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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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nomad2020 posted:What about the snowboarder who came in with a mild TBI and later caught hospital associated rona and ended up on a vent? What in the flying gently caress are you talking about and I mean that seriously? Is that a real case or just something you made up? If it's hospital associated infections it falls into a different catagory, mainly not one in the public infections. Largely someone with a tbi will likely end up on a vent, but it won't be covid that kills them it will be the massive brain swelling and possible ventilator associated pneumonia that does it. Something like that would likely be attributed to septic shock and brain herniation related causes. Hospital aquirered in that case will be the least of the guys worries
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Jan 4, 2022 17:50
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Foxfire_ posted:In San Francisco, UCSF hospital system routinely tests everyone admitted for any reason and is getting 1-in-13 people positive asymptomatically right now It's routine for all admits now in almost all systems to help protect patients and prevent hospital infections, as best as possible. Before it was only if it met the strict requirements but the availability of tests to hospitals (for now) makes it something routine that everyone does.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:52
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Rust Martialis posted:Which line? Case and hospitalizations here in DK aren't "vertical". Hospitalizations. Denmark can follow whatever it wants, but you were advocating being reactive before cases (and hospitalizations) blew up in Denmark. I'd rather New York State work to minimize the spread now. They aren't doing that.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:52
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enki42 posted:2. It's pointless anyways. If hospitalizations are rising exponentially (which it appears that they are in most places with Omicron), even if incidental cases are fairly large at the beginning, they're going to be dwarfed by non-incidental cases pretty quickly. Incidental has to cap out at your normal level of hospitalization, or there's demonstrably something wrong with the way you're classifying incidental admissions. And if that initial number is 50% incidental or something, absolutely guaranteed people are going to latch onto that number and parrot it endlessly long after it stops being correct. I guess we might be arguing about different data here. I agree if raw total hospitalizations are rising exponentially then that is cause for concern, but as far as I can tell, at least in the UK, raw hospitalization numbers aren't the ones being reported on, its "number of patients with covid-19" which is a subset of the total number. Interestingly, I did actually go and double check this to make sure I wasn't misremembering or misunderstanding the figures and the UK does report on the number of patients in mechanical ventilators which is a much more direct measure (though obviously still not perfect) and this has remained very stable:  Source: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
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Jan 4, 2022 17:57
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brugroffil posted:If you're not being admitted for an acute injury, isn't COVID likely to exacerbate/be exacerbated by whatever illness you were admitted with? Maybe? And that's what separating out the stats helps to track too. It's not like they are dumping the total amount of hospitalisations in the bin, but it helps figure out the general spread if like 50% of your patients are coming in with incidental covid. You can also see if the ones with incidental covid have worse health outcomes than the ones without
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Jan 4, 2022 17:59
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Is there even a comprehensive list of omicron-specific symptoms? Like the loss of taste/smell is supposedly less prevalent than with delta, but delta's still prevalent in the US anyways and it seems like there will be plenty of ambiguous dual diagnoses.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:59
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brugroffil posted:I'm not sure why it makes sense to separate out "OF covid" from "WITH covid." Capacity is capacity. We have historical baseline hospitalization rates which ought to be fairly comparable year over year. Any significant uptick over historical trends will be COVID-related. You don't need to tease out the "broken bone, tested positive incidentally" cases unless you're trying to minimize the burden on our health care system, which is what we saw a lot of in 2020. Part of it is that someone may be admitted for something such as a bowel obstruction, chest pain, gallbladder issues and the like and have a positive test. Those still would have been admitted due to the needs of the patient, and only have incidental infections that may have higher risks but are not actively causing issues. That is a distinction that you do see with some of the cases such as the one I described of a guy here for liver issues from chronic drinking that ends up positive and absolutely no symptoms or oxygen needs. Someone admitted for other issues or possible needs for emergant surgery testing positive may mean that they are at risk of suddenly being symptomatic, but it doesn't mean that covid was the reason they are their, ie my chronic drinking with a massive bleed, or the guy that got in a car wreck. It just means that they need the same care, but also precautions and monitoring in case they do suddenly change and start having covid symptoms. The distinction does matter, mainly for acuity and staffing. You don't want to ignore a positive covid patient, but you want to focus on the actual primary reason they are in the hospital, ie the belly about to burst, the active blood coming from an rear end in a top hat, or the guy that went through his car windshield. Covid just means you need pulmonary and infectious disease consults and monitoring, with other meds just in case. Now partly getting that data may be more difficult because it is patient data, and it may be more guarded then positive covid results which under federal rules they want reported. That I can't tell you or want to deal with
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Jan 4, 2022 18:00
