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Endogamy just makes genealogy easier I'm my nephews cousin like 5 times already
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Sep 24, 2021 23:19
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Carthag Tuek posted:Endogamy just makes genealogy easier Only if you have documentation to show exactly where and how. On the lines where the paper trail goes cold before you get out of the 19th century it just makes things 10 times harder.
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Sep 26, 2021 04:01
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Oh poo poo RootsMagic8 IS FINALLY HERE! (this is like the genealogy software equivalent of Duke Nuke'm Forever as far as release dates go, except not as bad).
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Oct 1, 2021 15:32
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I'm kindof a grognard so I use geditcom which is made by a lone greybeard. The interface is pretty barebones, but the thing I love is that it uses gedcom internally, so there's no conversion & I can gently caress around with the file in a text editor if I think something's easier that way, or use like weird unix tools to tranform the data. That said, what makes RootsMagic stand out in your opinion? I honestly have no idea what "modern" genealogy software even does lol
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Oct 1, 2021 16:19
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Carthag Tuek posted:I'm kindof a grognard so I use geditcom which is made by a lone greybeard. The interface is pretty barebones, but the thing I love is that it uses gedcom internally, so there's no conversion & I can gently caress around with the file in a text editor if I think something's easier that way, or use like weird unix tools to tranform the data. you'd probably like it actually if you're using a command line unix tool actually. Its got a learning curve but its pretty powerful, it does layouts and trees and you grab branches and put them into individual databases and strip personal data before you upload as a gedcom and it does sourcing and interfaces with your accounts on the various genealogy websites (familysearch, ancestry, myheritage, I forget which others) so it can up and download all your sources there (which is really nice on ancestry for example because when you let your subscription lapse all the records you've linked to break until you re re up, rootsmagic will download all the pictures and cites and etc and keep them connected). If you use Rootsmagic as your primary source and just periodically upload to those various sites it keeps your data clean too but I'm a bit too lazy for that. Cons are it can be a bit of a pain in the rear end to clean up broken links and duplicates and such, though that's more my fault honestly my tree is an ancient stripped copy from whatever the old program ancestry used back in the day was and I need to clean it up but since its just the living folks I kind of shrug and go 'eh' and deal since I'm more concerned with the dead, though lately as I link in DNA matches and fit them on my tree its becoming more of an issue. Anyone all those issues are in 7 8's supposed to be this holy grail but of course they release it during one of the busiest weeks of the year for me right after something big breaks at work because that is the goddamn story of mine, I'm sure all the websites I've been waiting to dig into but didn't want to spend the money on will have free access this weekend too since I'm booked solid. Anyway you can download it for free and check it out, its actually pretty cheap for genealogy software if you want to buy it too (I think I paid 40 bucks when I bought 7 and got the option of a free upgrade to 8). If you don't you can browse the features list between the free and paid versions here. Oracle fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 16:31
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thx for the info i absolutely dont want whatever app i use to be online or tbh even be able to be online, so. i mean i there are interface quirks in the thing i use where i sometimes think "this could be easier" but nope. no internet. it does sound neat, but thats a dealbreaker for me sorry lol
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Oct 2, 2021 00:07
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I am fleshing out some of my direct lineages' siblings and fell down a weird rabbit hole. My GGGG Grandfather was born in the Carolinas, moved to the state I live in, and had a son who joined the 16th Infantry Greenville Regiment of the South Carolina Infantry only to die 3 and a half years later on a mountain that's about 10 minutes from my house. Or at least I think it's him. There's the issue of him being born in GA but enlisting in SC, but that can be explained away. What's more difficult to rationalize is his tombstone in a local Confederate cemetery is inscribed 'Son of WS & BT' when I'm showing his parents as David and Nancy. I didn't even know tombstones put parents' initials on there. Why can't all research be that easy. That would rule him out except he's got a really weird name - Green B. [my last name]. How many Green B. [my last name]'s could have possibly fought for the South? Turns out 2. There was another one in Tennessee, but he survived the war. So now I'm leaning towards a clerical error on his tombstone. It looks really old and was probably made shortly after he died and maybe records were a little spotty what with Sherman and all. It's odd because no one claims him. Usually you can find a half dozen family trees of varying accuracy claiming any well documented Civil War vet, but this guy's got an 18 page muster record and zero family trees. He's not even in my official tree yet since I just started researching him. 
