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ThomasPaine posted:I do think it's worth bearing in mind that there are sometimes perfectly legitimate reasons for instinctive vaccine hesitancy, particularly amongst certain demographics. I very much doubt there's anything particularly nefarious happening with the covid shots beyond neoliberalism.txt, but I would be wary of writing off those anxieties as purely the product of stupidity or selfishness. (though they obviously are also factors) They are absolutely some people who have legitimate reasons for not being vaccinated (usually immuno compromised or some medical history of blood cloting.) But you are talking about a tiny, tiny number of people, much smaller than the number of actually unvaccinated people. Most of the ones who aren't vaccinated are dickheads. And what's worse (apart from the fact that they are spreading the disease and hurting other people. Because you know if they are refusing to get vaccinated they aren't going to be practicing proper hygiene. ) is they also make it so much harder for the people who genuinely can't get vaccinated. Edit: Heron pays the animal tax. Saw this big boy on the streets on the last week outside my old job. 
The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 13:16
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think there are legitimate reasons for not getting vaccinated when billions of other people have and are fine, actually. One example is a guy I spoke to who is chronically ill and can barely function as is and worries the vaccine will put them completely out of commission. He takes every other precaution possible and knows that he will get the vaccine he just needs to get to one of his "better periods" so if he gets side-effects he can take it.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:26
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Right but that's like, an actual medical reason, not "oh I don't know about them vaccines what if it's a big conspiracy I'm allowed to worry about that because I'm special" I'm sure there are people who know they are allergic to the eggs or whatever they screen you for in the pre-jab questions as well.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:27
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It's a medical reason for hesitancy, but it's not a medical exemption. People who don't want the vaccine because they're scared about the 5G spamming them with throbbing cock porn can certainly do one, of course. Although again the fault lies mainly in those who persuaded them the vaccine does that.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:29
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Barry Foster posted:Netflix costs money, and to have decent access to most things needs at least two extra services as well. Yeah if it was JUST get a Netflix subscription people would do that, and did when they had p much everything. The fact that everyone and their dog has their hand out for a separate subscription to see their content Is why piracy is back. Both cost and convenience because with Plex its all in one place.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:29
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As always it comes back to the fundamental principle of society, which is that the people are stupid.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:30
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*points at passing pigeon* smarter than the average Brit
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Jan 6, 2022 13:30
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Zalakwe posted:Good news everyone! Starmer has blocked the Conservatives every exit - they are now stuck in Government! Just imagined doing a dramatic reading of this article at a centrist dinner party, now I'm ready for oblivion
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Jan 6, 2022 13:31
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This time last week it was so warm I postponed a blood donation appointment because I legit thought I had a fever when I woke up, now there's warnings for snow storms. This is probably fine. (Also annoyed all the media outlets have avoided talking about "Yellow snow warnings", please at least let me have a tiny amount of puerile amusement as the planet dies)
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Jan 6, 2022 13:35
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feedmegin posted:Yeah if it was JUST get a Netflix subscription people would do that, and did when they had p much everything. The fact that everyone and their dog has their hand out for a separate subscription to see their content Is why piracy is back. Both cost and convenience because with Plex its all in one place. Failed Imagineer posted:Just imagined doing a dramatic reading of this article at a centrist dinner party, now I'm ready for oblivion
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Jan 6, 2022 13:39
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feedmegin posted:Yeah if it was JUST get a Netflix subscription people would do that, and did when they had p much everything. The fact that everyone and their dog has their hand out for a separate subscription to see their content Is why piracy is back. Both cost and convenience because with Plex its all in one place. Oh I get the frustration at how some series that were once on Netflix (particularly when they were the only game in town) being moved to another service. And I understand people not wanting to pay for multiple services. It's just when I hear people talk about setting up their own personal servers and "all" it requires are a portable hard drive linked onto a network, a VPN, maybe some cables, a way of streaming it onto your TV etc...I just tap out. I just don't have the time or effort to go through all that. I'll just pay for Netflix or Disney Plus and use that. And if they thing just isn't on any platform and it won't be out for ages, I will "get my cousin in the States to record it and ship me the VHS tape" and stick it on a USB on the TV. But that's more of a once off thing. Setting up my own media server and trying to maintain it looks like way to much work and hassle to justify it. Just like the hassle in getting black market vaccine Certs as opposed to, you know, getting the vaccine.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:39
