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Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

Ibblebibble posted:

Can't be that bad considering the world first clear group had a BLM.

cool, this is not a helpful thing at all


ImpAtom posted:

The thing is that you actually have a ton of insta-movements. Two casts of Triplecast, two casts of Sharpcast which give you insta-casts of Fire 3 from Paradox or Thunder from either Thunder, Umbral Paradox, Swiftcast, Foul/Xeno x2, an instant teleport to target of your choice AND an instant teleport back to laylines. You are insanely mobile as long as you have all the tools and use them wisely. And even at the absolute *worst* you can still cast Fire 1 for a refresh even if it's technically suboptimal. (Also Scathe but lol.)

BLM is really well designed because it looks like an immobile turret at first blush but pretty much every new move you get adds more mobility to the class. You do need to know the fights well enough to know when it is safe to Leyline or when you should be blowing your Triplecast for optimal damage output but honestly it's more mobile than Red Mage.

I am not at 90, and even knowing the fights doesn't seem to be helping. I'm not dying but I'm tanking my damage because any time I move I have to break my rotation and start over again.

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Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".



Awesome! posted:

i like to level all the classes that share armor at once so i can get to the best part of leveling: throwing out the leveling gear

This is the primary reason to level crafting: all gear is ephemeral and can be recreated

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Leraika posted:

cool, this is not a helpful thing at all

Glad to be of service :eng101:

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Leraika posted:

cool, this is not a helpful thing at all

I am not at 90, and even knowing the fights doesn't seem to be helping. I'm not dying but I'm tanking my damage because any time I move I have to break my rotation and start over again.

What level are you at? It gets easier for sure.

CJ
Jul 3, 2007

Asbungold
Black Mage's entire gimmick is to have the highest damage but it's hard to reach that potential until you master the fight based on positioning. If you don't enjoy t hat type of gameplay you should really switch classes.

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

CJ posted:

Black Mage's entire gimmick is to have the highest damage but it's hard to reach that potential until you master the fight based on positioning. If you don't enjoy t hat type of gameplay you should really switch classes.

It's always funny looking at those DPS charts and seeing that the worst black mage has lower damage than the worst dancer.

admanb
Jun 18, 2014

Leraika posted:

cool, this is not a helpful thing at all

I am not at 90, and even knowing the fights doesn't seem to be helping. I'm not dying but I'm tanking my damage because any time I move I have to break my rotation and start over again.

if you like being a caster but don't enjoy BLM, may I recommend Red Mage? You still hardcast, but they're much faster and every other cast is instant.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

admanb posted:

if you like being a caster but don't enjoy BLM, may I recommend Red Mage? You still hardcast, but they're much faster and every other cast is instant.

I'm a summoner/healer main through and through, but I'm also a completionist. I'm looking very much forward to not touching BLM again until next expansion the second it hits 90.


Begemot posted:

It's always funny looking at those DPS charts and seeing that the worst black mage has lower damage than the worst dancer.

Yeah, that's at the point where I am now. The difference between 'I know this fight' and 'I don't know this fight' is significant, but it's also not enough to actually make me do appreciable damage, it feels like.


Ibblebibble posted:

Glad to be of service :eng101:

:hfive:


ImpAtom posted:

What level are you at? It gets easier for sure.

85 now.

Leraika fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 8, 2022

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

Awesome! posted:

i like to level all the classes that share armor at once so i can get to the best part of leveling: throwing out the leveling gear

I do the same. Started with str jobs and just wrapped up tanks a couple days ago. Onwards to magical dps next!

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

DRK has felt like crap ever since they completely changed how it played after HW. Hitting Dark Arts was busy work but it was satisfying busywork, and having constant MP drain with Darkside up and having to make sure you don't tip too low was fun, even if it was pretty easy. The redesign never felt very good and nothing changed in SHB or EW to improve it. IMO at least.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Gyro Zeppeli posted:

A lot of the "DRK is absolutely unplayably bad" hysteria came from people noting that they have slightly less survivability in 4-man content compared to WAR, who basically everyone agrees is already invincible as long as the healer isn't asleep on their keyboard.

I think I could probably solo all or almost all dungeon bosses in the game as WAR. I soloed the big cheese from 25% a little while ago (the healer died at 70%)

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


I wonder if you could get Dark Knight feeling weighty and interesting by giving it a 3 second base GCD. In a similar way that Monk has 2 second default GCD, and then giving it oGCD’s that modify GCDs similar to Dark Arts but using the bigger timing window to make the entire thing feel slow, purposeful and powerful.

