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checkplease posted:We literally see humans and programs working together in IO. They are not "forced" to be there with humans. You dont see a program in chains with a guard. And besides, we do see everyone interact with Sati in a virtual construct, just as you want to see. And in the ship, machine, program, and humans are all working as one team in the real world and in the matrix. Its fair to want more time in IO, but its definitely shown and described by all as the revolutions ideal society. We kinda see one half of the symbiosis and I thought that was lacking. The machines are helping the humans grow strawberries to eat, something they could not do be themselves. Where do the machines in IO get their power from? The films have always danced around the conceit that humans produce more electricity than nuclear power, but that premise is something I think we are all willing to roll with as long as the films don't start playing with it. I thought during the film that it would have been an interesting reveal that the deal of IO was that in exchange for machine labour in the human world, humans would voluntarily sleep or do 'shifts' in a matrix-style power plant to keep their side of existence running.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:12
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checkplease posted:From the plot, when neo is broken out of his pod, the matrix destablizes and a fail safe should have been activated to revert the matrix back to 1999 version. The Analyst halted this because he was sure he could get Neo to come back. When Trinity is finally removed and they meet together at the end, the Analyst states that the higher level machines tried to use this fail-safe, but could not because Trinity and Neo are preventing it. It seems that Neo and Trinity are keeping this version of the matrix stable at least and preventing another such war. Great analysis but what does it mean? True love is gonna keep climate change at bay? Aging Gen Xers are going to reconnect and fight the power?
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Jan 4, 2022 17:20
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Human beings retain their DSI when they enter a construct, however programs have to drastically alter their appearance to even exist in the real world. So there is no compromise when it comes to how they coexist despite the fact that programs have gifted humanity with food that is substantially more enjoyable than a bowl of grey mush. Doesn't Morpheus even say that the rest of the crew just leave him alone in the dojo construct and Neo is the first to visit. The ending is kind of like the book ending of Dune except there is no agenda that won't lead to everything collapsing despite the fact that the film tries to present a positively ambiguous conclusion. The Suits have the power cord, but pulling it will cause them to lose entire crops of humans. Trinity and Neo have the keys to the Matrix, but we know eventually that if they don't hand back control the whole thing is going to collapse and everyone will die anyway. This is reinforced simultaneously by Smith in the first movie saying the T and N's vision of how to remake the Matrix will lead to catastrophe and the Analyst explicitly laying out that the power output dropping below a certain level will force the hand of the Suits.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Great analysis but what does it mean? True love is gonna keep climate change at bay? Aging Gen Xers are going to reconnect and fight the power? Right, the actual path of making the world/matrix better is left vague. There is an aspect of rejecting conservatism and not making it great again like 1999, but yeah the actual specifics are not there. They do talk about wanting to inspire people and "remind people what a free mind can do". It does also differ from Matrix 1 where Neo wants to free everyone and escape the matrix, but here they want to have an active hand in improving it. The analyst remains and doubts all this, and there's definitely questions about will it work. But Neo and Trinity (like Lana) are optimistic that they have the power to make things better somehow. It does seem like Lana is a Bernie supporter, so maybe some of that idealism is here too.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:52
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Alchenar posted:We kinda see one half of the symbiosis and I thought that was lacking. The machines are helping the humans grow strawberries to eat, something they could not do be themselves. Where do the machines in IO get their power from? The films have always danced around the conceit that humans produce more electricity than nuclear power, but that premise is something I think we are all willing to roll with as long as the films don't start playing with it. Yeah I definitely would like to have seen more of IO. Those are fair questions about how life works exactly for the programs and machines there. They do mention they have the Bio Lights which work as an "grow light." So maybe they can use this solar power for the programs and machines there.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:59
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Until I saw it typed out I was only thinking of IO in terms of mythological terms and a little bit of Input/Output but it could also be read 1,0 as representation of binary. The same name as the game Neo was struggling with as a followup to The Matrix and a construct that the Wachowski sisters struggled with in real life. It's weird how both this and The Last Jedi left me just wanting to dig back into their respective mmos. Almost like I was excited to get to play in that space again but the movies left me unfulfilled. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 18:25
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checkplease posted:Its about 63% on rotten tomato with both critic and audience. So assuming a normal distribution, you have an overwhelmingly positive review for each largely negative one. You got me, I haven't checked the score distribution before posting.  So yeah it's more positive then negative but since I said "negative or mixed" I think I left myself enough wiggle room to be technically correct  I definitely don't mean to pass judgment on a movie i haven't seen, but I also have to somehow make a decision on whether to spend my time and money on it. If it wasn't The Matrix I wouldn't even consider it, but having seen all the other movies, Animatrix, and even one of the games, I'll just go see this one as well.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:41
