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HenryEx posted:Fun fact: if you shinespark into a slope that's usually too steep to walk on (meaning, Samus usually slides down immediately), you can speedbooster-run (or roll, in morph ball) up that slope. That can enable you to get several items early. On the one shinespark puzzle (sorry forget which area) where you run left from an elevator room and duck and go up a diagonal pipe I thought you were supposed to space jump up the pipe but kept accidentally running up it instead. I didn't realize you're supposed to do it that way for the puzzle I don't have any desire to speedrun the game or follow sequence breaking strats from youtube by the letter but it might be interesting to play the game a second time and just try to get creative with stuff like that. Thanks this should be helpful.
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Jan 5, 2022 18:42
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Also one thing that kind of puzzles me reading comments about the game is all the people talking about Escue being a really difficult boss. It only took me a couple of tries compared to other bosses and just used flash shift to evade his attacks and didn't find him to be very hard. Granted I wasn't in the habit of using flash shift at that point in the game but the first chozo warrior fight a bit before that forced me to start using it. For me all the chozo fights around that part of the game were much harder. Especially the 2 robot chozo fight after escue which was a nightmare until I tried the storm missiles.
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Jan 6, 2022 06:20
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One thing I've noticed is that Flash Step as a combat dodge doesn't seem to register for a lot of folks. Watching LPs and such people just don't seem to use it outside of certain areas.
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Jan 6, 2022 07:00
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I didn’t use flash step at all on my first play through besides getting past the gates. It only really clicked on my hard mode run.
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Jan 6, 2022 07:13
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Samus’s flash dodge move is now an indispensable part of her toolkit and a really big part of why her mobility in this game is so widely regarded. It’s the reason the game really clicks for me, I use it for everything all the time.
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Jan 6, 2022 08:33
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ImpAtom posted:One thing I've noticed is that Flash Step as a combat dodge doesn't seem to register for a lot of folks. Watching LPs and such people just don't seem to use it outside of certain areas. There are too many movement options in this game that come too quickly to register. Flash step was indispensable when I got it but I often would forget it existed after I'd got the space jump because double jumping (Or at least, attempting to double jump in my case) is a more intuitive and common option to dodge attacks.
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Jan 6, 2022 11:40
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I didn’t use flash step at all on my first play through besides getting past the gates. It only really clicked on my hard mode run. I can't imagine doing the chozo warrior fights without flash shift, it was the first time I used it in combat outside of the shutter gates I think. And then just because it popped up in the loading screen tips a lot. The game is obviously trying to remind you about flash shifts with all the shutter gates before the first robot chozo fight but I still didn't really catch on until the Elun boss The really annoying thing about the controls in this game is that I keep accidentally activating the cloak, especially during fast paced bosses like those. I guess my thumb is inadvertently clicking in the right stick while using the face buttons I got to 96% items today with the remaining ones being the top left Ferenia morph ball tunnel, Cataris wall jump area, Dairon top left energy tank wall jumps and Burenia shinespark tunnel. I don't really get the speed boost wall jumps at all so I might just give up on those. As for the Burenia tunnel I spent a lot of time practicing it starting with shooting through the beam blocks and doing a mid-air shinespark and not having much luck with that, then I read someone in a Youtube comment just saying you could stand on the blocks and shinespark diagonally down to the slope. Made me feel pretty dumb since there was already a shinespark puzzle that had to be done like that. Will try it tomorrow and maybe just settle for 97% and make a copy of the save file if I really want to try the wall jump ones later.
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Jan 6, 2022 16:33
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Natural 20 posted:There are too many movement options in this game that come too quickly to register. Flash step was indispensable when I got it but I often would forget it existed after I'd got the space jump because double jumping (Or at least, attempting to double jump in my case) is a more intuitive and common option to dodge attacks. But the space jump and the phase shift are totally different mobility tools that do totally different things, and the game is designed around using them in conjunction, not just dropping one when you get the other.