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What you have to understand is that computer people have a terrible sickness where they find all that stuff perversely fulfilling, hence how once we started talking about it, the recommendation of increasingly complex methods of achieving the same thing began pouring in.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:42
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Whitby Cough Weekend
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Jan 6, 2022 13:42
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I’m baffled that some blu rays are still region locked. I thought that poo poo died when HD standards became a thing.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:44
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The Question IRL posted:Oh I get the frustration at how some series that were once on Netflix (particularly when they were the only game in town) being moved to another service. And I understand people not wanting to pay for multiple services. It's really easy if you know what you're doing, and only mildly difficult if you don't. I mean, it really doesn't matter, I guess I just find it weird that you thought it was the nearest comparison to a guy using a fake arm to avoid getting vaccinated, which is genuine hilarious looney tunes rube goldberg poo poo
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Jan 6, 2022 13:45
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Apparently Raynor did pretty well at PMQs yesterday in for Starmer. One funny tidbit is that when Ed Davey (the leader of the Lib Dems, for those who don't pay attention to inconsequential joke parties) was called to speak, Hoyle called him "Ed Balls" instead before correcting himself.
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Jan 6, 2022 13:52
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Setting up a media server is pretty low effort tbh. An old pc with a network share will do the job. You don't need to build some custom Raspberry Pi adblocking/vpn/piracy box (though they are cool and I definitely will get round to it one day).
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Jan 6, 2022 13:57
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https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1479030445635428352 So it seems that 'trial by jury' is now deemed a legal loophole but Fabricant et al.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:04
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josh04 posted:What you have to understand is that computer people have a terrible sickness where they find all that stuff perversely fulfilling, hence how once we started talking about it, the recommendation of increasingly complex methods of achieving the same thing began pouring in. I have this illness but I keep it to the plex and the nas threads lest I poo poo this one up 'midazolam!?' loving right. I don't fancy getting intubated /extubated without it, eesh
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Jan 6, 2022 14:05
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There are pretty much always legitimate reasons for, in particular, black people to be hesitant to do literally anything that the state says is a good idea. Also the medical profession, which has an extensive & well-known history of ignoring things affecting black people. It's easy to write off the unvaccinated as conspiracy nutters, but that's largely because the relatively small number of (white middle-class far right) antivax mental cases (a)won't shut up about it, and (b)get signal boosted by the media, who simultaneously ignore all the black and Pakistani voices that, in reality, comprise the least vaccinated demographics. Yes I am aware of the irony of this wrt Covid in particular, that doesn't mean that some degree of hesitancy in those demographics isn't perfectly reasonable. The reason I'm making this point is because framing the issue as sensible vaccinated people vs far right conspiracy nutters is unhelpful, when in reality the nutters are pretty inconsequential compared to demographics that actually have a reasonable basis to be hesitant, are disproportionately affected by Covid anyway, and also disproportionately likely to live in inner cities and work jobs that put them at even greater risk. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 14:06