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Still can’t get over how dull the fight choreography was. That was like the only thing I was looking forward to.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:06
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I would say the one thing this movie ended up being is generic Like in the lead-up we were all thinking ohhhhh poo poo is it gonna be like there's a matrix within the matrix or like whaaaaaat crazy mindfuck is there gonna be???? but the movie is just "yeah no it's just the matrix again. nothing you knew before has been changed or whatever it's just the matrix again peace"
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Jan 4, 2022 19:28
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Drunkboxer posted:Still can’t get over how dull the fight choreography was. That was like the only thing I was looking forward to. What got me is how slow Keanu looked. Obviously he's not in his mid-30s anymore but he looks much more spry in the John Wick movies.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:06
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live with fruit posted:What got me is how slow Keanu looked. Obviously he's not in his mid-30s anymore but he looks much more spry in the John Wick movies. I think it was like 60% bad fight directing but then also like 40% "they filmed this in march of 2020" where the filming got really really jacked up because of covid. Like I imagine they didn't intentionally write in the script that half of his action would be doing a bullet shield hand motion, that feels like the patch up they did for not being able to film on location or even easily on a soundstage and having to do everything in a small scale and then in computers. Like I almost bet he just did the whole ending in his living room or something with a nice green screen.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:13
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live with fruit posted:What got me is how slow Keanu looked. Obviously he's not in his mid-30s anymore but he looks much more spry in the John Wick movies. The stuff in John Wick is specifically designed around Keanu's abilities and limitations. His fighting style is mostly judo and wrestling, where he's working to get the opponent into a vulnerable position so that he can end the fight with a single decisive blow. Not that there aren't some speedier moves mixed in there but those are typically when Keanu's limitations show the most, like in John Wick 3 when there are instances of him fighting multiple opponents at once, you do have moments where the stunt guys clearly are having to slow down their movements and pull their punches a bit to accommodate him. Like, it's pretty obvious that Yayan Ruhian and Cecep Rahman aren't able to go all-out full speed with Keanu the way they would if they were just doing a scene with each other. Keanu is still light years ahead of pretty much any other A-List actor though.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:24
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Basebf555 posted:The stuff in John Wick is specifically designed around Keanu's abilities and limitations. His fighting style is mostly judo and wrestling, where he's working to get the opponent into a vulnerable position so that he can end the fight with a single decisive blow. It's funny that the two big IP holiday releases were this and Book of Boba Fett and both feature 60-year-old guys not really pulling off their fight choreography.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The issue is: what revolutionary potential? The basic premise of the Matrix series is to say that the systemic problems inside the matrix are optional and historically-contingent effects of society's economic base. Someone who doesn't understand that their life-force is daily being consumed by alien machinery will never understand or be able to combat poverty and homelessness. Furthermore, there's no giant robot head in charge of everything; even before the exiles are introduced in the first two sequels, we're shown that "the machines" are a group of distinct people with sometimes opposing desires, technical and resource-based limitations, etc.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:30
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live with fruit posted:It's funny that the two big IP holiday releases were this and Book of Boba Fett and both feature 60-year-old guys not really pulling off their fight choreography. I don't think it's really even due to age. Like, even if Keanu had made John Wick at 30 years old I think the decisions they made about his fighting style still would've been the right ones because Keanu is not a trained martial artist. For The Matrix, they brought in one of the most legendary fight choreographers of all time and Keanu/the cast trained for months, for what really doesn't amount to a whole lot of actual on-screen fighting time. If Stahleski and the John Wick films have proven anything it's that you really do need that level of commitment to pull off that kind of high level fight scene. Halle Berry trained for like 6 goddamn months to be in JW3, and she's in it for like 15 mins! I think we could all tell immediately when we watched Matrix Resurrections that they did not put the time and effort into those scenes as they needed to for them to be worthy of what was done on the original films.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:39
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Yeah watch some of the matrix revisited and they talk about all the training for matrix 1 and the sequels. It’s again like 6 months of prep time for each film. And that was 20 years ago. People got old. Keanu is like 57. But I get wanting some of those old matrix fights again. They are still so good.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:46