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Jan 6, 2022 16:35
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I guess it's all the Souls games but the second I found that ability I just thought it was cool Metroid has burst movement now
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Jan 6, 2022 16:39
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the moment I got the flash step I was spamming that poo poo all over the place
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Jan 6, 2022 16:51
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Bust Rodd posted:But the space jump and the phase shift are totally different mobility tools that do totally different things, and the game is designed around using them in conjunction, not just dropping one when you get the other. I do understand that they're different tools for different purposes. But recognise: Flash shift as a movement option has a relatively unique input for a dash compared to the industry standard across most 2D games. Typically dashes are mapped, or can be mapped to a shoulder button and don't require directional input to work. You push the dash button and you move in the direction you're facing at the point of input. If you're going really oldschool then they can also be mapped to double tapping the analogue stick in the dash direction. Flash Shift can't be mapped to a shoulder and requires you to hold the button and then input a direction. Metroid's double jump is; for all that it's a diva about when you're spinning and the exact input time, something that maps to the industry standard for a double jump. You jump and push the jump button again to do a double jump. If you are pressed by an enemy and off balance then it is much easier as a player to go to the same input you have been doing for years to get around it because it requires a lot less thought to do, even if it's the inferior option. Typically what would happen to me is that I'd fight a boss, die a bunch until I figured out the attacks and then remember the Flash shift existed when I wasn't in panic mode any more.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:16
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Natural 20 posted:Flash Shift can't be mapped to a shoulder and requires you to hold the button and then input a direction. This is probably gonna be pedantic, but that's not "required" at all. You can already have a direction held (which is you're almost certainly doing if you're space jumping), and then just tap the flash shift button. It's fairly intuitive to get the height you need to avoid an attack with jumping and then get horizontal distance with the flash shift while never letting go of the direction you had held down initially. TaurusOxford fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 17:24
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“Dash” being Circle/B is industry standard for the entire playstation/Xbox ecosystem of action games and also the souls games, what games are you playing where the industry standard dash is on a bumper? Samus having her Dash on A is clearly Nintendo reading the room, the button on the right side of the pad has been dash for at least a decade. Edit: I guess Hollow Knight and Blasphemous both do it that way.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:19
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I can't think of any other metroidvania off the top of my head that has a dash that's not a shoulder button, so I think it's very much a genre thing. I had the same issues a described, partly because it's new and different, and partly because Metroid specifically has always been more of a vertical dodge or tank the hit series.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:27
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The dash button works literally the exact same as the jump button except it's a different face button and it moves you forward instead of up. You can prime it by holding it down if you wanna dash at a specific height during a jump, but you can also just not do that. If you're having a hard time dashing you should be struggling exactly as much to be using the double jump in combat.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:27
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Hmmm... Dread is actually more like Bayonetta than it is like Super Metroid when u think about it... makes a lot sense tbh
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Jan 6, 2022 18:49
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Sorry I wasn't really clear. I meant to imply industry standard across 2D games where there is: 1. A Jump 2. A Dash 3. A Fire/Attack button. This is because, if all of these map to face buttons and you need to press all of them at the same time, see for example, doing a dash jump and firing the X-Buster in Mega Man X, you need to use a claw grip to access all the game's movement. I take your point that Dash being a face button in 3D action is typical, but those games rarely require all three buttons to be used at the same time and where they do often Fire will be mapped to the shoulder instead. This isn't to comment on whether it's good or not. I'm not opening that jar of worms here. It's literally just to explain why some people are slow to take up the Flash Shift. Zulily Zoetrope posted:If you're having a hard time dashing you should be struggling exactly as much to be using the double jump in combat. Even if we assume commentary about industry standards is wrong though, pushing the same button twice is still easier than pushing two seperate buttons, as ridiculous as that might sound.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:56
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I didn't use the the Dash at all, straight up forgot I had it unless it was needed to open a door or I triggered it by accident If it had been a dedicated button I probably would have used it more. The person who posted about how the space jump is simply more intuitive is right. I'm sure it's intuitive if you practice it but I found it just clunky enough when I got it to ignore it. It probably made some fights more tedious for me but the game really doesn't need it to succeed
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Jan 6, 2022 19:02
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Febreeze posted:I didn't use the the Dash at all, straight up forgot I had it unless it was needed to open a door or I triggered it by accident I don't understand what you're saying here. Cause it has a dedicated button. The button doesn't even do anything until you get the ability. Natural 20 posted:This is because, if all of these map to face buttons and you need to press all of them at the same time, see for example, doing a dash jump and firing the X-Buster in Mega Man X, you need to use a claw grip to access all the game's movement. I just use my thumb to press Jump, Dash, and Shoot in all combinations (the hardest being dash and shoot with no jump, which is the one you rarely have to use). Lots of games even make it easier when you don't have to hold the dash button.
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Jan 7, 2022 03:13
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Just Andi Now posted:I don't understand what you're saying here. Cause it has a dedicated button. The button doesn't even do anything until you get the ability. Yeah I don't get this at all. Unless they didn't learn you can target/shoot mobs with missiles/storms while using Flash Shift
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Jan 7, 2022 03:18
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Actually, are people using the tip of their thumb to press every face button? Sometimes it feels that way the way people talk about how they use controllers. Same thing for the dpad with people who have trouble doing fighting game motions.
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Jan 7, 2022 03:23
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Just Andi Now posted:Actually, are people using the tip of their thumb to press every face button? Sometimes it feels that way the way people talk about how they use controllers. Same thing for the dpad with people who have trouble doing fighting game motions. For me I place my thumbs in the middle of the 4 buttons, and just turn it around.
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Jan 7, 2022 03:31
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Just Andi Now posted:Actually, are people using the tip of their thumb to press every face button? I use the tip of the thumb for XY (Nintendo layout) and extend my thumb and move it downwards to press AB with the middle of the thumb.
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Jan 7, 2022 04:43
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Yeah I use my thumb for button and my fingers for triggers
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Jan 7, 2022 04:48
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Bleck posted:I use the tip of the thumb for XY (Nintendo layout) and extend my thumb and move it downwards to press AB with the middle of the thumb. This pretty much describes how I play as well.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:20
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I’ve never used anything but thumbs for face buttons and don’t get why people think they need to claw grip.