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Judakel posted:Hospitalizations. Denmark can follow whatever it wants, but you were advocating being reactive before cases (and hospitalizations) blew up in Denmark. I'd rather New York State work to minimize the spread now. They aren't doing that. I agree the state should take strong steps to reduce the spread, and I think DK should have ramped up faster than it has, but frankly I don't think Danes would have dialled Jule back much. We're still well below the worst Delta peak here and we're 95 percent omicron.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:02
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eXXon posted:Is there even a comprehensive list of omicron-specific symptoms? Like the loss of taste/smell is supposedly less prevalent than with delta, but delta's still prevalent in the US anyways and it seems like there will be plenty of ambiguous dual diagnoses. This is personal feelings but everyone I know that has had omicron says it's like a sinus infection. Tons of congestion headache runny nose and general poo poo feeling. Now that's all vaccinated and boosted people and just personal stories but it sounds like an awful uri basically if you are vaxxed. But who knows! Og covid had tons of symptoms that weren't respiratory.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:05
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UCS Hellmaker posted:This is personal feelings but everyone I know that has had omicron says it's like a sinus infection. Tons of congestion headache runny nose and general poo poo feeling. Now that's all vaccinated and boosted people and just personal stories but it sounds like an awful uri basically if you are vaxxed. But who knows! Og covid had tons of symptoms that weren't respiratory. uh-oh Is there anywhere that has a good consensus on how long these symptoms tend to kick in? I'm prone to sinus infections and the sort and they usually hit me pretty quickly. Does it take days or do most people just wake up sick as hell?
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Jan 4, 2022 18:18
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Rust Martialis posted:I had a headache for a couple days. Tons of infected people are asymptomatic. Why would a short term viral infection necessarily worsen say, prostate cancer or the like? Say you're in for hemmorhoid surgery and test positive. Is COVID going to make your rear end bleed more? You were in to get your rear end operated on, not for COVID. The next day, asymptomatic, they send you home. Should they mark your rear end surgery as COVID-related? That's a good point. There's so much gray area and potential for mistakes, trying to separate WITH Covid and OF Covid is an unworkable idea
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Jan 4, 2022 18:22
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Rust Martialis posted:I had a headache for a couple days. Tons of infected people are asymptomatic. Why would a short term viral infection necessarily worsen say, prostate cancer or the like? Say you're in for hemmorhoid surgery and test positive. Is COVID going to make your rear end bleed more? You were in to get your rear end operated on, not for COVID. The next day, asymptomatic, they send you home. Should they mark your rear end surgery as COVID-related? If you have or had cancer, you are at increased risk of severe illness from COVID-19. Whether you came in for "incidental" non-COVID related issues or you are at a high risk of picking up COVID in the hospital, it seems like a bad scenario.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:25
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UCS Hellmaker posted:This is personal feelings but everyone I know that has had omicron says it's like a sinus infection. Tons of congestion headache runny nose and general poo poo feeling. Now that's all vaccinated and boosted people and just personal stories but it sounds like an awful uri basically if you are vaxxed. But who knows! Og covid had tons of symptoms that weren't respiratory. When we had our Ominicronpocalypse a couple of weeks ago here, those were my and everyone else's symptoms for a few days until it cleared, although a couple of people lost taste and smell too, which I didn't. A few out of the 20 or so I know got diagnosed with Omnicron specifically and the rest just sat at home and tested clean later, so this is just anecdotal and not scientific. All vaccinated, most boosted, too so there's that.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:26
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Gripweed posted:That's a good point. There's so much gray area and potential for mistakes, trying to separate WITH Covid and OF Covid is an unworkable idea PSA - If you or someone you love are suffering Long COVID-related cognitive impairment, talk to your primary healthcare provider.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:30
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It is super heartening to see that, so far, for the young, healthy, and vaccinated Omicron seems to be pretty much a few sniffly days. I loving love it. Hope it is here to stay and outcompetes any other future strains. One step closer to a normal world again.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:30
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How are u posted:It is super heartening to see that, so far, for the young, healthy, and vaccinated Omicron seems to be pretty much a few sniffly days. I loving love it. Hope it is here to stay and outcompetes any other future strains. One step closer to a normal world again. Normal was horrid and longing for it is misguided at best. Long for better.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:33
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Bel Shazar posted:Normal was horrid and longing for it is misguided at best. Long for better.  Obviously, as a leftist, I do long for better. And I work for better. You know what I meant.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:36
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How are u posted:
It's reflexive at this point
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Jan 4, 2022 18:37
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How are u posted:It is super heartening to see that, so far, for the young, healthy, and vaccinated Omicron seems to be pretty much a few sniffly days. I loving love it. Hope it is here to stay and outcompetes any other future strains. One step closer to a normal world again. We all love some weird poo poo. Why not hold out your hopes for a milder strain, though?