You could even put health costs on oGCDs and health gains on GCDs. Something like spend 5% current health but next GCD drains 15% of your max health from your target. Or pay health to shield an ally/yourself.

Maybe I’m just too focused on Dark Knight reminding me of WoW Desth Knight tanking. Which is all about self healing and as such is scary for healers but very strong at keeping itself going.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 8, 2022

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

speaking as someone who doesn't care whether the class is complicated or w/e and someone who has played DRK since HW, I will say I also think it sucks right now for the reason someone else mentioned earlier - it's really boring and it doesn't have enough cool looking abilities. like for PLD you might say the visual "peak" of the rotation (the thing that looks the coolest to do) is the Confiteor combo. For GNB it's Gnashing Fang/Double Down. For WAR it's Primal Rend (I think - I haven't levelled my WAR above 80 yet). DRK I feel like doesn't have anything that good. Shadowbringer is okay, and Bloodspiller is fine, but the most exciting thing you can do is hit Delirium and then you get to...press Bloodspiller five times in a row. It's boring

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011
dark's the only tank class i've played and it kicks rear end. it's probably a lot more annoying if you only play it casually, since you can gently caress up mana usage and be unable to cast TBN when you need to. but once you've practiced it it's pretty great

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


primal rend really is the best button

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
It's also a lot more annoying when you've played any other tank to compare it with.

Zeruel
Mar 27, 2010

Alert: bad post spotted.
how do console players 'mouse over' status buffs/debuffs? or tell what they do at all, without l1+r3 and slooowly moving the cursor up to it?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Zeruel posted:

how do console players 'mouse over' status buffs/debuffs? or tell what they do at all, without l1+r3 and slooowly moving the cursor up to it?

you can press select to cycle through all the clickable stuff on the screen, including buffs/debuffs

realistically though, you just have a usb moue plugged in and use it every so often for the handful of things that are really annoying to do on controller

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
Dark has two problems that I see as the most relevant when comparing it to other tanks.

The previous expansions were balanced around the short duration defensives being less powerful than TBN and TBN as an outlier was the strongest one. The damage reduction from Sheltron/Raw Intuition/Heart of Stone just didn't compare to what was effectively a 25% heal (incidentally this also meant that Nascent Flash was better than RI in like 99% of situations for WAR even when you don't need to heal anyone else, the heal is just that good). This has flip flopped now. All the short duration defensives have had a heal attached to them while TBN didn't get anything and DRK got Oblation instead. So now TBN/Oblation is the outlier for the balance but it's on the opposite side of being weaker rather than stronger.

Furthermore, one of the advantages TBN has in its lower cooldown rarely ever matters because with TBN you are punished by losing DPS for using it inefficiently while the other tanks still get the heal benefit at least. It is very rare that you can use TBN on CD and have it pop every single time outside of trash mob big pulls. But this is definitely one of the unique parts of DRK in that if you are okay with being inefficient you can spam the shield every 15 seconds. To that end, I think reducing Oblation's charge CD to 30-40 seconds would be a reasonable exchange and all that DRK would need to put it in line with the other tanks defensively. WAR is the obvious standout here being able to literally solo bosses with its self healing.

The other problem is that Blood Weapon is still a 10 second buff and not a stack system. This is all sorts of dumb especially considering that several of DRK's GCDs are actually spells instead of weaponskills and thus all the skill speed stacking in the world will still not allow you to get 5GCDs during the window with the AoE combo and that Delirium got changed to a stack system anyway. And for some reason Blood Weapon's buff fading doesn't seem to snapshot GCDs as generously as old Delirium or Inner Release did anyway making it a more difficult 10 second buff for 5GCDs for some unknown reason.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Badger of Basra posted:

speaking as someone who doesn't care whether the class is complicated or w/e and someone who has played DRK since HW, I will say I also think it sucks right now for the reason someone else mentioned earlier - it's really boring and it doesn't have enough cool looking abilities. like for PLD you might say the visual "peak" of the rotation (the thing that looks the coolest to do) is the Confiteor combo. For GNB it's Gnashing Fang/Double Down. For WAR it's Primal Rend (I think - I haven't levelled my WAR above 80 yet). DRK I feel like doesn't have anything that good. Shadowbringer is okay, and Bloodspiller is fine, but the most exciting thing you can do is hit Delirium and then you get to...press Bloodspiller five times in a row. It's boring