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Basebf555 posted:The stuff in John Wick is specifically designed around Keanu's abilities and limitations. His fighting style is mostly judo and wrestling, where he's working to get the opponent into a vulnerable position so that he can end the fight with a single decisive blow. John Wick 3 even had Cepep and Yayhan make good natured comments on John being out of practice or slower and older and offer help to get him to stand up, so it’s acknowledged.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:50
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"On March 16, 2020, production on the film was halted due to the COVID-19 pandemic.[79] After filming was halted, Wachowski contemplated the possibility of never finishing the film and letting it "go down as an incomplete legendary film not meant to be seen by anyone". However, the cast insisted Wachowski return and finish the film until she agreed.[80] On August 16, 2020, Reeves confirmed filming had resumed in Berlin.[81]"
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Jan 4, 2022 21:11
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G-III posted:Morpheus should have been played by a mo-capped all cgi Cowboy Curtis with the voice sounding like fishburnes using deep fake audio. This was in the first image search for Cowboy Curtis:  live with fruit posted:What got me is how slow Keanu looked. Obviously he's not in his mid-30s anymore but he looks much more spry in the John Wick movies. The director of the John Wick films is a stunt man, stunt choreographer and was Keanu Reeves' stunt double in the Matrix films, the dude knows exactly how to get a good performance out of him. For some reason they didn't use him as the stunt coordinator in Matrix 4... instead using him in an acting roll as Trinity's husband. 
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Jan 4, 2022 21:34
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Gatts posted:John Wick 3 even had Cepep and Yayhan make good natured comments on John being out of practice or slower and older and offer help to get him to stand up, so it’s acknowledged. Fun fact: this literally came verbatim from their practice sessions. It was so charming they put it into the movie.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:"On March 16, 2020, production on the film was halted due to the COVID-19 pandemic.[79] After filming was halted, Wachowski contemplated the possibility of never finishing the film and letting it "go down as an incomplete legendary film not meant to be seen by anyone". However, the cast insisted Wachowski return and finish the film until she agreed.[80] On August 16, 2020, Reeves confirmed filming had resumed in Berlin.[81]"
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Jan 4, 2022 23:21
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sigher posted:The director of the John Wick films is a stunt man, stunt choreographer and was Keanu Reeves' stunt double in the Matrix films, the dude knows exactly how to get a good performance out of him. For some reason they didn't use him as the stunt coordinator in Matrix 4... instead using him in an acting roll as Trinity's husband. Going from directing your own megafranchise to being the stunt coordinator for a movie you're not directing seems like a big step down.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:28
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sigher posted:This was in the first image search for Cowboy Curtis: I believe Keanu mentioned they did almost no rehearsals for Matrix 4. Compare to Matrix 1, which had something like an 18-month training/conditioning leadup alone.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:31
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DaveKap posted:I wonder if the move to Berlin was always planned or if San Francisco just wouldn't let her film and how much that threw off the final product. ...Also I can't help but smirk at the word "legendary" in there. 1: of, relating to, or characteristic of legend or a legend The Matrix Resurrections is, if nothing else, legendary.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:32
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For me the issue with the action was deeper than Keanu getting a bit slow. The bit that really stuck out to me was the leap off the building, which then ends kinda with Trinity looking at a helicopter, saying 'bye' and leaving. Like for the climax of the matrix, when the original movie that had her leap out of a helicopter attached to a rope while it slams into a building in slow motion it felt a little lacking.Shrimpy posted:I still don’t understand why New-Actor-Old-Smith was so wildly different from Old-Movie-Old-Smith, when New-Actor-New-Morpheus was like a weird exact cosplay of Old-Morpheus. New Morpheus seemed like he was having way more fun than old Morpheus. I dont remember Fishbourne making jokes or dressing as wacky as Abdul-Mateen. massive spider fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 23:37
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massive spider posted:For me the issue with the action was deeper than Keanu getting a bit slow. The bit that really stuck out to me was the leap off the building, which then ends kinda with Trinity looking at a helicopter, saying 'bye' and leaving. Like for the climax of the matrix, when the original movie that had her leap out of a helicopter attached to a rope while it slams into a building in slow motion it felt a little lacking. It also looked like she was straight up hanging from wires.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:38
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live with fruit posted:It also looked like she was straight up hanging from wires. She was, both literally and figuratively.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:42
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Almost every action sequence in the original films was something you had never seen done in cinema before; from bullet time, to the wire-fu in the dojo, to just the pyrotechnics used to make the lobby shootout so visceral. This one just doesn't really try, although it has been made more difficult by Chris Nolan using his career to pick all the low and medium hanging fruit.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:44
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mobby_6kl posted:You got me, I haven't checked the score distribution before posting. Ha good graph find. Yeah there’s only so much time and money one has and so much content out there these days.