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Nov 7, 2021 23:02
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Krispy Wafer posted:I am fleshing out some of my direct lineages' siblings and fell down a weird rabbit hole. My GGGG Grandfather was born in the Carolinas, moved to the state I live in, and had a son who joined the 16th Infantry Greenville Regiment of the South Carolina Infantry only to die 3 and a half years later on a mountain that's about 10 minutes from my house. Does/did he have any widow or someone attempting to claim survivor benefits? That would be your best bet to figure out who the hell this guy is. Also its entirely possible you have found a cousin whose documents were lost to Sherman because names that weird absolutely do travel through families (as you found with your TN guy). I'd check your GGGG Grandfather's brothers kids with either of those initials to see if one is maybe missing. If not, go up a level and check again. Green may well be a maiden name of a wife at some level, or a close family friend who did something awesome like save someone's life and in return they named their kid after him (or his surname) and so the name was born.
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Nov 8, 2021 22:00
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Oracle posted:Does/did he have any widow or someone attempting to claim survivor benefits? That would be your best bet to figure out who the hell this guy is. He was 21 or 22 when he died so no widow. I’ll delve a bit deeper and try to find a Green on the maternal side somewhere. I can’t go older than my GGGG Grandfather because that family tree trial is ice cold. I even joined the National Associate of My Last Name and submitted DNA and no one else shares my lineage. We’re a completely separate line that has nothing to do with anyone else even though I can trace the tree back to 1804 with 100% confidence. It’s weird. I fear if I look too closely I’m going to find a lot of inbreeding.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:50
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Pfft go back far enough you’ll definitely find it, it’s a when not an if especially if you have colonial ancestry.
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Nov 9, 2021 05:05
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Of course seeing the same ancestors pop up multiple times is inevitable if you go back far enough, but that's just a mathematical certainty for any human being. You cannot possibly have billions of separate ancestors by the xth generation, if there weren't even that many humans alive at that point in time. There is actually remarkably little inbreeding as such within the Western tradition. I feel like I've made this post before, but both my mother and father are from the same small area near a provincial town in West Flanders. As far as I can tell, my ancestors hadn't budged from there since the Middle Ages. My father has been dabbling in our genealogy, and not only do you have to go back very far before you start seeing the same names pop up multiple times, I don't think they share a single ancestor in common so far. I might have plugged this before as well, but an excellent book in this regard is The WEIRDest People in the World by Joseph Henrich. There's an entire chapter about medieval incest taboos in Western Europe, and how they were encouraged by the Church at the time. Some of the edicts were downright ridiculous, like you weren't allowed to marry your 5th cousin, which would have excluded a huge percentage of potential marriage partners if they actually had records that good.
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Nov 9, 2021 12:20
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The Danish laws counted for 3 generations, but also included in-laws and step-relations, so you couldn't marry the great granddaughter of the brother of your grandma's second husband (unless you had royal permission).
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Nov 9, 2021 16:08
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Oracle posted:If not, go up a level and check again. Green may well be a maiden name of a wife at some level, or a close family friend who did something awesome like save someone's life and in return they named their kid after him (or his surname) and so the name was born. Green must have been a really popular family name because I branched out and one of Green’s brothers named their kid Green in 1861. It wasn’t even in honor of their dead brother because the elder Green didn’t die until 1864. Everyone really liked that name. I guess they were…green with envy.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:00
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I guess dad jokes are in the spirit of genealogy if not the letter.