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Jan 4, 2022 18:39
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mawarannahr posted:We all love some weird poo poo. Why not hold out your hopes for a milder strain, though? 100% agreed. I imagine that the ideal end-game here is milder upon milder strains over the next decade or whatever. 10 years from now hopefully it is simply...the flu.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:40
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Bel Shazar posted:Normal was horrid and longing for it is misguided at best. Long for better. What is the point of this kind of post. You knew what they meant. Christ
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Jan 4, 2022 18:44
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brugroffil posted:If you have or had cancer, you are at increased risk of severe illness from COVID-19. Whether you came in for "incidental" non-COVID related issues or you are at a high risk of picking up COVID in the hospital, it seems like a bad scenario. And they mean EVER had cancer. One of my higher level bosses died of this just before vaccines were approved for non medical workers. He was in his mid fifties and his only preexisting condition was he beat prostate cancer over a decade previous.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:46
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I don't understand the going around in circles for this COVID mortality issue. Maybe someone make a flowchart to help people out or something.
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Jan 4, 2022 18:46
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Part of it is that someone may be admitted for something such as a bowel obstruction, chest pain, gallbladder issues and the like and have a positive test. Those still would have been admitted due to the needs of the patient, and only have incidental infections that may have higher risks but are not actively causing issues. That is a distinction that you do see with some of the cases such as the one I described of a guy here for liver issues from chronic drinking that ends up positive and absolutely no symptoms or oxygen needs. Someone admitted for other issues or possible needs for emergant surgery testing positive may mean that they are at risk of suddenly being symptomatic, but it doesn't mean that covid was the reason they are their, ie my chronic drinking with a massive bleed, or the guy that got in a car wreck. It just means that they need the same care, but also precautions and monitoring in case they do suddenly change and start having covid symptoms. FWIW as of an hour ago this hospital is now on full bypass. How much does all this parsing and nuance, at least for publicly reported numbers, actually matter? Or is it more likely to be used to push a "not as bad as it seems/we were saying for the first two years" narrative?
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Jan 4, 2022 18:49
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brugroffil posted:FWIW as of an hour ago this hospital is now on full bypass. More information matters. Especially when we're dealing with the polar narratives of "They're inflating the numbers, it's not really that bad" versus "They're under reporting because capitalism."
