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I'm looking for something incredibly dumb and specific, there's a screenshot from coverage (back when that was a thing) where Marshall, LSV and I think EFro are lined up and it looks like a de-evolution progress chart because Marshall is immaculate in a well-fitting suit, LSV looks fine, and EFro looks completely rumpled and his jacket doesn't fit at all. Does anyone know the photo I'm talking about?
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Jan 7, 2022 04:02
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Entropic posted:I'm looking for something incredibly dumb and specific, there's a screenshot from coverage (back when that was a thing) where Marshall, LSV and I think EFro are lined up and it looks like a de-evolution progress chart because Marshall is immaculate in a well-fitting suit, LSV looks fine, and EFro looks completely rumpled and his jacket doesn't fit at all. Does anyone know the photo I'm talking about? I remember it vividly but also can't find it.
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Jan 7, 2022 04:31
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Salvor_Hardin posted:I remember it vividly but also can't find it. Same.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:54
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Entropic posted:I'm looking for something incredibly dumb and specific, there's a screenshot from coverage (back when that was a thing) where Marshall, LSV and I think EFro are lined up and it looks like a de-evolution progress chart because Marshall is immaculate in a well-fitting suit, LSV looks fine, and EFro looks completely rumpled and his jacket doesn't fit at all. Does anyone know the photo I'm talking about? I gotcha. It is a well dressed Marshall, normal Ian Duke, then a rumpled Efro - Pro Tour Magic Origins during the top 8 when they’re talking about the player of the year race. The video of it is actually pretty amusing since efro just has been knocked out of the top slot for player of the year so it’s kinda a live reaction to it https://youtu.be/MMQXfegqGEk?t=17616 And the image https://m.imgur.com/a/s0YF5Xj
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Jan 7, 2022 05:56
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Jan 7, 2022 14:44
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lol that’s the exact image I was looking for, thanks. I don’t know why I misremembered it as being LSV in the middle.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:14
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I still enjoy the fact he publicly shamed someone for not conceding to him while also dodging a ban for the behavior. “Concede equity” indeed.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:19
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Sickening posted:I still enjoy the fact he publicly shamed someone for not conceding to him while also dodging a ban for the behavior. “Concede equity” indeed. https://strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/ truly incredible poo poo
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Jan 7, 2022 16:31
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ShaneB posted:https://strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/ quote:I absolutely have no expectation of someone conceding to me. Everyone can do what’s best for them. For many people, conceding is actually what’s best for them. It builds up good will where someone will go far out of their way to help you in the future. By attempting to dream crush, you can guarantee the opposite will happen. Players may go out of their way to try to dream crush you, knowing you will be doing it to them if the situation arises. For many fans of the game, they love this prospect since it’s the purest form of a Magic tournament where all results are earned on the battlefield. Realistically speaking, this can never actually happen. I don’t care enough about the competition to eliminate a good friend in a spot where I don’t need to and asking me to do so is just silly. Lmao
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Jan 7, 2022 16:34
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"I absolutely have no expectation of someone conceding to me" Turns out that was a lie!
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Jan 7, 2022 16:49
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"it's best for you if you concede right here" sounds mildly threatening lol
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Jan 7, 2022 16:50
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I am NOT mad but I will NEVER forget this.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:11
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I don't see how you square magic as a competitive spectator game and this "I scratch your back" poo poo. "The Browns have chosen not to take the field against the Packers, as they can only play spoiler to their playoff wildcard slot with nothing to gain for themselves and wouldn't want to DrEaM CrUsH."
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Jan 7, 2022 17:15
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also the fun part that if you get a free concede and get in then someone else didn't get in. it could happen to you too
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Jan 7, 2022 17:16
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"I dreamcrushed Eric Froehlich and he got mad on the internet" is a great story to have in your quiver
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Jan 7, 2022 17:28
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considering the dude plays poker now makes me very suspicious of him soft playing w/ his friends in tournaments... wtf is this "concede because i'm well-known and i may return the favor" bullshit?