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Nov 10, 2021 04:03
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Working my way through a police case about some counterfeit money involving some of my ancestors. My ancestor, a papermaker, bought some sacks of junk paper from the national bank to use as raw material for new paper. Among this, they found some counterfeit banknotes and put them aside (there were multiple notes, both ones clearly stamped "false" and ones very badly made). I don't know if they intended to return them to the bank or they had other motives, but it doesn't matter since a woman who worked for them got hold of one and was caught attempting to use it. She claims they used it to pay her in advance, they claim she stole it. Anyway, one thing stuck out to me: when the police showed up at the bank to interview everybody about their trash disposal policies and so on, the cleaning lady wasn't there & they had to come back and interview her when she came into work the following day because the bankers didn't know where she lived. That's pretty wild lol. I'm preeeetty sure you can't get a job at a bank now without a known address, much less the national bank. tbf, many people in the city moved every 6 months back then. Not sure why, probably they got evicted by scummy landlords. But still, you'd think they would require her to tell them her address every time or something
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Nov 19, 2021 14:28
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Carthag Tuek posted:Working my way through a police case about some counterfeit money involving some of my ancestors. My ancestor, a papermaker, bought some sacks of junk paper from the national bank to use as raw material for new paper. Among this, they found some counterfeit banknotes and put them aside (there were multiple notes, both ones clearly stamped "false" and ones very badly made). I don't know if they intended to return them to the bank or they had other motives, but it doesn't matter since a woman who worked for them got hold of one and was caught attempting to use it. She claims they used it to pay her in advance, they claim she stole it. I think it is Discworld where lots of poor people move every 6 months, because of climate. In the summer rooms in the hot attics are cheap and rooms in the cool cellars are expensive, and in the winter it flips and rents go up in the attics and down in the cellars. It makes sense that could happen IRL any place where landlords are free to raise the rent at will.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:02
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Didn't think of climate, that's a real possibility! Forgot to mention that in olden times, moving day was 3rd Tuesday in April/October (later changed to May/Nov 1st), so a short contract would naturally be 6 months. Obviously contracts could be renewed, and while I don't have numbers, I definitely see a lot of people moving pretty much every moving day.
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Nov 22, 2021 09:15
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 When your GGGG Grandpa fails to get an audience with Bismarck
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Dec 10, 2021 20:47
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Nice detail, lol. Is the manuscript extrant?
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Dec 10, 2021 22:21
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I’m not sure, it’s from one of my dads emails to me yesterday. Friedrich was my dad’s dad’s mom’s mom’s mom’s father. Findagrave has a slightly different obit so I guess different newspapers covered his death? Massive tree stump headstone too. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/117747189/friedrich-weyer quote:He was a man of more than ordinary intelligence and was well and favorable known in this city where he has many friends.
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Dec 11, 2021 15:46
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Found some ancestors 1650–1775 that carry a byname that could mean "Son of Feyd". Am I a Harkonnen? It's completely unknown in the onomastic literature, so I'm in contact with a professor at the University of Copenhagen who finds it very interesting 
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Jan 5, 2022 12:35
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So the UK census data for 1921 has been released today, great news right? Except you have to pay £3.50 per individual record you want to access, and that's for a transcript, so if you want to view an image of the original record (which is quite useful as names often end up mistranscribed in the digitisation process), you have to stump up even more. This is because the National Archives partnered up with Findmypast to digitise the records, who apparently weren't content with the £10.5M of taxpayer money they were paid. And that £3.50 "microtransaction", as findmypast call it, is on top of any existing monthly or annual subscription you might have. Oh, you can access the census data for free if you go to actual physical records offices, but hardly any of them are offering that at present. Sounding very bitter here but it's a bit frustrating as apparently the next UK census to be made available won't be until 2052 (no census in 1941 and the 1931 records were destroyed in a fire).
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Jan 6, 2022 16:22
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Owlkill posted:So the UK census data for 1921 has been released today, great news right? This is goddamn bullshit, right here. Those are government records. Fuckin' Tories.