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Jan 4, 2022 18:55
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brugroffil posted:FWIW as of an hour ago this hospital is now on full bypass. It just seems like the next line of defense after the cases have decoupled from hospitalization line became untenable. The red MAGA people doing this exact same "hospitalized with covid not of covid" stuff last year were also insisting they were just interested in a specific and accurate parsing of the data too and that's why they had to yell it louder and louder over the announcements of hospital beds mysteriously running out. It was obvious what they were doing then, especially since they were the same people who had spent the well-known lag period between rising cases and rising hospitalization claiming that this temporary state of affairs was proof that covid wasn't hurting anyone anymore.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:04
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I guess I'll just remain skeptical that the push for this new* framing will be used for anything but downplaying the severity and avoiding the difficult work of abating COVID, furthering the "back to normal" narrative e: VitalSigns posted:It just seems like the next line of defense after the cases have decoupled from hospitalization line became untenable. Is there good data on this outside of SA yet, accounting for vax status as well? Suppose something important to consider would be whether even significantly reduced vaxxed hospitalization with something that spreads as strongly as omicron still poses a threat to overwhelming already badly damaged health care systems. brugroffil fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 19:05
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brugroffil posted:
There is some evidence it's already a problem, see e.g. this thread: https://twitter.com/kit_delgadoMD/status/1477840193428377600 It's long, and kinda ... anecdotal, but it seems to lay out various cases and problems thy impose pretty thoroughly. Edit: in particular, other medical institutions may end up dumping those "with" cases on hospitals, overloading them and making it difficult for them to get timely and proper care for their primary concern. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 19:12
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OddObserver posted:There is some evidence it's already a problem, see e.g. this thread: Wasn’t this why everyone went into lockdown back in March 2020 in the first place? Something about “flattening the curve”.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:17
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Of vs with wouldn't matter if places published overall hospital utilization data but we don't usually get anything other than the covid numbers. Anyway it's pretty immaterial given long covid anyway, the burden of this disease is not yet upon us.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:20
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Wasn’t this why everyone went into lockdown back in March 2020 in the first place? Something about “flattening the curve”. State governors genuinely believe that they will be able to weather this storm, as if curves flatten without human action. Like a wave crashing upon the shore. Tide comes in, tide goes out. Humans have nothing to do with it.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:22
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Judakel posted:State governors genuinely believe that they will be able to weather this storm, as if curves flatten without human action. Like a wave crashing upon the shore. Tide comes in, tide goes out. Humans have nothing to do with it. They just threw up their hands and said "gently caress it" at delta and the hospitals kept on churning, so why not roll the dice one more time?
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Jan 4, 2022 19:23
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Rust Martialis posted:PSA - If you or someone you love are suffering Long COVID-related cognitive impairment, talk to your primary healthcare provider. Yeah that's good advice. Although apparently there is some disagreement in the medical community about whether or not long Covid is real, so he may just call you a daffy broad and send you on your way. How are u posted:100% agreed. I imagine that the ideal end-game here is milder upon milder strains over the next decade or whatever. 10 years from now hopefully it is simply...the flu. No that's also bad. The flu kills a lot of better. You are pining for double flu
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Jan 4, 2022 19:31
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Judakel posted:State governors genuinely believe that they will be able to weather this storm, as if curves flatten without human action. Like a wave crashing upon the shore. Tide comes in, tide goes out. Humans have nothing to do with it. Epidemic waves genuinely do work that way to some extend though. It's not like cases are always continuously rising exponentially forever until there are concrete measurements against it. Waves do burn out after a while, if a significant portion has been hit. Measurements are mostly there to keep them low and hopefully die out sooner. From the way you talk, it sounds like you assume that cases keep doubling until there are more ten times as many daily infections as people.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:34
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CmdrRiker posted:More information matters. Especially when we're dealing with the polar narratives of "They're inflating the numbers, it's not really that bad" versus "They're under reporting because capitalism." Concrete information matters. Something like With Covd vs Of Covid has so much gray area and room for interpretation that even if it's done with the best of intentions it's still most likely to produce a bunch of unreliable and misleading information cant cook creole bream posted:From the way you talk, it sounds like you assume that cases keep doubling until there are more daily infections than people. Reinfections happen and it seems like someone could have Delta and Omicron at the same time, so more infections than people is theoretically possible