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Jan 5, 2022 00:56
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live with fruit posted:Going from directing your own megafranchise to being the stunt coordinator for a movie you're not directing seems like a big step down. He still did stunt coordination for Dead Pool 2, which was after he directed the first John Wick. I'd think that having a minor speaking roll that in a bad film is a bigger step down. As a stunt coordinator he's in his element at presumably his passion, so.
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Jan 5, 2022 02:50
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sigher posted:He still did stunt coordination for Dead Pool 2, which was after he directed the first John Wick. I'd think that having a minor speaking roll that in a bad film is a bigger step down. As a stunt coordinator he's in his element at presumably his passion, so. Cameos seem pretty standard.
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Jan 5, 2022 03:21
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Casting Keanu Reeves' stuntman as Trinity's fake husband is actually a pretty good joke.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:14
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Casting Keanu Reeves' stuntman as Trinity's fake husband is actually a pretty good joke. It is. And Neo's kinda dumpy fake "digital image" is her real husband, made up to look bad. The problem is that this knowledge is not communicated in the film.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It is. And Neo's kinda dumpy fake "digital image" is her real husband, made up to look bad. The problem is that this knowledge is not communicated in the film. The whole thing feels like they took a six episode limited series and cut it down to 2.5 hours and stuff like "Who is that?" or "Why should I care?" didn't make the cut. live with fruit fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 05:23
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what the hell are you two talking about. you're expecting a movie to look into the camera and explain a casting joke?
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Jan 5, 2022 05:30
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Why not? Neo had official McFarlane toys on his desk.
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Jan 5, 2022 05:37
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Ferrinus posted:The basic premise of the Matrix series is to say that the systemic problems inside the matrix are optional and historically-contingent effects of society's economic base. Someone who doesn't understand that their life-force is daily being consumed by alien machinery will never understand or be able to combat poverty and homelessness. Furthermore, there's no giant robot head in charge of everything; even before the exiles are introduced in the first two sequels, we're shown that "the machines" are a group of distinct people with sometimes opposing desires, technical and resource-based limitations, etc. Yes, every society has a base and superstructure - but that’s not saying anything except that the film depicts a society. When we go into the specifics, your claim is that the relations of production inside the matrix are part of the superstructure and not the base. In other words, when Tom Anderson goes to his job at Metacortex and does coding in his cubicle with the computers in exchange for a wage, etc. - you are asserting that this is not actually work, but a sort of ritual pantomime. Like a child playing with toy trucks and pretending to be a construction worker. That is, of course, exactly the ideological obfuscation I just criticized. I do understand that you’re attempting to take the fantasy scenario of the film literally in order to analyze/critique it. I’ve been doing the same. In your case, however, the burden is to describe a whole speculative alien economy and how/why it would produce this particular superstructure. In other words: why would a society made up of sapient batteries and the robots they power produce such cultural artifacts as Rob Zombie’s Dragula?
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Jan 5, 2022 05:48
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Watched the movie minutes ago and am just popping in now, before I read the last twenty pages of this thread and SMG's takes and become all disillusioned, to say that this movie loving owns and has me feeling the way I did when I left the cinema in 1999 after watching the original.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:10
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VROOM VROOM posted:what the hell are you two talking about. you're expecting a movie to look into the camera and explain a casting joke? Yeah agreed. Its not really needed. All jokes like this are explained on Twitter within hours of films release. All media is connected now.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:20
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Simiain posted:Watched the movie minutes ago and am just popping in now, before I read the last twenty pages of this thread and SMG's takes and become all disillusioned, to say that this movie loving owns and has me feeling the way I did when I left the cinema in 1999 after watching the original. Qualia fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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