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Jan 7, 2022 12:16
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The claw grip was something I used to do alot for Megaman X on snes. But when I'd play the collections later on, I couldn't figure out how I did it without it feeling awful. Then I realized controllers are huge now. I still prefer the claw. But the thumb for all face buttons method is better now. But I never use the dash move in Dread, because I don't have that muscle memory. I have "Just space jump that" instead. I've literally only used it for the doors that require it. But it'll easily get my ~5 hour time under 4 if I could get myself to learn to use it on bosses.
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Jan 7, 2022 15:59
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There is literally nothing in Megaman X so demanding that you can’t sacrifice a single frame of DPS to tap the dash button
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Jan 7, 2022 16:05
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Bust Rodd posted:There is literally nothing in Megaman X so demanding that you can’t sacrifice a single frame of DPS to tap the dash button Okay, what if I want to hold charge on the X Buster and Press Dash without jumping then? The default layout there is Y for the X Buster charge, the leftmost button and A for the dash, the rightmost button. That is really quite awkward to do without fat fingering the jump button on B. And that's not sacrificing a single frame of DPS, you're losing around 1-2 seconds of charge if you let go of the fire button to dash. (Also would be true in Hollow Knight if it didn't map dash to a shoulder and you wanted to dash and use a nail art) Mainly this is tangential. It should be sufficient to explain that dash being a face button in 2D is a shoulder often enough that at least some people will have more trouble with that than the face button alternative. It is simply put, a lot more comfortable to use something that has been a standard not just in most 2D games but across all of 2D Metroid over something you've just picked up.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:24
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In that example I guess I’m laying my thumb flat across the pad like I’m playing a barre chord
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Jan 7, 2022 16:29
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I guess I’ve been doing it wrong using my index fingertips all these years.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:30
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I have never used my index finger to touch a face button in probably my entire life
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Jan 7, 2022 16:34
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Natural 20 posted:Okay, what if I want to hold charge on the X Buster and Press Dash without jumping then? Then you double-tap the d-pad to dash instead?
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Jan 7, 2022 16:45
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I guess I've never thought about it but I tend to keep my thumb over the most used two buttons, so it was always over the the Y and B, jump and shoot I played it entirely on the pro controller because the regular switch controller makes my hand cramp from being too small, so pressing a or x required more foresight instead of reflex, and I got through the game just fine that way
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Jan 7, 2022 17:56
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Like others mentioned, the MMX thing for me was because I'd always hold the charge. And double tapping kinda sucks, is a little slower, and you can't do it of walls. So I just got the claw habit mostly from boss fights. Plus, that series, like Metroid, has a really great sense of speed once you get it going. So the claw just lets the movement flow better to me.  Bust Rodd posted:In that example I guess I’m laying my thumb flat across the pad like I’m playing a barre chord Please don't use your thumb for guitar. It'll give you problems in the long run. I was the one friend that had the teacher that made me learn the "classically trained" method. And now all my friends that used their thumbs because, "That's how Hendrix did it" have weird issues developing when they play. Not trying to be a weirdo about it. I just have a bad habbit of mentioning it when the topic comes up. Anyway, sorry for the derail.
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Jan 7, 2022 18:50
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The pro move for MMX is to go into the settings and remap dash to R. That way you can hold charge/shoot + jump with thumb, and dash with index finger. Allows you to easily do all 3 at once. Also makes it easier to hit dash + jump at the same time when wall climbing.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:33
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Natural 20 posted:Okay, what if I want to hold charge on the X Buster and Press Dash without jumping then? yeah the Megaman Zero games, which are largely an evolution of the X games, put dash on one the left shoulder button and I definitely usually remap dash to that on the X games too. That said, I don't think the right face button dash is the awkward part of controls in metroid dread, because you're usually not doing it while you need to hold a charge (in boss fights you don't want to be charging as much as spamming missiles or storm missiles, or else rapid-firing beams, none of which require *holding* the left face button). And the reason it's so useful is that it's the quickest way to switch which side of the enemy you're on by just jumping to above their head height and flashing over - especially useful for Golzuna when it sets up the big bomb-matrix, where you don't have much overhead space either. That said I still had a hard time with Escue because you have to time it really well to not get tagged by errant missiles and you really want to avoid the electro bomb hitting the floor, and if it does, being on the floor when it goes off.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:45
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None of y'all just sit your thumb between all four buttons and rock it around as necessary? I have no problem pressing any combination of the buttons with just my thumb.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:23
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Mr. Nice! posted:None of y'all just sit your thumb between all four buttons and rock it around as necessary? I have no problem pressing any combination of the buttons with just my thumb. I hadn't heard of that and can't get the feel of it on a quick try. I was raised on SNES that is specifically designed for your fingers to be on Y and B or X and A by having the X and Y buttons concave (for the pad of your thumb) and the A and B buttons convex (for , if you're a small-hand kid, the first segment of your thumb, or if you're bigger somewhere around the joint).
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Jan 7, 2022 21:28
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I don't really play that way either except when I need to hit a bunch of buttons at once. I just picked up the controller and that was how I solved the question of needing to hit buttons while holding others with just the thumb. As I fiddled with it more, it was pretty good just in general. I usually hit all the buttons with the tip of my right thumb for single tapping.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:39
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