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Jan 4, 2022 19:34
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I'm sure that most* people itt have good intentions and are only quibbling over metrics because they're enthusiastic pedants who can't resist a good quibble (and hey I sympathize, I wouldn't be here if I weren't an enthusiastic pedant who can't resist a good quibble myself). But I do question from a media analysis standpoint why this narrative is suddenly being pushed now, two years into the pandemic. Were people not breaking their legs and being found to have a mild case of covid in the hospital in March 2020? Of course they were, in fact red MAGA couldn't shut up about the fact that this does happen. So why didn't we feel the need to nitpick then, why was the reporting just fine then. Obviously, because it didn't change the story, while hospitals needed to know who was there on a vent and who had a broken leg, they knew that already, what the public needed to see is that hospital usage is going up. What's different now. The only difference I can see is that this time it's blue MAGA that spent months downplaying the virus and claiming cases have 'decoupled' from hospitalization and that now they're the ones who need to minimize the worsening numbers starting to show up thanks to their reckless and callous policies. *looking side-eye at the intentions of the people who were crowing 'decoupling' without waiting for the lag between detection and hospitalization though
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Jan 4, 2022 19:36
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CDC updated tracking has omicron at >95% of new cases in the US as of last week. Which probably means that as of today there’s basically no delta left https://twitter.com/DrLeanaWen/status/1478400170069004289?s=20 brugroffil posted:Is there good data on this outside of SA yet, accounting for vax status as well? Not sure if this is what you’re getting at, but NY provides a pretty good breakdown of cases, hospitalizations, and age-adjusted vaccine effectiveness for these two measures: https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data Clearly vaccination is still highly protective against hospitalization with omicron (VE >90%) even as the number of breakthrough hospitalizations increase. But to your point, this protection isn’t enough to prevent overwhelmed hospitals given exponential growth of the unvaccinated hospitalizations.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:38
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brugroffil posted:FWIW as of an hour ago this hospital is now on full bypass. Or I'm just explaining stuff and not making commentary about things especially when I currently live in one of the areas with the highest positivity rate per Capita? Like dude, I talk to people in ems across the country, and know people that are just as bad off as my area, you have entire areas on diversion which means no one's on diversion cause poo poo has no place to go you have stemis sitting in waiting rooms waiting on cath lab because there isn't beds, r/ems had a post about a full arrest being told to go to the triage desk for a room assignment while the Lucas machine was going full tilt At some point it's not about trying to downplay poo poo. It's explaining things to better provide some knowledge that sometimes it's not all as doom as people think and maybe the admissions are also because people are just sick as hell this last year. Yes the ERs are being obliterated they have been for over a year now and people are panicking filling the because they test positive and freak out. Ems is massively overwhelmed and you have wait times going into the hours along with squads holding the walls waiting on beds sometimes for over a day! The abuse of the ED systems and EMS is coming home to roost and it hit right as the newest wave hit. The hospitals are at capacity in many areas, hell my old hospital had almost 100 staff members out for covid symptoms last week and shut down an entire floor of the hospital because they couldn't safely staff it. But it doesn't mean I'm downplaying anything with it. I've been in this poo poo since it came to the us, got exposed in the ED when the CDC and government was waffling about masks and basically got told to go gently caress myself from the hospital administration in regards to my own safety. Providing some insight to why the numbers might actually matter is important, because asymptomatic does affect care in the hospital, and can allow for treatment of a serious issue that they did present for instead of solely focusing on covid and ignoring a potentially serious complication. Like, goddamn not everything is downplaying poo poo. Being a realist isn't being the toxic optimism that poo poo hole twitter accuses people of.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:41
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Oracle posted:And they mean EVER had cancer. One of my higher level bosses died of this just before vaccines were approved for non medical workers. He was in his mid fifties and his only preexisting condition was he beat prostate cancer over a decade previous. Bit "post hoc ergo propter hoc" here possibly? How do you know it was at all related?
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Jan 4, 2022 19:43
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cant cook creole bream posted:Epidemic waves genuinely do work that way to some extend though. It's not like cases are always continuously rising exponentially forever until there are concrete measurements against it. Waves do burn out after a while, if a significant portion has been hit. Wasn’t this what DeSantis and other republicans saying throughout all of 2020 and early 2021? I recall at that time the media and democrats clutching their pearls. I think what I mainly am getting at is consistency. There is a lack of it from leadership, the media, and ideologues playing political football. I know there is also a call for nuance but I don’t recall any of that during the Trump admin and the pile on Republican governors. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 19:46
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