Yes, this is exactly the problem. I don't care if the class is supposedly doing the most damage when all my hits look and feel weak, so I don't feel like I'm doing except pushing buttons because I have nothing better to do. None of their skills feel fun to use except TBN.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
for what it's worth, paladin is also able to solo dungeon bosses, and can often keep one or both dps alive, too, if they don't fail mechanics. Clemency doesn't really factor into paladin's kit when everything is going right, though, unlike bloodwhetting

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


The big thing for me is that drk is just a discount warrior. Your mana bar is just a rage bar that starts full instead of the rage bar that starts empty. It no longer feels like you use your mana on spells, juggling it for different affects, having to keep it for your aoe. Now it's just the bar that lets you do ogcd damage. It would be nice to have actual spells again, to have multiple combos, and to not just have special mechanics ripped from war.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I know it's never going to happen, but I'd love to have a version of syncing that gives you your class as it existed in that expansion

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you
While we're at it, bring back the Power Slash animation

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


isk posted:

While we're at it, bring back the Power Slash animation

:hmmyes: Also Butcher's Block. Replace Storm's Path that animation sucks.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011
any weapon animation that gets removed should be kept around as job-specific emotes. let me ring of thorns you cowards

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

isk posted:

While we're at it, bring back the Power Slash animation

many people are saying

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

cheetah7071 posted:

for what it's worth, paladin is also able to solo dungeon bosses, and can often keep one or both dps alive, too, if they don't fail mechanics. Clemency doesn't really factor into paladin's kit when everything is going right, though, unlike bloodwhetting

To be fair the changes to Paladin mean that Clemancy can be used as a defensive cooldown for only a singe GCD loss instead of a complete rotation gently caress which makes it a lot more viable to use in a push.

Venuz Patrol posted:

any weapon animation that gets removed should be kept around as job-specific emotes. let me ring of thorns you cowards

They said a loooong time ago they were looking at special reward emotes for different jobs but I guess they gave up on that.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Summoner and Scholar get to read a book anytime they want :smug:

limp dick calvin
Sep 1, 2006

Strepitoso. Vedete? Una meraviglia.

Zeruel posted:

how do console players 'mouse over' status buffs/debuffs? or tell what they do at all, without l1+r3 and slooowly moving the cursor up to it?

You can use the PS5 touch pad to move the virtual mouse over.

Or you can remain curious like I'm sure other console players.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

FuturePastNow posted:

Summoner and Scholar get to read a book anytime they want :smug:

So does anyone with /read.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

cheetah7071 posted:

I know it's never going to happen, but I'd love to have a version of syncing that gives you your class as it existed in that expansion

A way to bring fracture back? Sign me the gently caress up.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

cheetah7071 posted:

I know it's never going to happen, but I'd love to have a version of syncing that gives you your class as it existed in that expansion

NIGHTMARE

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
there's a fairly simple addon that lets you do animation swaps, even with now-gone animations, if you really want to do Power Slash or even stuff like Haymaker. or if you want to get goofy and replace Rampart with Shadowskin

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013



The return of the king.

I bought the pig mount

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

A friend of mine had a good description today about when EX mechanics started clicking for him last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNLdw9CUgE

TopHatGenius
Oct 3, 2008

something feels
different

Hot Rope Guy

Ibblebibble posted:



The return of the king.

I bought the pig mount

Congratulations!

So P3S had been the most hype savage stuff I've done in a long time. That bird be mean!

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Zeruel posted:

how do console players 'mouse over' status buffs/debuffs? or tell what they do at all, without l1+r3 and slooowly moving the cursor up to it?

Use the controller touchpad to slowly move the cursor over stuff, or in my case just not bother and hope I don't miss anything important

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010

Sakurazuka posted:

Use the controller touchpad to slowly move the cursor over stuff, or in my case just not bother and hope I don't miss anything important

Knowledge brings pain


So does levelling crafting again, my poor inventory

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Onean
Feb 11, 2010

Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.
If anyone has ever been interested in giving the Rival Wings PvP mode a go but haven't due to queue times, the PST evening for this weekend is a great time to do so. The Revival Discord (Discord link) are putting on events for the EU and American data centers. I'm not sure on the EU times, but the American times all start at 5 PM PST today and tomorrow and will run until people stop queuing.

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