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Jan 7, 2022 17:30
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Strong Sauce posted:considering the dude plays poker now makes me very suspicious of him soft playing w/ his friends in tournaments... wtf is this "concede because i'm well-known and i may return the favor" bullshit? It was magics version of the good ol boys club. collusion was and probably still is a big part of high level magic.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:33
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I have no idea what the line between collusion and sportsmanship is in a card game or a sport, but happily I am terrible at both so it won’t affect me
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Jan 7, 2022 18:28
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I'm not mad, look at this 800 word essay I wrote about how not mad I am
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Jan 7, 2022 18:39
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Sickening posted:I still enjoy the fact he publicly shamed someone for not conceding to him while also dodging a ban for the behavior. “Concede equity” indeed. ShaneB posted:https://strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/ this guy sounds like a bond villain
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Jan 7, 2022 19:00
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If you concede to me I promise to pay you in exposure
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Jan 7, 2022 19:37
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vegetables posted:I have no idea what the line between collusion and sportsmanship is in a card game or a sport, but happily I am terrible at both so it won’t affect me Im just a person on the internet, but i feel like if a coach of one football team went to the other and said "purposefully lose and i'll return the favor one day" that would be a scandal of some sort
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Jan 7, 2022 19:37
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ilmucche posted:"it's best for you if you concede right here" sounds mildly threatening lol 
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Jan 7, 2022 20:01
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mandatory lesbian posted:Im just a person on the internet, but i feel like if a coach of one football team went to the other and said "purposefully lose and i'll return the favor one day" that would be a scandal of some sort Yes it would be. Pro sports teams tactically choose to not try their hardest to win at certain points during a season, like when they want to ensure their best players are rested or will absolutely not be injured when the team has made the playoffs but still has some regular season games left, or a team knows they aren't making the playoffs and begin to play their younger players with greater frequency to get them more experience and possibly get them a higher draft pick, but no team or coach would expect that this losing would bank them a favor of any kind with other teams. It's shady BS in MtG as well.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:06
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The biggest thing about competitive magic that is a black box to me is people conceding matches. I know there are certain normal-sounding behaviors that aren't allowed, and the distinction between those behaviors and what is allowed is in how you phrase stuff sometimes. When I started, my very first official event was a Scars of Mirrodin pre-release, and I made it to top 2. I wanted to split the prizes for first and second evenly and was willing to still play if the other guy wanted to, but I guess that was explicitly disallowed by the rules. Every time I've tried to learn the rules around that stuff my eyes glaze over in a way that doesn't happen when I read about layers or whatever. e: see also the Sumo scandal around secure fighters losing to guys that need one more win to be secure.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:12
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Owlbear Camus posted:I don't see how you square magic as a competitive spectator game and this "I scratch your back" poo poo. Also yes teams rest their starters give reps to rookies when the season is out of reach
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Jan 7, 2022 20:14
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AngryBooch posted:Yes it would be. Pro sports teams tactically choose to not try their hardest to win at certain points during a season, like when they want to ensure their best players are rested or will absolutely not be injured when the team has made the playoffs but still has some regular season games left, or a team knows they aren't making the playoffs and begin to play their younger players with greater frequency to get them more experience and possibly get them a higher draft pick, but no team or coach would expect that this losing would bank them a favor of any kind with other teams. It's shady BS in MtG as well. Always remember Sabres fans cheering their losses as the tried to fail their way to Jack eichel
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Jan 7, 2022 20:27
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I was trying to tee someone up for a Goldfinger joke but this is even better lol
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Jan 7, 2022 20:53
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mandatory lesbian posted:Im just a person on the internet, but i feel like if a coach of one football team went to the other and said "purposefully lose and i'll return the favor one day" that would be a scandal of some sort it happened it sumo wrestling and was indeed a big scandal
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Jan 7, 2022 20:59
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When you put two entities in a competition where their incentives are not equal, you're going to end up with some sketchy results. I read some book about this a long time time ago, it was basically Freakonomics but just about sports, had a lot of of it examples of this sort of thing. Stuff like the sumo scandal, points shaving, etc. I forget the name, but I'll see if I can find it over the weekend.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:13
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It will always be a factor when there are different incentives for the two people in match. If I'm already qualified and you need to win the match to qualify, you are highly incentivized to get me to concede the match. It happens all over. My buddy did it for Melissa Detora at a PT because he wasn't going to go to the next one and giving her the match bumped her to gold for the year. This is entirely separate from the intentional drawing that happens in the final few rounds.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:29
