice that every group of enemies is just a perfect circle placed on the map (since fates and CEs spawn in the center of those circles). Bozja feels like they optimized the cool parts out of Eureka, if that makes sense. Lost actions are better than Logos actions. But both should just be abilities you unlock once and have forever. Eureka was never hard, but it wasn't brainless. Bozja is brainless and boring.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:59
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anyway eurekachads rise upVitamean posted:I've been at cap in Eureka since BA came out, but I've been helping some friends level up in older zones, so I can throw out some tips on leveling:
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Jan 3, 2022 22:03
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Eureka on Primal was pretty chill when I roamed there a couple years ago. A few folks were kinda ehh but most were cool and some were among the kindest folks I've ever met in game. You ever get into a group with Shugo Kunisaki on Leviathan, you're in good company
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Jan 3, 2022 22:13
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I want to do Eureka but purely for content unlocks, and I'm hoping I can get some like-minded friends together for it down the line. It's one of those things where the mood needs to strike just right.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:15
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Eureka is a ftw community experience that has good aspects of it that we might not see much again because both it and bozja brought a strong showing of people who are so hesitant to do group stuff with any amount of risk vs reward that they won’t even zone in to it with actually ridiculously huge echo, ignoring the droves of people who are just all in on the most exp they can get right now
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Jan 3, 2022 22:18
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Thundarr posted:To be fair I'm on Aether, and basically any time I shouted for an NM party I got into one. The only difference between data centers was that one data center used real time for pulls and the other used Eorzean time. Both gave plenty of time for people to make their way over and didn't care about what level someone was.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:36
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Bozja is super streamlined down Eureka, taking out all the sharp points and edges that appeal to some people but providing an easier experience for more people. Unfortunately it also had almost no charm between the brown battlefields, linear map design, and lazy enemy placement in Zadnor.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:44
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Eureka's story was pretty generic, but fine. Bozja story made me actively mad at several points (oh wow another NPC holding someone hostage because my character is too powerful so its the only way to make NPCs feel threatening). Eureka also had better looking zones and its not even close. The biggest thing Bozja has going for it is raw efficiency imo, but even then the color scheme and fate grind got to me eventually.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:45
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Bozja/Zadnor might be ugly, but a lot of those encounters are really good and fun, and honestly that’s kinda all I care about (Red Comet, CLL, DR, and Dalraida especially)
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Jan 3, 2022 22:47
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Tbh they should have just patched exp into Eureka since 61-70 doesn't have trusts so it's kind of a dead zone in leveling for people who use them and command missions to level.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:49
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