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Jan 6, 2022 16:32
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Wow, that's incredibly lovely! The only partnerships the Danish archives have made have been like with FamilySearch (they scan/photograph documents and hand over the images in exchange for getting to keep a copy as well) or Ancestry (they got access to church records in exchange for crowdsourcing transcriptions and providing the transcription to the archive as well as free search access from Danish IPs). I think it might even be illegal to paywall the data.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:53
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Kindof relatedly-ish, Swedish paysite arkivdigital.se has expanded their population search index so it now covers 1800–1947. For those who don't know, it's based on husförhörslängder and församlingsböcker which are generally super comprehensive. They're basically yearly censuses taken by the priest in each parish. The digitized images of these (and church records etc) were opened to free access on the Swedish Riksarkivets Digitala Forskarsalen in 2018. In response, arkivdigital.se has pivoted to providing higher quality images and, imo more importantly, search indexes. A slight annoyance is that the indexes are created in partnership with MyHeritage & I often come across errors, but it's better than nothing & they've helped me out a lot over the years. Their birth/marriage/death indexes have also expanded a lot, and for some areas of Sweden cover basically every record up to 1940. I've been trying to find my gx-grandma who is said to have gone home to Sweden after her husband died in 1814, and so far no luck. It could be a bad transcription, or she's in an area where the HFL has been lost to a fire, or she hid from the priest, or she didn't even go to Sweden, or ............  (also it's a bit annoying that I still can't limit my search by record year, though I suggested it a year ago; it's worthless to get hits from the 1890s when you're looking from a person in the 1810s).Side note the Danish link-lives population project is gonna launch their search soon! Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 22:26
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Carthag Tuek posted:Kindof relatedly-ish, Swedish paysite arkivdigital.se has expanded their population search index so it now covers 1800–1947. For those who don't know, it's based on husförhörslängder and församlingsböcker which are generally super comprehensive. They're basically yearly censuses taken by the priest in each parish. The digitized images of these (and church records etc) were opened to free access on the Swedish Riksarkivets Digitala Forskarsalen in 2018. In response, arkivdigital.se has pivoted to providing higher quality images and, imo more importantly, search indexes. A slight annoyance is that the indexes are created in partnership with MyHeritage & I often come across errors, but it's better than nothing & they've helped me out a lot over the years. Their birth/marriage/death indexes have also expanded a lot, and for some areas of Sweden cover basically every record up to 1940. Still doesn't help me, I need one of those catty bitch priests who would annotate people like 'X, the known fornicator and purported father of the bastard N, by the harlot J, left this parish in disgrace in June of this year for Nora Borgfarsaling.'
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Jan 7, 2022 22:57
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Yeah sometimes I wish more priests were assholes (I mean I don't really, but sometimes they leave better records) Found a burial the other day that's basically "June 11, 1640: I buried that bastard" and I was like wtf Turns out he wrote it like that because he's referring to a prior baptismal entry on the same page, but it just sounds extra mean, like good riddance to that little poo poo (which tbf he probably did think).
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Jan 7, 2022 23:10
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Carthag Tuek posted:Yeah sometimes I wish more priests were assholes (I mean I don't really, but sometimes they leave better records) Yeah they really hated them some out of wedlock children.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:29
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Most Danish priests would write that the child was uægte (ie their parents were "un-married", though folk etymology often parses this as "un-genuine") and it's rare you get one who writes horeunge ("whore's child", the latter noun is used for both humans and animals, it basically means "youngling") In many cases it might be that, legally, having sex out of wedlock would be lejermål (loosely translates to "a [legal] case of laying [together]"), and having extramarital sex is hor (whoring), but it's an old legal distinction which might not always have been intended when the priest chose their words. There was also at komme for tidligt (literally "to come too soon" lol) for when a child is conceived after the betrothal but before the wedding.
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Jan 8, 2022 00:02
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Carthag Tuek posted:Most Danish priests would write that the child was uægte (ie their parents were "un-married", though folk etymology often parses this as "un-genuine") and it's rare you get one who writes horeunge ("whore's child", the latter noun is used for both humans and animals, it basically means "youngling") The priests in Canada (at least the French ones) were judgey as all hell. Even to the point where a guy marries a woman he had 4 kids with and retroactively gets them all baptized (presumably because they've been out in the hinterlands where priests don't come often since it would all often happen the same day) they'll say something akin to 'so and so finally made an honest woman of X and had her bastard children belatedly recognized on this day of our lord blah blah blah also the fifth child, which was conceived out of wedlock, is baptized as <name>'
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Jan 8, 2022 00:22
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Yeah that's totally unnecessary smug "I told you so" type poo poo, but super useful for genealogy as you say
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Jan 8, 2022 00:30
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Carthag Tuek posted:Found some ancestors 1650–1775 that carry a byname that could mean "Son of Feyd". Am I a Harkonnen? Well, the plot thickens. I have now found some people in a nearby parish that also use the strange name, and for the first time I've seen it used as a given name (ie. just "Feyd")! I can't wait to hear what the researchers say about the name!!!