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HootTheOwl posted:Also yes teams rest their starters give reps to rookies when the season is out of reach Sure, but they still take the field and play the game, and it would be a headline-making scandal if they just forfeited hoping to build up goodwill so someone would do the same for them in a future season.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:37
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AngryBooch posted:Yes it would be. Pro sports teams tactically choose to not try their hardest to win at certain points during a season, like when they want to ensure their best players are rested or will absolutely not be injured when the team has made the playoffs but still has some regular season games left, or a team knows they aren't making the playoffs and begin to play their younger players with greater frequency to get them more experience and possibly get them a higher draft pick, but no team or coach would expect that this losing would bank them a favor of any kind with other teams. It's shady BS in MtG as well. Yeah there's a few things going on with pro football that make it not a great comparison. For one, every player on a losing team is still building a resume through play that may land them a spot on a better team when their current contract runs out (or if they can get traded). That's also true of coaching staff, and coaches are judged in part on their win/loss record. There's undoubtedly coaches who scraped by not being fired by turning in a 3-13 season instead of a 0-16 season. When the media narrative is "the players have given up on Coach" that's not great for Coach's career. There have always been accusations of intentionally tanking for draft position, though. It's almost always impossible to prove. A new coach with a rebuilding team who is making questionable play calls, starting questionable players, etc. may be accused of tanking, but may reasonably argue they're experimenting, trying to find plays and player combinations that will work, giving players more on-field time just to improve skills, etc. For example I remember a couple years ago the Dolphins were roundly considered to be tanking for a 1st overall pick... and then they won some late season games and that accusation sort of vaporized. All that said: lots of teams with secured playoff spots sit their starters in the last game of the season, and that's considered reasonable. A meaningless game that could let you rest your best guys for the actual important playoff match coming up next week is not one where you really want to risk your star quarterback. Is that really in the spirit of competition, to maybe give some marginal team a win they need to scrape into the playoffs? Ehh. Not enough for anyone to seriously contemplate rules against it. Teams are supposed to manage their rosters and players not just for each match, but for a whole season, and for future seasons. It'd probably be impossible to make rules for it anyway, because any team could claim a player is a bit banged up and can't play that week and who is going to prove otherwise, since all football players are constantly a bit banged up? On that note, I'm not sure what you could do to totally eliminate collusion in Magic tournament play? Couldn't a player reasonably say "I looked at my cards and draws and the table state and decided I probably wasn't going to win" and even if you disagree, they could still say "I was confused and made a play error, I thought I saw X card in my hand but it was really Y" or whatever. If someone has a side-arrangement for money or something, and you caught them flagrantly making that arrangement, sure you could penalize it. I doubt tournament officials have the power and reach to seriously monitor for that, since it's so trivial to have private conversations anyway.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:44
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Arena now has it's own quirky MTGO style bug https://twitter.com/Wizards_Help/status/1479558429513560068?s=20 Once again I am asking, how does something like this even happen?
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Jan 7, 2022 22:08
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Never change, Wizards.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:12
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Cactrot posted:Once again I am asking, how does something like this even happen? Seems clear that a Dracula Island and a regular Island are separate entities, like in MTGO, rather than the same entity with different appearance / decorations. Dracula lands are probably missing some tag that gets checked to determine if a sideboard is valid as the client enters sideboarding.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:15
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That really *puts on Blade shades* sucks
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Jan 7, 2022 22:15
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Leperflesh posted:On that note, I'm not sure what you could do to totally eliminate collusion in Magic tournament play? I mean the same thing could certainly work in Magic as your example of what keeps people from tanking in Football. If Elo actually mattered in Magic and every 100 Elo points gave scaling rewards at the end of every year, and tournaments worked such that events with very high stakes top 8s rewarded/penalized far more Elo for winning/losing, then people would have to care way more about winning every single game for their own personal benefit.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:12
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Ultima66 posted:I mean the same thing could certainly work in Magic as your example of what keeps people from tanking in Football. If Elo actually mattered in Magic and every 100 Elo points gave scaling rewards at the end of every year, and tournaments worked such that events with very high stakes top 8s rewarded/penalized far more Elo for winning/losing, then people would have to care way more about winning every single game for their own personal benefit. Elo rating used to matter for Player Rewards, and the end result was people getting their rating over certain thresholds and then just quitting for the month/season.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:18
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Cactrot posted:Arena now has it's own quirky MTGO style bug One day they'll figure out how to greenuce the number of bugs in their development process.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:18
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