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Barry Foster posted:It's really easy if you know what you're doing, and only mildly difficult if you don't. I'm not saying they are a 1:1 comparison, since piracy only effects you while not getting vaccinated effects society. And also one alternative solution is effective and the other is not. Where I do see a comparison is if you break it down into a problem/solution situation. Example 1. Problem: In Italy to do most things in public, you need a vaccine cert. Simple solution: Get vaccinated and they give you a cert. Complex solution: Bring along fake arms and pretend to get vaccinated so you have a false vaccine cert. Example 2. Problem: A poster asks if he should get a streaming subscription to watch stuff on his TV. Simple Solution: Pick Netflix/Prime Video/ Disney+. Try it out for a month to see if you like it. Complex solution: Build your own media server and stream the contents to your TV. Here is a multiple step by step guide on how to do so.... In both cases they are more complicated solutions (and in the case of the streaming, if you get it working it will solve your problem without creating too many additional ones. The same cannot be said by el fakeo Armstrong.) My point is, why go to all that trouble when a much simpler solution exists? You may not see setting up a server as being that hard. But is it something that you could see your parent doing? I have to setup a Now TV subscription I got my Dad as a Christmas gift for him. And all that entails is putting some info on a website and plugging a stick into a TV. But I know he couldn't do it.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:12
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The booster completely knocked me out for 2 days (not being able to move around on the bed due to pain knocked out) and I still have painfully swollen lymph nodes under my arm - which from what I read could last weeks and makes any exercise or manual labour with my left hand painful as gently caress. Apparently it's pretty rare (0.5%) and a sign of strong immune response though so  at least I'll be better protected?e: nm Private Speech fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 14:13
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Also remember that medicine, and public health in particular, often function as structures of state power and coercion, and tend to replicate the class relationships of broader society. Stuff like the Tuskegee experiment is probably one of the more egregious examples here, and while I don't think there's anything like that happening with Covid you can absolutely see why marginalised groups might be reluctant to trust the authorities. It's political as well as medical though, would an undocumented immigrant feel safe engaging with the NHS, for example? OwlFancier posted:I don't think there are legitimate reasons for not getting vaccinated when billions of other people have and are fine, actually. Big Thalidomide '59 energy here, honestly. Obviously the dangers are very low, but they're not nonexistent, especially in the long term. All medical procedures carry risk, they're gambles to some extent even when the alternative is likely far worse. Hell, there's even precedent for vaccines doing harm way back in the 1970s swine flu epidemic. Even if the authorities still claimed the programme was a overall success, you can't blame people for being worried about potentially violent side-effects, especially with a drug that was new-ish biotech and was rushed out very quickly. Ofc we can look at that and say 'yeah there's a lot you can do when you put unlimited resources into it' but other people aren't going to immediately reach that understanding. Better science communication is very important here, and there are also other cool things you could do like providing vaccines to community groups and offering the opportunity for paperwork-free shots. That said I do pretty much agree that most people refusing the vaccine today are doing so for ideological reasons. Nonetheless I really don't think sneery dismissiveness is the right angle here, if anything it's counterproductive because it's easy for your conspiracist weirdoes to legitimise their grievances by playing the victim to their impressionable audiences.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:13
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Lord Ludikrous posted:I’m baffled that some blu rays are still region locked. I thought that poo poo died when HD standards became a thing. reminder that it was once leaked from some high profile meeting that 'globalisation must not benefit the consumer'.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:13
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The Question IRL posted:Simple Solution: Pick Netflix/Prime Video/ Disney+. Try it out for a month to see if you like it.  advocates were saying to pirate poo poo because it's easier. I certainly was. I liked just having all the stuff I wanted to watch on Netflix or iplayer, but now it's a big hassle so it's back to piracy.ngl though I did get a lol out of the immediate response to me saying that being Total Meatlove posted:With a day's worth of effort, you can build this for about £40 and £5-10/month ongoing (VPN, Usenet) and have an entirely automated, secure, homebrew streaming system.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:17
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I don't agree with 99% of the reasons I've heard against getting vaccinated but you can cut people some slack when it comes to not trusting what this government is telling you to do. Even now I'm not certain they haven't hosed it up in some way, buying dodgy ingredients off some tory donor, buying used needles off the Saudis in exchange for nukes etc.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:22
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Borrovan posted:I thought most of the I get it. You start with Windows Media Player as a gateway drug and then you're buying a 42U rack from a chocolate factory outside Frome and trying to fit all the panels in your car.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:22
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Private Speech posted:
Show your working. I can to some degree sympathise with Djokovic not wanting to get the vaccine because of side effects. I'm recovering from a rotator cuff dysfunction in my shoulder; I got my booster in that arm and I lost all my progress. For someone who uses their shoulder for a living, that would be a big problem. But he doesn't want to avoid it for those reasons. He's just another antivaxxer dickhead and as such, he can suffer.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:22
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ThomasPaine posted:AThat said I do pretty much agree that most people refusing the vaccine today are doing so for ideological reasons. Nonetheless I really don't think sneery dismissiveness is the right angle here, if anything it's counterproductive because it's easy for your conspiracist weirdoes to legitimise their grievances by playing the victim to their impressionable audiences. Stuff like black women being four times more likely to die in childbirth & twice as likely to have stillbirths basically seems to be because the medical profession as a whole doesn't give much of a gently caress about black women so nobody really looks into it, no poo poo people are hesitant to get vaccinated imo.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:25
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Jedit posted:Show your working. Official CDC US gov stats: CDC posted:More than 496 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through December 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 10,688 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. e: Although reported != proven.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:25
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Butternubs posted:I don't agree with 99% of the reasons I've heard against getting vaccinated but you can cut people some slack when it comes to not trusting what this government is telling you to do. I don't trust the government at all, about anything, including covid. I do trust the NHS.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:26
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Barry Foster posted:I don't trust the government at all, about anything, including covid. Borrovan posted:Stuff like black women being four times more likely to die in childbirth & twice as likely to have stillbirths basically seems to be because the medical profession as a whole doesn't give much of a gently caress about black women so nobody really looks into it,
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Jan 6, 2022 14:27
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Borrovan posted:Is this actually true though? You might be right actually, it was an instinctive feeling but now I think about it there's a decent chance I've just been hoodwinked by a loud minority. I'm sure there'll be actual studies in the works breaking this all down. Unfortunately the loud minority, as we're seeing everywhere, really does drum up hostility towards people with perfectly legitimate concerns. E: 100% agree with your general point though ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 14:28
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Private Speech posted:Official CDC US gov stats: Also, died after receiving that vaccine does not mean died because of the vaccine, and it's very disingenuous and extremely dangerous to say "died from the vaccines." And please for the love of mercy do not say this is saying "died WITH covid, not OF covid" for the vaccines.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:30
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Borrovan posted:Me too but oh yeah, absolutely, I'm absolutely speaking from a privileged position and was speaking purely personally/with regard to the gammon brigade
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Jan 6, 2022 14:30
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ThomasPaine posted:You might be right actually, it was an instinctive feeling but now I think about it there's a decent chance I've just been hoodwinked by a loud minority. I'm sure there'll be actual studies in the works breaking this all down. I mean our media loves to signal boost batshit white people, especially if they're racist.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:31
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Tesseraction posted:Also, died after receiving that vaccine does not mean died because of the vaccine, and it's very disingenuous and extremely dangerous to say "died from the vaccines." Reported to VAERS specifically means died where the vaccine was suspected as the cause, significantly more than 10000 people died in the US in a year. 2.9 million people died in that year in the US, with majority receiving the vaccine.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:31
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Private Speech posted:Reported to VAERS specifically means died where the vaccine was suspected as the cause, significantly more than 10000 people died in the US in a year. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html quote:Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.
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Jan 6, 2022 14:32
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that's better use for them than bonfires imo
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Jan 6, 2022 14:33
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Again, 2.9 million people died in the US that year, it's not just "anyone who got the vaccine and died". It also doesn't mean it was proven and even less so the only cause (the website lists only 9 cases where otherwise healthy people provably died of it, mostly due to blood clots). And I'm by no means antivaxx and got the vaccines within days of being eligible. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 14:35
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