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Jan 14, 2022 10:14
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Carthag Tuek posted:Well, the plot thickens. I have now found some people in a nearby parish that also use the strange name, and for the first time I've seen it used as a given name (ie. just "Feyd")! I can't wait to hear what the researchers say about the name!!! That is interesting. Are you pursuing any DNA evidence as to the possibility of relation with them?
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Jan 14, 2022 17:30
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Oracle posted:That is interesting. Are you pursuing any DNA evidence as to the possibility of relation with them? Not sure that's even possible... So far I have confirmed that all known direct male descendants of the family in my own line die out in the early 1700s, a brother to one of my great-6 grandmothers. Their father was the one carrying the name, and he was an extramarital child who got the name from his maternal grandfather, and he was also the only grandchild of that man. So, direct Y- and m-DNA to anyone at all are both straight out. In the other parish, I have tentatively identified one daughter who survived to age 15 in 1755 (she is called a different byname at the time, but has the right age), all the other children also died young. They were all either extremely sickly or extremely poor (both of which track with a possible connection to the tailor trade, which tbf does appear to be a commonality in both families). It's likely that the only living descendants are through the same extramarital child as I am, and DNA tests could only prove or disprove the lineage up to that child. If a different match did show up, it would be impossible to figure out if it was through that line or some other line due to burned parish records
Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jan 14, 2022 |
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Jan 14, 2022 17:57
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drat. It could be possible through regular DNA (though unlikely at that level of distance), how much endogamy are you looking at?
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Jan 14, 2022 18:23
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My great-6 grandmother had 3 sons, who iirc all have descendants to this day, but I'm not aware of any endogamy — not any going down my line anyway, I'm through her son's daughter who moved to another island & from there I've tracked everyone that comes into the family back to about the same generation. I mean it's definitely there just by the size of the country, but it would be at least 7-8 generations before my g6m, ie. 2-3 generations before the first guy with "the name". The endogamy is all in the fishing village on my mom's side lol
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Jan 14, 2022 18:41
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Carthag Tuek posted:My great-6 grandmother had 3 sons, who iirc all have descendants to this day, but I'm not aware of any endogamy — not any going down my line anyway, I'm through her son's daughter who moved to another island & I've tracked everyone that comes into the family back to about the same generation. Well that'd at least make it easy to separate out lines lol
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Jan 14, 2022 18:42
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Oracle posted:Well that'd at least make it easy to separate out lines lol Yeah, it would lol Another thing that's weird about that line is, I've found literally none of my ancestor's family as sponsors, witnesses, or godparents to weddings or baptisms. I've been through pretty much the entire parish records from 1650 to 1700 (they're surprisingly good and detailed), but my family is not mentioned at all except for their own events. The first man with the name dies young when their 3 kids are under 5, and his wife lives on as a widow for over 40 years without remarrying which is insanely rare at the time, at least in Denmark. It feels like they're outsiders in some way, but also otoh she had resources to put one son through latin school?! They're a conundrum for sure
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Jan 14, 2022 18:52
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Carthag Tuek posted:Yeah, it would lol Could they have possibly been Catholic and thus kind of a pariah for noping out of the reformation? (I have no idea of Danish religious history so I'm kind of spitballing there, but it wouldn't be the first time I saw some inconvenient religious affiliation conveniently swept under the rug).
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Jan 14, 2022 19:03
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Catholicism was illegal at the time (with an exception for soldiers hired from Germany, but they had their own chaplain in Copenhagen). I suppose they could be crypto-papists, that would be pretty wild lol. But now that I think about it, a daughter in the 4th generation, the first of the family eligible to go to lutheran confirmation when it was introduced in 1736, is noted by the priest as having been recalcitrant, though it's unclear what he means. It might just be she was uncomfortable with having to learn a bunch of catechisms & stuff. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 09:24
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